TrialByFire/ShunVersusMonkeyPage2

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The original page is getting a bit big (close to 80kb). I figure starting a second page might be a good idea, especially since after 30 ticks, neither side has gained a definite edge and there's no guarantee this fight won't last another 30 ticks or more. The location change also serves as a nice break.

Summary of Previous Episode

Shun and Monkey dueled at the beach. Monkey seems to be dictating the battle, but he has yet to breach Shun's triple-layered soak (armor, natural, and Twilight anima). Monkey's wounded, although this is actually from paying charm costs. After many fierce blows were exchanged, Monkey manages to force Shun underwater, where he hopes Shun's grand goremauls will be neutralized.

At the beginning of this episode Shun and Monkey are facing each other at the bottom of the sea. Shun had sheathed his grand goremauls and is waiting for Monkey.

The Combatants

The shorthand stats reflect the duelists status at the start of this episode.

  • TrialByFire/BrokenWingShun: IanPrice's champion, relying on the Celestial Monkey style and how its pinnacle charm allows him to use any weapon and armor with the style's charms.
S: -|--|--|-|-, wp 4/10, psnl: 25/0/25, prph: 1/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
Next Action: 34
Channeled Temperance once and Valor twice.
Distance from shore: 288 - 38 - 28 = 222 yards.
  • TrialByFire/MonkeyTBF : TonyC's champion, master of three different martial art styles and confident that this gives him the ability to find or make a hole in any given opponent's defenses.
M: X|/--|----|-|-, wp 7/9, psnl: 1/13/24, prph: 7/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A
Next Action: 29 (Clinch Speed 6 - 1 Drunken Form - 1 Tall Form)
Channeled Valor twice so far.
Note: For this fight, Monkey chooses not to bring his switchklaves.

Tick 30

Monkey swims furiously and kicks the seafloor right in front of Shun, raising a cloud of detritus. Using the cloud as cover and his ambidexterity, he grabs a nearby coral and uses it as a pivot. He spins three times, trying to kick Shun's leg from under him and should those sweeps fail, he locks his legs around Shun's and pulls.

Monkey aborts his guard and flurries four actions. The first is to kick up some dirt at Shun's face, hopefully obscuring Shun's vision and causing some sort of internal penalty. The second and third are sweeps. The third is a clinch. I intend to throw Shun's prone, although should I somehow get really lucky and get a bajillion successes, I may decide to inflict damage.

Shun watches Monkey kick the dirt up, remembering the motion of Impeccable Monkey when he did the same on the beach. He frowns, gathering his focus in a crouch and digging one toe into the sand. With a mighty shout, he stomps the ocean floor, sweeping his arms out to the sides. The wing of his anima sweeps with his arms, using the water itself as a weapon to push away both the cloud of dirt and the fighter who kicked it, splashing it away with a force that shatters the coral even as Monkey grasps it.

