Discussions/MissingLunarCastes

Missing Lunar Castes

Okay. I've been wondering, off and on since I got he Lunar book, What exactly the missing castes were like. As far as I can see it, you can start with the following assumptions:

• The castes all have favoured Attributes, rather than abilities. This seems to be an intrinsic thing, to me.
• The Full Moon an No Moon castse are fine 'as is'. they were locked.
• The Changing moon caste is an amalgam of all three lost castes.
• The charm trees are essentially unchanged. I say 'essentially', because obviously there will have been some evolution. It strikes me, also, that it seems likely a charm to replicate the anima effects of the lost castes is present, as well.

Wokay. Let's look at the core.

• Full Moon - Favoured attribs: Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Anima power: double running and leaping ranges.

• No Moon - Favoured attribs: Perception, Wits, Intelligence. Anima power: Spend essence to reduce sorcery costs.

• Changing Moon - Favoured Attribs: charisma, Manipulation, Appearance. Anima power: look like anyone you are familiar with.

Now, the descriptions given for the lost castes are:

• Waxing Moon - Priests and courtiers, blessed with powers of illusion. Behind the scenes negotiators, subtle where the zenith were Overt. Beautiful and graceful.

• Half Moon - Observers and Tacticians, Their ploys second only to the sidereals, instrumental in sensing their betrayer's plots.

• Waning Moon - Blessed with powers of Stealth above the lunar Norm: they were the classic tricksters and spies, using guile and shapeshifting prowess.

Right. My initial analysis.. I'd say the 'waning' favoured were Appearance, Charisma, and Manipulation. The basic 'changing moon' spread. Anima power.. Hmm. I'd almost say their Anima power was the 'changing moon' one as well, but then why wouldn't the changing moon caste just be described as the waxing moon caste... The Half moon? Perception, manipulation, Charisma. For leading armies and sensing plots.. anima power.. some form of short term precognition? that's more of a sidereal schtick we don't want to tread on. Maybe some connection to.. hmm. Sense-borrowing method? Ever-wary fox technique? Some form of ' sense what's going on around me' effect, I think, or a 'co-ordinate actions around' effect. I'm inclineed to go for the former, based on the blurb. Lastly, the Waning Moon I'd say were Dexterity, Manpulation, Charisma, with some anima power to make shapeshifting cheaper?

Hmph. Im' not quite happy with any of that.. But I throw my thoughts open for discussion. - Molikai

Comments

Maybe the Waning Moon power would let the Lunar take animal shapes reflexively for a scene, but keep the cost the same? -Dorchadas

Wow! I love your conjectures. Here's some possible Anima powers. I tried to think of a few for each, and put my favorite in italics..

• Waxing Moon - See spirits by spending 5 motes. Create an illusion by spending 10 motes and concentrating constantly. Spend 5 motes to invest a statement they make with hidden meaning that those you choose to catch the hidden meaning will infer, without explicit statement.
• Half Moon - See someone's Anima, fully realized, even when it's not active, by spending 5 motes. Pick out a key detail from a crowd of people or objects by spending 5 motes. Detect someone's current immediate intentions or plans by looking at them and spending 10 motes.
• Waning Moon - All shapeshifting Charms cost 2 motes less. Changing coloring to match background by spending 5 motes. Cause anyone nearby to forget that the Waning Moon was present until seeing them again by spending 10 motes.

-TedPro

I had a weird idea a while ago about having the missing castes have one social, one mental, and one physical as their caste attributes. That left the Full Moons as the epitome of physical prowess, the No Moons as the epitome of mental prowess, and each of the lost castes as an amalgam of the two. -EndlessChase

Hmm. A possibility.. Waxing.. Dexterity, Appearance, Wits, Half-moon.. Stamina, perception, charisma? and waning.. Strength, manipulation, intelligence? - Molikai

Waxing as courtiers would definately have Manipulation. Half-Moons as tacticians would require Charisma. Waning as shapeshifters and tricksters would want Appearance. Waxing would have Wits for their courtly wittinesses. Half-Moons would have Intelligence for their ploys. Waning would have Perception to be wary of other tricksters. Waxing would need Stamina for their long hours and boring occasions as well as heavy drinking. Half-Moons would want Strength to better enforce their thoughts. Waxing would require Dexterity to best avoid stepping on the aformentioned loud-stick. No? Eh well.. -- tld

