Revision as of 09:04, 3 April 2010

Mortal Limits

The Exalted setting allows for such a hero, the scarred super-veteran who is cheating the system every way possible at once for the briefest moment of glory. - Neph

It has been observed that by stretching Thaumaturgy to its limits and using life-sapping artifacts, it's possible for a mortal to compete at the low Terrestrial level.

I disagree.

Using Thaumaturgy, it's possible to make a mortal capable of eating Terrestrials for lunch, and competing with low-level Celestials. I present to you the mortal from hell:

The Mortal from Hell

It's okay to break the system a bit. - Neph

First, he has the Essence Channeler mutation. (He takes it as a Wyld mutation using the rules in the Lunars book, so the mutation counts against his maximum Essence and how long he can stay in Creation, but doesn't cost any bonus points.) He also takes "tough." He then buys Principle of Motion.

He takes Melee at 5, with a 3-dice specialty "with a weapon in each hand" (or alternately, "swords"). He also takes Dexterity at 5. For a single bonus point for the "heirloom" merit (and a single point of artifact), he starts with a perfect enchanted hooked sword with a Rate of 6 and a Defense of 6. For another bonus point and level of artifact, he takes a perfect enchanted great sword, modified to have acc 5 dam 7L and rate 4, with Ritual of Elemental Empowerment (Fire) cast on it (which means that if he spends a mote of Essence, the weapon will do +1L for the rest of the day).

Then, he takes Resources 5, and carries with him outrageous numbers of the potion described on page 137 of the Player's Guide that can increase a mortal's dice pool by 6 (!) for 20 rounds. (These potions are to improve his Dex+Melee pool, natch.) He also buys 3-dice charms against gods, demons, fair folk, ghosts, the undead, exalts, and mortals. He also buys some good luck charms against botches, diseases, in addition to a "life-saving" charm.

The cost so far is ten bonus points, plus whatever it costs in bonus points (probably 10) for those with the Essence Channeler blight to buy a charm. If you like, you can spend another 3 bonus points to buy prodigy and raise his 'effective' Melee to 6. (You could also buy Legendary Attribute plus 5 points, but this isn't cost effective.)

This character carries his great sword in one hand and his hooked sword in the other. His attack pool with the great sword is 5 (dex) + 5 (melee) + 1 (prodigy) + 3 (specialty) + 5 (acc bonus): 19. His parry pool with the hooked sword is 5 (dex) + 5 (melee) + 1 (prodigy) + 3 (specialty) + 6 (defense bonus): 20. That's pretty bad-ass. But when he quaffs one of his nifty little potions, his attack pool rises to 25 and his defense pool rises to 26.

This guy is death on mortals even without using his potions or abilities. But what he really shines at is absolutely trashing godbloods and Terrestrials. He can make four attacks at 21, 20, 19, and 18 dice every turn. (Let's see a Terrestrial dodge that with a dice-adder cap of their Ability score.) He can reflexively expend an action from Principle of Motion to make a full parry (up to six parries at 26, 25, 24, 23, 22, and 21 dice) every turn that he is attacked -- and can expend more actions in the unlikely event that he is attacked more than six times (or expend an additional action to full-dodge an attack that somehow breaks through his parry). Not to mention that due to his talismans, all attacks against him are at -3 dice. The last turn he has stored actions left, he uses his last one to full-parry and uses his normal action to re-activate Principle of Motion.

This guy is what Lookshy's gunzosha troops want to be when they grow up. (No, he doesn't wear gunzosha armor. He wears a perfect enchanted shark's hide buff jacket with Ritual of Elemental Empowerment (Earth): zero mobility penalty, zero fatigue, and soak 13L/13B.) He carries around Wind-Fire Potion and Six-Demon potion (+2 to all physical attributes & wits, becomes fearless, gains two temp Willpower, and gains two -4 health levels) and death-sap (difficulty 4: 10L failed, 5L resisted) in case some day he gets into a _real_ fight. He could go toe to toe with a starting Solar with stacked Fivefold Bulwark Stance and FLB, and probably win.

There are ways this character could be improved further, but if I mentioned them I would be charged with crimes against humanity.

Note: this character's stats are updated in the comments.

