Difference between revisions of "FixTheSolarCharmTrees/BulwarkStance"

Revision as of 14:01, 31 August 2005

Official Charm

Bulwark Stance</b>

<b>Cost: 5 motes
Duration: Until next action
Type: Simple
Min. Melee: 3
Min. Essence: 1
Prereqs: Dipping Swallow Defense

The character now has the ability to use defensive Essence flows to gain perfect form and poise. Until her next action, the character may use her full Dexterity + Melee dice pool to parry any attack she is aware of, so long as the attack has a physical component and is not specifically noted as being impossible to block.

Thinker's version

Bulwark Stance</b>

<b>Cost: 10 motes
Duration: One Scene
Type: Simple
Min. Melee: 3
Min. Essence: 1
Prereqs: Dipping Swallow Defense

Assuming a powerful defensive stance, the character becomes the Bulwark of blocking and parrying for the rest of the scene. While this Charm is in effect they may add a number of automatic successes to any parry roll made with a weapon equal to their Essence score. These can even be Brawl or Martial Arts parries so long as they are not bare handed. These successes are added after the character splits his dice pool and are fully compatible with Charm created parries, such as those created by Dipping Swallow Defense.

Ikselam's version

Identical to the printed version, but Reflexive instead of Simple. Change Fivefold Bulwark Stance to Simple.

DaveFayram's version

Identical as printed, but the character may choose to parry ANY attack made within 2xHer Essence in yards, instantly leaping to intercept.

Kraken's Version

Change type to reflexive and duration to instant, in a similar manner to the pinnacle Mantis style charm. i.e. lasts for a turn but can be comboed. Costs would probably need to be increased slightly for this.

OnyxChasm's version

Change cost to three motes, change dice pool to "full parry pool, including weapon and item bonuses, specialities, and so on".

GoldenH's version

Change to reflexive, and it is a dice adder that adds Dex + Melee dice to any parry that turn, not specialty or defense score. Still has a duration of one turn and cannot be comboed.

Blaque's version

I would just make the Charm Instant and Reflexive. It would retain the clause of until next action, meaning that the moment you stop parrying, you loose the effects. But as long as it is up, you get full parries against everything. The advantage to this version is that its comboable, giving it that edge to Fivefold Bulwark Stance. It also doesn't cost Wllpower, so the price allows it to be generally more desirable.

Its just easier way to do it really. None of the Charm text has to change, or anything. Just change the duration and well, it becomes gravey IMHO.

Stuff.

AlecAustin's version

I've had on my page for a while, as I didn't realize that this page was here.

Bulwark Stance</b>

<b>Cost: 5 motes
Duration: Until next action
Type: Simple
Min. Ability: 3
Min Essence: 2
Prereqs: Dipping Swallow Defense

Until her next action, the character may parry any physical attack she is aware of using her full Dexterity + Melee pool. If she rolls more successes than are needed to parry a hand-to-hand attack, any excess parry successes immediately become successes in a counterattack against that opponent.

Quendalon's version

Identical to the printed version, but with a Duration of Instant (so that it can be Comboed), and Reflexive instead of Simple. Change Fivefold Bulwark Stance to Simple.

FlowsLikeBits's version

Unfortunaly, this is almost the same as Quendalon's and Blauque's version. Change type to Reflexive, Duration to Instant and cost to (4 motes or 6 motes) Text: For 4 motes, the charachter may parry all attacks against them with their full Dex+Melee pool. For 6 motes, they may parry all attacks against them with their full Dex+Melee pool with a die bonus dice equal their Dex+Melee. This version lasts until their next action and is subject to the normal limits for charms that add dice(i.e. it can't be helped by them). This makes it useful in combo's gives it utility as a weak persistant. You could theoretically stunt back the cost. Also,it allows you to do something other than parry. (If all you can do is parry, it doesn't seem that usefull to me). The 6 mote version makes it usefull even with 5BS, as it's kinda like a buffed up Full Parry.

szilard's version

As the printed version, but change the type to Reflexive and the Duration to "special," defined as until the character's next dice action or movement of more than Essence in yards.

