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This is a "What if" story. I was reading Sidereals, and the debate between GoldenH and myself came up. This is the result of playing with Sidereal MA. Do I think this is what happened to the Tepet Legions? No. But it could have....


It was the 16th day in the month of Resplendent Water, in the 767th year of the Empress' reign. The Heavenly City of Yu Shan glittered like a raindrop caught in a spider's web. Each spire of the city had its own special, specific gleam, as if to say "this is who I am, no one is like me". Calm serenity radiated from these buildings, bathing passers-by in tranquility.

Tranquility was in scant evidence in a section of the Golden Barque. Specifically, Ayesha Ura's office seemed to be lacking in traquility.

"What happened?" shouted Ayesha Ura. Her face did not lend itself to shouting. Most in the Gold Faction would characterize it as enigmatic. Currently, facial ambuigity seemed to be in as short supply as the aforementioned tranquillity.
"I repeat, what happened? How could this occur?" she demanded. The Sidereal being addressed, a young Chosen of Secrets named Yana Bar Wandu was taken aback by the urgent tone in her superior's voice. Her voice shook slightly as she began to explain.
"Ttthere has been an unforeseen bbblizzard. The entire North has been blanketed by aaabout a yard of snow. It started coming down ssix hours ago. It's ssstill sssnowing. The roads and the countryside are impassable,even by the icewalkers." She finished, looking out of breath.

"Unforeseen? How? There has been nothing on the Loom! Is it the Yozi's?" Ura asked. "Not as fffar as we can tell, Honored Leader. It seems that a group of Thunderbirds are to blame." Wandu answered.
"Thunderbirds? Who in the Bureau of Weather authorized this? No martial weather was scheduled. I know! I got the signatures myself!" Ura said, her anger evident in her voice.
"No one in the Bureau authorized it, Ma'am. The Thunderbirds were drunk. They had sky spirit juice, which was given to them by 'some guy'. He apparently cast aspersions on their weather-making skills. They then, quote, 'had to show that son-of-a-sow who cast the lightning bolts around here', unquote," Wandu answered, trying to regain her composure.

"Thunderbirds are a menace. Every last one of them thinks with his groin. So who was this 'some guy'?" Ura asked, her temperment returning to somewhere closer to normal.
"No clue, Ma'am. So far all readings have indicated he was outside of Fate." Wandu said.
"So who could have done it, then? The list is rather short."

At this point the third individual broke his silence. Lets His Life Be Cut Short By Curiosity, Ayesha Ura's monkey familiar, spoke up. "Betcha it rhymes with Fonze Laction," he said.
"Nice, but obvious," Ura answered. "Who in the Bronze Faction? I'll get a Censor on this, you can count on it! And if you say 'rhymes with Pebop Rejak', I'll feed you to Adjoran." Her familiar's mouth clicked with the sudden closing.

"We really don't know, Honored Leader." Wandu said.
"Let us focus on the problem, then. Time for Censors later. Where is the Bull of the North?" Ura asked.
"About 100 miles away. The icewalkers are prepping the snow, but until it stops it's just too deep and loose for them cross safely," Wandu said.
"What about Samea?" Ura asked.
"She apparently doesn't have any sorcery to enable a full host of icewalkers to travel that fast. Stormwind Rider can only take a few at a time. There's Swift Spirit of Transportation, but they don't have a boat." Wandu said.
"We could use Neighborhood Relocation." Ura said.
"They have rejected our offers of assistance. If we came back, they said they would shoot at us." Wandu said.
"No need to piss off a Solar Sorceress, then. How about the Mammoth Avatar? She's certain to help them Portal in!" Ura said.

"It's a taboo for her to travel for the week. Graveyard of the Mammoths week." Wandu said, her face crestfallen.
"Since when? Somebody has been messing with the Loom for sure!" Ura stated, her anger reasserting itself. "Damm it to the Green Sun and back! I have been planning this for two years! The Icewalkers need to meet the Tepet Legions in the Valley of Snow and Roses in 3 days, and destroy every last manjack of them. It is written in the Loom! Major Paradox snarl coming up if we let this go. Don't they see that?" Ura said, her voice desparate.
"Sometimes, Ma'am all of our sight is shorter than it should be." Wandu said.

"You're right. Well, I'd rather be buggered by Octavian than let this come completely apart. Get me Demon Killer White." Ura said, her face implacable rather than angry.
Wandu swallowed once. "Yes Ma'am. I live to serve".

