Difference between revisions of "Discussions/Craft"
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I resolved this by saying that Crafts is as stupidly broad as Melee, and covers every form of Craftwork in Creation. You can take a Speciality in a particular Craft to be good at just that Craft in particular. | I resolved this by saying that Crafts is as stupidly broad as Melee, and covers every form of Craftwork in Creation. You can take a Speciality in a particular Craft to be good at just that Craft in particular. | ||
| − | No more absured than 'I've practiced twelve hours a day with a sword for ten years, so spears are totally intuitive to me'. And it makes Twillights with odd Craft specialities more likely, in my experience, which is cool :) - DariusSolluman | + | No more absured than 'I've practiced twelve hours a day with a sword for ten years, so spears are totally intuitive to me'. And it makes Twillights with odd Craft specialities more likely, in my experience, which is cool :) - [[DariusSolluman]] |
<i>Looks like a reasonable solution, DS. If you're going to allow Performance to cover oratory, debate, dance, song, and an unlimited number of musical instruments, how much of a jump is for Crafts to cover painting, sculpture, woodworking and smithcraft? - [[Quendalon]]</i>) | <i>Looks like a reasonable solution, DS. If you're going to allow Performance to cover oratory, debate, dance, song, and an unlimited number of musical instruments, how much of a jump is for Crafts to cover painting, sculpture, woodworking and smithcraft? - [[Quendalon]]</i>) | ||
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<i>It's the way I use in my sidereal game too, Kraken. And convinced my Storyteller in DB game to do that as well (got an Earth Aspected Dynast with 5 in Craft who works as a sapper and warfare engines in the Legion). </i> - [[Etrangere]] | <i>It's the way I use in my sidereal game too, Kraken. And convinced my Storyteller in DB game to do that as well (got an Earth Aspected Dynast with 5 in Craft who works as a sapper and warfare engines in the Legion). </i> - [[Etrangere]] | ||
| − | Another alternative I thought of on my way home from work- anything you don't have a specalty in, you have a -2 penelty at doing. And that'd be a generalized rule, not a specific instance of Craft. Help get Specialties spread out, and make geniune specialists both stand out more and be more rare. OTOH, I'm uncertain as to the coolness of the idea. :) - DariusSolluman | + | Another alternative I thought of on my way home from work- anything you don't have a specalty in, you have a -2 penelty at doing. And that'd be a generalized rule, not a specific instance of Craft. Help get Specialties spread out, and make geniune specialists both stand out more and be more rare. OTOH, I'm uncertain as to the coolness of the idea. :) - [[DariusSolluman]] |
I think the idea of making Crafts like Linguistics makes a whole lotta sense... in fact, now that y'all mention it, that might not be a bad idea for Melee and Performance, too. Though, I doubt that'd fly too well with the Melee players... | I think the idea of making Crafts like Linguistics makes a whole lotta sense... in fact, now that y'all mention it, that might not be a bad idea for Melee and Performance, too. Though, I doubt that'd fly too well with the Melee players... | ||
~~[[Gorol]] | ~~[[Gorol]] | ||
| − | I just like Crafts, Performance, Sail and such as all-encompassing abilities. If you break them down, it becomes hard to make characters like, say, Han Solo who can fly ANYTHING. Or the all-around MegaMechanic who can fix ANYTHING. Those people don't have Pilot (Frighters), Pilot (Fighters), Pilot (Crusiers), etc...they have Pilot (Everything!) Which is FAR more heroic and cool. - [[Telgar]] | + | I just like Crafts, Performance, Sail and such as all-encompassing abilities. If you break them down, it becomes hard to make characters like, say, Han Solo who can fly ANYTHING. Or the all-around [[MegaMechanic]] who can fix ANYTHING. Those people don't have Pilot (Frighters), Pilot (Fighters), Pilot (Crusiers), etc...they have Pilot (Everything!) Which is FAR more heroic and cool. - [[Telgar]] |