Comments

Notice that this build doesn't involve gunzosha armor. In fact, with his level of resources, he's almost definitely sipping on age-staving cordial. So Neph can take his gloom and doom and shove it up his nose! :p - Raindoll

Note that the main thing to allow it to do this is an effing blight. That might cause problesm, and if you are using Meirts and Flaws, it cost bonus points as well, being that Mutation is a Merit like Heirlom is. And while I agree that such a build is gross and stuff, I frankly just like the way Neph presented things. As an ST, I'd allow Neph's character, and use the character youd escribed with more Wyld mutations and send him against players as a frenzying mosnter-lord of a barbarian tribe.

And stuff. Blaque

Even if you're using Merits (which I assumed), the merit Mutation is different from an actual Wyld Mutation. The Merit doesn't limit your permanent Essence, reduce your number of starting charms, limit the time you can spend away from the Wyld, or make you sterile. Instead, you pay bonus points. Wyld Mutations, on the other hand, limit your permanent Essence, reduce your number of starting charms, limit the time you can spend away from the Wyld, and possibly make you sterile; but they have no cost in addition to this. So really, you could say they're two different things. And remember, any strong-willed human who knows about it can walk off into the Wyld and attempt to gain whatever mutations he pleases. If someone was dedicated enough to attaining total combat mastery, and knew about that, I can see him making such a journey.

Of course, the character has bonus points to spare (the build doesn't require taking any flaws), so he could just buy Essence Channeler as a Merit. Where do his abilities come from? An alchemical experiment, of course. (That's the same reason it's somewhat feasible for him to have Dexterity 5: there are potions that allow mortals to reach that level.) - Raindoll

You actually can't take essence channeler as a merit -- it's specifically disallowed. As for the wyld mutation vs. merit bit, note that as a mortal most of the "disadvantages" you noted there don't apply. No real worries about the essence limit, and he doesn't have any starting charms. In this case, I think, you'd have to buy them as merits for a PC -- though you'd probably get a slight bonus point cost-break. --CrownedSun

Essence Channeler is only disallowed as a merit for those who can already channel Essence. Yes, the charm removal doesn't apply to this character, and the Essence limitation is no concern. But note that in the Lunars book, it's stated that Wyld mutations are supposed to be more restrictive for Exalts than mortals. Certainly, it would be reasonable to make starting player characters pay for all their mutations, but it would also be reasonable to disallow this character altogether.

I quote from Neph: "The Exalted setting allows for such a hero, the scarred super-veteran who is cheating the system every way possible at once." This character is just an exercise in seeing how far the system can be abused without actually breaking the rules. - Raindoll

...but you ARE breaking the rules:D --CrownedSun

I have 2 questions: 1) What book is that potion in, if it is in the Players Guide, what page is it actually on? 2) Where is Principle of Motion, I can't seem to find it either? -- Blackedout

For Blackedout\\ Principle of Motion is in the Core book on page 292. can't help you with the potion.\\ For CrownedSun\\ How is he breaking the rules? he already countered the point about the mutation with a note from the author of the merit. Any other choice (like the one you proposed) would be a house rule. This discussion, as I understand it, is about the theoritcal limits of the system as it is written, not what is reasonable. - Malikai

Blackedout: oops! The potion is on page 137. (It's listed as a possible effect of a three-dot potion.) - Raindoll

I believe the main way he is breaking the rules with this example is by splitting a action granted by an extra action charm.\\ They are not independant actions but rather single attack/block actions, you can use one to refresh a full parry but that still leaves you on the defense and with a max extra actions per activation of 5 you really can't be the killing machine described here. -- Blackedout

Hm, I hadn't noticed that. I appears that I read Principle of Motion incorrectly. That makes me feel a little disappointed. I guess it's a good thing I kept a few tidbits in reserve. :)

The character has a perfect enchanted tower shield strapped to each arm, inflicting upon him a total mobility penalty of 2 and fatigue 0, but adding 10 to the difficulty of melee attacks and 20 to the difficulty of ranged attacks against him. Combine that with his -3 talismans against everything under the sun, and this is the equivalent of a 23-dice autoparry against all melee attacks and a 43-dice autoparry against all ranged attacks (except it applies even to unblockables and undodgeables).

Now, instead of giving his hooked sword defense 6 and rate 6, he gives it defense 7 and rate 5. Every turn, he attacks four times, and if somehow an attack slips through his talisman and twin tower shields, he can spend a Principle of Motion action to parry it with 27 dice. (Theoretically, he could spend another action to attempt to dodge an attack that somehow managed to get past 50 dice worth of defenses.)

