FrivYeti/HeroicBrainstorms

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Brainstorming the Heroic Exalted

The Heroic Exalted, I'd imagine, are the "Chosen of No-one" presented in Autocthonians, I'm guessing? If so, I've had a few thoughts on them. Firstly though, is that they'd use Adamant as their MM. I like the Charms from backgrounds idea though, but due to Exalted's love of fives, you should try to develop a fifth caste. Just my two cents. - Trithne

Hmm, maybe everyone should use Adamant. It does fit, don't it? This is still, as earlier mentioned, very rough. - FrivYeti

Background Charms? Way cool, I've suggested this before but never bothered to write it. Curious to see what you do. Arcane? Lame as hell. Exalted are not Arcane, except Sidereals who are damaged. Fifth Caste? Yes. Rule of fives! Also I think you'll get some mileage out of looking through the hardbacks for Backgrounds. There are a lot of them. I don't really buy the journeyman caste as a heroic archetype. Maybe there is some mythology that is worth looking at, here. - willows

Actually, I'm going to play with Arcane a bit. *grins* A bit of the old, and enough new to make it properly different. :) And maybe I should go with enough Backgrounds for six Castes, to make it properly Autochthonian.... ah, screw it. Five it is. - FrivYeti

Sifu. Sorcery. 'Nuff said. -- GregLink

The Sorcery background is made of 90% EVIL, and 10% ink. ;) That said, maybe a nice Library should pop up. - FrivYeti

Background based Charms sound interesting... Couple of questions about that... Are you thinking of having the background be bought with exp or earned through roleplaying or what? Either way is possible, but are kinda different approaches I guess (with one being more like how other Exalted buy their abilities and attributes they base their charms on and the other...um... not being like that). Similarly, backgrounds are stuff that can be lost a bit more easily than other Traits (like Resources can be spent, Followers can die, Artifacts can break), although some are a bit more permenant (like Breeding & Savant fr'instance). Basing a Charm on something that can regularly be lost and regained seems it might need a bit of thought to make it balanced and as useful as other Charms (sorta like basing Charms on HL or Temporary Willpower)... This looks really fresh and different tho -- Call

Well, I've always felt that Backgrounds should have the same sort of protection that Abilities do. That is, if your Followers are killed, you get new ones, as long as you weren't a complete dunce about it. And yeah, I usually go with Backgrounds being bought with experience (current rating x2) in my games, based on the oWoD, so I didn't think of that issue. I believe the PG talks about that? - FrivYeti

The Charms deriving from Backgrounds I see as both supplements and creators. Charms built off Allies increase their abilities, but they also assist in finding new ones. Charms of Resources provide wealth where there is none, possibly by simply making it that you have something of value to others, not necessarily money. Charms of Influence are pretty easy.

Essentially, the -potential- loss of a Background to the vagarities of Fate doesn't exclude you from the Charms it provides, it'll probably make them more useful, in fact. - Trithne, who fixed your spelling of "Bureaucracy" It's a horrid word.

Background protection does make sense actually - whether its through Backgrounds being fixed or Backgrounds "regenerating" back to their levels after a little bit of time - especially if people are paying exp for them. I could see it getting a little freaky if really pushed (like, someone burns down your Manse or Library and you fortuitously find a new one in an eyeblink of in game time), though that's admittedly a really extreme example. I'm not sure whether it'd be better to handle that through Charms (like Trithne suggests - if I'm understanding correctly), as an innate power of Heroics, as a fixed rule that applies to everyone or just to make it something that an ST and Players can decide between themselves. It'd probably depend on the precise interactions between losing Backgrounds and losing capabilities (like, any or none at all) and how much you wanted to push making Heroics vulnerable to attack through their Backgrounds - in terms of as a game tactic and as a Storytelling device.... You're right btw. the PG does offer an optional rule on Background Costs (Exp Cost = total number of dots taken * 3) on pg17, actually in the middle of a half page section about "Background Protection" and "Gaining and Losing Backgrounds". - Call, going off on a tangent

The placement of Familiar in the caste labeled as "ties to the self" strikes me as a bit off. Maybe a shuffle - Resources to Advocates, Reputation to Champions and Familiar to Journeymen? I kinda like the idea of the "mysterious hero" everyone's heard of but truly knows nothing about... - Hapushet, intrigued by Background Charms as well

Ooh, good thoughts. I've shuffled around the Backgrounds a bit. I like Reputation and Cipher being in the same group. Hammers home the difference between Cipher and Arcane Fate. - FrivYeti

One more thought: You currently have these guys Favoring only 1/5 of their Charmset, which puts them on the same "totally gimped" level as Lunars. I'd strongly suggest giving them all 3 Caste Backgrounds, and letting them Favor 3 more. They don't really need to Favor Attributes or Abilities, especially not if you take my suggestion and give them Charms that let them buy some kind of semi-Favored Abilities/Attributes (yes, I know that pains them at chargen, but you said you wanted them at the low end of the Celestial scale) later on. - Hapushet

Mmm. True. *thinks about it* I want them to have some Favoured Abilities to begin, though. *hrms* On the other hand, the general Celestial rule seems to be nine favoureds, which I forgot. *shakes head* I can actually give them more Favoured and Caste and still have room left over. Good point! - FrivYeti

One problem.

the regent caste...

Uh I thought the heroic exalted MADE no claims of leadership

No FALSE claims of leadership. An interesting aspect of the structure of these Charms is that, in order to use their Charms to lead others, the Heroic Exalts have to already have Backing or Followers. In other words, only when they are leading can they become better leaders. They have to earn it first. :) - FrivYeti

Brainstorming the Charms

Heroic Exalted are on the low end of the Celestial power scale; while Autochthon wants them to help Creation improve, he also recognizes that power can be a dangerously alluring thing, and went with encouraging the potential of humanity.

