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Hm, your format isn't without merit, Killed, but I'm not sure if it's appropriate for the precedent set by the layout thus far; entries seem, perhaps, more well-defined from a more objective narrative standpoint, though I can see a strong flavor being gained from occasional first-person accounts. That said, though, if you prefer that structure, it's not my place to inhibit you in the least, though I will stress that you should double-check your general grammar before submitting, if possible; capitalizing personal pronouns and what-have-you. If you intend to stick with the same personality, however, it may be a little difficult to properly address phantom entries later on, though it might lead to an interesting narrative winding through the Lexicon. ~Jabberwocky

The persona is actually the first age life of my longest running character (~250-300 xp Night Caste). I will try and do a better job on punctuation though, probably type this stuff up on word first then cut and paste. I also imagine all the Scholarly types are gonna have a lot of fun referencing in a sort of mocking way to the accounts of the White Hand. If it gets to be too much of a hassle, I can switch personas to something more appropriate.\\ Oh, and it's purposely written in a not so grammatically correct way.\\ -Killed

I'll note that it's fair game for people to make editorial comments on entries. I like the idea of inserting narrative into the Lexicon, but I suggest you do at one remove - instead of the piece of narrative by itself, frame it in a short, scholarly discussion on why it is relevant. White Hand, IOW, isn't working on the Lexicon; some scholar is quoting White Hand as evidence for his point. - willows

In reference to editorial comments, I'm pretty sure that Willows meant that you make editorial comments *in your own entries*, right? Or are we going to attach massive strings of corrosive commentary to everyone else's entries? If I wanted to embroil myself in a perpetual ongoing flame-fest, I'd go to rpg.net and be done with it. - Quendalon

Oh, sorry. I've removed my commentary from your entry, and will refrain from adding such again in the future. However, in the context of both 'it's fair game for people to make editorial comments on entries' and 'Despite the fact that your peers are self-important, narrow-minded dunderheads' that corrosive academic backstabbing was the order of the day. Personally, I find vitrol funny- especially scholarly vitrol, and double especially scholarly vitrol over a fictional world. - DS

Sure, as long as you put it *in your own entries*. The game rules don't allow for any text to be added outside of the body of your own entries. Keep in mind that this is supposed to simulate a printed encyclopedia, and that the hypothetical editor isn't going to print the commentary you scribbled into the margin.  :-) I recommend you check out the Nobilis Lexicon, where you'll see a lexicon game already in action. - Quendalon

Ahh! All is made clear. I'll remove the rest of the entries at once. :) - DS, just now seeing a game in progress.

One of the ways that you comment on other folks entries is through new, subsequent entries. You just have to rememebr the basic rule that their facts are correct, their interpretation is up for grabs. -- Jeremiah Genest

Sorry, I skipped ahead and added a few entries later on. I'll remove them if you want. -- Arbane the Terrible (at reading instructions)

Well, no harm done! My suggestion is this: edit the entries so that they fit the format (refer to one entry that already exists and two that do not), and don't worry about the order. Welcome to the Wiki! - willows

Arbane - Your entry for Terashem doesn't have any citations to other entries. -- Voidstate

Our first collision! What shall we do to resolve it? - Quendalon

You saved your entry first, so I'll edit mine to be compatible with it. - willows

That's a neat entry, Dim! I would like to propose, however, that you shift 'Seafarers of Nibarak' to 'Nibarak, Seafarers of', on the grounds that we have a glut of 'S' entries. Also, now that we've filled all the 'D' slots, it's time to start on 'E'! - Quendalon

That was fun to read, Dim! I've taken the liberty of fixing a typo or two that I caught and taking Quendalon's suggestion for you - I want to see the Seafarers writeup, and moving it up in the alphabet's a good way to make that happen. In the meanwhile, I am going to see what I can do about eliminating my own 'S' links, trying to cut it down to maybe five phantoms if I can. - willows

Aww, shucks, guys, you're making me blush :) I saw the "three accounts of the king's death" in the original entry and just ran with it. Thanks for moving the entries around, willows. I figured I should do something as soon as I went to enter it into the section. -Dim

Ahh so that means my Fugazi Jihad is in violation, since it has 2 phantoms and 2 links to other enteries Alabrax

Finally finished Feral Dragon Kings, would've last night, but had a small crisis to deal with and never got back to it before I crashed into bed. Hope everyone enjoys. -MidKnight

