Revision as of 08:06, 5 April 2010

Heru's Length of First Age

• Heru

The First Age was a time of rule by the Solar Exalted. The other Exalted had their jobs and posistions, but it was the Solars who were the Lawgivers and the true Princes of Creation. From Exaltation to death, each Solar lived around three to five thousand years. For the simplification of math I will be using 5,000 years for the lifespan. In any game I run or write I will be using 100,000 years as the length of the First Age. Roughtly, each Shard had 20 incarnations within the First Age. This generation is based on the lifespan of the Zenith within the Inner Circle.

Holding Back the Tide

For most of the First Age, a Solar Exalted began to feel a tug on his soul would commit ritual sucide. The body would die and the Shard would be free to incarnate into another worhty soul. This tug represented a loss of something that was essential, as the denizens of the First Age thought, to righteous governership and authority. A side effect of this tradition was that the effect of the Great Curse was slowed, not stopped, but slowed.

At some point the Solar Exalted began to feel that the tug actually made them better governors. Instead of commiting ritual sucide they remained alive and in control. This did not have an effect at first, but eventually it allowed the Great Curse to gain a greater hold. Once it began this new cycle it grew and grew until the depravations of the Solars led to the Usurpation.

Divisions of the First Age

Below is a brief concept timeline that I just thought of. This is entirely my own idea and is in no way connected to cannon. It's basis is through my beleif that the First Age was epic in scope and time.

Primordial War - Not really part of the First Age, but no telling of the events of later years would be complete without mentioning this event in breif. It took years and began with a sneak attack and ended with the surrender by the remanining Primordials. During this event a group of Solar Exalted protected the Unconquered Sun and were given the great honor of becoming the Inner Circle.

• The Defense of the Glorious Sun - The five Solar Exalted who would later be made into the Inner Circle are forced to defend the Unconquered Sun from a number of Primordials. In the end the Primordial is slain and the Unconquered Sun is saved. For this act, the Inner Circle was given great gifts.

Generation of Rebulding - Before the Primordial War humanity was nothing more than scavagers by the end of it they became the unconditional lords of Creation. The remnants of pre-War civilizations were wiped out, with ruins covering much of Creation. This was a time that saw the origional birth of the infrustructure of the Solar Deliberative. It was a slow period of growth because they had nothing to look back to for assistance and they had only the barest minimum of infrustructure.

• The War of Thousand Flowers - Despite its very flowery name, this war was of major consequence. A group of Solars in the outback of Creation denied the authoirty of the Inner Circle. They remained firm in that the actions of the Inner Circle granted them nothing but honor. Such an action could not be allowed and the Inner Circle marshalled their armies to conquest. The battle was long, hard and dirty but in the end the Solars were killed and the Shards were able to incarnate in more worthier souls.

Generation of Growth - Once civilization was truly brought to Creation, the Exalted began to turn their eyes toward better development. At the begining of this Generation, the people of Creation were at the point of being comfortable. That wasn't good enough for the Solar Exalted and so they began a massive campaign to make everybody have the best. By the end of this Generation and the begining of the next, human civilization had reached an apex.

• The Wyld War - This was the name for the ongoing war between Creation and the Fair Folk of the Wyld. At first the Fair Folk got the upper hand, but once the Exalted realized what they needed to do the tide turned. This 'war' lasted for almost the entire length of the First Age, only stopping in the Generation of Decay due to the use of a number of massive weapons against the Fair Folk.

Generation of Golden Age - Could be conscieved by some as a period of stasis, but my most this was thought of as being the height of everything. The greatest cities, works of art, humanitarian efforts, Wyld barriers and technologies were crafted. Worship of the Celestial Incarna was at its height, and no god had to worry about recieving ambrosia. It was a glorious time to be alive.

• The Haun-Tek Conspiracy

Generation of Decay - No records survive that describe how this time came about, but come about it did. Slowly, over years the Celestial Exalted turned their eyes and hearts from the Unconquered Sun, each other and the world itself. Nothing but their own desires, their own needs became paramount. Many previously condoned practices (such as thamaturgical education of the masses) was banned as threats to Solar rule. The Lunars began to see themselves better off in the wild rather than in the cities. The Sidereals began looking so hard at the corrupt Solars that they did not notice their own coruption, instead of seeing themselves as the advisors and assitances that they were they began to think of themselves as overlord. The Terrestrial Exalted yearned to be in charge, forgetting that most of what they had was beyond their capabilities to understand.