But appearance is a useless attribute, there aren't any charms for it. Unless you custom create some. - Malikai

Uselessness of Appearance, for Lunars and otherwise, is another debate entirely. Can we at least accept that, in the Lunar favored-Attribute schema here and in canon, someone has to get it as favored? (And that it might be useful even without Charms, but that's another can of worms...) Anyway, I would be tempted to swap Manipulation and Appearance -- Waxing Moons are described in the text as radiantly beautiful, if I recall correctly, and Manipulation is the trickster social Attribute. -- AntiVehicleRocket

Is there a discussion page for that? I'll have to go check. - Malikai

I know there was a fairly massive discussion of this surrounding someone's suggested Lunar revisions, but I'll be damned if the wiki is letting me find the page. Blargh. -- AntiVehicleRocket

Now... didn't something like 2/3 of Creation get swallowed by the Wyld? Perhaps 2/3 of the attributes went away as well... -szilard

Ha! I love it. So maybe the attributes for Waxing are Charisma, Zwortiness, and Femtaw, but concepts like Zwortiness and Femtaw got swallowed up by the Wyld and don't really exist anymore. :) -TedPro

• laughs* Interesting. Ok. So, I agree with some of that logic. We're looking at
• Waxing Moon - Manipulation, Wits, Appearance. Anima power? - I favour the 'default' changing moons one.
• Half Moon - Charisma, Intelligence and Strength. Anima power? - Imposing presence, maybe? to give orders, where the dawn give fear? I still like the idea of a perception ability..
• Waning Moon - Appearance, erception, Dex - Cheaper shapehifting.

As fas as the Appearance charm issue goes.. I do wonder what took the place of 'Hide of the Cunning hunter' BEFORE Lunar's had tattos. There /may/ be an appearance tree that vanished, because the tattoos (remember them? Shapeshifting immunity?) interfere.. Just a thought. - Molikai

Now that's interesting... Note that the tattoos don't inhibit your ability to change your own shape... but Appearance is how you are perceived by others. Perhaps the Appearance charms had to do with passive/unconscious changes in your shape based upon the expectations, hopes, fears, etc. of those around you. - szilard

There is something about this idea that makes me very, very happy. I may have to work with it. Oh yes. -- AntiVehicleRocket

My lost caste set up looks something like this: Waxing Moons favor the social attributes and have the current Changing Moon caste power because they were described as masters of illusion. This also presumes that there were illusion powers in the Lunar cascades at some point. Half Moons had Perception, Charisma, and Intelligence. Their caste power was something that let them relay commands better. Waning Moons had Charisma, Manipulation, and Dexterity and some as yet undefined shapeshifting power. ~ Dalassa

An intersting comment to add: Didn't they say that the Solars had helped shape the Lunars into the 3 different castes of the changing moon? Why not just create a charm tree that the Solars in a campaign can start learning, and let them decide and help create the different castes of Lunars? In this case they may not be the same as what they were. Miles

Err.. Not sure at all</> iwhere you got that idea from, Miles. AFAIK, canonically, all lunar castes were defined by Luna, just as all Solar castes were defined by Sol Invictus, and the Sidereal castes by the maidens. But we drift. Restating my summary, More completely, in an effort to spur more commentary, what do people think of the following set of caste types?

• Full Moon - Favoured attribs: Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Anima power: double running and leaping ranges.

• No Moon - Favoured attribs: Perception, Wits, Intelligence. Anima power: Spend essence to reduce sorcery costs.

• <i>Waxing Moon (Priests and courtiers, blessed with powers of illusion. Behind the scenes negotiators, subtle where the zenith were Overt. Beautiful and graceful.) - Manipulation, Wits, Appearance. Anima power? - The 'default' changing moons one, to look like anther entity. A subtle reseence at court, you would never quite be sure who you were talking to: appearance charm tree interacted with their apearance and with their anima ability, perhaps, to subtly twist opinions and attention.

• Half Moon (Observers and Tacticians, Their ploys second only to the sidereals, instrumental in sensing their betrayer's plots.) - Charisma, Intelligence and Strength. Anima power? - Linking the valor of troops nearby, bolstering courage in the face of adversity: forging pac unity?

• Waning Moon (Blessed with powers of Stealth above the lunar Norm: they were the classic tricksters and spies, using guile and shapeshifting prowess.) - Appearance, Perception, Dex - Double expenditure of peripheral essence to supress anima-limitation of shapes they can assume?