No Phantoms attached to The Green and Gold Eastern Mercantile Fund? Alabrax

Sorry, I thought Telgar told me I wasn't supposed to note my own phantoms, but it turned out that I misunderstood what he was saying. The phantoms are up now.\\

I had a link under the entry that said what entry the original citation was from, but someone got rid of it. Is there a rule against linking to the entry it came from? I just thought it'd make it easier ...\\ ~ Shataina

PS: Late praise, but I absolutely love your entry on Chopakta of Rabishu, Dim.\\ ~ Shataina

Shouldn't all the comments we are seeing in the entries be placed here instead? Alabrax

Very Very nice work on the Harbor of Stars entry! (Even if it does pick on Bal Terin) :) Alabrax

Why thank you! You're welcome to return the favor. :) It's lots of fun to intertwingle as many entries as possible. And I'm glad I don't have to add a backlink to every phantom I reference; that would be a pain, and a mess. - Quendalon

Every time I try to edit the General Discussions page, the entirety of the text fails to load (it cuts off halfway through one of Quendalon's comments) and I'm afraid to edit it, since we might lose all the content after that point. Is this a bug or what? I've tried reloading, and quitting and reopening IE, with no results.\\ ~ Shataina

Are you on an Apple? I have encountered problems with other, similarly long pages when using Explorer Mac... I think it's got something to do with the maximum length of the textbox. - willows

Yes, I am. <petting her computer protectively> And I love her dearly ... <cough> Anyway, er, so do you know of any way to deal with it?\\ ~ Shataina

Ok someone explain to me what this forum is for please. I thought it was to comment on particular entries, instead of posting alot of comments on the same page of the entry. Can anyone enlighten me? Alabrax

You are correct. - Quendalon

I wanted point out that the Will of Hesiesh entry is freaky. The Will was originally ment to be whatever is inside the Effort and connected to the Dragon-Kings. The actual entry on the Will makes it into something related to DB's. I wonder if this was on purpose? - Telgar

On the subject of using macs to view the wiki, Explorer for Mac is not the browser you want to use. Get with Safari as soon as you humanly can. But, even then, I check the wiki with Explorer and I don't find any problems with it. I'm running Explorer 5.2 for OS X. You might also want to try OmniWeb, the new 5.0 demo is out and it's pretty awesome (if a tad unstable). Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled discussion. :) -- DaveFayram

Okay, I'm scared that I'm going to be attacked and beaten into the ground, but I am forced to say this: I don't use OSX, and I'd really prefer to avoid it. I don't like it.\\ Does this mean I'm basically screwed unless I convert?\\ Le sigh ... if it does, I suppose I must be assimilated to OSX ... it's been pending for a long time now ... my life is pain.\\ ~ Shataina

Interesting... I am basically Mac stupid... if you dont with OSX what do you use? Alabrax

OS9. The old system from before they rewrote everything and created OSX. I know it's worse for a zillion and one technical reasons, but I just kinda like it better. I am a creature of attachment and aesthetics, not logic :) And OSX has been beaten with an ugly stick. I mean, damn.\\ I've heard that you can install OSX and then run OS9 within it, but this seemed like a lot of effort to me for something I have, up till now, had absolutely zero need for. I mean, all my important programs run fine, etc. And I just keep coming back to the ugly stick thing. I don't want to support the designers who came up with that thing.\\ ~ Shataina

Holy crap Willows! I opened dibbing... left the room for 20 mins expecting I would be able to dib Itinerants of the World Mother and I come back and its already done. Hmm now what to dib :( Alabrax

BTW, Alabrax, there's a little box at the bottom of your wiki browsing page. It is labelled search:0) Type whatever you want in there and you can get searches that way without having to make a page. It's what I've been doing. -- CrownedSun

You know right after I made that page I saw that search option. I feel like such a horses ass o_0 Alabrax

I just noticed the old comment by Alabrax on what this forum is for. Should I start putting editing comments here or should I keep adding them to the entries in question? Putting them here seems kinda irrelevant, I think, and wastes space. I mean, honestly, who else besides the author cares about me pointing out that someone might have used the wrong word somewhere?\\ But if we think it's a good idea, I'll start putting editing comments here.\\ Re: the discussions page (which I can't respond on directly, sorry ...) -- I was figuring that people would have to finish back-phantoms in their own time, on top of whatever letter was already happening. There's no reason to hold up the game or change the duration of a given letter just because someone is filling in a back-phantom.\\ ~ Shataina

Shataina if only the author could read your comments on the lexicon entries I could see where you are coming from on this. But since we all can read it, and comments like that were meant to be posted here... Alabrax