Vote Tally

Official version

1. Grandmasta

thinker's version

1. thinker
2. Delta_I
3. Voidstate
4. Lipperman

ikselam's version

1. ikselam
2. CorlanDashiva
3. Killed
4. Shoggoth
5. willows
6. Morpheus
7. Moxiane
8. Mapache
9. Raindoll (1/2)

Kraken's version

1. Kraken
2. David.

OnyxChasm's version

1. OnyxChasm
2. Raindoll (1/2)

Blaque's Version

1. Blaque
2. MetalFatigue
3. SilverMeerKat
4. BrokenShade
5. Domon
6. Toram
7. Darloth
8. GregLink

AlecAustin's Version

1. AlecAustin

Quendalon's Version

1. Quendalon

FlowsLikeBits's Version

1. FlowsLikeBits

szilard's version

1. szilard

Comments

While Thinker's version is probably too powerful, I think that having no reflexive persistants is bad for the Solars, so Thinker's gets my vote. --Delta_I

I've been using ikselam's proposed changes in my game for a while now, and it seems to work fine. - Quendalon

Ikselam's version looks reasonable to me, Thinker's looks a lot more powerful than I feel was intended - CorlanDashiva

I like Kraken's solution, personally, though I'd actually leave the duration as it is, make the type Reflexive, and include an explicit note in the Charm text that it may be placed in a Combo in spite of its non-instant duration. -David.

Thanks David, I much prefer your changes to wording and type of charm. Just proves you shouldn't write charms before you've had your first meal of the day ;) - Kraken

I think the original charm's theme is actually really cool: you sacrifice your attack in exchange for the ability to defend yourself from every attack launched against you. I use it by having a character with the highest initiative I can get (he uses Snake Form and a Daiklaive), and when I get initiative I use Bulwark Stance and try to pin my opponent somewhere, or get between them and the archer/mage I'm defending. Then, on the next turn, I delay my action until everyone else has gone (because until I act, Bulwark Stance remains in effect), and then unload on the most vulnerable opponent I can get to, using whatever supermove I think is appropriate. The advantage of Bulwark Stance is that, using it like I do, it gives you huge blocking power on the same turn as you unload a massive attack. My only objection to it is that it costs too much essence to use more than once or twice in a combat, and it becomes completely redundant once you have Fivefold Bulwark Stance. -- OnyxChasm

Onyx Chasm, that is probably the way it was meant to be used, and I never saw it. ^_^ Fascinating ... thank you! By the way, I do believe it already does give specialities and weapon bonuses to the parry (it says the full Dexterity + Melee pool, which I believe works the same way as Dipping Swallow Defence and Fivefold Bulwark Stance). ^_^ -- BrokenShade

I put my version up for simplicity really. Some of the changes I think are too big. Though, if anything gets debated to death Charmwise, it'll probably be this one. Stuff. -- Blaque

Tranferred a copy of my revision of the charm onto the page; it may be a bit much, but it remains useful after you have Fivefold Bulkwark Stance, and doesn't require changing other charms. --AlecAustin

I think a lot of these variations lose sight of what the Charm was intended to do, in an effort to improve it. Alternate Prerequisites, people! Change the tree, not the Charm. - willows

Willows, I think that is part of the fun. Anyone can suggest any kind of change, it just won't get any votes if people don't like it. ^_^ In a sense, this is brainstorming! -- BrokenShade

Ikselam's one is the one I'll be using as soon as my players get to it - as written BS will never be used once you get 5FBS. - Moxiane

It's worse than that, Moxiane--Bulwark Stance isn't useful even if you don't have Fivefold Bulwark Stance. I have no huge objection to speedbumps, but they should at least be useful if you don't have the more powerful Charm yet. --MetalFatigue

I wouldn't say it's completely useless (vide OnyxChasm's answer above), but I agree that it's woefully underpowered. I like Blaque's version. - SilverMeerKat

