SolarMelee/Darloth
a quick +accuracy dice branch for SolarMelee... I'm aware it's been done before, but this is my opinion on costs and powerscale.
Effortlessly Elegant Stroke
Cost: 3 motes Duration: Instant Type: Supplemental Min. Melee: 3 Min Essence: 1 Prereqs: Excellent Strike
At this level of skill, the solar exalted steps beyond the simple channelling of large quantities of essence to increase skill, and learns to combine skill and essence seamlessly, flowing from blow to blow with effortless elegance. The solar adds (Melee + Essence - 1) dice to a single melee attack. This follows the die-adder cap as usual. For example, if an essence 7 melee 6 solar has only 5 dexterity, then their mastery of the essenceflows exceeds their natural skill, and so the extra die will be wasted.
Deflected Battle-Essence Distillation
Cost: 1 mote Duration: Instant Type: Reflexive Min. Melee: 3 Min Essence: 2 Prereqs: Effortlessly Elegant Stroke
As with any art, with sufficient skill comes the chance to take refuge in your art, to dive into it and to let it sustain you past many normal limits. So it is to with those masters of Melee which learn this charm. Feeling the flows of battle-essence around them, these skilled duellists can be raised up and invigorated at each exchange of blows, drawing power from the test of steel on steel and soul upon soul.
Every time they make an attack, be it successful or not, the Solar can choose to activate this charm. It channels the heated essence of the strike and likewise the responsive essence of any parry to sustain the user, and so they regain 1 mote of essence for every success on the attack roll or every success on the parry roll, whichever is lower. The charm will not provide more motes than the user's Melee score in a single use (and thus a single attack), although it may be used as many times as desired per turn without penalty. If an attack is completely dodged without a parry being involved, that counts as 0 successes for the purposes of this charm. If an attack is automatically parried by something akin to Heavenly Guardian Defense or Impeding the Flow, that counts as an infinate number of successes, and thus the regain will be limited instead by the number of attack successes. Shields, cover, and other things that increase difficulty/reduce attack successes work on normal, you may only count net successes before active defenses.
As with most such charms, this charm may only be used in appropriately meaningful situations - the storyteller should not allow this charm to get 'free essence' just because two people are sparring with training swords, but it should certainly work in all lethal or plausibly-lethal combat, as well as official and meaningful duels.
2e Workaround - Generally the same, except for the following changes Type: Supplemental. Tags are: Combo-ok, Obvious. Prerequisite charms: Hungry Tiger Technique Whenever the opponent uses his Parry DV, you get back a flat 3 motes (for a total of 2 net after paying activation), but nothing if he uses his Dodge DV.
Masterful Warrior Instinct
Cost: 3 motes, 1 willpower Duration: One Scene Type: Simple Min. Melee: 4 Min Essence: 2 Prereqs: Effortlessly Elegant Stroke
Learning to extend the flows of essence yet further, the Solar sends spirals of aggressive essence towards his opponents, constantly probing their defences and optimizing his attacks. This ceaseless optimization of skill lets the Solar add a number of extra dice equal to their Melee score when making any attacks for the rest of the scene.
Comments:
Pricing comments are appreciated!
-- Darloth
Well, if it's comments ye want, then comments ye shall have. While I like the first one, to a point, it's a bit too cheap for my blood. Given that it essentially supercedes all but a 1 or 2 die Excellent Strike, it's a bit amazing. Dodge gets around this by allowing one to work on things you are aware of, and the other works on things that you aren't, to help differentiate. Perhaps something a bit less? Perhaps Melee+(Essence over 2), or something? I like the 3m, however. As for the second, it's only three deep into a tree, has only an Essence 2 requirement, and is a scene-long? I'd expect Ess 3 for such a charm, personally. I do like the mechanic, however. Finally, I don't recall a canonical scene-long similar to what you're describing for less than 3m 1WP. I'd see this go to 4m, 1WP personally, as offense is often weaker than defense, and doubling one's melee is a big deal in large battles, as assuming you'd already hit, you're just getting gravy on your damage dice. Assuming you wouldn't hit, well, now you will, so you're better off there too. -- GregLink, hating to make these weaker, as he loves powerful charms
- Actually, on further notice, the latter charm is simple, not reflexive. I'd say I'd be willing to accept 3m, 1WP, given that limitation. Begrudgingly, but I'd do it. -- GregLink
The first charm, as it stands now, should cost at least 5 motes; it is essentially just as powerful as CoCT, everbody's favorite base-book Thrown dice adder. At 3 motes flat, you're in the cost-range and prerequisite-range of Martial Arts charms that add MA dice to an attack, or some such. If you're not super attached to adding dice, maybe you could add Essence autosuccesses, or convert Melee dice to autosuccesses if you want to keep the cost the same. That will keep this charm from completely nullifying Excellent Strike, or being utterly broken in combination with it.