Heroic Exalts get, therefore, to trod over bits and pieces of other groups' schticks. They are Solar-level when it comes to training effects, group effects, and co-operation. They have access to perfect defenses, but not perfect attacks (however, they will have access to unblockable or undodgeable attacks at mid-Essence). They are generally Terrrestrial-level for direct physical action, but Celestial-level for construction and the like. Their ability to work behind the scenes can be very good, or very poor, depending on the group.

This is all a bit muddy at the moment, as I meander about pondering.

Charm Sets

Allies: An Advocate Charmset, Allies Charms are based primarily around helping others and making them stronger. Effects that raise other people's Abilities, defending people, and Healing effects can fall into this area.
Artifact: A Journeyman Charmset; Reasonably enough, Artifact Charms are primarily based around crafting. However, they also encompass Charms to affect your Essence pool and attunement strengthening or breaking effects.
Backing: A Regent Charmset, Backing is going to cover not only the obvious bureaucratic Charms, but also Charms for travel and communication. I don't know, it seems to fit.
Cipher: A Champion Charmset, Cipher includes both stealth-based Charms and Charms for defense in combat. This may mean that most Heroic Exalts end up with a bit of Cipher. That's not bad to me.
Contacts: This Advocate Charmset will be based around two effects; gathering information, and investigation effects. This includes magical divinations.
Familiar: A Regent Charmset, the Familiar Charms allow the character to control animals, improve her own Familiar, create new Familiar links, and borrow powers from her Familiar and other beings.
Followers: A Regent Charmset, Followers Charms are based around leadership, and around training people to become better a la Tiger Warrior. Should be fun.
Influence: An Advocate Charmset, Influence gets to be the sneaky Charmset. Lying, socializing, and mind control get rolled in here.
Library: This Scholar Charmset gets some fairly arbitrary effects; this is where the linguistic-style Charms go, along with research Charms for spells or artifacts, and Sorcery.
Manse: A fun Journeyman Charmset, Manse allows the character to muck around with leyline, playing with nature, building things, and creating powerful geomantic effects.
Mentor: A Scholar Charmset, Mentor Charms work on self-improvement. Charms that permanently enhance a character, charms to help them keep control of themselves, and the powers of the martial arts lie here.
Reputation: A Champion Charmset, Reputation Charms let a character be larger than life. Direct die adders mostly go here, along with passive defenses and scene-length enhancers to things like socials, soak, and the like. Reputation is where Ox-Body goes.
Resources: I'm a bit iffy again here. Merchanting and appraisal, of course, but also having a 'knack' for finding objects. Not sure what else. Going to ponder.
Savant: This Scholar Charmset is primarily concerned with dealing with the supernatural: Charms to affect spirits, the Wyld, and the Underworld.
Style: This Champion Charmset deals with incredible physical feats, as well as including more offensive Charms than any other group.

Comments

Mentor charms could have borrowing and communication charms, to allow people to benefit more from their mentors?
-- Darloth

Communication! I knew I forgot something! I'm going to stick that in Backing, though. Keep track of your organization from ANYWHERE. ;) - FrivYeti

If Mentor was to be martial arts, you could just sub it out for Face or Sifu. I could see mentor being integrity, come 2ed; being about control and restraint, as well as understanding. Also, I would love to play this - primarily for the glee of having every party member trying to get three or more backgrounds at 5. -TheHoverpope

Mentor would only be Face or Sifu in disguise if that's all it did. Lookig at things from the wuxia/anime side, the classic mentor is the martial arts master, and I think ignoring that would be a mistake. However, I would like to see some "self-improvement" charms here too - permacharms and possibly even some way to buy additional Favored Abilities (or even Attributes?), reflecting a mentor's assistance in helping you develop your own potential. - Hapushet

After some though, I'm going to agree with Hapushet and Hoverpope, and go with permanent-boosting Charms, Martial Arts, and self-restraint Charms. A lovely mix. :) - FrivYeti

Resources: Have Charms for haggling, so to speak. Lowering the cost of things, making what you have seem worth more. Resources is, ultimately, about wealth, so do that with it. - Trithne

Resources doesn't have to just be about wealth. It's also about your job and how you live -TheHoverpope

Have you considered trying to "balance" the Background areas by applying some kind of artificial limit (say, three?) on the areas each background covers? I'm not suggesting you leave it in place, but use it as a starting place in order to make sure all the Backgrounds have an equal probability of being useful, and it might help you sort out some issues like where Warlike Charms go or how to draw the line between some of the more similar ones like Contacts and Influence or Library and Savant.

That's more or less what I'm trying to play with now. The broader categories ('physical attacks') are Backgrounds with only two areas, where narrower ones can have three. - FrivYeti

Also (and this is just personal taste here), when I think "Savant" I think "Sorcerer" - and you can blame the stupid cheesecake-cover book if you want - so I'd shift sorcery to Savant if it were me. Speaking of which, which Circle do you see these guys getting? - Hapushet

Probably Celestial Circle sorcery and Celestial Martial Arts for the Heroics. They don't have the raw power of the Solars or the innate Tapestry understanding of the Sidereals. And it's Savant AND Sorcerer. ;) In all seriousness, Sorcery stays where it is to balance the Charmsets; otherwise, Library gets too weak and Savant gets too strong. - FrivYeti