Shun will parry all four actions. The water is just a stunt prop, I'm pretending it has the same Defense bonus as my fist. I'll give up some of my base breath-holding time for the shout (I'll even make the Stamina + Resistance roll now if you want), but dangit, you can't hit anything forcefully without a good shout. If you like my stunt, I'd like to take the underwater penalty off my parry, since I'm using the water to my advantage. (this would give me a DV of 6 + stunt)
Let's see. Okay, take off 1 minute from your 5 minute holding breath time. Not that I expect holding breath to matter. Two dice stunt (and how about mine?). Sure, no underwater penalty. On the other hand, should my first kick (to throw mud to Shun's eyes) is higher than your Parry DV, let's say that you didn't parry fast enough and got some mud in your eyes. -1 to the rest of your DVs for this action? PS: Re: Underwater penalty. While stunting negates it for this action, external penalties substract successes, not dice. It's functionally a DV penalty to both Monkey and Shun.
Whups, forgot your stunt again. I knew I was forgetting something. You take the traditional 2 dice. My 2 dice: (1, 6) = 0 successes. Blah.
  1. Attack Declaration (flurry: kick at ground, sweep, sweep, clinch). Multiple action penalty is at 0, 0, -1, -2. Being underwater adds another -2 external penalty.
    1. Kick to throw mud: (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -1 wound + 2 stunt) = 20 dice.
    2. Sweep: (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -2 sweep -1 wound + 2 stunt) = 18 dice.
    3. Sweep: (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -2 sweep -1 wound -1 multiple action + 2 stunt) = 17 dice.
    4. Clinch: (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 1 orichalcum -1 wound -2 multiple action + 2 stunt) = 19 dice.
  2. Defense Declaration (parry, parry, parry, parry). + 2 dice stunt. Roll. (1, 6) = 0 success.
  3. Attack Roll
    1. Kick to throw mud: {5, 1, 4, 4, 4, 1, 4, 6, 5, 6, 4, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 10} = 10 successes.
    2. Sweep: {3, 2, 6, 3, 2, 4, 3, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10} = 13 successes.
    3. Sweep: {2, 1, 5, 4, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9, 10} = 6 successes.
    4. Clinch: {3, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 2, 1, 5, 4, 3, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10} = 9 successes.
  4. Attack Reroll: None
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
      1. Kick to throw mud: 10 - 2 = 8 successes.
      2. Sweep: 11 successes.
      3. Sweep: 4 successes.
      4. Clinch: 7 successes.
    2. Kick to throw mud: Vs. DV 5 (10 halved by Lost Monkey Form). No underwater DV penalty this action due to stunt. 8 successes - 6 DV = 2 successes. Shun got mud in his eyes and his DV drops another point.
    3. Sweep: 11 - DV 4 = 7 successes. Damage + 7. Shun also must make a trivial knockdown check.
    4. Sweep: 4 - DV 4 = 0. Fails.
    5. Clinch: 7 - DV 4 = 3. Shun's clinched.
  6. Defense Reroll
    1. Third MA Excellency invoked versus mud. +3 DV = 0 successes.
    2. None versus sweep #1, though the DV does remain at 5 for this now.
    3. Not needed versus sweep #2.
    4. Third MA Excellency invoked versus Clinch. +3 DV = 0 successes.
  7. Raw Damage:
    1. Sweep: 3 Str + 10 Form Charms + 3 kick + 6 successes = 22. Bah. I need to do like 31 raw damage. Better yet, 40.
    2. Clinch: Doesn't actually hit after all.
  8. Soak
    1. Sweep: 22L -> 22B (hearthstone). 22B - 25B soak -> Ping. 5 dice.
  9. Rolling damage. Don't bother. Twilight anima absorbs all possible damage. Shun activated Essence Gathering Temper: (1, 3, 3, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 10, 10) = 5 successes. 20m regained.
  10. Counter attacks: None.
  11. Result. Third MA Excellency invoked through MA Essence Flow saves Shun's butt. Monkey chooses to recover WP from stunt. Gains an extra wp from hearthstone. Shun gets stunt reward because his stunt (canceling the underwater penalty) actually enables him to avoid the second sweep. Shun chooses WP as well, and gains 20m back. Shun actually must make two rolls against knockdown, because the sweep was not only a sweep, but it also met the damage threshold for a KD test.
    1. KD roll 1 (Stamina + Resistance = 15 dice): (1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 10) = 9 successes. Even with the underwater penalty, fine.
    2. KD roll 2 (Stamina + Resistance = 15 dice): (1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 10, 10, 10) = 6 successes. Again fine.

Note: Corrected PDV, should have been one lower overall. Didn't affect the results.

S: -|--|--|-|-, wp 5/10, psnl: 25/0/25, prph: 12/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
Next Action: 34
M: X|/--|----|-|-, wp 9/9, psnl: 1/13/24, prph: 7/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A
Next Action: 34 (Clinch Speed 6 - 1 Drunken Form - 1 Tall Form)

Tick 31-33

Shun takes his 5 yard reflexive moves towards shore, leaving him 207 yards out.
Monkey follows.

Tick 34

Shun will guard. Description of defense will follow any attack description. Reflexive move takes him to 202 yards out from shore.

"Come back here and fight!" Monkey yelled. Or he would have, except what comes out is more like "blooph bluh blooloooh balh!" startling nearby fish and crabs. Nevertheless, he swims up and over Shun's head and as he passes Shun, his feet grab the sheathed grand goremauls and he attempts to yank them off. Using that leverage, he bends back and grabs Shun's legs and pulls. "With his footing gone, he'll plant himself face first," Monkey reasons.