Okay, I missed OnyxChasm's comment somehow. The fact that the Charm has a use makes me think about changing my vote. (Think about; not do.) --MetalFatigue

Blaque's version actually seems rather interesting. It blocks multiple actions, can be comboed, and still allows an attack late in the same turn. And, it doesn't require a change to FFBS. I like this even more than Ikselam's. ^_^ -- BrokenShade

I would not allow the trick OnyxChasm describes above. IMHO, when a charm lasts "Until your next action", it ends when your initiative comes up. If you want to continue to benefit from it, you need to put it up again. A high initiative is already powerful enough. - Toram

Toram, its a cute trick. The Charm still only lasts until your next initiative action ... the trick is essentially to "roll" a really bad initiative, and that is mechanically done by delaying your initiative action. ^_^ -- BrokenShade

I just had a new idea, and posted a rough draft from work. I'll probably have to tweak my version after I get the chance to look at the book. - Quendalon

I had difficulty deciding between Ikselam's and Blaque's, but I finally went for Blaque's because I believe that solars -should- be powerful, and this makes it always useful after FFBS, not just if you get caught off-guard. However, I think I might house rule in general that 'until next action' charm duration can be comboed fine, as this gives a little more scope, but not too much. Anyway, ramble aside, I hope I don't overwrite your change Quendalon, just noticed you were editing at the same time I was. (And I really need to learn to capitalise my 'I's... had to change them all afterwards.)\\

-- Darloth

OnyxChasm: very cool way to use Bulwark Stance. As for explicitly writing "full parry pool," I'm fairly certain that that's currently implied. (I guess it couldn't hurt to make it explicit... except maybe it might make people confused when they read charms whose wording isn't so explicit. :P) Anyway, I think that reducing the cost to 3 motes is a good idea, and so is making the charm reflexive. But not both. (So I'll have to split my vote.)\\ - Raindoll

If you can't support either version, why not make a version of your own and give it your full vote? Others might follow suit. - Quendalon

You misunderstand me: I think they're both good ideas, and I would fully support either if the other didn't exist. - Raindoll

We seem to have a lot of very similar variants here; Ikselam, Kraken, Blaque, and Quendalon's versions look nearly the same. Any chance of consolidation? I'd like to suggest that we not propose changes to other charms (like FFBS) here, since that's got the potential to double the number of variants. --Toram

...*scowls* ;) ~ G

DeathBySurfeit agrees on the consolidation point, and thinks that perhaps they should be collapsed into...

Consolidated Version

By Ikselam, Kraken, Blaque, Quendalon et al

Bulwark Stance</b>

<b>Cost: 5 motes
Duration: Instant
Type: Reflexive
Min. Melee: 3
Min. Essence: 1
Prereqs: Dipping Swallow Defense

The character now has the ability to use defensive Essence flows to gain perfect form and poise. Until her next action, the character may use her full Dexterity + Melee dice pool to parry any attack she is aware of, so long as the attack has a physical component and is not specifically noted as being impossible to block.

continued comments

I added yet another version. This one is specifically designed to allow you to put it up reflexively and have a persistent parry while you put up your scene length charms. -szilard

I believe the existing versions allow for that (activate once before your action, once afterward for protection until your action next turn). Making the Charm's duration 'special' also means it cannot be comboed, rendering it less effective then the existing versions; is this intentional? ...DeathBySurfeit

No... The point was that you can put this up and have it running for multiple turns while you put up scene-length effects (which tend to be simple, non-instant, non-comboable Charms). For example, you can put this up at the beginning of a round and have persistent parries while you put up, on subsequent rounds, Corona of Radiance, Strength-Increasing Exercise, and All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight (or whatever). Putting up any of these is a simple 'action' and would thus end the Charm as it is written in the core book, but my version would persist until an action that required a dice roll was taken. I'd like to make it comboable, but I tend to disapprove of "Instant" Charms that have lasting effects. It feels like cheating. -szilard