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Latest revision as of 23:31, 8 June 2010

I just had to say that Another Destiny Atemi is the funniest Charm I've read in a long time, and the astrological tie-in is a top-notch detail. I'd have liked to see an Avoidance Kata done with the ideas developed here. - willows

Thanks! I used Rebecca's commentary on Avoidance Kata for reference. - Quendalon

Is EFM's Essence cost committed? - willows

Ooh, yeah, that would technically be committed Essence, right? I'll change that. :) - Quendalon

Hmmm... would it be possible for a Solar to learn Another Destiny Atemi? If so, how would it work without Colleges? - szilard

They can buy the Charm as a prerequisite to further development in the style, but they cannot actually use it. - Quendalon

I'm wondering about Another Destiny Atemi... Just a thought, but I'd guess that a lot of effects aren't possible on beings that are outside of fate or have their destiny tied up (like Abyssals and Akuma.) or am I wrong? I just guess that they can't alter things like their death-fate or serving the Yozi. - haren

Good call. This Style's Charms have no effect on targets outside of Fate unless otherwise specified. I'll add that to the intro text. - Quendalon

The Form Charm seems a little... weak for its cost. 15m for +Ess to all MA pools and being able to soak everything with Bashing doesn't seam that great, unless the Fate-anchoring effect is worth more than it would initially appear? Overall, though - a nifty/funky/cool style thus far. - Moxiane

That's fair. I've upgraded the power significantly. Let me know if it's still underpowered. Thanks for the compliments! - Quendalon

One thing that might be interesting to think about is this: Do you need the Style to provide its users with supernatural resilience? As I see it, a Sidereal style doesn't need to be a full-featured combat toolkit, PAoC notwithstanding - it's laser-focused on one element, ignoring others. But that's me. - willows

No, you're correct, it doesn't truly need the supernatural resilience. I picked it because it seemed to fit, rather than because I was looking for combat prowess. Do you think I erred? What would you recommend for alternate powers in the Form Charm? - Quendalon

The supernatural resilience seems to tie into the "Diamond" part of the Charm. However, it's not like the Loom of Fate on which this martial art is based is extraordinarily resilient... look how often they say the Tapestry becomes tangled or damaged! - LiOfOrchid

I think it might be funny to allow the Form to redirect damage to the character into other destinies; she remains unharmed while, all around her, rocks shatter and people die for no discernable reason. - Quendalon

Two commenty questions. First, if this is a Sidereal Level MA, shouldn't it have a Complete Celestial Style as a pre-req? (Sidenote, shouldn't it also have a color where Diamond is?) Second, I'm blinking a bit at Entangling Fate Maneuver- it seems to mimic the Greater Sign of Jupiter more cheaply and easily. Maybe require an Essence vs Essence contest, or even roll MA + Essence vs a difficulty of the subject's Essence.

As another alternative, maybe put EFM into the post-Form Charms and the Essence 6 range, and replace it with a Charm that lets the practicioner slide into and out of the Weave of Destiny as a reflexive action for a scene. DS

Yes, this is Sidereal level, and it should have a complete Celestial style as a prerequisite. Added the standard text to the Charm. "Diamond" is the color, and it's as much a color as "Prismatic" is.  :)

Entangling Fate Maneuver has a similar effect to the Greater Sign of Jupiter, but it's much smaller in scale. It requires a successful attack roll and only affects one target, rather than automatically affecting every target within several miles. (I have noted the duration difference, however, and shortened EFM's duration accordingly.) Given that there are any number of Charms that mimic the other four Greater Signs, I'm not sure that the criticism is valid, though I'm willing to be convinced. - Quendalon

An additional note: creatures can also be pulled inside of fate using the Arrows of Reason, a resplendent destiny effect under the Quiver. - Quendalon

Can Pattern Spider Assault be used on non-Sidereals? If so, what is the effect? - LiOfOrchid

Just like using it on a Sidereal. This is now spelled out in the Charm text. - Quendalon

That seems kinda weak. PSB is the pain, but requiring ten successes on a dicepool most Siddie will max out at 12, and are unlikely to use a WSAV on, is a bit much. Maybe make it against the target's Essence instead, which either works or doesn't- but still adds successes as Paradox to Siddies (making them both more vulnerable to repeated application, and more strong against a single shot)

Cool idea for a Charm though. And I'll get back to you on the GSoJ when I have the book in front of me :) DS

The Form Charm adds an additional 6+ automatic successes... but yes, your point is well taken. Charm changed. - Quendalon

Ah. Hadn't considered the 'Craft (Fate)' as a physical action, and thought it fell outside the Charm's effects. Wait, does it always work now? DS

Also, for your reading pleasure...