The Violet Bier of Sorrows is a quiet place. It is the place where quiet was invented. Wandu reflected upon this to keep her mind off her surroundings. She heard the last click of her heel on stone, and knew it was alright to remove her blindfold. She found herself in a room filled with desks. Sidereals and spirits toiled alongside one other, scritching away with their calligraphy pens, making the great Celestial Bureaucracy run. She moved to the 11th desk of the 11th row, stopping in front of its inhabitant.

He was white. Not merely pale, but white. As white as truly fine paper can be, or bleached silk. His long hair was white through and through, as was every inch of exposed flesh. With the exception of his eyes, which were star flecked blue. It was the only color on his body, for his robes were white as well.

No one knew his real name. Not even himself. Once, long ago he had invoked a great magic. Part of the magic made him forsake his name and identity until he had succeeded in his mission. He had failed. No one knew what his mission was, and he could no longer tell them. He was found after many centuries in Creation, not knowing who he was.

The Celestial Bureacracy had issued him a new name and identity, but he never used it. Instead, he asked that all call him White. Demon Killer was a title rather than a family name. Wandu thought about all this as she gazed at his white countenance.

"Can I help you?" he asked, his voice quiet and measured.
"I'm a little confused. You are Demon Killer White, right?" she asked.
"Yes, that is my name. What confusion do you mean?" he answered.
"Aren't you supposed to be training young Sidereals?" she asked.
"Not until the afternoons. I always do my paperwork in the morning. Wayang gets quite testy if you slack on your paperwork. You also wouldn't want to watch him gesture at you if your calligraphy is lacking. Now, how can I help you?"

"Ayesha Ura needs to see you. Now," she said.
"Now? I'm in the middle of filing this petition. Can't it wait until later?" he asked plaintively.
"No. Now," she answered.
"What is it?" he said.
"Not here. Ura will tell you," she said.
"So it's that kind of business, eh? Well, have Ura speak to Wayang, would you? I really don't another emphatic gesturing match," he said.
"That I think we can handle" she answered.

A few turns down a Heavenly Road, they caught a cloud and headed back to the Golden Barque, which was returning from it's daily journey. White was lead into the Gold Faction leader's presence.

"Greetings, Ancient One. Would you like some tea? It is Heavenly Black Lotus, straight from Venus' table," Ura said by way of greeting.
"No thank you, Honored Leader. My palate is unsuited to the exquisite delicacy of Venus' refreshements. It would be quite wasted on me." he said.

"I am afraid this is not a social invite, Demon Killer White," she said.
"Please, call me White. The other is of no consequence," he said.
"As you wish, Ancient. I have a problem. A group of Thunderbirds has started the mother of all blizzards in the North, without authorization. 3 Tepet Legions are travelling through the area. They are supposed to meet the Bull of the North in 3 days at the Valley of Snow and Roses. The Bull is stranded 300 miles away," she said.

"This isn't really my department, but couldn't you get another weather god to change the weather?" he asked.
"Not in time. We're being blocked, by somebody who knows how to block," she answered.
"That is a problem. But what can you expect me to do about it? I really have not dealt with weather before. Or perhaps I have. But that was Before."

"I need you to go to the Valley of Snow and Roses and destroy the 3 Tepet Legions. I need it done in 2 days. I need you to leave a very few still alive and unsure of what hit them. All the others need to die," she said.

"I'm sorry, but that isn't my job. I prefer dealing with situations with no moral ambuiguity," he said.
"My heart goes out to you, Ancient. But I must harden my heart, as must you. This is Necessity. You joined the Gold Faction for a reason. It was time for the Prophecy to end. Well, this is what we are doing, ending the Prophecy, a bit at a time. This has been in the Loom for two years. Anything less than this and we have huge snarls on our hands," she said.

"Must it be me?" he asked.
"It must. You are the most skilled Martial Artist of all of the Gold Faction. You are also one of the eldest, as far as we can tell. I have little time, and only you can ensure success. Will you do this? For us? For the ending you seek?" she asked.

"Yes, I bow to my Honored Leader and to Necessity. What is the composition of the forces?" he asked. "3 full strength Imperial Legions, 5000 strong each. 3000 auxiliaries for support. 150 Dragon Blooded officers, of varying strength. 6 Common Warstriders. 16 Immaculate Monks, led by Cathak Lenaru, who has mastered 3 Dragon Paths," she said.
"Isn't that unusual?" he said.
"Somebody's been meddling. Can you do this?" she answered.
"Probably. I need a strong blessing on my endeavor, and I need it in a hurry. Can you do this for me?" asked he.