The second charm, I agree that 3 motes 1 willpower is appropriate. Alternately, leave it as it is, but add Essence dice instead of Melee. - IanPrice
You can't combine two dice adders, you rapidly hit the limit. Excellent Strike is a 1/1 charm, it's going to be outclassed by almost any other effect, and it's horribly inefficient. Cascade of Cutting Terror is -way- more effective, doesn't actually stop you from adding more dice, makes an attack undodgable, and is generally the best use of 5 motes ever to grace the core, but it's in thrown, so I don't mind so much. Yes, I admit that EES is better than ES in nearly every circumstance... but solars have lots of speedbumps. Sadly, for an attack-adder, there's very little you can do that will keep ES from being pointless due to the fact that it is in nearly every circumstance a waste of essence. Adding Essence autosuccesses is actually more powerful in my opinion, it prevents you botching for a start. Converting melee dice into successes doesn't feel very solar... I'd prefer to keep it like it is, although I do agree it -feels- powerful for the cost, look at what other charms do for usually very little essence. I'll up the 2nd charm to 3m, it's probably worth it, but I'm not sure about the first. I could upcost it to 4m, but it's certainly not worth 5... Examining Shadow Over Water, which grants an action, essentially adds Dex+Dodge(+Essence) dice, and is reflexive, all for 2m, as a defense. This charm adds less (If you're using PC) prevents you from using other die-adders, and costs more.
-- Darloth
- I did consider adding Melee+(weapon accuracy), but that felt kinda wrong, and Essence is the nearest round number that appeals. I suppose we could halve Melee+Essence, and then make it cost only 2m... That might work. That would be a range from 2 to 5... round up, you think? (It would be costing 2m then. Melee charms should be better than MA charms of a similar level, mote-efficiency wise.)
-- Darloth
- As a brief note, COCT is indeed brilliant, but is so because Thrown Charms are supposed to be brilliant. Otherwise it's just a sucky ability. Melee Charms that accomplish a similar effect should be rebalanced to take into account the innate superiority of the already prevalent pwnage of the Melee ability...DeathBySurfeit
- I know, and have done-so. This is in no way supposed to parallel CoCT. That isn't even a die-adder, it's a pool doubler. One of the side effects of that is you get to roll dice, but it avoid die-adder limits, and generally is great in other ways to. I'm considering adding such a charm, but I prefer melee to have simpler charms like this, and I think there's more scope for a CoCT clone in brawl. But that's a completely different subject ^_^
-- Darloth
- I think that the general consensus is that it just too cheap for a melee doubler - Dasmen
- It's not a pool doubler, it's a fixed-number die adder. They're moderately separate, and this one isn't as good. However, in acknowledgement of the vast weight of opinion, I've decided to nerf it by a single die. I think it's now exactly where I want it, if slightly more annoying to use.
-- Darloth
- It's not a pool doubler, it's a fixed-number die adder. They're moderately separate, and this one isn't as good. However, in acknowledgement of the vast weight of opinion, I've decided to nerf it by a single die. I think it's now exactly where I want it, if slightly more annoying to use.
All the other Exalt types have a sentence in their Charm rules that says, "no charm or combination of charms may add more than..." Solars only innately have a per-charm limitation. As per the core book (emphasis mine): "Charms often have limits, typically that a bonus they grant cannot exceed a character's score in something or that it cannot more than double a character's dice pool in an Ability." In my play experience, this is part of why Solars rock out compared to other fatsplats. Is there some ruling I'm missing out on? I checked all the writer quotes, and nothing on this. I'm probably way off the beaten path of the usual wiki interpretation again. - IanPrice
- I'm on the 14th page of the Errata: "Each kind of Exalt has some kind of concrete wall defined for them that limits the number of dice they can add to a roll via Charms. ... If those dice come from several Charms, they're still bonus dice added by Charms and you can't exceed your maximum." The only revision to the dice caps put forth in the Errata comes with Sidereals, who have two dice caps - one for Sidereal Charms, one for Martial Arts Charms. - David.
- Where can I find this errata so I can stop looking like an idjit? - IanPrice
- I'm really not sure where it's available these days. I picked it up at the now-defunct Exalted Compendium shortly after buying the corebook. Check at White Wolf's site, I suppose. - David.