It's pretty obvious that Shun is relying on his anima ability to protect himself and deliberately letting himself being hit so he can recover motes through EGT. Once or twice, I'll oblige, just to keep things interesting, but let's really try taking his toys away and stacking penalties on him.
Two dice, because it's entertaining as usual.

Shun bounds through the eddies of water and essence that swirl about from his clashes with Monkey, considering his options as he heads for shore. The sound of Monkey's bubbling voice brings a smile to his face. Allowing Monkey to discard his weapons, Shun slips away smoothly, rolling forward, coming up with an intent gaze on Monkey as he comes in for the clinch. He places a hand on the pirate's chest and frowns, shaking his head, just out of reach.

I'd like to let you take the goremauls away to wherever you like in exchange for no penalties besides Lost Monkey against the only attack I'm defending against. That defense is in fact a parry. Shun will also abort his guard and use Walking in the Footsteps of Ten Thousand Things. Due to the nature of that action, Shun will act again next tick. I'll wait to roll the Perception + Martial Arts roll until stunt has been decided.
Wait, how does Shun acts on Tick 35? The charm speed is until whenever the target of the charm has attacked the Exalt and then refreshed his DV. Charm is invoked on Tick 34. Fine. Monkey attacks Shun on Tick 34. Fine. But Monkey does not refresh his DV until Tick 38. As for penalties, whatever, sure. (less rolling = good.) Note: your Third MA Excellency only gives you +2 DV. This is because your parry pool is odd numbered, and as such your PDV has already been rounded up. Stunt... one. No significant use of the environment. Actually, neither was mine. You sure mine's 2 dice? Go ahead and roll the Per + MA
Serves me right for not re-reading my own charm wording. Yeah, I should go on 38 just like you. And yeah, I'm still giving you two, because I count entertaining uses of the environment like scaring fish and crabs. And yep, you seem to be right... my PDV will be 7 when I activate the third excellency. Rolling that stunt die for defense: (4) = nothing. Bah. Rolling the Per + MA, difficulty 10 due to wooden monkey form. Channeling Conviction and using First MA Excellency through Essence Flow, total of 28 dice: (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10) = 17 successes. 7 bonus dice on all attack rolls against Monkey in perpetuity even if I die and become a ghost, though not if I'm reincarnated normally, etc. That puts me over the die-adder cap, so I get a total of 10 bonus dice to hit between this and Body of War Meditation.
Impressive. Although if you do die and become a ghost, having those bonus dice will avail you none. :) Now, let's see how I do. Rolling.
  1. Attack Declaration (flurry: disarm, disarm, clinch). Multiple action penalty is at 0, 0, 0. Being underwater adds another -2 external penalty.
    1. Disarm: (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -1 wound + 2 stunt) = 20 dice.
    2. Disarm: (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -1 wound + 2 stunt) = 20 dice.
    3. Clinch: (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 1 orichalcum -1 wound + 2 stunt) = 21 dice.
  2. Defense Declaration
    1. Allowing the disarm attacks freely.
    2. Parrying the Clinch.
  3. Attack Roll
    1. Disarm: N/A
    2. Disarm: N/A
    3. Clinch: {4, 5, 5, 3, 1, 6, 5, 2, 5, 1, 1, 6, 3, 5, 7, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 10} = 10 successes.
  4. Attack Reroll: None
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
      1. Disarm: Another -2 external penalty.
      2. Disarm: Another -2 external penalty.
    2. PDV = 5 versus clinch.
  6. Defense Reroll (There probably will be one; whether DV is 4 or 5, it's not enough)
  7. Result. Shun's disarmed. Monkey also manages to clinch Shun and throws him down. Shun is automatically prone. Monkey gains 4m. Shun gains 7 permanent bonus dice to attack Monkey, and since that part of his stunt succeeded he gains 2 motes.
S: -|--|--|-|-, wp 4/10, psnl: 17/0/25, prph: 2/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
Next Action: 38
Channels used: Conviction 1, Temperance 1, Valor 2
M: X|/--|----|-|-, wp 9/9, psnl: 5/13/24, prph: 7/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A
Next Action: 38 (Clinch Speed 6 - 1 Drunken Form - 1 Tall Form)

Ticks 35-37

If the clinch succeeds, Shun can't move due to being thrown prone. Otherwise, he will continue to move towards shore. Confidentially, I'm just trying to put him in a shallow enough place that one leap can break the surface, 'cause I have some nifty stuntage in mind.
You can leap Str + Ath up normally. Underwater, we're halving movement, so instead of 12, you're leaping 6. Assuming a 1:10 ratio, you need to get 60 yards away from shore. If you just need to have your head break the surface, 70 yards away should be good.

