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Hey Scytheus i need your help/notes on this. I know you prolly forgot about it (so did I), but I wanna try and be done with this entry by game after next. Not trying to rush you it's just that this is going to be an ongoing thing with our game, and well....the more we know about it the more "real" it becomes.

I'll admit that I haven't read this, but I'm not really going to talk about the content. Issaru, man, your typing is horrible. Your sentences run on forever, you don't use capital letters or punctuation correctly, and there are spelling mistakes on par with grade-school work. It's usually okay if you're typing poorly on IRC or instant messenger because you don't have a lot of time to spell-check, but this is a wiki post! I can't really give good feedback if the material is not pleasing to the eyes. -- Will

You realize this entire entry is three sentences long, right? - Telgar, agreeing with Will

You realize it's not done, right? - Issaru, agreeing with myself!
See, the Under Construction defense would have been much more effective if you didn't type like this everywhere. I've read entirely complete works of yours that have every single problem that this page does. I'm not trying to say that this page specifically needs work (even though it does), I'm saying that you need to spell-check yourself *every single time you post*, because every time I see your posts it's just one huge sentence marred by bad spelling and punctuation/capitalization errors. It's difficult to read and should not be that way. There's a difference between an incomplete entry and an incomprehensible one. -- Will
In response:

I can't really give good feedback if the material is not pleasing to the eyes
I don't recall feedback being requested of anyone but Dreaming Nymph and Scytheus.
If the syntax is a problem, don't read it. It wasn't addressed to you ANYWAY. Now, show links and proof of sites where the spelling and grammar is incorrect, and it'll be corrected. If they have already been corrected, then...
As a side note, I've been wondering why everyone has been spending so much time and bandwidth concerned with an obviously private page for the storytellers in our game. No one else's notes on their games are so heavily scrutinized, it isn't like the people involved don't post anything else, all of those entries are where they are supposed to be and noted as PUBLIC FLIPPING VIEWING. Continuing...

I'll admit that I haven't read this, but I'm not really going to talk about the content.
If you HAVEN'T READ IT, then how is your "feedback" going to be of any worth/interest?

Your sentences run on forever, you don't use capital letters or punctuation correctly, and there are spelling mistakes on par with grade-school work.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I have seen so many unbelievable grammar errors, spelling errors, and just plain garbage on this site... Last I checked this was an amateur site, I apologize if the ramblings of 3 people trying to come to some sort of agreement offends your oh-so-damned-perfect self.

I'm not trying to say that this page specifically needs work (even though it does) Then why comment on this page? Why not join the bandwagon on all the others?

I think the point I'm trying to make here is...Whine And Complain When The Entry Is Somewhere Other Than A Game Note Page. These are exactly what they have been touted as being. Notes. God knows everyone has been more than vocal about every little niggling detail on ANYTHING POSTED ON THIS WIKI. And, as stated before, if you don't like it, don't read it. I don't think it would break my heart. Issaru

So.. let me understand this. You're going to pull out indignant rage that I *dare* comment on a ST resource for your game.. when it wasn't even labelled as one? I didn't see any notices that you didn't want feedback from anyone but those two, or any notices saying that this wasn't for public viewing, and I think that something along those lines is required if you want to get pissy at me. It's not even listed under your Campaign Notes page, which is blank, but on your Weird Stuff page, which includes things like Manses and Artifacts. By posting this on the wiki without a notice like "ONLY <X> AND <Y> CAN COMMENT ON THIS", you're opening yourself to comments from anyone.

Also, I'm not calling myself perfect or saying that the wiki is error-free. But this isn't the occasional typo, man, you have an entry up there that's three freaking sentences. In order to make the wiki readable and accessible to all, you need to keep your typing clean and neat. Examples of bad typing include your Spells page, your Charms pages and your various Relay comments. An example of good typing is.. well, your response above.

Furthermore, I think you need to learn to take criticism better. This isn't me trying to diss you or put you down, I'm trying to be constructive and improve the overall quality on the wiki. This isn't about this page, but it was a glaring example of why I thought you needed some notice. Remember, just because it could be worse doesn't mean it shouldn't be better. -- Will

You know, it does say UNDER CONSTRUCTION in huge flipping letters at the top...and this is more a collaboration page about an organization in our campaign (prolly why it was addressed to Scytheus), more a drop tank of ideas for our storytellers than something that was presented to the wiki for inspection. When its fully complete and ready for the wiki nazis to look over, the UNDER CONSTRUCTION sign will be gone and I will (hell, we all will) spell/grammar check it. I promise. Until then, well, deal. Dreaming Nymph