Dammit, Voidstate! By correcting your typos in the Hesiesh's Will article, you ruined Isparian Wall idea! - Quendalon

Shaitana, I won't beat you into the ground over it, but Apple sure will. OS9 is offically dead, gone the way of OS/2, BeOS and (sigh) NeXTSTEP. You'd be best to join the masses. If it makes you feel any better, you can use Classic mode to make some OS9 apps run on OS X. \\

\\ I won't ask why you don't like it, but please take a computer scientist's assurance that OS X is a Good Thing for most cases, and is probably one of the best OSs out to date.\\ \\ Back to your regularly scheduled forum conversation. \\ -- DaveFayram

I remember I was so happy when I found out that you could set up WinXP so that it looks just like Win98. Stupid bubbly windows not letting me define my own color scheme... why I'm posting this, I have no idea.\\

_Ikselam

OK, I am lost here... whats the deal with Eight Immortalities Fellowship? Do they bind Demons for good or for evil? My "I" entry seems to be related to them... but I need to know what the real deal is with them first. Anyone care to enlighten me here? Alabrax

Well, if it's not spelled out, guess who gets to decide? Yes, that's right, you decide! Or you can pass the buck to the next fellow with a related entry! The power is in your hands. - Quendalon

Alabrax, did you create three new phantoms from Incense Descending Crown? - Quendalon

Well maybe. It depends... if we make a back link do we count that against he number of phantoms we are supposed to make? If so... then yes. If not... then no. Alabrax

I just noticed that the newer entries are alot longer then some of the first ones. It seems we are getting longer and longer winded as we go. Is this a problem? I know I have been bad about this so far. I normally range anywhere from 450 to 750 words. What do you guys think? Alabrax

I think it's both inevitable and desirable; we're getting to the point where articles are starting to have several previous articles' worth of material to deal with as well as theor own phantoming, and this requires more length. Note that lengthy and long-winded are independent variables, more or less; I can be long-winded in twenty words, or take several pages to be succinct about a very subtle point. - willows

As a sidenote, I'd point out that there are advantages to articles being short. Mainly that it leaves plenty of gaps for future entries and means there's less chance of contradictions (it's easier to skim the several entries to check they don't contradict what you have written than a single long one). Also, it means there's a more consistant style with earlier entries. I've certainly been guilty of writing long entries but I think the Lexicon will benefirt if we all try not to let articles continue growing. - Voidstate

I, on the other hand, think it would be ideal if all out entries looked like Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/IndentureOfDragons, lengthy and heavily linked over. Once we hit the end of the alphabet, I'm going to try to revise and lengthen my earlier entries so they fit this model better. - willows

Lol! How ironic. if i'd been asked to cite examples of perfect length, I'd choose your Treaty of Bells or Court of Silk and Steel. *shrug* I agree that linking with the text works well, though. - Voidstate

Alabrax, the limit is two new phantoms, not two non-backward new phantoms. - Quendalon

Well I dont know who posted that, but I have already taken care of it. And now I know. -The Real Alabrax

Just so my above comment makes sense I should point out that when I wrote the above reply it was in responce to the post above it... which some how was mistakenly signed by me. Glad to see your human after all Quendalon *smile* -Alabrax

Shataina, I loved your entry on Dreaming Steel. Completely not what I was expecting. :) --Dissolvegirl

I agree with Dissolvegirl. Very good. Nice and tragic :) -Dim

Thank you! <grin> When I first looked at Dreaming Steel, I was like, that's gotta be the name of a Fair. Then when Dissolvegirl wrote that it was the person who led the final Primordial charge, it all just fell into place.  :) I love the Fair Folk, too. Mm ... pretty.\\

~ Shataina

Hee hee ... a lot of amusing entries today. I totally cracked up at the thought that Jalan Dai was the God of Unfortunate Mistakes ... and the thought of three hundred cats "mewing petulantly" outside Justicar Crystal Raven's manor. Dissolvegirl, you're awesome. (Have you ever read any Terry Pratchett? He has a God of Hangovers in one of his books. That's the only domain I can think of that's worse than Unfortunate Mistakes.)\\ Voidstate, your article on the Journal of the Cascade Years was awesome too ("Winsome Tzar of Pulchritude" made me laugh for a good five minutes), but there's one sentence that confuses me: I wouldn't be at all suprised if he Iridescent Decade exactly for this purpose!\\ If he ... what? Just letting you know.\\ Oh, and Dim, your entry on hiefozil was cool (I might use one sometime), but the Green and Gold Eastern Mercantile Fund was a "fund" of Essence, not money ... at least I meant it to be ... anyway, I was kind of confused about how you got from the Green and Gold Fund, which was a charlatan's attempt to get Essence, to a group that funded the hunting of the hiefozil. Maybe you could explain this more in the entry? I dunno, maybe I'm just confused because I wrote the Green and Gold Fund, and I didn't end up getting my intent across properly. Let me know if this is my fault.\\ ~ Shataina