"Already taken care of. We just have to adjust the original blessing from the icewalker horde to you. But we can do this. We have to," she said.
"Then I must collect my things and go," he said.
"Go with the Maidens" she said.

Game Mechanics:

Demon Killer White's stat spread:

Demon Killer White Chosen of the Maiden of Endings Concept: Elder Sidereal Martial Arts Grandmaster (Sifu Level 5) Nature: Paragon

Str 5, Dex 7, Sta 5
Cha 4, App 5, Man 2
Int 3, Wits 7, Per 6

End 6, Ride 6, Thrown 5, Survival 4, Sail 3
Lore 5, Occult 6, Stealth 7, Investigation 4
Dodge 7 (when unarmed+3), Performance 5
Athletics 7, Awareness 6, Bureaucracy 7, Martial Arts 7 (Vs. Groups +3), Medicine 5
Brawl 5, Archery 5, Melee 6, Resistance 5

Charms: All Listed Sidereal Charms
MA Charms (All Charms): Five Dragon Form, Violet Bier of Sorrows, Air Dragon, Water Dragon, Fire Dragon, Ebon Shadow, 1 MA to be named Later.
Sideral MA (All Charms): Charcoal March of the Spiders, Prismatic Arrangement of Creation, Citrine Poxes of Contagion, 1 Sidereal MA to be named Later.

Willpower: 10
Essence: 7, Personal Ess: 24, Peripheral Ess: 65 (69)

Virtues: Comp 4, Conv 5, Temp 3, Valor 5 (Very Passionate by Exalted standards)
Health Levels: 0X7, -1X2,-2X2,-4, Inc.
World Shaping Artistic Vision: -1 vs. Groups, -1 vs. Demons, -1 Celestial Bureaucracy

Artifacts: Starmetal Bracers (+1 to Speed, Acc, Def)
Manse: 3 with Hearthstone: Windhands Gem
Familiars: 7 Albino Crows, all Godly Companions - Ess: 69, Charms: Materialise, Shapeshift, Measure the Wind, Affinity Element Control

Demon Killer White goes to the Valley of Snow and Roses. He and his familiars prepare a den for the ambush site, using a Singing Staff borrowed from a Gold Chosen of Venus. The den is light tight. From the outside it looks like part of the hillside, blanketed by snow.

White has one of his Crows scout out the army's position. They find that the army is going to pass by tommorrow.

Tommorrow comes, and the army starts to come close (about 3 minutes away). White finishes his meditation and prepares. First, he activates his Elder Sutra for the Charcoal March of the Spiders (Cost: 1 Will. Remaining Will: 9). He then activates Unnatural Many Step Stride (cost: 1 mote, due to sutra discount. Will: 9, Pers Ess: 23). From this point on, White's feet never touch the ground. He dematerialises (Cost: 1 mote. Pers Ess: 22) joining his Familiars, all of which are dematerialised as well.

He then waits, and once each turn uses 'Seven Leg Walking' on a familiar (Water Spider Bite on willing victims - Cost : 10 motes due to sutra. Ess: special) After all have been hit with Seven Leg Walking, he has access to their Essence pools. He will not use more than half of any of their Essence pools. This gives him access to around 350 motes of Essence. His anima will not activate, though theirs would if they had any.

After this things get interesting. He activates the Elder Sutra for Prismatic Arrangement of Creation (Cost: 1 Will. Will: 8, Effective Ess: 360). Then he activates Charcoal March of the Spiders ( 2 motes due to sutra discount. Will: 8 Ess 358), and on the turn after Four Magical Materials Form (5 motes, sutra disc. Will: 8 Ess: 362). Demense Emulation Practice follows (10 motes, 1 health b/c of sutra. Will 8, Ess 352). 7 Succ. on the Demense roll.

Then we have Blade of the Battle Maiden (28 motes, 2 Will. Will: 6 Ess 324), Conclusion Pursuing Approach (10 motes, 1 Will, 1 health. Will 5, Ess 314, -2 0 health). Burn Life maxed Strength, Stamina (42 motes. Will: 5, Ess 272), and finally 5 Dragon Blocking (5 motes, 1 Will. Will: 4 Ess 267).