Tick 38

Having successfully knocked Shun down, Monkey stomps on Shun's face. Hard. He holds on to a dead coral formation to gives him leverage and jumps up and down. STOMP, STOMP, and he drop-kneels on Shun's back, pushing him back down again and preventing him from getting up.

Three flurries: fierce kick, fierce kick, clinch.
Two dice.

With a face full of sand, Shun looks very much not the graceful crane. Yet as he pushes himself to his knees, he is smiling with new understanding. As if predicting Monkey's move, he rolls to the side just in time, dragging his arm through the sand to create a soft spot Monkey's feet could get caught in as he stomps, yet Monkey sees a mirror image of Shun still lying there even as he sees Shun roll away. Shun comes to his footing horizontally on the coral Monkey grabbed, leaping with shattering force into an exact copy of the attack inflicted on him by Impeccable Monkey earlier in their duel: punch, kick (to the groin), headbutt, knee, and elbow.

Flurrying getting up, clinch attempt (trap Monkey's legs in sand), punch, kick, punch, kick, punch. Activating Light, Mirror and Shadow Combo. Shadow Over Water against the fierce kicks, Seven Shadow Evasion against the Clinch. Applying Four Halo Golden Monkey Palm to the first punch. Channeling Conviction on the last punch.
Two dice. Monkey responds with his own combo, Monkeys In The Orchard. I got to go, so I can't resolve it right away, but feel free to start rolling. Defense would be SOW + Catching on each and every one of your attack. This steals your motes, potentially wiping out your mote reserve. You could abort your flurry if it gets too low though. - TonyC
Stunt dice for defense and to see if I get any motes back: (3, 5) Nope. And I'm out of motes after one attack.

(Monkey's attacks)

  1. Attack Declaration (flurry: fierce kick, fierce kick, clinch). Multiple action penalty is at 0, 0, 0. Being underwater adds another -2 external penalty.
    1. Fierce kick (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -1 wound -1 fierce + 2 stunt) = 19 dice.
    2. Fierce kick (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -1 wound -1 fierce + 2 stunt) = 19 dice.
    3. Clinch: (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 1 orichalcum -1 wound + 2 stunt) = 21 dice.
  2. Defense Declaration
    1. Dodge with SOW.
    2. Dodge with SOW.
    3. Dodge with SSE.
  3. Attack Roll
    1. Fierce Kick: {2, 2, 3, 6, 6, 3, 4, 6, 6, 2, 4, 1, 6, 2, 7, 8, 10, 10, 10} = 8 successes.
    2. Fierce Kick: {4, 2, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1, 5, 3, 5, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10} = 9 successes.
    3. Clinch: Not bothering. Perfect defense.
  4. Attack Reroll: None
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
      1. Fierce kick 1: 8 - 2 = 6 successes.
      2. Fierce kick 1: 9 - 2 = 7 successes.
      3. Clinch: N/A
    2. Dodge DV (10 dex + 5 dodge + 5 essence + 2 specialty + 3 bracers = 25)/2 = 13
      1. Fierce kick 1: 6 vs. DV 13. Fails.
      2. Fierce kick 2: 7 vs. DV 13. Fails.
      3. Clinch : Vs. perfect dodge. Fails.
  6. Defense Reroll: None
  7. Damage
  8. Soak
  9. Counter-attacks: None
  10. Result. Shun regains 4m or 1wp for successful defense.
I'm reorganizing Shun's attacks so that it'll flow better. Otherwise the resulting flood of numbers are really hard to read. Ian also forgot to add his two stunt dice to Shun's attack pools, but even if he get double-tens, all his attacks would still have failed anyway. - TonyC

(Shun's attacks) (flurry: clinch attempt (trap Monkey's legs in sand), punch, kick, punch, kick, punch). Multiple action penalty is at 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. Being underwater adds another -2 external penalty.

