Difference between revisions of "GreatCurseTheories"

Latest revision as of 01:16, 6 April 2010

Following the lead of ScarletEmpressTheories and MalfeasBreakoutTheories, here's another theories page! This time, the question is, "How can the Great Curse be broken, lifted, removed, or alleviated?" I'm pretty sure that the canon answer is, "It can't, unless your ST Golden Rules otherwise," so let's hear some of the ideas for creative, epic ways to overcome the greatest weakness of the Exalted!

Oh, and feel free to play fast and loose with the exact definition of the Great Curse; besides the rules mechanics, it's pretty vague, anyway.

1. Because the Great Curse is a death-curse, it could be removed by making those who cast it no longer dead. Precisely how one resurrects the Malfeans, and how one deals with the angry reborn Primordials afterwards, is another story... not to mention what might happen to the Underworld when there's suddenly no Malfeans there making it exist anymore. (Everyl)
2. The Great Curse actually isn't directly on the Exalted - it's on the Celestines. It's what makes them pay so little attention to Creation; their apparent GoD addiction is just a result of them having nothing better to do, really. Because the Exalted draw on power from their patron Celestines, they are affected by "bleedoff" from the Curse, which drives them nuts. In order to lift the Curse, one would have to kill the Celestines - they're gods, so they'll get better, but the fundamental alteration of death would cause the Great Curse to fall off. (Everyl)
3. As #2, but you have to convince or trick the Celestines to take actions directly contrary to their natures, thus fundamentally altering them enough to shake the Curse without killing them. The Unconquered Sun must lose. Luna must do something in a completely honest and straightforward way with no ulterior motives. Jupiter must freely share her knowledge. And so on. (Everyl but ripped from a former ST of mine who used it.)
4. The Eye of Autochthon can do it, but its bad habit of doing things too well has unexpected side effects. Specifically, in order to remove all mental influence of the Great Curse from the Exalted, it causes every living Celestial Exalt to simultaneously die - their next incarnation gets to be 100% Great Curse free! The Dragon-Blooded aren't exterminated, though - only those among them who have succumbed to the Great Curse (anima showing and 0 temporary Willpower) at some point in their lives die. Since this is mostly older Terrestrials, it still causes massive disruption in the Realm. (Everyl)
5. If every last Shadowland in all of Creation could be sealed up, the Malfeans would have no power in Creation, and thus the Curse would fade. Good luck sealing them all and keeping any new ones - even tiny ones - from reopening. (Everyl)
6. If an Abyssal were to be redeemed he would not be affected by the Great Curse. The Malfeans, wanting a servant they control, and not one that will snap at any moment, they remove the Curse. - Paladinltd
7. Like #2, but killing the Celestials won't work. Instead, they must be forced to abandon the GoD for an entire year - a year that will be moonless, possibly sunless, and extremely unlucky. And good luck getting them to quit! (Erinye)
8. Much as the Yozis are bound on their names, so is the Great Curse bound on those of the Exalts. A fundamental change of the Exalts nature would wipe the curse right off. Convincing one of the Celestines to alter their chosen, or convincing Lytek to do a wash-and-spin on the shards, however, is the hard part. Possible examples include combining chosen (resulting in Celestial Exalts as a group, affecting fate and being Princes of Creation at once) or dividing them into smaller fragments, resulting in 5 separate sub-types of Solar, for example, each with their own slightly different version of orichalcum (much as the Terrestrials, while one type of chosen, have five sub-types). -- GregLink
9. Get Autocthon to do it. He's a Primordial, came up with the idea of Exaltation, and is especially well-versed in the original design of the Exalted as we know them. Plus, he's got a curse-free version of his Exalted right there to compare to. Waking the SOB up, and getting him to fix them, however, might be a different matter. -- GregLink
10. Get Gaia to do it. She's a primordial, and while not having as much Exalted-fu as Autobot, probably has the juice to do it. A bigger problem with her would be not only convincing her (probably easy enough, actually, if you can get her away from the games), but also coming up with the method by which she should do it. There would need to be some serious lore+occult going on to come up with an appropriate plan. Letting her do it on her own would probably result in a sub-dimension with only, say, 100 humanoids in it, and the 100 Sidereal shards. Accelerate time, and let natural selection pick the most curse-free version! (Gotta watch that Gaia). -- GregLink
11. The Curse cannot be lifted. However, with Autochthon' conquest of Creation ushering in the Third Age, it can be mostly assuaged. The Machine God subsumes Gaia and merges his own Primordial flesh with the fabric of the world; on sunny days, the Imperial Mountain can be seen glimmering in sympathy with the crystalline Godhead. All Celestial exalts are assigned a "cradle," a great contrivance of theoplastic tubing, vulcanized rubber and delicate syringes, culminating with a bolt of the approrpiate Magical Material. At least once a month, all Solars and Lunars are forced into their respective Cradles to have the Limit drained bodily from them. This process is both painful and deeply violating; it leaves its recipients weak for a full day afterward. The Sidereals, due to the collective nature of their Curse, are banned from ever leaving their Cradles; all one hundred of the Maiden's Chosen are ensconced in a great, tiered chamber at the heart of the Loom of Fate, entrapped in paroxysms of agony as the power of the Primordials' last malediction is sluiced out of their souls. The Dragon-Blooded are left otherwise alone; however, should a Terrestrial fall into anima flux, she is immediately enwrapped in a cocoon of Primordial capillaries and drained of life. In this new era, the Alchemical Exalted perform most of the heroic tasks that once fell to the Celestials. Solars and Lunars are used as powerful aides, more like well-trained hounds than anything else. The Dragon-Blooded, once again, serve as basic footsoldiers and workmen to the Autochthonian Nations. The Sidereals, though unable to physically perform any tasks, are still valued for their ability to perform Astrology; Autochthon cannot sever them from the Tapestry of Creation and, with his own integration into that Tapestry, finds his entire being suddenly inside Fate (another reason for the imprisonment of the Sidereals). -- OhJames