The Usurpation - Eventually, the Sidereals gathered some Terrestrials and Lunars and began planning the deaths of their masters. This took a few years and saw the death of over ninty-eight percent of the Solar Exalted.

The Shogunate Era - Only within the First Age due to the massive amounts of Solar-built infrustructure, this Era was one of continual fall into lower tech. It began as mighty and glorious as the time of Solar Rule and ended in bloodshed and decay of the Contagion. The dissolution of the Shogunate truly saw the end of all that existed of the glorious First Age.

More indivdual activites will be described as I get the time.

Commentary

Actually, they give a pretty big hint. Chejop Kejak has been around since the primordial war, if I recall correctly, and he is at most 5000 years old or so. To be honest, 100,000 seems rather arbitrary to me. Given how quickly Solars fall into their Great Curse, it seems you're insinuating they made it a pretty far way before someone finally noticed they were utterly insane. -Gamerjoe

• I didn't know that Kejak was supposedly around in the Primordial War. I'm glad that you pointed it out though. The way I see it, 100,000 years is 20 incarnations of Solar Essence. The first few incarnations were just pasification and rebuilding. Then the next few were about stabilization and expansion. Then we have the Golden Age of the First Age, this is the period in which they cared about those under them. Then we have the Dark Period, this is when they began to fall into corruption. They had already done all that they could, civilization was brought to all and technology reached a point that all they were doing now were things that only the Solars could understand. It was because of this that the Great Curse really became evident and caused them to fall. For all we know, they had some sort of practice that helped to slow the Great Curse (they didn't know that, but it was a secret side effect), but as soon as selfishness made an inroad that practice fell by the wayside and the Great Curse grew. Then, as we knowm, comes the Usurpation. -Heru
  • Thanks Gamerjoe for the thought provoking comment. It spurred me into writing the history of the First Age that is now above. -Heru

Interesting play out of the history. Although, the sidereal deal with Chejop Kejak is a big hint, the bigger hint is in the Autochtonian book. They have a calander from when Autochton left near the start of the First Age and a written history of about 5000 years... - haku

• I don't mean to sound obtuse or set in my ways, but I never did feel comfortable with those numbers. I have always sort of ignored them. I just am dead set against the concept that those who fought in the Primordial War are the same ones who died in the Usurpation. That just doesn't sit well with me. Thanks for the comment, though I appreciate it. -Heru
  • Don't feel you're being obtuse. Like WW says themselves, Golden Rule first. For my own setting, I tossed out just about everything the game has stated as canon. First and foremost, it is your game, not ours. If people can happily rewrite Lunars and whatnot, why should the length of the First Age be treated any differently? My own comment was mainly to correct the issue regarding any WW statements or hints to the length of the First Age, not to tell you what you can't do. -Gamerjoe
    • Your right though, I shouldn't have the comment about their not being an official answer when their pretty much is. I find that their is no setting that I don't make tweaks to, I can't help it. And anyway, once the setting is in my hands I can do what I wish. -Heru

A mInor nitpic. It states in the sidereal book that Kejak was born right after the Promordial War. And that he is the oldest exalt aliv.

Also, Heru, Woulden't your length mean tha no oe alive remembers tha the First age had a glory component.?

Also,I think 5000 years I about right. The solar live, by default, 2000-3000 years, but they have charm to extend it to 5000-7000 years, and I sysprct must learned it. _Azurelight

Hey, Azurelight thanks for the comments. I appreciate them. Lets see now.

