Difference between revisions of "CrunchRelay"

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= Crunch Relay =
 
= Crunch Relay =
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See also: [[FluffRelay]]
 
  
 
This is a game in which you create new crunch! Artifacts, Charms, whatever.
 
This is a game in which you create new crunch! Artifacts, Charms, whatever.
  
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It's like a relay race; you run a small part of it and pass over the baton. That's the organising principle from which all of the more specific practices below arise.
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Here is how to play, for artifacts, hearthstones, and other dot-ranked things.
 +
* One person starts by stating a theme, and providing a one-dot item related to it.
 +
* The next person makes up a two-dot item related to the theme.
 +
* The third person makes up a three-dot, the fourth a four-dot, and the fifth a five-dot.
 +
* The fifth person chooses a new theme.
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* The sixth person provides a one-dot related to the new theme, and the progression starts over. When you start a new theme, please archive the old one in a subpage.
  
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Here's the general schema of how to play:
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There's nothing wrong with more than one person giving an entry for each level. But no one should give more than one for each level. If multiple five-dots are submitted, choice of new theme should probably go to the first person to post.
  
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# Someone has set a theme for the relay. That person ''may'' also post the first relay-item, but he is not required to.
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See also: FluffRelay
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# Another person posts the next item.
 
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# Repeat 2 until the relay reaches its end. "Another person" means "someone different from the previous person"; generally it's cool to post a couple of times in a relay as long as you space it out.
 
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# The person posting the last relay item has some privileges and responsibilities. He should '''archive the relay,''' and can choose between '''setting the next theme''' or '''designating someone to set a theme.'''
 
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# Whenever you post an item, remember to sign it with your wiki username after the title, so we know who to discuss with when commenting.
 
  
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The "theme" is generally a short phrase. I'm gonna call this a "seed" from now on, to make it easier to refer to. You can interpret the seed as liberally as you like; if it's "Agape", then you're free to write about openmouthed surprise or a specific form of love.
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=== ArtifactRelay ===
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The first person states a theme, and provides a one-dot artifact. Subsequent players provide [[artifacts]] of increasing rank. The player who provides the first five-dot artifact chooses a new theme.  
  
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== The Relays ==
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=== CharmRelay ===
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=== [[ArtifactRelay]], [[HearthstoneRelay]] & [[ThaumaturgyRelay]] ===
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The first person states a theme, a splat, and provides a Charm. Subsequent players provide [[Charms]] which are part of the same tree as the first. The person who provides the fifth Charm chooses a new theme.
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These Relays are 5 items long; the first item is the level-1 item (or ritual) and they increase.
 
  
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The theme for one of these relays is generally nothing but a seed, but you may specify a specific level (N[[/A]], for instance) or something else as well (Warstrider weapons, made of red jade, the Roseblack's property)...
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=== MartialArtsRelay ===
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The first person states a theme, a level of initiation, and a Charm.  He may optionally specify the number of charms in the tree.  Subsequent players provide [[Charms]] which are part of the same MartialArts style as the first.  Subsequent Charms may fill any position in the tree, though so far it has been the practice to reserve the ultimate technique for the final Charm.
  
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'''Timing Issues:''' There's nothing wrong with more than one person giving an entry for each level. But no one should give more than one for each level. If multiple five-dots are submitted, choice of new theme should probably go to the first person to post.
+
=== HearthstoneRelay ===
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The first person states a theme, and provides a one-dot HearthStone. Subsequent players provide stones of increasing rank. The player who provides the first five-dot stone chooses a new theme.  
  
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:I think it's pretty neat to make items within a theme that go together, and interact in fun ways, but it's by no means mandatory or even expected. - [[willows]]
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=== SpellRelay ===
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The first person chooses a theme, and provides a spell of the Terrestrial or Shadowlands Circle. Subsequent players provide spells of the remaining five circles (of both [[Necromancy]] and [[Sorcery]]), with the sixth player also determining the new theme.
  
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=== [[CharmRelay]] ===
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=== ThaumaturgyRelay ===
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[[CharmRelay]]s are 5 Charms long. The Charms should be connected in a tree.
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The first person states a theme, and provides a level one ritual. Subsequent players provide [[rituals]] of increasing rank. The player who provides the level five ritual chooses a new theme.  
  
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The theme for a [[CharmRelay]] should, in addition to the seed, specify its heritage (or explicitly defer that decision to the first poster). We don't define "Charm" strictly; this is also the Relay for Arcanoi, Paths, &c. You ''can,'' but don't have to, specify a Trait basis for the Charms; you can also specify how advanced (or not-advanced) the Charms in question should be.
 