Comments

This brings up one other issue. No existing Exalt type (cursed or not) has nothing analogous to the Great Curse. There's resonance, clarity, etc. If the Great Curse were to be removed, what would stand in its place? As the Exalts that are most Curse-free, the Alchemicals are actually tied to their patron, hearing his thoughts, and inadvertently taking on his characteristics. Would we see that Solars start becoming more King-like, with yet more perfection? Would the different Sidereal castes take on yet more of the ways of their benefactors, and have an even greater insight into the loom? This could be part of the reason that the pre-primordial war days were so different - perhaps the Exalts themselves had a direct line to their bosses' subconscious. Or is it something else? Some other personality-affecting system ranked on a 10-point scale? -- GregLink

Alchemicals have Clarity for the same reason that Fair Folk have Lures... so that everyone can be unmade by their great passions/internatures. It's a Meta-Game issue. -Dasmen

But it's also a game issue. Mortals don't have anything like limit. Exalts all have something like it. So the question is a fundamental game-world one. Does the same coolness that makes you able to stunt (thus overlaying your will on reality) also necessarily have drawbacks of the great internature type? Or is it something else, that the process of Exaltation is inherently too much for a purely mortal thought process, requiring some sort of change, modfication, or stress relieving valve? Alternately, is the concept of a curse nothing more than a subconscious imprint of your patron's being? Thus, Alchemicals hear Autocthon's subconscious, Abyssals hear the unconscious rants of the Malfeans, and the Celestials? Well, the great curse there isn't that they go bat-#### nuts, it's that they can't hear the song of perfection flowing from their patrons. -- GregLink

See as I concider Clarity a horrible cop out, and seeing as the Fair Folk have something JUST LIKE the Great Curse, in another cop out... I would put it as a game balence issue more then anything, so... No - Dasmen

I think that's a very interesting idea, GregLink. And Dasmen? Clarity? A cop-out? I really don't see it in that light at all; I think it is both mechanically sound and thematically appropriate for robot-people. And I find Lures to be the same way. They're similar to the Great Curse, as in they represent a distancing from humanity or some kind of moral failing, but they're really very, very different. I guess I just want you to explain your opinion a little more. -- OhJames

That theory of yours is interesting. But one has to wonder what happens when you get rogue celestial exalted, as they are likely to exist alongside Gremlin Alchemicals. Also, the DBs would so very much suck to be them, as they would in effect have the -smallest- essence pool available (without dying), as dot for dot even a mortal or godblooded with essence pools would have larger available essence. This is mainly due to my interpretating anima flux as any peripheral anima flare, unless you meant for anima flux to mean when they go iconic? Not that this is bad. But it would make for an interesting alt setting or ending for either an alchemical or celestial exalted game; a DB game with this start or ending would be painful for the DBs (and not for the players). - Haku @ work

I believe "anima flux" refers to the Terrestrial manifestation of the Great Curse - occuring at Willpower 0? - in which they are forced to act in accordance with their element, and seek to immolate, drown, bury, etc. themselves. Rules are somewhere in the character creation section, I think. Least active Curse of the Exalted.

