Rulings/FormCharmAndNonFormWeapons

Date asked: 8 July 2006
Rule set: Second Edition
Rules area: Martial Arts forms

Form charms and non-form weapons. How do they interact? Say a Snake Martial artist have Snake Form active, but his hook swords were destroyed. His Abyssal opponent presses on with an overwhelming attack and Snake's best bet is to draw his knife and use HGD to defend. (Ignore the Dodge and Resistance defenses, they're irrelevant to the question.) The knife is now destroyed, but at least the martial artist is alive. But what happens to the Snake Form? Is it still active? Did it get deactivated automatically when he drew the knife?

On a related question, is it possible for the Snake Martial Artist to use Snake Strikes The Heel (a counterattack charm) to retaliate, say, by kicking during the same time he's parrying with his knife and HGD?

I don't expect canonical answers until Scroll of The Monk comes out, but until it does, let's hear the wikizen experts explain their reasoning. - TonyC

While Second Edition doesn't say much on the topic, there may be stuff from First Edition that acts as a guide:

• Exalted: Second Edition, pg. 240 - Form weapons for Snake Style
• Exalted: Player's Guide, pg. 200 - First Edition rule saying "a character cannot be under the effects of a Form-type Charm when not unarmed or fighting with an in-form weapon."

Discussion

Whether expert or not, my answer would be that Snake Form could remain active. Equally valid arguements come to my mind for both sides (the movements of the form would be disrupted by the inappropriate weapon, more important is the way Essence flows through his body, etc.), so my decision is simply based on the fact that I like to err on the side of letting people do stuff. On the other hand, it's cool to be able to stunt and force the MA-ist to abandon his form in order to live, gaining an advantage in the Essence and timing war. I'd say it depends on how important Martial Arts are in the game. The more of a focus it is, the more strict I'd be about it. But if you've just got one guy using Snake form and the occasional baddie, probably better to let it slide. - IanPrice

The way my game always handles it is that if your in a form, and you have to do something that is not allowed in the form, for that action you lose the benefits of the form. The form is still active, just not able to do its thing because of a knife which is not permitted. The form charm is not cancelled or now inactive by using a non-style weapon, because we feel that that would suck to have to reactivate it. Just like IanPrice, we like to allow things...to an extent. Madoka

yeah, pretty much the same here. You couldn't use Snake Strike the Heel with your knife, but if you wanted to kick someone, that's fine. I don't think we will ever get a cannonical answer to this, but this seems to work work for me. I just rule that an action with a non-form weapon can't benefit from those MA charms(weather ongoing or instant). The problem with abandoning is that it's pretty much impossible to resume it in battle. -FlowsLikeBits

One of the irritating things about MA charms (in 1E) is that while the rules make a big deal of saying that "using the form weapons of style is considered to be attacking unarmed when using Charms of that style", only rarely does this actually mean anything, because many MA charms don't mention specifically unarmed attacks. Second Edition is better, with the phrase "unarmed Martial Arts attack" showing up in the places it needs to in Snake Style, for example. Going completely by vanilla Second Edition rules, there is no reason to believe that using the dagger does anything at all to the form. You would not be able to use the dagger with Snake Strikes The Heel, however, because this charm specifically says it provides an "unarmed Martial Arts attack". In 1E, I basically ignore the Player's Guide rule quoted above, and treat any charm that allows or enhances a MA attack as if it uses the phrase "unarmed Martial Arts attack". -- Wordman

Did Scroll of the Monk resolve this question for 2E? -- Wordman