He walks through the den wall and waits for the army to pass. He then materialises (1 mote, Ess 266), and unleashes Grandmother Spider Mastery (10 motes, sutra discount Will 4 Ess 257) for his first action, splits his dice pool 4 times for his second action, moving with Dance of the Hungry Spiders (free from Charcoal Spiders Form), and goes full dodge for his third action, holding Duck Fate if he needs it.

White's stats currently:

Init: (Dex +Wits X2 from PAoC): 28 +3 (FMMF) = 31
Str: 12, Sta 12
Dex + MA= 31, target number 5 (-1 vs. Groups, -1 Astr. Blessing)
Reflexive block from 5 Dragon Blocking (7 + 14 Blade of Battle Maiden) = 21, TN 5

Active Charms:
Elder Sutra for the Charcoal March of the Spiders
Unnatural Many Step Stride
Water Spider Bite (aka Seven Leg Walking)
Elder Sutra for Prismatic Arrangement of Creation
Charcoal March of the Spiders Form
Four Magical Materials Form
Demesne Emulation Practice
Blade of the Battle Maiden
Conclusion Pursuing Approach
Burn Life
5 Dragon Blocking

He spends 1 Will (Remaining Will 3) Channeling Conviction. He rolls 39 dice (+3 Acc Starmetal Claws, 5 Conviction). To this I add the Five Jade Fury Bonus of 39/3, round up= 13 dice. This comes to 52 dice. I rolled 30 successes. This is the first strike. It rains down on every visible person, which happens to be the whole host, as they are in a valley.

No mortal can block this attack. The raw damage before soak is 49 damage + 7 agg. This is before the Jade damage bonus from 4MMF. And so, every mortal legionnaire dies, blown away by the raw power of the Grandmother Spider. White gets back 1 Will for every wound level inflicted, so he's at Will 10 once more.

What of the Dragon Blooded? None of them are over Essence 5. All of them have different skills they specialize in.

Well… let us assume that they are suspicious, being in enemy country. Many of them have long standing effects up, such as Whirlwind Shield Form, Smoke Obscuring Method, and even perhaps Defense from Anathema Method. Let us say all make their Wits + Awareness roll so they can use normal reflexive defenses. Some make it with 3 successes, allowing them to full dodge or parry. And a couple make it with 5 successes, allowing them to react normally. Several are in Warstriders; there are a few sorcerers.

How does this stack up? Well let’s take Dodge. A maxed out DB has 13 dice in Dex + Dodge, bumped to 21 with Smoke Obscuring. Bump it by 5 for channeling Valor and you have 26 dice. Nice. Equal to a Solar doing dodgeparry. But ultimately futile. Charcoal March of Spiders Form allows free use of Dance of Hungry Spiders. Dodgers suffer a penalty equal to casters Essence. –7 dice. Four Magical Materials Form allows free use of Flickering Moonsilver, which gives a penalty of casters MA. –7 dice also (nonenhanced) so –14 dice to the dodge. 26-14=7 dice. Can’t make it against 30 successes. Max dodge successes = 16 successes to hit. Average is 4 successes. I got 3. Assuming jade reinforced breastplate and Stamina 4, soak is 12. 27 +19 Base = 46 –12 = 34 dice /3 round up (4MMF Jade Fury)=12 dice bonus. 34+12=46 dice. 10 wound levels. Ouch.

What about soak? A DB sorcerer with Skin of Bronze, a Gem of Adamant skin inside a Warstrider with Stamina 5 gets 37 soak. Good. But not enough. Assuming he is also the aforementioned dodge monkey, White gets a net 27 successes to hit. Base Damage is 19. 19+27=46 –37 = 9. 9/3 =3. 12 dice. 4 wound levels, plus 1 agg plink.

Finally what about parry? Doomed. Dance of the Hungry Spiders gives a penalty of half init to parries. Min init is 32. –16 dice + -7 Dice Flickering Moonsilver = -23 dice. A DB would need to have a parry pool of 83 dice to do this reliably. A combo dodge parry won’t work for the same reason. Getting over a 23 dice penalty is real work for a DB. DB’s only have one reflexive parry, through MA. It gives Essence dice. No Essence 24 DB’s even hinted at. Let us say a maxed parry, though: with Deadly Wildfire Legion and a Serpent Sting Staff it has a pool of 26. Add Valor 5 for 31 dice. 31-23=8 dice. 5 successes.