  
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You can also set the heritage as "multiple types" or "charms for this specific entity", for instance. Multiple type Charms obviously don't have to be in the same tree; specific-entity Charms ''can,'' but I wouldn't necessarily mandate it. (See [[CharmRelay/DesperateSurvival]], [[CharmRelay/UnderstandingBlood]].)
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== Comments ==
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:I think "mixed type" relays are less fun because it's much harder to riff off other peoples' ideas. - [[willows]]
+
 
 +
* [[Quendalon]] suggests a ThaumaturgyRelay for rituals (which are ranked on a one-to-five scale).
 +
: Started it.  Will post content tonight. --TedPro
 +
 
 +
Themes can be wordy or succinct, but should always be fairly broad.
 +
 
 +
I think that the best way to start a new CrunchRelay is simply to do so, laying out the skeletal structure of the relay and its theme and first item. I'd be interested in participating in several of these, but at the moment I'm not in a state to be starting new themes. - [[willows]]
 +
 
 +
Just something similar to take a look at: [[Miedvied/Trades | Character Concept Trading ]]. -- [[Miedvied]]
 +
 
 +
I have a suggestion, brought about by a problem I've seen in a couple of the current relays.
 +
 
 +
There are times when someone posts a bit of crunch that doesn't quite fit in its designated power-level.  I.E. someone posts a 3-dot artifact that's as powerful as a 4-dot.  The usual solution is to tone it down so it fits in the slot.  I don't think this is ideal.
 +
 
 +
I'm sure that we can all agree that the cardinal rule of Exalted is, "coolness above all!" (Except for GUTB, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't frequent the Wiki.)  One of the things that makes Exalted Exalted is the way this rule manifests in the game's crunchy bits.  It's not just a +4 Frost Brand Greatsword, it's the Tooth of the Blue Skulking Bear, forged in the icy flames of the Aerial Palace!  The <i>idea</i> behind something is at least as important as the in-game effect.  There are times when powering-down something forces a change that takes away something that was part of the original vision.  It's like a movie being edited for time/content so it can be shown on TV.  It makes the item <i>less cool.</i>
 +
 
 +
With that in mind, I have a proposition.  If someone posts a crunchy bit that is deemed too powerful, the creator of said crunchy bit should be allowed to bump up its rating, saving it for later.  Someone else can then fill the slot left by this "promotion."  I'm sure that it wouldn't break the relay too badly, but I want to know the opinion of my fellow Wikizens. -- [[Sparrowhawk]]
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 +
:This has already been done in HearthstoneRelay; [[willows]] and I switched our stones' places in the "justice" relay because mine was deemed too weak, and his too powerful._[[Ikselam]]
  
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It's kinda lame to speedbump prior Charms in a Relay; try to design after Dragonblooded Charms, going off on slight tangents, rather than simply improving upon the functionality of what preceded you.
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Something I'd love to see, Relay-wise, would be Spell and Oath relays for the new Fair Folk stuff. Would other people be into that, too?  -TedPro
  
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Charm trees generally grow upward in this Relay. However, if the Relay begins branching backward or something, that's okay; simply use the numbering procedure outlined below in [[MartialArtsRelay]].
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:Arrrgh. Fairfolk crunch maeks yuo dei!!!1. Ahem. Sorry... I'll need another month or so to comprehend them, so not me. It sounds like a good idea though, especially for their weird spell-thingies. <br> -- [[Darloth]]
  
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=== [[MartialArtsRelay]] ===
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:I would be fascinated by Spell or Oath relays, although I couldn't contribute to them. ^_^;; ~ <i>[[G]]</i>
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One of these Relays is as long as the theme specifies. The Charms are connected in a Martial Arts style. We assume that it's of standard structure (short introductory portion, Form, advanced portion, pinnacle) unless the theme specifies some other.
 
  
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The theme for a [[MartialArtsRelay]] should specify the art's circle as well as a seed. It should also specify the art's length, or a point at which the relay is considered concluded. The theme doesn't generally include things such as armour compatibility or form weapons, but these could conceivably be used as theme elements (e.g., "Ninja Tathagata: This style uses shurikens and emphasises universal compassion").
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:Can we just fold those into ArtifactRelay? Like, you can post a behemoth, glamour spell, or adjuration as an Artifact of that rank. That way, we don't ''force'' people to use the mechanics if they don't have access to or don't know them. This is my problem with Thaumrelay - I don't like or understand thaum well enough to help keep it going, and additional fragmentation of the relays into splatbook-specific mechanics only exacerbates that. - [[willows]]
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:Experience shows that 7 to 8 Charms is the upper limit for continued interest in a theme, barring at least one ''extremely'' interested participant. For styles that should, by concept, be very large, the theme should probably set a point at which the relay ends, rather than requiring style completion. - [[willows]]
 