This makes the character even better than before: he doesn't need to burn a stored action every turn for defense; he can fight hordes o' mooks without them burning through his full parries; you can't totally circumvent his defense with unblockable attacks. Best of all, when the young and foolish Solar with an Orichalcum grand daiklave, 5 dexterity, 5 melee, and a +3 speciality blows 44 motes on a combo of Excellent Strike and Iron Whirlwind Attack, making three attacks at 32 dice, they won't even come close to penetrating this mortal's defenses.

Booyah. - Raindoll

Even though the rules don't say it, I'm positive that you can't wield both a shield (especially a tower shield) and a weapon with the same arm. At least, you can't if you want to receive any benefits from the shield (or the weapon).

I also need to ask where you're getting the stats for all this "perfect, enchanted" equipment that this guy is wearing. Is this some part of power combat, or something?\\ _Ikselam

Actually, tower shields are the _only_ shields you can use and still wield a weapon with the same arm. If you strap the shield to your arm, your fatigue rating increases by 1, but that's it.

Perfect equipment - as hinted at under the "legendary" difficulty description for Craft in the core book - is described in the Thaumaurgy section of the Player's Guide. Enchantments for equipment are also described in that same section. - Raindoll

You misread or mis-remembered the rules regarding Tower Shields, Raindoll.

"Most Tower Shields have a series of straps that allow the user to attach the shield to his body during use. In this configuration, the shield provides the same protection as a target shield, but the character has both hands free." (CRB, pg 335) It also still imposes a 2 point mobility penelty and a 1 point fatigue penelty. (Emphasis mine).

To argue that this would allow a character to have a Tower Shield per arm is plain sillyness.

Additionally, you're assuming about the benefits a Perfect Shield would provide. Consider that a Thunderbolt Shield only provides only a maximum increase in difficulty of 3 (and that's an Orihalcum shield). Further, you're assuming that, more reasons unclear, an attack that isn't parryable is still subject to the cover bonus a shield would provide- whereas I can see a really good reason for disagreeing. DS

Oops, I guess I read "arm" where the book said "body." I also forgot the bit about providing the same benefit as a target shield when strapped on. As for the effects of a perfect shield, I'm not just talking about a perfect shield: I'm talking about a perfect shield with a five-dot enchantment. If my assumptions regarding perfect shields are correct, the character's one tower shield would only increase difficulty by +5 for both melee and ranged attacks. Combined with the talismans, this is equivalent to a 13 dice persistent defense. Not too shabby, but not invincible either: I guess he'll have to double up with PoM parries more often than I thought.

As for the applicability of shield difficulty to unparryable attacks, I suppose you could make a case for a house rule against it (although the case becomes weaker when you're talking about a shield strapped to the target's body). However, as far as I know, nowhere in the rules is it suggested that an attack that cannot be parried bypasses the difficulty modifier for shields. - Raindoll

Re: Perfect Enchanted Shield. The problem is, we don't /know/ what bennefits an Enchanted Shield provides. A +1 to soak is no where NEARLY as valuable as a +1 to the difficulty to hit you, and you can't assume that they are of equal worth. Further, if your set up is making an Enchanted Perfect Tower Shield more valuable than an ARTIFACT 3 shield which has additional drawbacks, and that what you're describing is both more valuable than most armor (thus violating the 'Very few people bother to make Enchanted shields note in the Bo3C) you should distinctly consider that you may be incorrect in your assumption about how powerful this shield is capable of being. Either a Thunderbolt Shield should be providing +6 to the difficulty to hit (at leaast!), or you have simply misunderstood the rules for Perfect and Enchanted Shields, and are misapplying the rules for armor to them.

Re: Shields and unparryable. The trouble is, the shield /must/ still be being used to parry blows, even if it's strapped to the body. Otherwise, you get really wonky interactions between the Tower Shield and, say, being hit with a sledge. Why is the Tower Shield better at keeping me from taking damage than a full suit of Superheavy Plate (presuming it makes me miss by 1). A miss by 1 indincates I /hit/ and did /no damage/ because of the shield. The only way I can interepret that is by the blow skidding off because of the shield- which is fundamentally either a parry or a cover bonus. Now, if a shield is being held, it's clearly providing a parry bonus. So it's simply more elegant to assume a shield is always providing a parry bonus- but I can see the argument for cover, if it's a Tower strapped to the body. DS

As for your first point, it's true that my interpretation is extremely pathological. I could probably make a better guess, but I'd rather just wait for official word.