So a Gem of Perfect Mobility, allowing a non reflexive dodgeparry with a maxed twink monkey for a DB gives you 8 successes. 22 net successes is enough to really do some harm.

Now what about 5 Dragon Fortitude? No max noted on 5 Dragon Fortitude. Assuming above reinforced breastplate, 46-12 = 34 soak. 34 motes is doable for a DB, but this is where we run into problems. You see, White split his attack 4 times. Each one is counted twice and must be defended separately. So while you might take one strike like this, 34 X 8 = 272 motes. Seems unlikely.

So what will work? Safety Among Enemies. 3 motes, reflexive. If you can make a difficulty 4 roll, you’re safe, but the girl next to you is dead. Regrettable, but you are a Prince of the Earth, and maybe she will be too, in her next life, for helping you out now. 3 X 8 = 24 motes. The only problem is that folks are going to die after each strike, and dead people don’t count for the SAE Charm to work. Let’s say you keep getting blown next to each other, though. Remember all of these folks are blown 1 yard per die of damage inflicted. Mortal bodies are flying everywhere. How many DB’s have SAE? For this purpose, I say 20%. 30 DB’s have it. 75% of them make the roll after each strike. After 8 strikes, we say 1 regular DB is still alive.

This leaves the Immaculates. Most of them are dead too. The Air guys? Dead. Can’t make the rolls. Wood? Very dead. Can’t heal after you’re dead. Earth? Even with Perfection of the Earth Body and Earth Dragon active, still isn’t enough soak. Add on Stone Dragon's Skin and you have 20L. A nice sum, but nowhere near enough.

That leaves us Water and Fire. Water Aspects are OK if they know Bottomless Depths Defense. So let us say that 3 of the 5 Water Aspects know BDD, along with Cathak Lenaru. So that’s 4 Immaculates still up.

How about Fire? This one is interesting. Fire Form gives you auto successes to add to a dodge. So assuming the above dodge monkey stats that’s 7 dice + 5 successes. Still not enough for a miss, and Fire Form doesn’t allow for armor. Not there. But wait! Add on Defense against Anathema for another 5 successes! Still not there. So we add on Jewel of the Flying Heart, which adds half Conviction. That’s 3 dice (assuming 5 Conv.) So 10 dice plus 10 Successes. I got 4 successes. 30-14 = 16 net successes. 19 +16 = 35. 35-8 = 27. 27/3 = 9. 36 dice. 18 Wound levels is what I rolled. So all the Fire guys are dead.

Then we have a couple of Sidereal “observers”. Minders, really. Upon seeing an obvious Elder Sidereal under the effect of multiple Sidereal MA, both of them grab their Impeding the Flow/Avoidance Kata Combo, say “Oh Fuck. I’m Outta Here…” and decide that they were currently vacationing in Nexus.

And this goes on 7 more times…..

So, at the end of White’s attack, everybody except for 1 regular DB, 3 Water Aspects and Cathak Lenaru are dead. The DB is in a little bit of shock, never having seen this much carnage. But he draws his dire lance and starts to move into Melee range against this obvious threat.

“Vile Anathema!” snarls Cathak Lenaru. “Your infamy will be remembered this day. Every last Dynast will rise up against you. The Dragons themselves will bear witness, and bring you down!”

“That would require at least one of you to survive intact. Forgive me, but this I doubt,” Demon Killer White answers.

Cathak Lenaru, not currently in Melee range, unleashes Wrathful Winds, bolstering it with 1 Will. This cannot be dodged with White’s full dodge, so he activates Duck Fate (10 motes, Remaining Will 10, Ess. 247) Rolling 17 dice vs. Ess 5, he gets 9 successes, and dodges the Wrathful Winds.

The remaining Water Immaculates attack, each with their own individual Charm. Drowning in Blood, Essence Dousing Wave, and Tsunami Force Shout.

Drowning in Blood has to hit. Water DB rolls 18 dice. But White glides away on Dance of the Hungry spiders, giving him a penalty of half init (32/2 = 16). So Water DB #1 rolls 2 dice, getting 2 successes. White doesn’t bother to dodge this, using only his reflexive parry of 21 dice. 9 successes is still enough.

Essence Dousing Wave has the same problem. 2 dice. This White actually wants to use his full Dodge plus reflexive parry. 16 successes. No chance.