Hee hee. I loooove Terry Pratchett, Shataina, and any comparison to him makes my day. :) I too loved the "Winsome Tzar of Pulchritude." Man, I don't know why I didn't get into this sooner. --Dissolvegirl

Hey Dissolvegirl, Jalan Dai is perfect! Oh, and the Essence financial projects are referred to in Aspect Book: Air, where they served a vital function in maintaining the integrity of the borders of Creation. I take it that you didn't read AB:A, Shaitana? - Quendalon

Er ... no, not that part at least. Drat. I guess it falls to someone to enlighten me as to what they are, so I can fix the Green and Gold Mercantile Fund. (Aww, and I was so proud of it, too.)\\

~ Shataina

You don't have to change the article; we can assume that there were con artists back in the First Age, just like today. As to explaining what they are, basically trade and commerce helped stabilize borderline-Wyld areas; I'll leave it to someone else to go into greater detail, not that there is much detail available; it only comes up in flavor text. - Quendalon

Thanks, Quendalon. I liked yours on Juilant Willow, too-- Dakar being a mortal was something I hadn't thought of. ;) I had to change a reference in my entry on Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/CataphractoiInsensiblis to reflect it was Jubilant Willow and not the mortal, but I don't mind. :) PS: I loved all the ridiculous naughty bits, they were great, and fit in so well with what came before! --Dissolvegirl

Ahh, sorry, Shataina. I seem to be plagued with lack of detail-picking-up-ism.....that isn't even a word. Anyway, I'll alter my entry a little. -Dim

I'd much rather hear about the Starwater Bandits than about the Stalwart Vestibule. And how many Vestibules are there, that you need to call it the "Vestibule, Stalwart"? :) - Quendalon

This being Exalted, the possibilities are endless. Nevertheless, consider the Starwater Bandits phantomed. -Dim

BTW, to Voidstar, I found the idea of you giving Chaste Smile a backphantom regarding Solars skinning peasants alive and wearing their skin to be intensely amusing ;P I'll work on both my phantom and my J entry tonight. --CrownedSun

There seems to be factual discrepencies between my Journal of the Cascade Years entry and the entry for Jubilant Willow and for The Cascade Years. Notably the identity of Decia Dakar rather jars as does the source of the "Cascade" in Cascade Years. I guess the differences are vague enough to be the result of historical error, but I pity whoever is going to write the Decia Dakar entry. Tying all this together is going to be a real challenge! - Voidstate

The problem there was that Quendalon found discrepancies between your entry and the past entries dealing with Decia Dakar, so he did his best to deal with them in Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/JubilantWillow. Then he gave me the Cascade Years to fill in. Since he'd said in Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/JubilantWillow that your writer in Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/JournalCascadeYears had written several takeoffs on Decia Dakar's writings, including a "Journal of the Cascade Years" whose name was a parody of her Journal of the Cascade Years, that meant that I couldn't write that the actual Cascade Years had been named for your guy in Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/JournalCascadeYears, if you get my drift. So I had to come up with a new reason for them to be named the Cascade Years. I did my best.\\

It has occurred to me that whoever actually ended up making Decia Dakar into a phantom might want to make up a different phantom instead. She's got so much already defined about her, I'm not sure how much fun she'll be for whoever actually writes the entry. (I get the impression that this was a problem with my Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/DyingScreamShatteredAdamant phantom, which is why I'm bringing it up.)\\ ~ Shataina

I agree. I reckon it's time to let Dacia Dakar drop. - Voidstate

So, do I get a new D backlink since some evil person stuck me with Dacia Dakar? - Telgar

I just searched to find who linked to it origianlly so I could request they crowbar an alternative D link into their entry but couldn't find which entry phantomed Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/DeciaDakar - anyone know? - Voidstate

The phantom for Decia Dakar is in Jacquerie of Five Kingdoms. The Search box is your friend. - Quendalon