- Molikai

I would probably just give one Soc Att per Caste, but that's a minor issue when you get down to it. As for the Waning Moon power: 5 motes to supress the Tell completely for a scene, with no chance to observe it. -- Hapushet

Quoted directly from Dreams of the First Age:

Full Moon: The Full Moons are the warriors of Luna—not generals or soldiers as the Dawn Caste Solars are, but savage berserkers who epitomize Luna’s strength and directness. The Caste Attributes for Full Moons are Strength, Dexterity and Stamina. The anima of a Full Moon allows her to spend five motes to double her speed and leaping distances for a scene and also to double her Strength for the purpose of feats of strength. This effect stacks with other increases, but only by adding a factor equal to the original value, not by continuing to multiply by two. That is, a Lunar who increases her running speed twice moves at three times her normal speed, not four. This power activates automatically when the Full Moon has spent 11+ motes of Peripheral Essence.

Waxing Moon: The Waxing Moons are the priests and courtiers of Luna, elegant wordsmiths and fiery orators who represent the Moon’s power over the emotions. The Caste Attributes for the Waxing Moons are Charisma, Manipulation and Appearance. A Waxing Moon can channel 10 motes of Essence through his anima. Doing so causes it to glow with a silvery light and illuminate an area with a radius of (Essence x 5) yards in all directions. While this power is in effect, the Waxing Moon gains additional lethal and bashing soak equal to his Essence against all attacks from creatures of the Wyld. In addition, he can add his Essence to the minimum number of dice rolled for post-soak damage against creatures of the Wyld. This effect comes into play automatically when the Waxing Moon has spent 11+ motes of Peripheral Essence. For purposes of this effect, “creatures of the Wyld” includes Fair Folk, Fae-Blooded and any being with more than five points of Wyld mutations.

Half Moon: The Half Moons are the judges of Luna, ruthless strategists who advised the Dawn Caste Solars on military tactics and the Zenith Caste Solars on legal policy with equal aplomb. The Caste Attributes for the Half Moons are Charisma, Perception and Intelligence. The Half Moon anima power costs five motes and allows her to add dice equal to her permanent Essence to Join Battle, Join Debate and Join War rolls, and to all rolls to detect unexpected attacks for the remainder of the scene. This power activates automatically when the Half Moon has spent 11+ motes of Peripheral Essence.

Waning Moon: The Waning Moons are sometimes referred to as the rogues of Luna—brash, impudent and cunning tricksters who defy conformity and convention. The Caste Attributes for the Waning Moons are Dexterity, Manipulation and Wits. A Waning Moon’s anima power allows him to spend 10 motes to craft an illusion that makes him appear to be one other person he knows (without the need for stealing that form through the Lunar ritual hunt). The illusion affects all senses, and while protected by it, the Waning Moon can add an amount equal to his Essence to any social action to successfully pose as the person he impersonates or to appear generally trustworthy. Alternatively, this power can be used to bathe the Waning Moon in an array of ever-shifting shadow and silver light that makes him difficult to see clearly. Doing so adds an amount equal to his Essence to the difficulty of any attempts to identify him by sight (assuming the investigator did not see him before this power was activated). If a Waning Moon who is hiding behind an illusion activates his anima banner at any level, it automatically pierces the illusion and the anima power defaults to its obfuscation function. Also, if the Lunar spend 11+ motes of Peripheral Essence, that aspect of the power automatically activates.

No Moon: The No Moons are the thinkers of Luna—scholars and sorcerers who walk alongside the Twilight Solars on the strange roads they travel. The Caste Attributes for the No Moons are Perception, Intelligence and Wits. A No Moon can draw upon the darkness that falls on the nights of the new moon. She must spend at least one mote of Essence and can spend up to twice her permanent Essence in motes. For the remainder of the scene, she will be surrounded by an inky black penumbra that inflicts a -1 external penalty on all attackers who cannot see through darkness. Additionally, the cost of Charms that explicitly require an Occult roll, as well as the cost of any spells cast, are reduced by a number of motes equal to what the No Moon spent to activate her anima (to a minimum of half the Charm or spell’s normal cost). Whenever the No Moon spends 11+ motes of Peripheral Essence, this power activates at full strength (i.e., as if she had spent twice her permanent Essence in motes). -- darkdrake87