Oh, Dearest, I do know what the word means. Words only have power when we give them the right to have it. The page was not saved as a minor edit, as it was paging another user on the site. Matter of fact, the update said something to the effect of (Yo, Scytheus). Are you him? And we won't discuss saving the world from bad prose, the Internet is built upon the backs of half-witted hacks who think they know everything.
Anyway, this whole thing still begs the question, if its an entry that isn't finished, didn't have "please comment!" like most of the things that comments are welcomed/warranted/requested/needed, why comment on it? Why not leave the whole thing the hell alone, as requested? Why should i apologize, and no apology in the forthcoming from others for involving themselves(way too deeply) in a place where they really weren't wanted? And if the minor change box is soooooooo important, why not check it before ranting around where you aren't needed? As I stated before, when this is complete (IF it gets completed) it will be here for public viewing, comments, puling, whatever else. Until then it remains as above. Deal. Dreaming Nymph

If I wanted anyone but Scytheus to read it the post would have said so!!! This was just a bunch of Ideas about something in a campaign I, Dreaming Nymph, and Scytheus are runing. It wasn't up for perusal so if you didn't like the spelling i'm sorry, but if you had taken the time to read "under construction" sign this may not have been a problem. - Issaru thinks under construction is just that!!! PS: you don't complain to the carpenter halfway thru building an addition that the walls are gone.

Hate to tell you, Issaru but "Under Construction" does not mean "Do Not Comment Unless You Are Dreaming Nymph or Scytheus". It means this isn't finished. And, as an artist, I happen to know that it is VASTLY more helpful to offer suggestion and critique DURING CREATION then after. If you carry errors through an entire work, visual or literary, it's much harder to remove them then it is when you are told about them early on. You have been consistently hostile to criticism. If you want a private site for you and your friends, create a Geocities account and give everyone access to the password. Or, gasp, use e-mail! The wiki is ALL public viewing. Especially when you splash something onto Recent Changes and don't label it "Do Not Desire Comments" or some such thing.
You need to chill. People are TRYING to help you, say that you need to write like you speak the English langauge with some degree of competence. Normally, Will and I don't get along, but I fully support him and everything he's said on this. You are being an asshat. - Telgar

Normally, I wouldn't get involved, but I had to ask... Where has he been constantly hostile to critisism? Unless you mistake "Thanx for your advice" as hostile, somehow. Anyone will reply and sound vaguely annoyed if it is constantly insinuted that they are dumb/can't speak the language/can't comprehend what the gods (small, really small "g") of the wiki are capable of understanding. Even professional writers (none of us, in case you were wondering) have editors, cuz they make mistakes two. Dreaming Nymph

Constantly should have been "consistently", meaning both time's I've read him repsonding to criticism, he has done so in a hostile manner at some point during the discussion. I have not read much of Issaru's work, due to a low tolerance for bad formatting and spelling. - Telgar

Oh, you mean the two times he's responded to YOU being a snarky asshat with the underhanded comments...If its so bad, and you don't read his stuff because it offends your sensibilities, why were you here in the first place? - Dreaming Nymph
Look, you've already singlehandedly turned a potentially-productive conversation into a screaming flamewar, stop adding fuel to the fire with name-calling. EDIT: THIS INCLUDES EVERYONE. -- Will
No One Can Fight By Themselves! We are all to blame! Although I would like you to consider this: If you had posted constructive comments instead of a string of insults, would this have ever happened? -Issaru Not trying to point fingers, but you really need to work on how you talk/type to people.

Upon reviewing the commentary of Issaru's I've read (and didn't know was his because of taglessness), he generally does respond politely and well. I apologize for my generalization about his acceptance of criticism. - Telgar

Accepted! - Issaru

Not that I don't like a good wikiwar but I went ahead and did a spot of spell checking on the document. Issaru if you want to use it to ward off further complaints cool. Those who are unhappy with the page as is read the one under the link. I do not intend offence to either side of this disagreement and seek only to end this in a quiet manner.

Ideas not bad I like the idea of a secret cult living in tunnels beneath a seemingly normal village with the people on the surface acting as living camoflague. Though i doubt that the small village of sun worshippers would have the resources to maintain the shugunate forge

-- Ageis

Thanx bunches!! I never wanted to cause such a ruckus with the things I have posted. I responded in anger when I felt insulted.
- Issaru Bows head in shame for giving in to anger
IMO (don't know the final ruling yet)The children don't maintain it it's just there, so are a lot of the other Artifacts that they have (most of them i assume are for solars, and they aren't sharing yet). Hope this clears that up a bit. Thanx again - Issaru

In general I would like it if the critique came with advice, and not venom. I think we all should realize we have been attacking each other on a site devoted to community. We should all feel ashamed of ourselves!! I understand that I may not be the best typist in the world (or even in my house), but if you leave me a note about it (in non-insulting ways) I will edit the the offending parts of the page. On that note I will work on my typing, but we all have to work on diplomacy. - Issaru be shamed now ya hear