  1. Shun's 1st Attack Declaration: Clinch: (10 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 2 specialty - 8 penalty + stunt) = 18 dice + 2 successes.
  2. Defense Declaration: Shadow Over Water + Catching the Thrown Focus: DDV (5 dex + 5 dodge + 10 bonus + 5 Essence = 25)/2 = DDV 13.
  3. Attack Roll Clinch (2, 2, 2, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10) + 2 = 15
  4. Attack Reroll: Clinch (3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10) + 2 = 11
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
    2. Drunken Monkey -5.
    3. 15 - 2 - 5 = 8 vs. DDV 13. Fails. JiAS (5 Essence + 2 stunt) {9, 4, 10, 5, 9, 8, 1} = 5 successes -> 10m.
  6. Result: Clinch fails. Monkey spent 5m for defense. Stole 7m. JiAS 10m. Monkey notices that he's not getting as many motes (7m) as he ought to (8m). Shun's out of motes!
S: -|--|--|-|-, wp 1/10, psnl: 0/0/25, prph: 0/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
M: X|/--|----|-|-, wp 8/9, psnl: 11/13/24, prph: 11/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A
  1. Shun's 2nd Attack Declaration: Punch (10 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 2 specialty + 1 fist - 9 penalty + stunt) = 18 dice + 2 successes.
  2. Defense Declaration: Shadow Over Water + Catching the Thrown Focus: DDV (5 dex + 5 dodge + 10 bonus + 5 Essence = 25)/2 = DDV 13.
  3. Attack Roll: Punch (1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10) + 2 = 7
  4. Attack Reroll: None (out of motes)
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
    2. Drunken Monkey -5.
    3. First Punch suffers additional -3.
    4. 7 - 2 - 5 - 3 = -3 vs. DDV 13. Fails. JiAS {1, 6, 8, 9, 8, 10, 8} = 6 successes -> 12m, but only got 8m since mote pools are full.
  6. Counterattacking with fierce kick.
    1. Attack Declaration: fierce kick. Spending 1 lhl and 1wp to make damage aggravated. (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -1 wound -1 fierce + 2 stunt) = 19 dice.
    2. Defense Declaration: Dodge/Parry whichever is higher. Let's see, PDV is (10 Dex + 5 MA + 2 spec + 2 hand)/2 round up) = 10. Underwater is -2. Halved by Lost Monkey Form -> PDV 4. Dodge is (10 Dex + 5 Dodge + 5 Essence + 2 spec + 3 bracer)/2 round up = 13. Underwater is -2. Halved by Lost Monkey Form -> DDV 5. But this is affected by Onslaught.
    3. Attack Roll. Fierce Kick: 19 dice: {4, 6, 5, 2, 5, 5, 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10} = 14 successes.
    4. Attack Reroll: None.
    5. External Penalties: 14 - 2 underwater - DDV 5 = 7 successes.
    6. Defense Reroll: None. Out of motes.
    7. Damage: 3 Str + 10 Form Charms + 3 kick + 2 fierce + 7 successes = 25A.
    8. Soak: Moonsilver Superheavy Plate: 15A. 25-15= 10A.
      1. Invoking Life-Severing Blow. Spending 10m to buy 5 automatic damage successes.
      2. Rolling 5A. {6, 10, 2, 3, 3} = 1 success. Total 6 agg hl.
      3. Twilight anima absorbs 5 ahl.
    9. Result. Shun takes 1 Agg hl. Monkey spent 5m on defense and 10m on LSB. He gains 8m from JiAS.
S: *|--|--|-|-, wp 1/10, psnl: 0/0/25, prph: 0/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
M: X|X/-|----|-|-, wp 7/9, psnl: 11/13/24, prph: 4/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A
  1. Shun's 3rd Attack Declaration: Kick (10 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 2 specialty - 10 penalty + stunt) = 16 dice + 2 successes.
  2. Defense Declaration: Shadow Over Water + Catching the Thrown Focus: DDV 13.
  3. Attack Roll: Kick (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 10) + 2 = 10
  4. Attack Reroll: None (out of motes)
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
    2. Drunken Monkey -5.
    3. Kick: 10 - 7 vs. DDV 13. Fails. JiAS {6, 7, 5, 2, 5, 4, 10} = 3 successes -> 6m.
  6. Result: Kick misses. Monkey spent 5m for defense. JiAS 6m.
M: X|X/-|----|-|-, wp 7/9, psnl: 11/13/24, prph: 5/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A
  1. Shun's 4th Attack Declaration: Punch (10 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 2 specialty + 1 fist - 11 penalty + stunt) = 16 dice + 2 successes.
  2. Defense Declaration: Shadow Over Water + Catching the Thrown Focus: DDV 13.
  3. Attack Roll: Punch (1, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10) + 2 = 11
  4. Attack Reroll: None (out of motes)
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
    2. Drunken Monkey -5.
    3. Punch: 11 - 7 vs. DDV 13. Fails. JiAS {9, 2, 6, 2, 8, 10, 7} = 4 successes -> 8m.
  6. Counterattacking with fierce kick.
    1. Attack Declaration: fierce kick. Spending 1 lhl and 1wp to make damage aggravated. (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone -1 wound -1 fierce + 2 stunt) = 19 dice.