  
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It's not necessary to write the Charms for such a Relay in strict bottom-up order; often, it helps the Relay to have cohesion if the Form is written quite early in the style. It's sometimes difficult to design a Form that interacts positively with the other Charms if very many of them are posed before the Form appears. '''The contributor who writes the Form should also specify the form weaponry and armour interaction of the style; post these in the theme heading, so they are easy to find.'''
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:Well... I don't really see how it's 'forcing' someone. I mean, I've posted on a couple Relays, and I've never had someone come up behind me and go, "Post on this Relay right now or else!" with my protests of non-understanding ignored as they grab my hands and cause me to bang out a hasty 2-dot Hearthstone.
  
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For historical purposes, a Charm in this Relay should be numbered (manually, don't use #); then, if the Relay develops in a complex way, one can trace its development once the Relay is completed and the Charms are rearranged to follow standard order. Re-ordering the Charms properly is one of the responsibilities of the last poster.
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:Less facetiously, I don't really understand the desire to keep the Relays totally seperate.  Glamour artifacts might be an acceptable valid post on a GlamourRelay, but also possess their own- if people don't wish to update GlamourRelay often, it will simply... not... be... uh, updated much.  So... .02&[[Arafelis]]
  
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The same is true for capstones; sometimes these are good for setting a development path for the lesser Charms of the style.
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::Yeah, um, basically... There isn't a lot of activity on the Relays as much as it is, and I think opening the existing categories to more diversity is a better way to enliven them (I like the Relays better when I am not the only one posting) than creating new, slow Relays is. I mean, look how thaumrelay limps along. It's like the redheaded stepchild of the category; even the benighted SpellRelay does better in activity terms. (I think they'd have done better to be one MagicRelay) - [[willows]]
  
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(Back in the day, this was a part of [[CharmRelay]], and later separated because of its length and structure issues.)
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:::Opening existing categories to greater diversity is not mutually incompatable with creating more categories!  Relays do not currently overlap much, but that's not inherent to their structure.  -If you want more activity, incidentally, what I'd reccomend is to change the order in which Relay objects are posted.  Rather than progressing in linear order from 1 dot to 5, make it so that people can post at any level that does not already have an object (there's nothing wrong with posting new artis for the same slot if one has a really good idea, but it's not precisely the point of Relays).  The first person who fills the last slot would get to post a new theme.
  
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=== [[SpellRelay]] ===
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:::And yes, some Relays will be always be 'specialty intrest only.'  It's unlikely I'll ever post a Charm in MA relay unless I get an awesome idea or am trying to make fun of something.  It's unlikely most players will ever even consider thaumaturgy unless they're in a god-blooded game (and even then, not terribly much).  I don't see how it follows that including these little-used Relays as part of other Relays will increase activity... they'll just be more or less forgotten.  - [[Arafelis]]
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These contain between 6 and 8 spells.
 
  
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A [[SpellRelay]] proceeds in circles, starting at the First Circle and ascending. Within each circle, a sorcerous and necromantic spell must be present, each from a different contributor. The first and second circles may optionally contain an appropriate protocol. If the next circle is begun, then the opportunity to include one of these protocols is lost. The Relay finishes upon completion of the Third Circle.
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As an experiment I modified the HearthstoneRelay structure slightly. I added a basic template and all the pages now start as part of the Archives, with the main page being a redirect to the current relay. This makes switching relays slighly easier(You just copy/paste the template into a new page off the archive and change the redirect). This allows one to index hearthstone as they are created(which was hard before, the page in the archives wasn't created till the relay was done, so only the person who swiched them could reasonably index the objects). -FlowsLikeBits
  
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The reason for this is that autobotian material is not sufficiently widespread to make it mandatory; it would introduce undesirable delays, but has a natural place in the [[SpellRelay]] and excluding it entirely would be a needless snubbing of autobot fans.
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As said in the FluffRelay, I had the idea to add a Monster Relay, where creatures (but also mortals or spirits) are fleshed out to throw at your players. I'll think it would stick better to the CrunchRelay, as the monsters and creatures should get stats. If you consent, I'll open the Monster Relay. - [[Jiba]]
  