Tsunami Force Shout is another “just take damage” shindig. Duck Fate takes care of this one (Ess 237).

Round 2.

White gets init. He uses Nest of Living Strands for his first action, splits his action 5 ways and uses Pattern Spider Touch on those attacks, and full dodges for his third action.

Nest of Living strands (5 motes due to sutra. Ess = 232). Everybody has advanced at this point to within 210 feet. I roll 31 dice, getting 19 successes. All of them suffer a penalty of 9 dice to all physical actions. This is a “just in case” Charm.

He then hits all 4 Immaculates with Pattern Spider Touch. 34 dice splits into 29, 28, 27, and 26, target number 5. I rolled 19, 19, 13, 14. With the additional penalty from Nest of Living Strands, nobody can dodge.

Now this costs a lot. No sutra discount here, so it costs 80 motes, 5 Will ( remaining Will 5, Ess 172). Each of the Immaculates becomes a wounded Tepet veteran, coming home from the disastrous war against the Bull of the North. All of their memories are of a vast icewalker horde, led by an obviously supernatural leader. Perhaps God Blooded, perhaps Anathema.

Finally, White bows to the one remaining DB. “Forgive me for what Necessity makes me do.” He says. Then hits him with a regular attack, blowing him away with 21 successes. The regular DB (Tepet Radu, a real shit who deserved this, but that’s beside the point) takes a net 22 wound levels and dies. In a spectacularly gory fashion, of course.

White then goes back to the den, gathers his exhausted familiars and goes back to Yu Shan. His anima never flared *once*.


I think that all of my rules interpretations are correct. I do not think that this could happen to Solars, due to Perfect Defenses. It would have been more of a battle than a slaughter. Abyssals, same deal.

Lunars might also require a different tactic. Maybe, maybe not. Please discuss. Tell me what you think, and about how I forgot a critical DB defense. Flame if you like for Sidereal fanboyism. Mind you, I’m more of a Solar booster. Comments?


Two really minor points. First, FJF adds successes, not dice (ew). Second, this is hideously cool. =) Also, though, I was wondering exactly why this wouldn't work on someone with perfect defenses. I mean, there are only a certain number of Willpower points you can spend on the damn things before you're out - how experienced do you see a Solar or Lunar needing to be to survive this? - SMK

Arn't there Endurance charms that let you gain WP from being attacked? Other than that, I think a Solar has to have custom charms to survive that. A version of Surprise Anticipation Method that gives you more warning, Athletics charms you can combo with Seven Shadow Evasion, whatever.
Of course, that's assuming a Solar at Essence 3 or so. If you posit a Solar who's even remotely on this guy's level, she opens up her Orichalchum coptic jar of contained wyld energy given to her by Unknowable Butterfly Mistress, Queen of the Faeries, and uses Wyld Shaping Method to fill the air for miles around with infinite gently falling rose petals, thus obscuring Demon Killer White's vision and ruining Grandmother Spider Mastery. Or she uses some amped version of Respect Commanding Attitude that forces Demon Killer to sit there and listen to her babble for five rounds while she turns on Protection of Celestial Bliss. Or some hideous Stealth charm that beats PAoC's perfect perception. Or some scene lenth dice-adder supplementing persistant defenses. Or a 30 success Presence roll that makes Demon Killer fall to the ground weeping with joy at her beauty. Or she redirects the damage to her summoned demonic bodyguard, Ligier. Or something. I mean, she's a Solar! She'll have something ridiculous up her sleeve. -MeiRen

I think he's saying that they'd be able to survive the initial "everybody dies" attack. And then, presumably, run, until ChucklesMcKillcrazy had lost his scene-long Charms. I mean, the guy's a death machine with that much advance preparation. I'd imagine not even a full Circle of really badass Solars could handle him if they were caught totally flat-footed - they'd have to run.
Someone should ask RebeccaBorgstrom if she knew this sort of stuff was possible with the SiderealMartialArts. I mean, yeah, he's the pinnacle of SiderealMartialArts badassery, but... but... he killed an entire army with a single (loosely-defined) attack!
Also, quick question: why would the Sidereal minders need to have ItF comboed with Avoidance Kata? Couldn't they reflexively AK as a response to the attack and cease to have been there before the attack even hits? - DigitalSentience

Awesome with just one lil nitpick, DKW needs to be in PAoC Form for it to work. - Issaru

    • Just one thing - minor really -
      • How does this stack up? .... Assuming jade reinforced breastplate and Stamina 4, soak is 12. 27 +19 Base = 46 –12 = 34 dice /3 round up (4MMF Jade Fury)=12 dice bonus. 34+12=46 dice. 10 wound levels. Ouch.
    • The bonus damage from 5 jade fury ma charm is auto damage not bonus dice. Eldmar
      • SMK already pointed that out. At least read the earlier comments before you comment yourself.