| − | I play Linguistics as "you can communicate with X if you succeed at a Linguistics roll." I think you could do the same with Craft, "you can think of a way to make X if you succeed at a standard-difficulty Craft roll", and then you make all those other rolls to figure out how well you did it. - FourWillowsWeeping | + | I play Linguistics as "you can communicate with X if you succeed at a Linguistics roll." I think you could do the same with Craft, "you can think of a way to make X if you succeed at a standard-difficulty Craft roll", and then you make all those other rolls to figure out how well you did it. - [[FourWillowsWeeping]] |
Craft can cover an awful of ground. "I can kick ass with swords therefore I can kick ass with spears." is far less of a mental stretch for me than "I can forge metal items therefore I can make battleplans and write calligraphy." Importantly, the distinctions one could make in Melee only cover different ways of achieving the same goal while the distinctions one makes in Craft cover very different goals. However, Exalted hand-waves annoying details, so my solution is that you get one area of expertise for free in Craft, and you can buy additional ones for the same cost as a specialty (even though they're not specialties). All your areas of expertise share the same Craft rating, similar to the way some skills work in Deadlands.\\ | Craft can cover an awful of ground. "I can kick ass with swords therefore I can kick ass with spears." is far less of a mental stretch for me than "I can forge metal items therefore I can make battleplans and write calligraphy." Importantly, the distinctions one could make in Melee only cover different ways of achieving the same goal while the distinctions one makes in Craft cover very different goals. However, Exalted hand-waves annoying details, so my solution is that you get one area of expertise for free in Craft, and you can buy additional ones for the same cost as a specialty (even though they're not specialties). All your areas of expertise share the same Craft rating, similar to the way some skills work in Deadlands.\\ | ||
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I'd propose some kind of...compromise. Craft itself covers pretty much everything; it's a huge wide category that covers making armor, weapons, pretty much constructing anything you might imagine. Same time, crafts like the First Age splits offered in Outcaste exist, Fate is a separate Craft, and other little details. I'd perhaps split the basic Craft skill into a few smaller crafts and add some things to the others. Fate probably covers "weaving" for instance:D Basically, I think the problem has grown to an extent beyond just saying "Craft covers everything."\\ | I'd propose some kind of...compromise. Craft itself covers pretty much everything; it's a huge wide category that covers making armor, weapons, pretty much constructing anything you might imagine. Same time, crafts like the First Age splits offered in Outcaste exist, Fate is a separate Craft, and other little details. I'd perhaps split the basic Craft skill into a few smaller crafts and add some things to the others. Fate probably covers "weaving" for instance:D Basically, I think the problem has grown to an extent beyond just saying "Craft covers everything."\\ | ||
| − | -- CrownedSun | + | -- [[CrownedSun]] |
---- | ---- | ||
Latest revision as of 01:15, 6 April 2010
OK, so for some examples, I can have:
- Craft (Fate)
- Craft (Caligraphy)
- Craft (Metalworking)
- Craft (Fletching)
- Craft (Chandlery)
So, they all accumulate dots at the same rate, but the scopes are entirely different. I can't make this make sense to me, 'cos it means that you can use one dot's worth of experience to learn how to do a large-scope thing (Metalworking) as easily as a small-scope thing (Fletching). -- Senji
I resolved this by saying that Crafts is as stupidly broad as Melee, and covers every form of Craftwork in Creation. You can take a Speciality in a particular Craft to be good at just that Craft in particular.
