Discussions/MissingLunarCastes

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Missing Lunar Castes

Okay. I've been wondering, off and on since I got he Lunar book, What exactly the missing castes were like. As far as I can see it, you can start with the following assumptions:

  • The castes all have favoured Attributes, rather than abilities. This seems to be an intrinsic thing, to me.
  • The Full Moon an No Moon castse are fine 'as is'. they were locked.
  • The Changing moon caste is an amalgam of all three lost castes.
  • The charm trees are essentially unchanged. I say 'essentially', because obviously there will have been some evolution. It strikes me, also, that it seems likely a charm to replicate the anima effects of the lost castes is present, as well.

Wokay. Let's look at the core.

  • Full Moon - Favoured attribs: Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Anima power: double running and leaping ranges.
  • No Moon - Favoured attribs: Perception, Wits, Intelligence. Anima power: Spend essence to reduce sorcery costs.
  • Changing Moon - Favoured Attribs: charisma, Manipulation, Appearance. Anima power: look like anyone you are familiar with.

Now, the descriptions given for the lost castes are:

  • Waxing Moon - Priests and courtiers, blessed with powers of illusion. Behind the scenes negotiators, subtle where the zenith were Overt. Beautiful and graceful.
  • Half Moon - Observers and Tacticians, Their ploys second only to the sidereals, instrumental in sensing their betrayer's plots.
  • Waning Moon - Blessed with powers of Stealth above the lunar Norm: they were the classic tricksters and spies, using guile and shapeshifting prowess.

Right. My initial analysis.. I'd say the 'waning' favoured were Appearance, Charisma, and Manipulation. The basic 'changing moon' spread. Anima power.. Hmm. I'd almost say their Anima power was the 'changing moon' one as well, but then why wouldn't the changing moon caste just be described as the waxing moon caste... The Half moon? Perception, manipulation, Charisma. For leading armies and sensing plots.. anima power.. some form of short term precognition? that's more of a sidereal schtick we don't want to tread on. Maybe some connection to.. hmm. Sense-borrowing method? Ever-wary fox technique? Some form of ' sense what's going on around me' effect, I think, or a 'co-ordinate actions around' effect. I'm inclineed to go for the former, based on the blurb. Lastly, the Waning Moon I'd say were Dexterity, Manpulation, Charisma, with some anima power to make shapeshifting cheaper?

Hmph. Im' not quite happy with any of that.. But I throw my thoughts open for discussion. - Molikai

Comments

Maybe the Waning Moon power would let the Lunar take animal shapes reflexively for a scene, but keep the cost the same? -Dorchadas

Wow! I love your conjectures. Here's some possible Anima powers. I tried to think of a few for each, and put my favorite in italics..

  • Waxing Moon - See spirits by spending 5 motes. Create an illusion by spending 10 motes and concentrating constantly. Spend 5 motes to invest a statement they make with hidden meaning that those you choose to catch the hidden meaning will infer, without explicit statement.
  • Half Moon - See someone's Anima, fully realized, even when it's not active, by spending 5 motes. Pick out a key detail from a crowd of people or objects by spending 5 motes. Detect someone's current immediate intentions or plans by looking at them and spending 10 motes.
  • Waning Moon - All shapeshifting Charms cost 2 motes less. Changing coloring to match background by spending 5 motes. Cause anyone nearby to forget that the Waning Moon was present until seeing them again by spending 10 motes.

-TedPro

I had a weird idea a while ago about having the missing castes have one social, one mental, and one physical as their caste attributes. That left the Full Moons as the epitome of physical prowess, the No Moons as the epitome of mental prowess, and each of the lost castes as an amalgam of the two. -EndlessChase

Hmm. A possibility.. Waxing.. Dexterity, Appearance, Wits, Half-moon.. Stamina, perception, charisma? and waning.. Strength, manipulation, intelligence? - Molikai

Waxing as courtiers would definately have Manipulation. Half-Moons as tacticians would require Charisma. Waning as shapeshifters and tricksters would want Appearance. Waxing would have Wits for their courtly wittinesses. Half-Moons would have Intelligence for their ploys. Waning would have Perception to be wary of other tricksters. Waxing would need Stamina for their long hours and boring occasions as well as heavy drinking. Half-Moons would want Strength to better enforce their thoughts. Waxing would require Dexterity to best avoid stepping on the aformentioned loud-stick. No? Eh well.. -- tld