Would someone be so kind as to explain the basis for his massive 360m pool? I know he somehow linked himself to his familiars, but I'm not familiar with the charm, nor it's specifics. I've got almost every book, so a simple name and book should suffice. Also, how does one get seven familiars, statted out with essence pools? Is there canon on that at all - I mean, what prevents a starting character from having those same seven familiars? -- GreenLantern, who wants to copy that for an NPC boss of his, and can't figure out how

He used Water Spider Bite, which lets you spend someone elses (usualy an enemies, though not here) essence as your own, which belongs to the Charcoal March of the Spiders and requires either Essence 6 or 7 (I can't remember). Sids can have up to their permenent Essence in Familiars/Aquantences (I think, I don't own Sidreals), and their are several Sid ride charms that help you buff your famiiliars. -Dasmen Who was never here
    • Ok My bad, I noticed the comment but for some reason it didn't register... bad day in the office yesterday! None the less this is a good piece of work, do you mind if I take a copy to upset the characters in my game with? Eldmar

Some Lunars could survive. The high-Dex model, with the appropriate Charms and gear, could evade all of the mass attacks by dint of gigantic dice pool and perfect effects, could survive until White concentrated on them; at that point, only a Lunar of comparable Essence would be able to support the effects necessary to counteract the very large penalties accrued. The super-soak monster with Gem of Adamant Skin could fairly easily ignore him were it not for Demesne Emulation Practice; that requires hardness from armor to ignore. If they have that, then his only real choice to hurt them is a Charm which deals all of its damage as agg; achievable, but probably quite expensive, especially if sufficiently Comboed as to be able to bypass the various forms of defense offerable. Vargo Teras.

I'm interested in knowing how things would have worked out without water spider bite... Would the difference be Anima flare only or a total breakdown of ability? With the Essence Pool White sits on he should be able to challenge armies... Imho.

This is.. but he.. and the... what for... holy crap. Is JPCardier some kind of mathematical and Charm-memorizin' savant? This exercise, this demonstration, is beyond my ability to even comprehend. This is the post of a Primordial. --UncleChu

What blows my mind is that this is a perfectly valid example of a relatively senior Sidereal - and that since Sidereals live for many thousands of years, that if they don't die at a young age, they're going to be very hard to kill. One has to wonder why Chejop Kejak isn't out there killing Bull of the North himself, not to mention how many hundred others. Worried about Mnemon not making it to the throne? Kill every dynast that doesn't like her - it's so simple. Which begs the question - other than distaste, (and perhaps the Great Curse) what's keeping the dozen or so odd elder Sidereals from really moving Creation at their whim? -- GreenLantern
Could Demon Killer White, being an amnesiac, somehow be lacking a bigger picture that someone like CK might instinctively have? The effects of killing every Dynast opposin' Mnemon would be unhingingly harsh to the rest of Fate, definitely giving the elder Bronzoids pause. You bring up an excellent point, though, Lantern, it's something that could probably withstand further in-depth speculation: The Elder Sidereals have Real Ultimate Power. Why do they restrain themselves? --UncleChu
For the same reason the deathlords don't come to personally spank your ass when you immolate some small zombies. For the same reason Ma-Ha-Suchi is merely planning his invasion, not already burning down your village. It makes for lousy story (probably). Essentially, the Exalted world works on narrative and dramatic principles, not nessessarily the 'smart' thing to do. For a more IC explantion, you have a few options ranging from "But those petty fools are no impediment to my plans." (Hubris, or the Great Curse), to the immense quantities of paperwork you have to do as you go up in rank, to the fact that they're all so busy in their own internecine scheming, and making sure none of their rivals plans come to fruition that they simply don't have the time. Or alternatly, they're all too busy patching up the massive fate problems to bother with such petty snarls as "Who rules the Blessed Isle?". Or maybe something just comes along and kills them all, as happened in a sidereals game Kasumi ran. - Kraken

