Dmccoy1693/TheoryofEverything

Primordials and Their Related Skill
Possible Lost Skills
Discussion

Theory of Everything

Welcome to the Theory of Everything. There are 23 Yozis + Gaia + Autocathon. 25 Living Primordials, 25 abilities. Hmmm coincidence, not in this theory. Why did the Primordial War end when it did? The remaining Primordials would forever be a threat of getting out of their prison and after the thousands of years they spent in that hell hole, they'd be insane, driven mad by their hatered and want to scrap all of creation, every god there and every exalt there and start anew. So why live with this constant threat? Answer: Every living Primordial has an innate ability. Gaia's is survival, Autocathon's is Craft (being the "Machine God" and all). As long as they live, all beings everywhere (creation, wyld, underworld, yu-shan, autocathon, and anywhere else) can use them. The Malfeans use to have innate abilities but inaddition to their names that they had to give over to Oblivian, they also had to give up their innate abilities. This means that during the war, the more Primordials the Exalts killed, the less they could do. So they worked out a way for the Primordials to live but it would require them to be locked in a prison for all eternity. Eclipse castes sanctified these oaths with enough power to last them all eternity.

[#Primordials]

Primordials and Their Related Skill

Gaia - Survival (See Lunar Theory)
Autochathon - Craft (He's the Machine God)
Kimberry - Sail (She's the Sea in Malfeas)
Malfeas - Endurance (He's the body for all the demons in that realm. In him, the Primordials can endure)
Ebon Dragon - Larceny (He's in charge of getting the Yozis out of there. He stole the Empress.)
Celelyne -
She Who Lives in Her Name - Bureaucracy (Everyone else says so.)
Adorjan - Thrown (Her main theme is a killer and thown fits her description the best.)
Isidoros -
Oramus - Lore (Games of Divinity says The troubled dreams of this creature of chaos still twist the worldly Wyldlands.)
Cytherea -

[#Lost]

Possible Lost Skills

• War (For 1st Edition)
• Integrity (For 1st Edition) - Yes, the social fu defenseive system was lost in the Primordial War.
• Brawl (For 2nd Edition)
• Resistance or Endurance (For 2nd Edition)
• Flight - Birds use Athletics
• Science - Yes Lore covers that now.
• Playing an Instrument, Singing, Giving a Speech - All are Performance now.

[#Discussion]

Discussion

Interesting idea. One of the things I like best about it is that it paints Gaia, and her Creation, in a different light. Rather being a sort of "mother goddess" that embodies life, in whose Creation life happens to survive in various ways, Gaia becomes a bit harsher, generating Creation specifically for the purpose of the struggle of survival. I dig that.

As far as the theory goes, it begs to have a couple of questions answered: 1) what are the innate abilities of the known Yozis and 2) what abilities were lost when the Malfeans died? - Wordman

And more importantly, what happens to the Yozis in February when Mr. Brawl and Mr. Martial Arts have a bit of a scrap? Do we think they'll make note of changes happening in Malfeas at the same time? -- Somori

Well, being that you've had thousands of years of development, led by the best leaders, with the best sages, you should be pretty far along, no? But we're not seeing Warp Drive, we're not seeing transporters (or really any effective long-distance travel tech), nor computers to speak of, nor anything of the sort. So I'd claim that technology and science were two to go. I might also propose that there's a fundamental need for certain things to be done. Hence, when the guy who handles academics dies, it rolls into lore. When the Primordial that handled oration died, it rolled into performance, or perhaps presence. It could be that not only are we missing some things, but that Creation itself needed to shift to account for the change. We hear stories of how in the initial salvos of the Primordial war, Creation itself was changed dramatically, in an instant. It could be that the deaths of the first Primordials to go not only got rid of the Primordial, but also everything that they stood for. Suddenly, the great scientists of the 0th just up and vanished, their work taken with them. Much as the Deathlords struggle for power, so the remaining Primordials seek to fill in this void, and take what they can. Autocthon grabs most of the concept of science, but not all. Some goes away, and a small fragment goes to Occult and Lore. Since Primordials are concepts, there can be some really fun interactions as to what happens when one dies, and the concept itself becomes 'free' again. -- GregLink, also a fan of this.

As an aside, if you are familiar with the no-longer-published-but-brutally-cool Primal Order, this idea (as well as GregLink's comment) dovetails nicely with PO's concept of spheres and what gods do to control (and therefore get power from) concepts. Given the imprisoning of the Yozi's (and, therefore, thier limited ability to affect creation), approaching their behavior from this direction seems like it could make campaigns much more interesting. - Wordman

Another random thought: this theory could explain the unjustified importance of some abilities (like Sail). They just happen to be backed by a powerful Yozi. - Wordman

Nicely Nobilesque reasoning. On a minor note, She Who Lives In Her Name struck me as being quite clearly related to either Bureaucracy or Presence. As for Adorjan? Thrown all the way, baby. Someone else posited a similar theory earlier, although I forget whom and when; the prime difference was that they correlated the the 'free Ability' of Martial Arts to the 'free Primordial' of Gaia...DeathBySurfeit

True, Martial Arts is a fun one. It's something accessible by all, and really the only good path for the Sidereals. It's orderly and controlled, but shows no preference. Hmm... such a vast and all-encompassing thing, yet so limited, with forms, and form weapons, et cetera. That'll be a fun Primordial when someone figures out which it is. -- GregLink, dying to know.