• While its good to know from an official perspective the ages and dates, I just don't like it. 5000 years seems to short and not epic to me. For example, I have always loved the fact that the Old Republic in Star Wars existed for 25,000 years. Or that the Galactic Empire in Isaac Asimov's Foundation novels lasted some 10,000 years. These are epic because the people live for about 100 years. For those who live 5,000 years, this is not that long.
• Well, currently 2,000 years have passed since the Usurpation and yet people still remember some things about it. Nothing in depth is remembered about the First Age. In fact in the current day no non-Celestial remembers that the First Age contained a number of Generations. All they remember is that it was a glorious time full of magic and wonder, where the very weather was at the command of the Exalted. Its myths, legends and traditions. That won't change whether its 5,000 years or 100,000 years.
• Most definitly learn it. I don't know, but I very much doubt that a corrupt Solar is going to want to lay down and die when he knows he is just one Charm away from adding extra thousands of years.
• This all comes down to the feel. I like long, mighty and ancient and so I made my First Age long, mighty and ancient. To each his own I guess. - Heru

I saw tha my last post came out wrong. What I meant to say is that 5K year makes perfect sense for your calvulation, that was all.

What I wan't to point out is that at least 3 celestials alive, canonically remeber the fist age with a fair clarity and quantity. Kejak, Raksi and Leviathan. are those I speak about. What you need to cosider is how the changed situation affects their motivations, This is particularly important with Kejak, since his actions more or lesShaped the 2nd Age -.

As for me The only thing I dont like about it is tha it does not allow for allive ancient Siderela mentor that remeber the first Age First hand -Azurelight

• Thats not the way it is at all. If Kejak is 5,000 years old then he would remember 3,000 years of the First Age. Because of his Shard he could remember more. And because of advanced viewing systems he could actually see even farther back in time. Plus, the fact that he lived during the Generation of Decay fits perfectly, he too was corrupted by it. His high level hubris is not natural but a side effect of the Curse.
• In addition to that, the Generation of Decay was a time of high technology and advancement. It was called Decay due to the moral falling that occured during this time not the technology. So it still allows those three you mentioned to have their knoweldges. It also provides alot of history to help them be the best that they can be. -Heru

Maybe Kejak claims he's only 5000 years old, but has fooled all the other Sidereals. Maybe he has a Gem of Immortality and has lived for over a hundred thousand years. I'd be more concerned about, "if the First Age was so long, why didn't more world-changing stuff happen during it than the Primordial War, the Solar Deliberative, and the Usurpation?" After all, post-Usurpation you've had the Shogunate, the Great Contagion, the Fair Folk invasion, the Rise of the Scarlet Emperess, her Reign, her Disappearance, the Re-Emergence of the Solars, The Appearance of the Deathlords, the Locust Crusade... um, yeah. A lot more stuff. It bugs me when a history goes like, "for 100,000 years there was peace. Now something happens, something IMPORTANT that CHANGES THE WORLD happens, about every five months." - IanPrice, For a thousand years, the Jedi were the guardians of the Old Republic... then the writer got bored.

• How do you know that other world-shacking things didn't happen, nothing that wrote about them survived. Remember, a Celestial Exalted lives for around 5,000 years a Terrestrial lives for 300, different timescale. My First Age is only 20 incarnations long, that is not alot of time for the rulers.
• It wasn't peace for 100,000 years. A lot of small internal wars happened, wars against insurgent Demons, Fair Folk, rebels, etc. At some points Solars rose up against and had to be put down. The Golden Age was a time of peace but everything before and after does not have peace a requirement. Most of those other ages were times of growth and development, then we have stabilization, then decay, then uprising, then the Shongunate. Their is a lot of room for adventure, for war for chaos and disorder.
• Another think is that things happen with so much frequency because the earth-shattering powers are coming back to Creation. Solars are reincarnating, Abyssals are showing themselves, so are Infernals. But in the First Age they were around from the beginning. And I bet that people who live 5,000 years want a stable government and peace (in theory) so that they can rest between wars and crusades. -Heru
  • So, why was a 5000-year reign short for each of these 20 generations of rulers?
  • Same Solars, same destiny, but only small internal wars instead of world-shaking and -changing ones?
  • I only know what you tell me about your First Age. If it wasn't boring, you have to be the one to say so. My personal standard is Capitalized Events. Any event which you can name with Initial Capital Letters qualifies as Big News, and if the First Age was 100 times as long, it should have 100 times as many Initial Caps Events. Otherwise, I feel cheated. - IanPrice, who reminds you not to feel bad, because I've been cheated by some of my favorite authors.