I'm impressed that these two simple charms can generate such discussion... if you're talking about these so much, I shudder to think what's going to happen when I unveil my persistant attack...
-- Darloth
- Depends what you mean by persistent attack. Over at my Solar Melee page, there's a charm called "Encompassing Rays" that could be described that way, and it got less discussion than the prerequisites I gave it. - IanPrice
- Well, persistent attacks of one sort already occur in canon. Perfection of the Visionary Warrior is a persistent parry with a once-per-turn reflexive Brawl, Archery, Thrown, or Melee attack. :) I don't think persistent attacks are really a big deal, unless they're actually written to be woefully broken. - David.
So, I've put DBED up there, and I like it, I think it is Good. A couple of points I'm not 100% sure on, however - should it possibly be supplemental? If it were, when would you have to declare it? I think I prefer it as reflexive, but I'd like to hear opinions and reasoning either way if you've got it.
Aside from that, it may need a per-turn limit, but I don't think so. All multi-attack charms either cap at a set number of attacks or explode in cost, so it's not going to be generating any infinate-attack sequences any time soon, especially capped at Melee per use.
-- Darloth
Hehe, thought you might have forgotten to add it for a while, I've already payed the xp for it, gonna train it next session hopefully ^^ .. one thing I noticed though, is your specifying that you can activate it even when an attack fails.. .. kinda curious why anyone would do that though... as they'd be spending 1 mote to get 0 motes back :) I am thinking right that it's a gamble type charm though right, and that you have to add it before you make the attack roll? FluffySquirrel
No, it's reflexive, it can be activated by choice any time AFTER the attack and defense has concluded but in the same 'instant'... probably before anyone does anything else is a good ballpark timelimit. As to why you might want to use it if you fail the attack - because you'll still get motes. 5 attack successes parried by 6 parry successes will still get back Min(5,6,Melee) motes, probably 5. I'm considering making it a gamble as Supplemental, but right now if you're fighting a parrier, it'll prettymuch always be useful.
-- Darloth
- I am a wee bit concerned that much like JiAS, it quickly becomes possible for an Exalt to obliviate the need for Manses, downtime, et cetera. Tired? Just play whack-an-object for a few minutes with your buddy, and you'll both quickly refill your entire pool. Unlike EGT, you don't worry about actually getting 'hurt' that much, as you intelligently use your 'sword of el crappo' to attack, and he uses 'the infinitely supreme daiklave' or some such. I'm not saying it's a huge problem, but if you take this charm out of a melee context, and into a general 'hey, I can regain literally 25 motes per turn now by splitting my pool 5 ways', it becomes a bit weird. -- GreenLantern
- Exalted's Essence economy is basically meaningless outside of combat time anyway, though. - willows
I should probably put in that it won't work in utterly non-dangerous situations, such as training with mock swords. As to using the sword of el-crappo and splitting 5 ways, you may not actually get 5 motes per use if you're doing that... But I think it's mainly a job for the GM to actually say - it's a combat charm, don't exploit it. As an example, if you have some starmetal superheavy plate, you can do the same trick with EGT faster and with no risk, but that still doesn't mean I'd let you get away with it.
-- Darloth
Ok, I misread the attack not succeeding as getting 0 successes on the attack roll.. no problem there now.. hmm, I didn't notice you'd made it reflexive though.. that brings up problems.. because you can then use it on counterattacks as well.. not sure whether that'd be acceptable for you really.. But the thing I was thinking about last night was, if it's supplemental.. if you miss or they don't parry, you lose 1 mote.. which is fine really.. but if your attack succeeds and is parried, at 1 success.. you instead are left with nothing, despite the opponent having parried your attack.. which.. feels a bit off really. I'd maybe make the essence regen equal to lowest + 1, still capped at melee, then whenever they parry, you at least get 1 mote out of it, while still retaining the gamble of losing out if they don't parry? (Edit: .. actually.. .. -can- you use supplementals on counterattacks and other reflexive attacks?.. I was thinking not, but suddenly I've gone a bit unsure... ) FluffySquirrel
My personal opinion is that yes, most supplementals can be used with counterattacks and other reflexive attacks that grant an action before your initiative... supplementals require 'an action', they usually don't say when or where that action needs to come from. Now, Simples, no, even if they're an attack-modifying simple, but I usually say yes on supplementals. It's a bit fuzzy though. Also, if you roll only 1 success on your attack or they parry at only 1 success, yes, you get nothing. Deal with it, it was a crud roll.
-- Darloth