For that matter, the backlink says, "in Jacquerie." Anyway, folks, get off Alec's back; since he accidentally took my dib, I modified his linkage to provide backphantomage. Voidstate, I choose you! Think of something cooler than Decia Dakar for Telgar to do. - willows

You got it. I'll do a D when I next write an entry. I'll try to avoid skinned peasants, too. ;¬) - Voidstate

About the Lexicon/ArtForumArchive/CitadelOfEbonyTorrents.\\ First off, it's "Torments", but the page link says "Torrents". Is there any way to fix this without creating an entirely new page for it?\\ Secondly, the player who created it (EndlessChase) seems to have dropped out ... at least, no new entries for ages, etc. But the entry itself suffers from a time dichotomy which needs fixing. What should we do? Is editing her entry out of the question? Should we do it, but first wait till, say, the end of the game in case EndlessChase comes back? etc.\\ ~ Shataina

Just to be clear, I think that factual errors are up for grabs to correct, in any way the editor feels is appropriate. I did so. I also took the minimal solution and changed the entry's name. - willows

Shataina I really liked your Kuzari entry. Good work. Alabrax

Thank you.  :) I'm not quite satisfied with it yet, though I'm not sure why. (I have this urge to make everything way too complex ....) So it may see some editing, but probably nothing important.\\

~ Shataina

Voidstate: for "The Keeping and Disgarding of All Intention", did you deliberately use "Disgarding" as an invented word, or was that a typo? - Quendalon

I suspect that it was a typo, because the actual link for the entry has "Disregarding" in it.  :)\\

~ Shataina

Typo. Feel free to change it. - Voidstate

The 'K' entries have started out very well! I like both of the posted ones a lot. I hope we'll see more soon, wink wink.  :) - Quendalon

Quendelon - I'd just like to say how much nicer the game is now you are more chilled... Thanks - Voidstate (although the turns are a lot slower now...)

Hey Voidstate, compulsive editor here. I was wondering if you intended the word "egragrarious" to be something else, maybe "gregarious"? Cos "egragrarious" isn't a word, and I was wondering if you're making it up on purpose.\\ I loved the last paragraph. Oh, the mischief that we can play with that! :)\\ ~ Shataina\\ PS: I don't want to be a lexinazi either, but my Lexicon fix is not here ... <twitch twitch> need ... more ... Lexicon entries ... *urk*

I suspect the word he wanted was 'egregious'. And I'll write an entry as soon as I'm inspired... or once someone dibs my Kingswar entry. I can't believe no one wanted that one... *sob* - Quendalon

I've changed it now. I was sure Egregarious was a word... but apparently I am just stupid. :) It's "Xanthippe the Gregararious" now. Althugh Iwas quite tempted to change it to "Xanthippe the Egregious" - anyone who'd give themselves that kind of appellation would be an intreaging character. Especially for a solar. - Voidstate

I'd imagine I feel something like a smoker who hasn't been able to find a cigarette in three days. I pass my time in a haze of misery, twitching and convulsing from need, and only you all can change that!\\ Okay, so that's a, um, slight exaggeration. But more Lexicon entries would make my day ... <hopeful smile>\\ ~ Shataina

I said I was sitting this oen out because people said there weren't enough K entries. I don't want to step on anyone's toes.. So is it safe to say that there are now enough entries? --Dissolvegirl

They've been empty for over a week now so I say go for it. If anyone was desperate to fill them they're had penty of opportunity. - Voidstate

Tried to pack as many references as possible into my Keep-Manse Reem entry. - Quendalon

Yay for Lexicon entries! Quendalon and CrownedSun unquestionably rule!\\ Now I get to take care of my editing reflex.\\ CrownedSun -- "Once again, I journey down another dead end -- some wonder, lost to the ages with the destruction of the infrastructure that made it possible. Though in this case that might have been somewhat fortunate." I don't understand the first sentence (what was lost to the ages? the dead end? isn't kravelt a dead end because it was lost to the ages? and if so, how does that makes sense? etc), and the second is a fragment.\\ ~ Shataina

I mentioned this somewhere else, I don't remember where, but I think it's worth mentioning again ...\\ I think we should start taking it easy on inventing two entirely new phantoms with every entry. If we keep going at the rate we are, we're going to have way too many phantoms, way too fast. I suggest that we start citing other phantoms as at least one of our two phantoms per entry.\\ If anyone disagrees, speak up :)\\ ~ Shataina\\ PS: Great article, AlecAustin!

Shataina: Thanks. -AlecAustin

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