IanPrice, I understand about let downs in fiction. That is one of the reasons that I create my own settings and make modifications. I want things the way I want things.

• What do you mean by short. They lasted the max, 5,000 x 20 = 100,000. Any discrepency is placed into the concept of the ritual sucide I mention above.
• Well, unlike now the early Solars were pretty-much united because they all took place in the Primordial War. Not only that but the Inner Circle made sure things remained united.
• I wasn't actually going to go into really deep detail, but now that you made the challange I can't deny it. I will add the really important things that happened during the generations. -Heru

"My First Age is only 20 incarnations long, that is not alot of time for the rulers." You said this. That is what I meant by "short." I meant that you seemed to be considering a lifetime short, even though it's as long as half of recorded human history in the real world. How many epic things could a near-omnipotent demigod, slipping gradually from sanity, accomplish in 5000 years, even if he is at peace with his fellow demigods? Perhaps this is why Creation was once much larger than it is now. Perhaps the Underworld was explored during this time, and the Solars fought those ghosts who had taken up with the Neverborn. Maybe the Locust Crusade is not new, and has happened before. Perhaps they fought the Unformed in the deep Wyld. But you know what? That's maybe one thousand years right there. - IanPrice, noting just how ridiculously long of a time span we're talking about here.

• True, except for the fact that I haven't madeup the lifespan of the Exalted. This is something I don't understand about Exalted. The writers say that the Celestials live for a long time, and then they do nothing about it make it feel that way. Nothing about the Exalted setting has the feel of ancient for me. I want that feel of ancient.
• I like your ideas, I hope you don't mind if I take some of them and give them my own twist. I think that they fit perfectly. The way I see it, nothing escaped their notice or interest. -Heru

So y'know, something occured to me. 20 Solar lifetimes, right? That means at least 20 times, the Solars enmass were completely and utterly insane, shattering mountains covered in villages because they thought it'd be funny to fire Solar circle spells at the falling survivors, creating wonders undreamed of for 100,000 years (when you think about that and look at how far we've come in less than 10% of that time and without high Essence charms to aid us...), forming whole races through powerful magic so they could dissect them for fun and profit, and other such grand efforts... For 100,000 years? Why the hell is there still a Creation to play on?

Think about it. The Sidereals noticed the Solars going nuts, so they checked their Ultimate Crystal Ball to see what would happen. That tells me they weren't so much evil dictators as "Holy crap, they're gonna blow us all up!" So if this happened twenty times previously, what stopped them from breaking everyone's favorite toy? Or did the Great Curse sit and wait 99,000 years to activate (Going by the Solars only having 1000 years to break Creation)? -Gamerjoe

• No, the way I have written it is that for most of the First Age, until the Generation of decay, a Solar Exalted would commit ritual suicide when they felt a tug on their soul. They didn't know it but this sucide kept them from going insane and destroying things for fun. The Generation of Decay eventually happened when some Solars did not want to commit sucicide cause he was in the middle of a project. He was the first, probably Twilight, but eventually more and more Solars followed suite, and then you have the fall. This was described in the document so that I could have a First Age not completely insane crazy for most of it. - Heru, who loves discussing his thoughts.

A reply to your reply to me

Thats all well and good, and what you say is true , but you miss my point, A Kejak that persoanly experienced the entierity of First age WILL be diffrent from a Kejak tha has only sdee what you siad he has acessed to, in exactly the sam way tha a hitorian that has seen evry film of the second world war will be diffrent from someoen who was their. To me, the psyological impact of such things is important, lest the exalts are to de-humanized.

I don't realy have anything agains a 100k long first age, I just think you are neglecting certain aspects of it.

Azurelight- I am being hars again, aren't I ? :(

Your right about Artifact Scale, that is actually a cruntch system. This, this is entirely opinion and fluff. Kejak's personality is the way it is, that is a given and will not be changed no matter what. He has to be the way he is, because he needs to make the same decisions. Thus, you change his backstory to make sure that he is what he is. The end result must be the end result. So while I agree that in the real world a person is made by their past, in a game like this a person who must be the way they are remains they way they are. I honestly don't see a problem, so in this I won't be changing. I don't mean to be harsh, I enjoy the comments and the discussion, but this has no effect on the rules or anything but fluff. And, in truth, this doesn't change anything about the current age cause because I am not changing anything that made the current age the current age.-Heru

Thus, you change his backstory to make sure that he is what he is. The end result must be the end result.