That's Gaia, silly. The Primordial of Creation, She's accessible by all, and the Sidereals' greatest calling. She and the Creation She represents is orderly and controlled, but shows no preference. A vast and all-encompassing construct, yet so limited, with myriad forms all discrete and yet included within its greater whole...DeathBySurfeit

I prefer Gaia == Survival, personally. Which is the premise the idea originally sprung from, at least relating to Dmccoy1693's lunars.
-- Darloth

I'd prefer Archery for Adjoran, personally. One of her daughters is the Arrow Wind, after all. - Hapushet

Interesting. Something that would seem consistant with the theory would be if the demons of the Yozis exemplify the innate ability of the primordial. i.e. Tomsceau (or however it's spelled, the battle demon) would be from the melee Yozi, the stomache bottle bug demon would be medicine and so forth. I might have to add that in. What are your thoughts? - Dmccoy1693

I'd be fairly hesitant to endorse that restrictive a viewpoint on the demons or, more specifically, on the Yozi. The Primordials were not so limited, I think. While they may have a core concept at their essence, it doesn't really seem necessary or appropriate that the concept be their entire definition - in the words of the poet, they are large, they contain multitudes. Moreover, it's an ill-fit for canon. As has been pointed out elsewhere, Ligier is reputed as an excellent craftsman, despite no visible connection to Autochthon, and Aluveia, the Keeper of the Forge of Night, is also an excellent builder, but she works (if you follow it up far enough) for the Ebon Dragon.

I admit, though, that this weakens my argument for Adjoran. <shrug> Maybe she is Thrown. Silent distant death does seem to carry a canon support or two... - Hapushet

Good Point. It does limit the Yozis to much. Corrilary gone. Dmccoy1693

Quick note regarding the Malfean theory... it's a fun one, and I like it, but it's explicitly non-canon. While the Yozi are probably connected to various Abilities (hell, Borgstrom wrote the Yozi and the Sutras from the Sidereal book, so it's almost certain), the death of Autochthon doesn't make Crafts stop working; I think they set things going and then that was that. The reason the gods didn't kill the Yozi? Look how much damage five Malfeans are doing, compared to 23 Yozi. Imagine 28 Malfeans. Iggg.

Based on the Scriptures of the Maidens in the Sidereal book, I'd support Larceny for the Ebon Dragon, Occult for She Who Lives In Her Name ("To known the world... is to own it."), and Thrown for Adjoran. - FrivYeti

That's an interesting idea. What if Autocathon died and craft stopped working? - Dmccoy1693

Well, you can create an argument for Ride for Celelyne. I would say Medecine for Cytherea, because all we know of her is that she helped make creation. Yeah, MA is a weird one, although you can make something of a case for She Who Lives Her Name(the approaches are somewhat similar. MA is more structured), I'd probably give her Bueracracy though. Adorjan I can see as athletics or thrown. It is know that the primordials have been chanced by their death/imprisonment, so that could make things difficult. There is also, what one Malfean with a name, He Who Holds in Thrall I think? Presence maybe?-FlowsLikeBits

I'd thnk that the concept of organization, which is central to She Who Lives In Her Name, pretty much requires that she be Bureaucracy. For MA, I think Cytherea is the best option. She's the one about whom we explicitly know the least (even if, technically, we know a great deal more than we do for several others) based on her description in Games of Divinity, and that kind of mystery encourages me to say that she and the Wierdest Ability Ever seem to go together. What we do know about her certainly doesn't stand in the way. - Hapushet, who wonders what happens to the theory when Second Edition comes out

Who owns the demon that gave the secret of sorcery to Brigit? Seems like a shoe-in for Occult. Oh, and what happens when second edition comes out is that Brawl realizes hes loosing a battle for mind-space, so essentially surrenders his word. In the ensuing chaos (in which Martial Arts grabs most of the domain of Brawl immediately), he claims another: War. Meanwhile, Endurance has been wearing away at Resistance for millenia. True to his name, he has outlasted his opponent and steals enough of Resistance that all that really gave her meaning is absorbed. He could not strip away the mental will at her core, though, and this resolute example of mental defense so stuns the other primordials that a new word, Integrity, is born. With the element of surpirse Integrity steals mind-space from some of the other primoridals, reclaiming some chunks from Endurance in particular. - Wordman

"Surrenders his word?" I think I detect another In Nomine fan. ;) Personally, when it comes to the 2nd Ed changes, I was sort of looking forward to the Time of Judgment-style Exalted adventure in which Amnebos, fetich soul of The Strength of His Limbs and Swarsek, fetich soul of Aynsithios (she who was sometimes called The Unyielding Tower) are destroyed, causing their Primodrial masters to die and be reborn in a different form... - Hapushet, whose current game does not, in fact, include plans for Primordial death, more's the pity