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So, any thoughts on mortal infernalists? I'm talking both the wacky mortal sorcerers who summon demons for fun and profit, and the ones who go all the way and read the Broken-Winged Crane to cash in their souls for valuable prizes. - Quendalon

Does it come with that nifty keychain and the "I sold my soul for power and all I got was married to the Ebon Dragon!" t-shirt? Seriously though, It is an interesting idea. I doubt they could summon much more than the most minor of First Circles on their own... and those would act as helpers to get them in deeper trouble as I'm seeing it. - haren

I figure most "infernalist powers" just consist of demons teaching mortals how to do certain obscure Occult rituals. I doubt any demon would ever use Endowment to actually give a human Charms -- it's too little bang for the buck. Demons are basically just another type of spirit, and the various blessing Charms are the only real tool they have to juice people up.\\ _Ikselam

Mortal magic isn't strong enough for a sorceror to summon a demon on his own; such things require whole covens of magicians, and potent tools, and probably the aid of a superior being, as Ikselam said. The Broken-Winged Crane, perhaps, is a demon of corruption, and it seduces men to the darkness, where it turns them into lesser reflections of itself. In another world, it is indeed a document of mystic damnation, and it describes how, through gradual and careful hunting and consumption of spirit beings, a mortal can amass the spiritual power to accept the mantle of Infernal Exaltation itself. - FourWillowsWeeping

Quote: "The Broken-Winged Crane, perhaps, is a demon of corruption"

Maybe it's one of the Ebon Dragon's demons.\\ _Ikselam

Hmm...strange, I put it up as Oramus's... I have an explanation for that later. As for mortal infernalism... I guess that's something to think about when writing up new demons. - FourWillowsWeeping

And yes, I was thinking that it would take major group effort and tools... as many talismans as they can get to help protect them, and lots and lots of sacrifices to the powers they are attempting to contact. The way I'm seeing it is they make a pinhole... the demon can scratch it open a bit, but it's no where near enough. It takes multiple rituals performed over and over and over... to make a hole big enough for even a tiny demon to get though. And most of those people will get caught by Sidreals on the watch for that sort of activity. Oh a seperate note... I like the Infernal Exaltation idea. Abyssals choose to be Exalted, but Infernals must quest and fight for it. - haren

It's been canonical from the beginning that a mortal sorcerer can call up a demon. Check the core book, p.137, where a Legendary Occult feat is to "Summon an elemental or demon of the First Circle without being one of the Exalted." Not that it says anything about *binding* the demon once summoned, but that's another matter. - Quendalon

Interesting, that. I guess I'll haveto deal with mortal Infernalists, then...sigh...and here I was just trying to find a niche for some Charm ideas that don't thematically fit the Solars. - FourWillowsWeeping Well, mortal magic isn't about Charms and using raw supernatural power to bend the world to your will. A lot of it relies upon making use of the innate magical properties of Creation; for example, a mortal necromancer can't simply call up a hungry ghost with a Charm, but he can ritually murder someone with enough pain and fear to create one from scratch because, you know, that's how hungry ghosts are made. Likewise, many demons have ways to cross into Creation on their own when certain conditions hold, and the mortal infernalist knows how to bring those conditions about. Note that several demons, such as Alveua, Mara, and even Ligier note circumstances by which they may enter Creation; mortals can ritually call such demons by enacting those specific rites. - Quendalon

Infernal Sorcery and Demon Summoning

So, two things just occured to me.

A) Are the Infernals going to have their own brand of Super Sorcery, will they have access to Solar Circle Sorcery, or what? It seems silly to me that they couldn't summon the Third Circle, myself...

B) I vaugely recall Rebecca mentioning that it was an amusing/worrying thing that the Incarna didn't give Bridgit Sorcery, and that there's Implications in the Sidereals requiring knowledge of a Prayer Strip Charm to make use of the Celestial Circle.

Also, I just thought of a damn cool Infernal Occult charm.  :) - DariusSolluman

My thought is that Infernals get two Circles of Sorcery - the third rank is a special privilege of the champions of Sol Invictus. However, they cast demon summonings as though they were one level lower - it's not a Sorcery at all, but just a Charm (the one that leads to the Terrestrial Circle, even) to summon a First Circle Demon, and so on. - FourWillowsWeeping

Summoning a First Circle Demon with a simple Charm? Good gravy, that's potent. No more puttering around with hours-long rituals! Summon them in clumps and bunches! It makes sense, sure, but it isn't something that I'd want to face, no indeed! - Quendalon

Hey, hey... not just a Charm, we're talking prayer-strip level here. Just barely straddling the line between Charms and Sorcery. Maybe serveral minutes worth of rituals, sure. Have you seen Athletics? Infernals are supposed to make you soil yourself. They are not your buddies. - FourWillowsWeeping

'I sold my soul and all I got was to be less than a Solar' t-shirts are something to avoid then, eh? :) I'll try and keep that in mind myself with Charm thinkiness. - DariusSolluman

Well, like Abyssals, they have a "theme" and they're so focused in their theme (breaking the rules) that breaking out is hard for them. But in-theme they're a little better than Solars, who canonically can't beak the rules. - FourWillowsWeeping

Setting wise, Solars who become infernals MUST be more powerful than Solars. If you are giving your soul to the enemies of the gods, you had better be getting something damn good in return for it. =)


You're quite correct. If we follow the pattern of Abyssals, then we can assume that turncoats are, indeed, more powerful than Solars - much as Abyssal turncoats are more powerful than pure instances of either. The Charm sets interact so that one can fill the holes in the other, so the meeting of capabilities are superior to either set standing alone. - FourWillowsWeeping

*blink* More than pure instances of either? I'd swear your saying that the Gothy Solars are better than both the Sunny Solars and the Greeny Solars. .. which, by Exalted Kombat standards, simply ain't so, really. Excepting for the Infernals, since you're the one making them :) - DariusSolluman

what I'm saying should be the case (I don't know if it is true for Abyssals) is that Gothy Solars and Greeny Solars should be better than Solars, Abyssals, or Infernals. I'm deliberately trying to make this the case with Greeny Solars by leaving key proficiencies out of the Infernal toolkit, which they can fill out with low-level Solar Charms. Die-adders, for instance, only go up to Limit for Infernals, but as Solar-rank Exalts, their die-adder cap is Attribute+Ability: they have room for more dice-adding, should they come across Charms to permit it. - FourWillowsWeeping