Exactly. That was kind of what I was trying to say. Of course you are entitled to be harsh, I was equally harsh. I buy that he is the way he is, although the reasons might be a tad bit diffrent. That's exactly what I wanted to point out. if one thing that lleads to an end result chhanges, the another factor must be addes or changed for the end result to be the same. I am sick and tired of people who do not realise that. You, however, seem to realise that, so thir is not probelem. I didn't expect you to change anything. I am just curious what makes the end result the end result in this case.

Of course personal preferance matter. Ultimatly, it boils down to my obsession with details. Whenever I read somthing, my brain automatically scans and disects it, looking ti find hidden factors, because I am obsessed with consistency. That is the mains reason why I post stuff on the wiki, to have other evaluate it, so I can plug my own holes.

Basically what I wanted to ask was: Since something that affected them changed, what came instead? alternatly, how are they now?" In other words, It boils down to me being utterly unable to approach anthing in my lifre in a non-scientific manner. How ever, 3:00 AM is bad time to ask such things. Also, it boils down to me siply liking the discussion. If I come across as harsh somtimes , it is not because ther is malice in it, but because I am simply bluntly hones most of the time. I want you to know tha.

I truly Appologise if I came across as rude, tha wasn't my intent. -Azurelight

My responses to Azurelight.

• First of all, I'm glad that were having this dicussion. Its fun, its cool and its enjoyable. Never think otherwise.
• Now that I realize you were actually trying to bring up a point (a very good point, he is too important to change his current personality) rather than just nit-picking, you know, the standard my idea is different so your wrong (you were not doing this!) its all cool.
• I can't actually come up with an explanation of why he is the way he is. I mean I don't know everything about his backstory that would allow me to say what major events changed but yet made him what he is.
• I live what your doing. It is very fun to discuss my ideas and concepts. I really like doing things like that and very rarely can those around me actually talk to me about it, so this is very cool. And I don't want it to stop.
• No malice detected, just good ole fashioned questioning. I like that. So its all cool.
• Like I said above, I don't really have ideas on what could have made him the way he is. I will have to write more about the Generation of Decay before I can actually decide. Maybe, their was a major demon incursion, of the likes close to the Primordial War that he took place in. This could have had a lot of effect on both his and the rest of the Exalted's behavior. I'm going to have to give it a thought.
• I am really enjoying this discussion, its fun and enjoyable and very thought provoking. So its all good. --Heru

I should note that while I will agree that canonically the first age is 5000+ years, personally, myself? I hold the First Age to be somewhere between 20,000 - 25,000 to allow for a few generations of Solars. That said, there could have been solars who had over a thousand reincarnations (keep dying out in blazes of glory), and solars who've only reincarnated 2-4 times... making full use of life extension tricks. Irregardless, the First Age would have been glorious and decadent at its height ~ haku

Wow, just noticed this. I have to agree that the 5k First Age just doesn't fly with me. Even with the Great Curse (which is a few days sulking or temper tantrum) you'd not get Sidereal overthrow that quick. Add to that the fact that you have Living Memory of a united effort to reclaim Creation from Tyranical God Kings... There's just not a convincing argument for "Then the Solars turned their backs on The Unconquered Sun and began willy nilly being emo-tyrants". I lean more towards the 5-10 generations of Solars, based on a 2.5k lifespan. So 10-25 thosand years. No Living memory of why they should be responsible, play nice, or behave. General liscence to do whatever you want, time enough for the Gods to be truly caught up in the Games of Divinity. As regards prior comments of "Why is there anything left to play with?"; Solar vs Solar efforts will stymie a good deal of open warfare, Deliberative can and will trounce any solar displaying Creation breaking power because, not for the good of Creation but because said Solar may eventually mess up your personal hobbies. Secondarily, as far as I can recall mechanically speaking the Great Curse is more like the Emo Sulk. Intense, but lasting a short duration. It'd seem more petulent than terrifying, even if you had all the military might in Creation you can't mobilize it overnight. ~ SolVachel