But appearance is a useless attribute, there aren't any charms for it. Unless you custom create some. - Malikai
Uselessness of Appearance, for Lunars and otherwise, is another debate entirely. Can we at least accept that, in the Lunar favored-Attribute schema here and in canon, someone has to get it as favored? (And that it might be useful even without Charms, but that's another can of worms...) Anyway, I would be tempted to swap Manipulation and Appearance -- Waxing Moons are described in the text as radiantly beautiful, if I recall correctly, and Manipulation is the trickster social Attribute. -- AntiVehicleRocket
Is there a discussion page for that? I'll have to go check. - Malikai
I know there was a fairly massive discussion of this surrounding someone's suggested Lunar revisions, but I'll be damned if the wiki is letting me find the page. Blargh. -- AntiVehicleRocket

Now... didn't something like 2/3 of Creation get swallowed by the Wyld? Perhaps 2/3 of the attributes went away as well... -szilard

Ha! I love it. So maybe the attributes for Waxing are Charisma, Zwortiness, and Femtaw, but concepts like Zwortiness and Femtaw got swallowed up by the Wyld and don't really exist anymore. :) -TedPro
  • laughs* Interesting. Ok. So, I agree with some of that logic. We're looking at
  • Waxing Moon - Manipulation, Wits, Appearance. Anima power? - I favour the 'default' changing moons one.
  • Half Moon - Charisma, Intelligence and Strength. Anima power? - Imposing presence, maybe? to give orders, where the dawn give fear? I still like the idea of a perception ability..
  • Waning Moon - Appearance, erception, Dex - Cheaper shapehifting.

As fas as the Appearance charm issue goes.. I do wonder what took the place of 'Hide of the Cunning hunter' BEFORE Lunar's had tattos. There /may/ be an appearance tree that vanished, because the tattoos (remember them? Shapeshifting immunity?) interfere.. Just a thought. - Molikai

Now that's interesting... Note that the tattoos don't inhibit your ability to change your own shape... but Appearance is how you are perceived by others. Perhaps the Appearance charms had to do with passive/unconscious changes in your shape based upon the expectations, hopes, fears, etc. of those around you. - szilard
There is something about this idea that makes me very, very happy. I may have to work with it. Oh yes. -- AntiVehicleRocket

My lost caste set up looks something like this: Waxing Moons favor the social attributes and have the current Changing Moon caste power because they were described as masters of illusion. This also presumes that there were illusion powers in the Lunar cascades at some point. Half Moons had Perception, Charisma, and Intelligence. Their caste power was something that let them relay commands better. Waning Moons had Charisma, Manipulation, and Dexterity and some as yet undefined shapeshifting power. ~ Dalassa

An intersting comment to add: Didn't they say that the Solars had helped shape the Lunars into the 3 different castes of the changing moon? Why not just create a charm tree that the Solars in a campaign can start learning, and let them decide and help create the different castes of Lunars? In this case they may not be the same as what they were. Miles


Err.. Not sure at all</> iwhere you got that idea from, Miles. AFAIK, canonically, all lunar castes were defined by Luna, just as all Solar castes were defined by Sol Invictus, and the Sidereal castes by the maidens. But we drift. Restating my summary, More completely, in an effort to spur more commentary, what do people think of the following set of caste types?
  • Full Moon - Favoured attribs: Strength, Dexterity, Stamina, Anima power: double running and leaping ranges.
  • No Moon - Favoured attribs: Perception, Wits, Intelligence. Anima power: Spend essence to reduce sorcery costs.
  • <i>Waxing Moon (Priests and courtiers, blessed with powers of illusion. Behind the scenes negotiators, subtle where the zenith were Overt. Beautiful and graceful.) - Manipulation, Wits, Appearance. Anima power? - The 'default' changing moons one, to look like anther entity. A subtle reseence at court, you would never quite be sure who you were talking to: appearance charm tree interacted with their apearance and with their anima ability, perhaps, to subtly twist opinions and attention.
  • Half Moon (Observers and Tacticians, Their ploys second only to the sidereals, instrumental in sensing their betrayer's plots.) - Charisma, Intelligence and Strength. Anima power? - Linking the valor of troops nearby, bolstering courage in the face of adversity: forging pac unity?
  • Waning Moon (Blessed with powers of Stealth above the lunar Norm: they were the classic tricksters and spies, using guile and shapeshifting prowess.) - Appearance, Perception, Dex - Double expenditure of peripheral essence to supress anima-limitation of shapes they can assume?

- Molikai

I would probably just give one Soc Att per Caste, but that's a minor issue when you get down to it. As for the Waning Moon power: 5 motes to supress the Tell completely for a scene, with no chance to observe it. -- Hapushet

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