				There once was a student
Another Destiny Atemi 		who had all the answers
Weft-Gripping Movement 	who never had to study
Sensing the Tapestry 		whom teachers despaired of teaching
Cord-Cutting Practice 		who lived without friends
Entangling Fate Maneuver 	because she didn't need any
Diamond Weave of Fate Form 	"I can make my own way," said she

				There once was a teacher
Karma-Shattering Strike	who asked questions without answers
Destiny-Imposing Blow 		who never read a book
Innocent Victim Defense 	whom taught nothing but how to be
Pattern Spider Assault 	And could befriend the friendless

(I'll have to wait to see the last charms before finishing :)

Very nice! But there's little point in attempting to design a sutra for an incomplete Style, since I'm guaranteed to shuffle these Charms around at least once before I'm finished. :) - Quendalon

True, but I like writing Sutras. :) DS

I like the new Form; cooler than just adding auto successes. The Siddie becomes totally bound by Fate- they have no indepdent chance of success or failure. Which is powerful and awesome.  :)

Something I just noticed- Karma-Shattering Strike says it can reduce Dark Fate. But Dark Fate specifically says only the direct intervention of the Maidens can mitigate it's curse.

Now, an easily solution presents itself- make KSS a Charm which requires the approval of a Maiden to learn- whereupon, implicitly, any use of it is approved by (and thus, is the direct action of) a Maiden. Just a thought :) DS

I have taken the more elegant solution of simply not allowing the Charm to remove a Dark Fate. - Quendalon

Some thoughts on the style as it stands:

• Karma-Shattering Strike and Destiny-Imposing Blow have wonky mechanics and need to be rewritten. I think both will get the same sort of astrological orientation as Another Destiny Atemi.
• Pattern Spider Assault should go pre-Form; that would match with other single-target, non-lethal Sidereal Charms from the book.
• There are a whole lot of effects in here with no immediate, direct combat function. This isn't a request for Charm ideas - I have a list of more combative Diamond Weave Charms that I'm planning to write up, and I don't need any more - but a query as to your opinions regarding the utilitarian Diamond Weave Charms I've already written up. - Quendalon

I love these Charms, for the most part. I would suggest only that some of the Charms that aren't directly combative be moved up to post-Formposition to make room for combat-viable Charms for initiates. One shouldn't need to be a master to be an utterly terrifying combatant with a Sidereal style. (Compare one Charm here, any one Charm, with Five Jade Fury...see?) - willows

I like your thinking. I've restructured the tree as it stands: Cord-Cutting Practice and Entangling Fate Maneuver have been fused into Fate-Knitting Power, Pattern Spider Assault and Innocent Victim Technique have been moved below the Form, and I've added combat benefits to Weft-Gripping Movement and Embroidered Mask Technique. Expect more changes as I add new Charms. This looks like it'll be a pretty big Style, with lots and lots of Charms. - Quendalon

A second question re: the Form - is it only the Attribute + Ability dice that are converted into automatic successes, thus meaning that any bonus dice from weapons, artefacts, etc... are still rolled? Not like it's going to matter much, when the guy is routinely getting 7-10 successes on practically everything, but it might do. :) Also, this Style is getting scary - Authority-level scary. *grin* - Moxiane

It affects all bonus dice as well... the style does only one thing, but it does it very, very well. :) And thanks for the compliment! I want the Style to be balanced and kick twenty-five different kinds of ass, and I hope it will do the job! - Quendalon

I'm loving the post form Charms. But a thought on the mantle- although it's less personally powerful, perhaps it should be a TN reducer, taking all allies to TN 5 and all enemies to TN 9 while using the given Abilities? Seems more interesting and Sidereally than 'wee, successes'. DS