~WillCoon from someone else's laptop.

Ahhh... the DB curse kicks in when they're at willpower 0 and they have some level of peripheral essence kicking... But yeah... I really have to go home to see what the rules are exactly and hope that OhJames replies... ^_^; ~ haku

Yeah, I'm talking about the DB curse when I refer to "anima flux." Rogue Celestials would basically be the new heroes of the Third Age; Lunars, Solars, and Sidereals who escape would be pursued by Wyld Hunts of brainwashed Dragon-Blooded led by Alchemicals. They would have to bargain with the dead, with the Fair, with Gremlins and with demons just to survive another day without having the integrity of their very souls violated. Or, you could play an Alchemical game like you would a Second Age Dragon-Blooded game. They're the Realm now, only it's the Robo-Realm. Loyal Dragon-Blooded would run similar to Alchemicals, though with far less social rank and in a far more subservient role. Disloyal Dragon-Blooded would be run similar to Celestial escapees, though with less power and pursuit. -- OhJames

That makes sense. Well... Rogue Celestials would likely be the new villians or heroes. What of the Abyssals? Hmmm, I would think the rogue sidereals would be the ones who would be the weakest, give that they wouldn't have access to alot of their former support, so no maiden approved charms, likely no prayer strips for their end charms, no SMA or access to the fate of loom or Yu-shan. And Robo-Realm sounds amusing. With the DBs in the role and position of patricians or 'lesser' exalted. Hmmm, I can see the DBs and mortals be told that if they did REALLY well, they would have a chance of being made into an alchemical after death, an elevated state to place them closer to the the Machine God, a modification of the IO texts. ^_^ ~ haku

Hmm... I wouldn't want to disable the Sidereals too much. I mean, they'd still be rarest because they would be the most heavily monitored of all the Celestials. So I'd probably say that the Maidens would covertly approve their Charms. They would still be able to invent and learn SMA without problem, they just wouldn't have their Sifus. I'd like to let them keep Astrology, but I've got to think how, since the Pattern Spiders have almost certainly been redesigned so that they don't accept Sidereal prayers. Abyssals would be relatively unchanged, since Autobot's conquest of Creation would not necessarily take the Underworld and would certainly not have any effect on the Labyrinth. They'd still be trying to annihilate everything and would probably have new allies in the forms of Gremlins and Void cultists. And I like that idea about the Immaculate Texts being rewritten to be in line with the Autocthonian methodology. -- OhJames

However, to get the maiden's approval, you kind of need to be able to ask her permission to learn said charm via paperwork, which requires them going to Yushan, which happens to be Autobot's home ground now. As for the no SMA, you'd need some one to teach you, unless you want to invent an entire style, which requires alot of things.

As for the abyssals, have to agree with you there, but I can see Autobot going after those to have them them -fixed-. And I'm glad you like the IO text being rewritten. ~ haku

Well yeah, Autobot would like to fix all the Abyssals and he would certainly try, but I doubt he'd succeed. -- OhJames

Nods... yeah... hmmm, one also has to wonder HOW the existing solars and lunars got convinced to be stuck in cradles in the first place, or perhaps, they got recycled and their shards were placed in humans loyal to Autobot. Also, you could make how often a celestial exalt needs to go into his or her cradle based on their essence, so the more powerful they get, the more often they get sent in. Say, Essence 1 to 2, once a month. Essence 3 to 4 twice a month, 5 to 6 three times a month, 7 to 8 four times a month and essence 9 to 10 five times a month. This would explain why 'tame' solars and lunars are weaker and serve as aides as the more powerful they get, the more often they get stuck in their cradles. ^_^; - Haku