    2. Defense Declaration: Dodge is (10 Dex + 5 Dodge + 5 Essence + 2 spec + 3 bracer)/2 round up = 13. Underwater is -2. Onslaught is -1. Halved by Lost Monkey Form -> DDV 5..
    3. Attack Roll. Fierce Kick: 19 dice: {3, 1, 4, 4, 2, 2, 4, 5, 2, 3, 4, 2, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9} = 6 successes.
    4. Attack Reroll: None.
    5. External Penalties: 6 - 2 underwater - DDV 5 = -1 successes. Dodged!
    6. Defense Reroll: None.
  7. Result. Both attack and counterattack miss. Monkey spent 5m on defense. He gains 8m from JiAS.
S: *|--|--|-|-, wp 1/10, psnl: 0/0/25, prph: 0/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
M: X|XX/|----|-|-, wp 6/9, psnl: 11/13/24, prph: 8/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A
  1. Shun's 5th Attack Declaration: # Kick (10 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 2 specialty - 12 penalty + stunt) = 14 dice + 2 successes.
  2. Defense Declaration: Shadow Over Water + Catching the Thrown Focus: DDV 13.
  3. Attack Roll: Kick (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10) + 2 = 11
  4. Attack Reroll: None (out of motes)
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
    2. Drunken Monkey -5.
    3. Kick: 11 - 7 vs. DDV 13. Fails. JiAS {10, 2, 6, 6, 10, 9, 10} = 7 successes = 14m, but only got 11m since mote pools are full.
  6. Counterattacking with fierce punch.
    1. Attack Declaration: fierce punch. Spending 1 lhl and 1wp to make damage aggravated. (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 1 accuracy + 1 orichalcum -2 wound -1 fierce + 2 stunt) = 20 dice.
    2. Defense Declaration: Dodge is (10 Dex + 5 Dodge + 5 Essence + 2 spec + 3 bracer)/2 round up = 13. Underwater is -2. Onslaught is -2. Halved by Lost Monkey Form -> DDV 4..
    3. Attack Roll. Fierce Punch: 20 dice: {4, 3, 5, 3, 2, 1, 3, 4, 2, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9} = 10 successes.
    4. Attack Reroll: None.
    5. External Penalties: 10 - 2 underwater - DDV 4 = 4 successes.
    6. Defense Reroll: None. Out of motes.
    7. Damage: 3 Str + 10 Form Charms + 2 fierce + 4 successes = 21A.
    8. Soak: Moonsilver Superheavy Plate: 15A. 21-15= 6A.
      1. Invoking Life-Severing Blow. Spending 10m to buy 5 automatic damage successes.
      2. Rolling 1A. {7} = 1 success. Total 6 agg hl.
      3. Twilight anima absorbs 5 ahl.
    9. Result. Shun takes 1 Agg hl. Monkey spent 5m on defense and 10m on LSB. He gains 11m from JiAS.
S: *|*-|--|-|-, wp 1/10, psnl: 0/0/25, prph: 0/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
M: X|XXX|/---|-|-, wp 5/9, psnl: 11/13/24, prph: 4/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A
  1. Shun's 6th Attack Declaration: # Punch (10 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 2 specialty + 1 fist + 5 Conviction - 13 penalty + stunt) = 19 dice + 2 successes.
  2. Defense Declaration: Shadow Over Water + Catching the Thrown Focus: DDV 13.
  3. Attack Roll: Punch (1, 1, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10) + 2 = 15
  4. Attack Reroll: None (out of motes)
  5. External Penalties
    1. Underwater. -2 external penalty.
    2. Drunken Monkey -5.
    3. Punch: 15 - 7 vs. DDV 13. Fails. JiAS {2, 3, 5, 5, 1, 3, 10} = 2 successes -> 4m.
  6. Counterattacking with clinch
    1. Attack Declaration: clinch. Spending 1 lhl and 1wp to make damage aggravated. Spending wp to channel Valor. (5 Dex + 10 MA + 4 hearthstone + 1 orichalcum + 5 Valor -2 wound + 2 stunt) = 25 dice.
    2. Defense Declaration: Dodge is (10 Dex + 5 Dodge + 5 Essence + 2 spec + 3 bracer)/2 round up = 13. Underwater is -2. Onslaught is -3. Wound is -1. Halved by Lost Monkey Form -> DDV 3.. PDV is (10 Dex + 5 MA + 2 spec + 2 hand)/2 round up) = 10. Underwater is -2. Wound is -1. Halved by Lost Monkey Form -> PDV 3
    3. Attack Roll: {3, 2, 6, 4, 5, 4, 2, 3, 4, 1, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10} = 21 successes.
    4. Attack Reroll: None
    5. External Penalties: 21 - 2 underwater - DV 3 = 16 successes.
    6. Defense Reroll: None. Out of motes.
    7. Damage: 3 Str + 10 Form Charms + 16 successes = 29A. Piercing.
    8. Soak: Moonsilver Superheavy Plate: 7A vs Piercing. 29-7 = 22A.
      1. Invoking Life-Severing Blow. Spending 10m to buy 5 automatic damage successes.
      2. Rolling 17A. {1, 2, 6, 6, 1, 5, 1, 3, 5, 6, 2, 5, 7, 9, 10, 10, 10} = 5 damage successes. Total 10 agg hl.
      3. Twilight anima absorbs 5 ahl.
    9. Result. Shun takes 10 Agg hl. Monkey spent 5m on defense and 10m on LSB. He gains 4m from JiAS.
S: *|**|**|*|*, wp 1/10, psnl: 0/0/25, prph: 0/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
M: X|XXX|X/--|-|-, wp 3/9, psnl: 4/13/24, prph: 0/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A