No more absured than 'I've practiced twelve hours a day with a sword for ten years, so spears are totally intuitive to me'. And it makes Twillights with odd Craft specialities more likely, in my experience, which is cool :) - DariusSolluman
Looks like a reasonable solution, DS. If you're going to allow Performance to cover oratory, debate, dance, song, and an unlimited number of musical instruments, how much of a jump is for Crafts to cover painting, sculpture, woodworking and smithcraft? - Quendalon)
One other solution I considered for crafts in the game I run, is that crafts are like linguistics, each dot you buy gets you another area of of crafts, which a compromise between the two extremes, maybe...never actually used the rule though - Kraken
It's the way I use in my sidereal game too, Kraken. And convinced my Storyteller in DB game to do that as well (got an Earth Aspected Dynast with 5 in Craft who works as a sapper and warfare engines in the Legion). - Etrangere
Another alternative I thought of on my way home from work- anything you don't have a specalty in, you have a -2 penelty at doing. And that'd be a generalized rule, not a specific instance of Craft. Help get Specialties spread out, and make geniune specialists both stand out more and be more rare. OTOH, I'm uncertain as to the coolness of the idea. :) - DariusSolluman
I think the idea of making Crafts like Linguistics makes a whole lotta sense... in fact, now that y'all mention it, that might not be a bad idea for Melee and Performance, too. Though, I doubt that'd fly too well with the Melee players... ~~Gorol
I just like Crafts, Performance, Sail and such as all-encompassing abilities. If you break them down, it becomes hard to make characters like, say, Han Solo who can fly ANYTHING. Or the all-around MegaMechanic who can fix ANYTHING. Those people don't have Pilot (Frighters), Pilot (Fighters), Pilot (Crusiers), etc...they have Pilot (Everything!) Which is FAR more heroic and cool. - Telgar
I play Linguistics as "you can communicate with X if you succeed at a Linguistics roll." I think you could do the same with Craft, "you can think of a way to make X if you succeed at a standard-difficulty Craft roll", and then you make all those other rolls to figure out how well you did it. - FourWillowsWeeping
Craft can cover an awful of ground. "I can kick ass with swords therefore I can kick ass with spears." is far less of a mental stretch for me than "I can forge metal items therefore I can make battleplans and write calligraphy." Importantly, the distinctions one could make in Melee only cover different ways of achieving the same goal while the distinctions one makes in Craft cover very different goals. However, Exalted hand-waves annoying details, so my solution is that you get one area of expertise for free in Craft, and you can buy additional ones for the same cost as a specialty (even though they're not specialties). All your areas of expertise share the same Craft rating, similar to the way some skills work in Deadlands.\\ -- Mapache
I'd propose some kind of...compromise. Craft itself covers pretty much everything; it's a huge wide category that covers making armor, weapons, pretty much constructing anything you might imagine. Same time, crafts like the First Age splits offered in Outcaste exist, Fate is a separate Craft, and other little details. I'd perhaps split the basic Craft skill into a few smaller crafts and add some things to the others. Fate probably covers "weaving" for instance:D Basically, I think the problem has grown to an extent beyond just saying "Craft covers everything."\\ -- CrownedSun
Question I have: If you play a character whose Caste/Aspect Abilities do not include Craft (e.g. a non-Twilight Solar) and you select Craft as a Favored Ability, do you get all Craft variations as Favored Abilities or do you have to select each variation separately, thus reducing your available Favored Abilities for other stuff?
Um. The latter option would suck, while the former is cool. Therefore, the former is the correct answer.
Welcome to Exalted. - willows
The main problem is balance, if you say that the Craft skill is too all encompassing and then try to limit it by individual craft types then it is only fair to do so with the miriad of other skills within the system. Performance has already been mentioned by Quendalon, but this applies to many other skills - melee quite simply is totaly up there with craft, fighting up close and personal with a knife is completely different to using a pole arm, or an axe, or a morning star. You could link certain weapons into similar skills categories, like all 1 handed sword sword types, all pole arms etc.
With a lore skill of just 1 dot you can read and write any language you can speak yet this isn't realistic - i can read/write only in English yet i can speak basic phrases in a few languages. I can read/write Hebrew but stumble like crazy on the pronounciation of words. Lore also covers history, navigation, general knowledge, heraldry and all non occult sciences, which is a huge range of subjects.
Occult covers everything from demons to first age knowledge, attuning to artifacts and of course sorcery. Thrown covers any throwable weapon, knife throwing is fairly easy but completely different to boomerangs or javelins.
There is a whole world of difference between sailing a large galloen and a river row boat but anyone with the Sail ability is considered proficient in any tipe of sailing vessel. Survival in cannon covers all of the terrain types but being able to make a basha using branches and braken in a forest does you no good in the desert.
Simply put I don't think we should single out craft in this way, yes it is a huge range of skills and yes it is unrealistic, but thats the flavour of the Anime style. If you start to penalise Craft then you have to apply the same logic to all the skills in the game. Personaly in our game we use the following; for every dot you have in a skill you have one area of expertise so craft 4 could be; metalworking, carpentry, cooking, and armoury (all at 4 dots). Melee 4 might be; 1handed swords (inc Daiklaves), pole arms, 1 handed crushing and close combat weapons (knives, saps etc).
Actually, I have a weird notion I've been mulling over for a bit now; if anyone would like to participate, I'm opening up a new communal house-rule project called Abilities/Knowledges that might prove fruitful. Ialdabaoth