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== Comments ==
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: You have mine, for one, but be gentle. It's my first time...DeathBySurfeit
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[[/Archive]]
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 +
About SpellRelay. Where do Weavings go to? Should they count as First and Second Circle spells? - sssssz
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 +
I'm not sure... they probably count man-machine as First, and god-machine as Second, since that's apparently what they're equivalent to (since you can counter a man-machine with a sapphire counter, one higher, same as with necromancy) but they're typically more powerful than a spell of those circles. They do vary a lot more in power though. <Br> -- [[Darloth]]
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 +
:The best example I heard is that Man-Machine Protocols are spell circle 1.5, and God-Machine Protocols are Spell Circle 2.5. In my opinion they should be in the spell relay, but are not strictly required to progress the relay itself. So if someone finishes a relay and no-one made any Man-Machine or God-Machine protocols for the relay, then there shouldn't be any tears over it. However, if someone does goto the trouble (like myself assuredly ;) to make Protocols, then more power to them. - ArabianNinja

Revision as of 02:39, 21 April 2006

Crunch Relay

This is a game in which you create new crunch! Artifacts, Charms, whatever.

Here is how to play, for artifacts, hearthstones, and other dot-ranked things.

  • One person starts by stating a theme, and providing a one-dot item related to it.
  • The next person makes up a two-dot item related to the theme.
  • The third person makes up a three-dot, the fourth a four-dot, and the fifth a five-dot.
  • The fifth person chooses a new theme.
  • The sixth person provides a one-dot related to the new theme, and the progression starts over. When you start a new theme, please archive the old one in a subpage.

There's nothing wrong with more than one person giving an entry for each level. But no one should give more than one for each level. If multiple five-dots are submitted, choice of new theme should probably go to the first person to post.

See also: FluffRelay

ArtifactRelay

The first person states a theme, and provides a one-dot artifact. Subsequent players provide artifacts of increasing rank. The player who provides the first five-dot artifact chooses a new theme.

CharmRelay

The first person states a theme, a splat, and provides a Charm. Subsequent players provide Charms which are part of the same tree as the first. The person who provides the fifth Charm chooses a new theme.

MartialArtsRelay

The first person states a theme, a level of initiation, and a Charm. He may optionally specify the number of charms in the tree. Subsequent players provide Charms which are part of the same MartialArts style as the first. Subsequent Charms may fill any position in the tree, though so far it has been the practice to reserve the ultimate technique for the final Charm.

HearthstoneRelay

The first person states a theme, and provides a one-dot HearthStone. Subsequent players provide stones of increasing rank. The player who provides the first five-dot stone chooses a new theme.

SpellRelay

The first person chooses a theme, and provides a spell of the Terrestrial or Shadowlands Circle. Subsequent players provide spells of the remaining five circles (of both Necromancy and Sorcery), with the sixth player also determining the new theme.

ThaumaturgyRelay

The first person states a theme, and provides a level one ritual. Subsequent players provide rituals of increasing rank. The player who provides the level five ritual chooses a new theme.


Comments

  • Quendalon suggests a ThaumaturgyRelay for rituals (which are ranked on a one-to-five scale).
Started it. Will post content tonight. --TedPro

Themes can be wordy or succinct, but should always be fairly broad.

I think that the best way to start a new CrunchRelay is simply to do so, laying out the skeletal structure of the relay and its theme and first item. I'd be interested in participating in several of these, but at the moment I'm not in a state to be starting new themes. - willows

Just something similar to take a look at: Character Concept Trading . -- Miedvied

I have a suggestion, brought about by a problem I've seen in a couple of the current relays.

There are times when someone posts a bit of crunch that doesn't quite fit in its designated power-level. I.E. someone posts a 3-dot artifact that's as powerful as a 4-dot. The usual solution is to tone it down so it fits in the slot. I don't think this is ideal.

I'm sure that we can all agree that the cardinal rule of Exalted is, "coolness above all!" (Except for GUTB, but I'm pretty sure he doesn't frequent the Wiki.) One of the things that makes Exalted Exalted is the way this rule manifests in the game's crunchy bits. It's not just a +4 Frost Brand Greatsword, it's the Tooth of the Blue Skulking Bear, forged in the icy flames of the Aerial Palace! The idea behind something is at least as important as the in-game effect. There are times when powering-down something forces a change that takes away something that was part of the original vision. It's like a movie being edited for time/content so it can be shown on TV. It makes the item less cool.