Overall result: Shun's Incapacitated. He technically gets 4m from stunt reward. Monkey also gets 4m from stunt reward.

S: *|**|**|*|*, wp 1/10, psnl: 4/0/25, prph: 0/48/81, ECG: 0/75/75, DV plty: -0, Soak: 25B/20L/15A, Hardness: 10B/10L/10A
M: X|XXX|X/--|-|-, wp 3/9, psnl: 8/13/24, prph: 0/43/57, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/5A

As Shun's crane totem blazes forth, so does Monkey's white gorilla rises to answer the challenge. The two beings struggle to their utmost, attacking and counter-attacking. Bubbles rise with every single movement, obscuring the view, as if their solar essences are boiling the very sea itself. Fishes, beasts, elementals, and small gods hide themselves. But although Monkey seems to have the upper hand, those with masterful eyes can tell that Monkey is expending so much effort he is injuring himself internally. But suddenly the bubbles clear and the currents cease, and the gorilla is holding the crane aloft, and with an exultant expression breaks the crane's back on his knees. The crane anima gutters and disappears, and the white gorilla beats his chest in victory.

Some time later, Monkey bursts through the waves carrying Shun's broken body. He sets him down on the beach, muttering. "Schtuff. Sorcerers & schtuffs." He turns aside and spits. It's blood. "Damn, for someone who didn't even manage to touch me, you sure did a number." He looks at the sea before finally sitting down. "Oh, hey, I forgot your giant hammers. You'll have to pick them up yourself when you wake up. In the meanwhile, I'll make sure the seagulls don't bother you." Yawning, he settles down to rest.