It's like this. The Sidereals are 1) Hiding, 2) Divided into rival factions. The result is a cold war in which neither side escalates to their full power because it would blow their cover and because the end result of this would be either 1) the Elder sidereals throw down and butcher each other, or 2) they'd butcher each other's pawns in droves. Let's say Chejop begins roaming around killing Mnemon's rivals. Either the Gold Faction will just drop their elders on Memnon and slaughter her or else they'll confront Chejop at one of his assassinations and all the elders will mutually annihilate. Neither side can afford to escalate, or soon all the Elders will kill each other or else the whole fabric of Fate will be shredded to bits. Elder Sidereals save their powers for things like 'Major Fair Folk Invasion', where both factions will agree that something is bad and must be annhilated. And even then, the habit of secrecy dies hard, I expect. --JohnBiles
Also.. well, CK may be the nominal head of the sidereals, but he still has superiors. the 5 maidens, for example.. Given that it's been stated that massive essence discharges screw with fate - thus resulting in more work for the bureau - I suspect that if the sidereals stopped doing their /job/ and started abusing it to such a massive, obvious extent, they would suddenly all fibd themselves with a +8 TN for 'Actions not to do with their actual job. Now back to work!' courtesy of the maidens. - Molikai

Wow. Pointed this out to someone and did notice one thing. Probably the only way the DB's could do anything would be if any of the Water Immaculates had Spirit Walking active. In that case, a few Tsunami Force Shouts might have been able to take out White's familiars, althogh this would require many immaculates, or a few with a very odd combo.

Anyway, I think the real reason these Eldar types don't go out and do stuff, is that they attract each other. If Mask of Winters starts taking the Front lines alot, maybe this guy and Ketchup show up to stop him..And his victory is MUCH less certian then. Really, in that case, it's better to only do stuff yourself if you have no choice. As you are risking ALOT when you do. -FlowsLikeBits

The Deathlords have less to lose than the Sidereals. For one, their Malfean masters will (albeit painfully) always reconstruct them. For another, collateral damage is their goal in the first place. - IanPrice

Also, on my own comment: 26 - 14 = 12, not 7. For the Fire Immaculates, Flame-Flicker stance was forgotten, which adds to the difficulty of attack rolls (effectively giving automatic defense successes). For the parrying people, the possible dice from Five Dragon Blocking weren't added, so they could have had 13 dice left. Assuming they are also the Fire Immaculates, that's 25 dice rolled + 15 automatic successes for defense. Average of 27 successes. Against the 30 successes listed above, this still isn't enough, of course. Nor is it enough against the 32 successes which would be the average with his stats. Other than that, I think the dodgemonkeys should have used creative stunts to have SAE direct the attacks at rocks. Also, I think a situation like this would call for mass combat rules to be used. That way the whole army could use one stunt to direct his attacks at, oh, the cliff above him. Plus, the army's stats as a whole would be better than seperately, and more of them would be able to weather the assault (though quite a few magnitude points might be lost). I say this fully realizing, of course, that the player's guide might not have even been out when this was originally written. - IanPrice

I thought PG came out before Sidereals, but I'm not sure. Personally, I wouldn't allow SAE to redirect onto scenery, well, more than once, and even then, it better be good. (I'm sorry, that's far TO cheesy, even for me). All mass combat would mean is that tha he only had to use Pattern Spider Touch once or twice. Also, personally, I'd rule everyone has to defend individually against area attacks like this. Just doesn't make sense otherwise. -FlowsLikeBits
The PG was definitely not out when this was written. This is a pretty old page, and Sidereals came out well before the PG; I believe at least a year, possibly two.
~ Shataina

Any idea of how much experience is needed to make the old boy? ~ SolVachel Trying to get a feel for how old elder is

Without spending much time calculating numbers, I would guess that he is in the 5000-5500 XP range (Which is the First Age Sidereal range). There's about 1500 XP in SMA, 1500 XP into Celestial Martial Arts, and "All Sidereal Charms" covers around 1500 XP. That said, there are vast sections of his sheet that aren't required to pull this effect off. He's only using Five-Dragon, Violet Bier, Charcoal March, and Prismatic Arrangement, plus a few Sidereal Charms. He could reach that with 600 XP worth of Charms, meaning that he could theoretically be doing all this at under 750 years of age.
Huh. That's about what I figured. 1k-2k old. Not bad at all. ~ SolVachel