As for your second, I'll note that I'm arguing from a standpoint of mechanics, not realism. I don't think unblockables ignoring shields is something the developer forgot to put in. - Raindoll

Re: Shields and Cover. Shields definitely count as a cover bonus from a mechanics perspective. (CRB pg 229) Although this seems somewhat off to me- after all, you have to conciously /move/ a shield, in the same way that weapon must be conciously moved to deflect a blow- from a realism standpoint, I almost wanna make a Shield into a weapon, with a very low Speed and Accuracy, a slight bump in bashing damage (+1B), but a really good Defense and Rate- with a special note of additional improvement in defense for someone with guarding against arrows, and shield's parrying Arrows without a stunt.

I dunno. That just feels more right than a passive cover bonus... DS (ed: DS proceeds to draw up alternate shield rules)

I have two words for fighting this character: Emerald Countermagic - Toram

I will note that any character who can channel Essence into Spirit Charms is no longer a normal "heroic" mortal. At this point he's either God Blooded or a Wyld Mutant. And the idea that a Perfect Enchanted Shield would give better bonuses than an actual Artifact Thunderbolt shield is silliness of the highest degree. There are no guidelines as to what bonus *if any* applies to shields. That includes exceptional, perfect, Enchantment or Elemental Empowerment. - JPCardier

Well, yes, as noted. Which makes my current line of speculation rather silly. - Raindoll

What am I missing that allows this guy to use a greatsword in one hand and a single hook sword in the other? - NatalieD

Hm. It had somehow slipped my mind that you /had/ to use two hands for a greatsword (so I checked, and sure enough you do). In that case, the character should replace the great sword with a straight sword or a short spear. - Raindoll

For anyone who wants it, I have written this charecter up fully, with a few "enhancements". The issue of Spirit Charms is left unadressed. In the description of the Essence Channeler mutation it states that a charecter may begin with up to 3 Spirit Charms. If you feel spending bonus points is necessary to begin with one of these Charms, one could simply scale back on items purchased with the Knowledge Background. Here it is MortalFromHell - Jamez

That's a heck of a lot of handy mutations, potions, et cetera. Think of all the risks and years of study he spent aquiring them. I also imagine at least some of that stuff is going to have side effects or hurt him in the long term. More to the point, how many mortals will there be with that kind of talent, luck, and resources? Maybe 100? 1,000 at most? So all you've really done is create another kind of Superhero to lord it over the mortals. Of course, The fact that he got his superpowers from luck and smarts is very cool and could be used to tell interesting stories. But its not as though some aspiring Dawn cast is going to be able to assemble an Army of these guys. -MeiRen

As Raindoll has said, at this level of resources he is likely to be drinking age staving tonics by the bucketload. And I agre 100 percent that mortals of this level are virtualy non-existent, but I feel that the number is closer to 10 or twenty rather then the rather robust 100. Jamez

Sorry to say, but in my opinion, anyone with the Essence Channeler Merit is no longer a -mortal.- But that's just me. - Seiraryu

A few extra notes - first off, you actually have to buy Sciences up; as statted out, the Mortal from Hell has only 1 dot each of Alchemy and Enchantment. Minor quibble, but worth mentioning. I would also say that a character with 6 pts of Mutations, who is "no longer a natural animal"(Lunars, pg 213) doesn't really count as a 'mortal from hell' so much as a creepy monster. In addition, one Terrestrial Circle Countermagic takes out all his potions, all his enchantments, and any bonuses from potions he already drank. Blessed-Respite, Hero's Recovery, and Wind-Fire potions have restrictions and/or side effects listed, which is going to hurt him in the long run. I can't seem to get him above 18 accuracy (6 dex + 6 melee + 3 weapon + 3 specialty). Finally, this character has three legendary objects, so he's going to be a major target.
So, overall, I'm not convinced that this breaks mortals. It allows a number of supernatural creatures to improve a mortal very much, sure, but this is really not that different from tossing him into an arena with a pumped-up Amalgam and seeing who wins. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be too hard for many combat-focused Exalts to win in a fight against him, especially if they have anywhere near his experience. - FrivYeti