With that in mind, I have a proposition. If someone posts a crunchy bit that is deemed too powerful, the creator of said crunchy bit should be allowed to bump up its rating, saving it for later. Someone else can then fill the slot left by this "promotion." I'm sure that it wouldn't break the relay too badly, but I want to know the opinion of my fellow Wikizens. -- Sparrowhawk

This has already been done in HearthstoneRelay; willows and I switched our stones' places in the "justice" relay because mine was deemed too weak, and his too powerful._Ikselam

Something I'd love to see, Relay-wise, would be Spell and Oath relays for the new Fair Folk stuff. Would other people be into that, too? -TedPro

Arrrgh. Fairfolk crunch maeks yuo dei!!!1. Ahem. Sorry... I'll need another month or so to comprehend them, so not me. It sounds like a good idea though, especially for their weird spell-thingies.
-- Darloth
I would be fascinated by Spell or Oath relays, although I couldn't contribute to them. ^_^;; ~ G
Can we just fold those into ArtifactRelay? Like, you can post a behemoth, glamour spell, or adjuration as an Artifact of that rank. That way, we don't force people to use the mechanics if they don't have access to or don't know them. This is my problem with Thaumrelay - I don't like or understand thaum well enough to help keep it going, and additional fragmentation of the relays into splatbook-specific mechanics only exacerbates that. - willows
Well... I don't really see how it's 'forcing' someone. I mean, I've posted on a couple Relays, and I've never had someone come up behind me and go, "Post on this Relay right now or else!" with my protests of non-understanding ignored as they grab my hands and cause me to bang out a hasty 2-dot Hearthstone.
Less facetiously, I don't really understand the desire to keep the Relays totally seperate. Glamour artifacts might be an acceptable valid post on a GlamourRelay, but also possess their own- if people don't wish to update GlamourRelay often, it will simply... not... be... uh, updated much. So... .02&Arafelis
Yeah, um, basically... There isn't a lot of activity on the Relays as much as it is, and I think opening the existing categories to more diversity is a better way to enliven them (I like the Relays better when I am not the only one posting) than creating new, slow Relays is. I mean, look how thaumrelay limps along. It's like the redheaded stepchild of the category; even the benighted SpellRelay does better in activity terms. (I think they'd have done better to be one MagicRelay) - willows
Opening existing categories to greater diversity is not mutually incompatable with creating more categories! Relays do not currently overlap much, but that's not inherent to their structure. -If you want more activity, incidentally, what I'd reccomend is to change the order in which Relay objects are posted. Rather than progressing in linear order from 1 dot to 5, make it so that people can post at any level that does not already have an object (there's nothing wrong with posting new artis for the same slot if one has a really good idea, but it's not precisely the point of Relays). The first person who fills the last slot would get to post a new theme.
And yes, some Relays will be always be 'specialty intrest only.' It's unlikely I'll ever post a Charm in MA relay unless I get an awesome idea or am trying to make fun of something. It's unlikely most players will ever even consider thaumaturgy unless they're in a god-blooded game (and even then, not terribly much). I don't see how it follows that including these little-used Relays as part of other Relays will increase activity... they'll just be more or less forgotten. - Arafelis

As an experiment I modified the HearthstoneRelay structure slightly. I added a basic template and all the pages now start as part of the Archives, with the main page being a redirect to the current relay. This makes switching relays slighly easier(You just copy/paste the template into a new page off the archive and change the redirect). This allows one to index hearthstone as they are created(which was hard before, the page in the archives wasn't created till the relay was done, so only the person who swiched them could reasonably index the objects). -FlowsLikeBits

As said in the FluffRelay, I had the idea to add a Monster Relay, where creatures (but also mortals or spirits) are fleshed out to throw at your players. I'll think it would stick better to the CrunchRelay, as the monsters and creatures should get stats. If you consent, I'll open the Monster Relay. - Jiba

You have mine, for one, but be gentle. It's my first time...DeathBySurfeit

About SpellRelay. Where do Weavings go to? Should they count as First and Second Circle spells? - sssssz

I'm not sure... they probably count man-machine as First, and god-machine as Second, since that's apparently what they're equivalent to (since you can counter a man-machine with a sapphire counter, one higher, same as with necromancy) but they're typically more powerful than a spell of those circles. They do vary a lot more in power though.
-- Darloth

The best example I heard is that Man-Machine Protocols are spell circle 1.5, and God-Machine Protocols are Spell Circle 2.5. In my opinion they should be in the spell relay, but are not strictly required to progress the relay itself. So if someone finishes a relay and no-one made any Man-Machine or God-Machine protocols for the relay, then there shouldn't be any tears over it. However, if someone does goto the trouble (like myself assuredly ;) to make Protocols, then more power to them. - ArabianNinja
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