Thanks! As to the TN reduction, since the Form Charm results in automatic successes, reducing TN would make the Mantle more useful for non-combat purposes than for combat, which seems backwards for a MA Charm. No worries though, I'm planning to rewrite the Mantle anyway; it's one of the weaker Charms, conceptually, and I'm unhappy with the current draft as a whole. - Quendalon

Can Celestial Injunction Kata be used with any College? Do you need to learn different versions of the Charm for each Constellation? Assuming that you can use it with any College you possess, do you have to declare which College is being used before the attack roll? Mostly minor details. Also, Murderous Destiny Lash rocks. -LiOfOrchid

There's only one version, it can be used with any College, and you declare the College before making the attack roll. I have edited the Charm text accordingly; please let me know if it remains unclear. And thanks for the compliment! - Quendalon

It was mostly clear before, I figured you'd just want to be explicit. Oh! I noticed that in Murderous Destiny Lash, there is no Rate for the Power Combat users out there. -LiOfOrchid

Fixed. - Quendalon

The more I look at the way this Martial Art has been evolving, the more I think it's sick, sick, SICK, SICK!!! It's getting pretty powerful. Or is it mostly my imagination? -LiOfOrchid

While Thread-Splitting Protocol is, well, cool on a stick - it is also a bit low on the consequences side for a Charm that basically says, "*poof* I'm not dead." The Sidereal in question should either be audited or censured or cause a breach in the Tapestry or something for rewriting reality at that fundamental a level. If nothing else, the pattern spiders will be pissed. - Moxiane

Sounds good. Unfortunately I'm writing without my Sidereals book today, but when I get home I'll put in stuff about Severity XX offenses and all that rot. Good catch. - Quendalon

Done. I have some vague thoughts about how killing a character with a Destiny or Dark Fate before that destiny comes due is an offense whose Severity equals the rating of the destiny, but that's not something to apply directly to a Charm. - Quendalon

Hm. I'm leery on TSP. First, how long dead can the target be and still be brought back? Second, there's a strong No Ressurection vibe in Exalted I'd prefer to not see violated. Course, this goes under 'things what should never happen' in my head; it'd be like having a Charm that breaks HGD. Just a bad idea.

Maybe if it just exchanged the minds and souls or something... And left the Exaltation with the body.

Mind you, I also think it'd be funny to beat the crap out of Chejop, and have his look change from one of hate to one of utter confusion before the final blow falls. And somewhere on the Blessed Isle, a middle aged peasant man begins to plot his revenge... DS

You have to use it in the same turn that someone dies. Dude, read the Charm when you critique it. :) I took the idea from the several references in E:tS to people outliving their own deaths due to tangles in the Loom; it's hardly a violation of canon if it's built on canonical roots. - Quendalon

You have a certain point :) Sorry, at work and distracted. Course, they CUT THE FRIGGING FIBER to my home interweb, so all I can really do is comment at work. Sigh. :P DS

Clawing at the Weave seems kinda weak for it's cost and requirements. I'd get rid of the 'only with charms' bit- it can't be Dodged or Parried at all. (Now, mind you, Charms that provide applicibility even when unapplicible would still work, duh :) That, or move it Pre-Form. DS

Makes sense. Done. - Quendalon

Oooh. I like Reality Hardening. Maybe have a branching Charm that raises the Minimum Essence to invoke Charms in a like radius. If you don't have the Permanent Essence to meet the new minimum, you lose access to the Charm. DS

Thanks! I considered the Essence prerequisite change for RHP, but decided against it on the grounds that it was too nasty. Celestial Injunction Kata already does something similar, and hitting Essence as a prereq seemed to be too broad in its effectiveness.

Three Charms to go! - Quendalon

I would seriously consider switching to dice of Paradox in all cases; while I can see justifications for working in flat point values, I think that the dice are both a more exciting option, and more continuous with normative Astrology mechanics. - willows

I'm using flat point values because that follows the example of Astrology Interruption Method, which seems to be the only canonical source of a Sidereal Martial Art awarding Paradox. - Quendalon

In that case, I consider AIM to be messily designed, but your logic is sound, as always. I will houserule them all in my game. *manaical laughter* - willows