Player Chat

Right, I think I have three possible ways of breaching your soak. Unfortunately I don't have the motes to try all of them at once, so this will be slow going as I try to gather essence through stunts. - TonyC

I'm still considering my post. One thing is sure, though; the recent ruling about Fivefold Bulwark Stance style defenses over at Thus_Spake_Zaraborgstrom/FiveFoldBulwarkStance is going to make parrying a much more attractive option than before. I can now imitate what you do and have big flurries with no DV penalty from it, and undwerwater is only a -1 to my PDV. A 9 PDV versus a 10 DDV... hmm, so a couple dodges in there is still good if I don't flurry. And if motes are to be spent, SOW is still the most effecient way... hm. Thinking about crunch too much. Will come back with something that looks awesome, and do that. - IanPrice

If you are thinking of Four Halo Golden Monkey Realignment, then you need to reword the text of the charm, because the way it is worded right now, it doesn't read that way. You will also need to recost it, since it is now far more effective than FFBS for not much more. FFBS negates -1 DV penalty from each flurried action. Four Halo, if you want it to work the way FFBS work, would negate visibility penalty, unstable ground penalty, underwater penalty, being prone penalty, being completely drunk penalty, etc., plus the -1 DV penalty from flurried action. It's also reflexive compared to FFBS's Simple, and gives you autosuccesses to MA attacks. All that, for Essence 3 instead of 2, and 3 extra motes. - TonyC
It was all that (if by "all that" we mean "everything FFBS is and a bag of MA attack bonus chips") for Essence 3 instead of 2 and 3 extra motes in 1e, and I'm looking to update it faithfully. I misread FFBS before to reduce all other penalties by one rather than only the ones from actions taken. So, Four Halo should be the latter as well, instead of how I have it currently reading. - IanPrice
Rereading what I wrote above, I see that what I wrote was just as confusing. Sorry, I wrote that just minutes before I have to leave for work. Anyway, if it's just the penalties from your own action, your version is spot on. It's the "reduce penalty of everything" that I think should be more expensive. But that's irrelevant now. Fight on. - TonyC

Things that have made my life difficult this fight: Lost Monkey Form (HALF DV? Dayum that hurts.), Drunken Monkey Form (Not only the flurry bonuses, but an external penalty that isn't DV and so doesn't take DV penalties!), and Threefold Partition of the Soul (Independent Actions in a Celestial MA charm. This charm is stronger than Charcoal March of Spiders Form, too, due to the bonuses to each body). - IanPrice

Three-Fold Partition is stronger. The pinnacle charm of a Celestial Style could be stronger than the Form charm of a Sidereal style. On the other hand, it's also more expensive, and has a very short duration. - TonyC
But at a lower essence level? CMoS form is Essence 5. I think the actions each part of the body takes should be completely seperate, not treated as independent actions of the same character; ie, they have their own charm actions, but not those of the other bodies. - IanPrice
That basically creates a modified mechanic that is not Independent Action. Rules cruft. Also extra bookkeeping. Much better to adjust the requirements or the cost so it's appropriate to the power. Perhaps lethal hl after all? Aggravated even (mmm, not sure about this)? Keep in mind that CMoS Form also has extra benefits on top of the independent actions. The ability to dematerialize, to walk on air, to walk on walls and ceiling, doubled movement in common cases, reduction of enemy's attack pool and DVs, and the possibility to make an enemy lose an action. Now that I reexamine CMoS Form, it might be stronger Three-Fold after all. Just less direct. - TonyC

Hey, how are you going to treat Walking in the Footsteps of Ten Thousand Things with dice-adder limits? Are the dice considered bonus dice, or not? Since they're permanent, I could see an arguement for not. Since they could get insane otherwise, I could see an arguement for "yes please." - IanPrice

Not having PG, I can't say for sure. If it's bonus dice though, it's probably capped. Second Edition is quite solid on capping bonus dice from charms. So does First Edition, actually. If your question is whether capping that Charm's power is appropriate given its prereqs and cost, you need to ask others, as I'm not familiar at all with Celestial Monkey Style. Try the folks at the Exalted forums and rpg.net. - TonyC
We'll treat it as bonus dice then. - IanPrice

Conclusions

TonyC

Alright, I win. As expected, essence 5 solar fights ends when one side runs out of motes/wp. If you are curious what the three ways I was talking about, they're:

  1. Increasing Strength Exercise + aggravated clinch.
  2. My version of Blade of the Battle Maiden. +10 damage to kick. Then flurry like crazy. With a base damage of 26, some damage should get through every action.
  3. Parlaying my Speed, tricking you into activating EGT without using a combo. Then bum-rush you with an aggravated clinch + Rending The Heart And Soul (all unsoaked damage -> auto-successes).

The prevailing combination of aggravated clinch + Life Severing Blow is kinda like the junior version of the 3rd way. They're very expensive in terms of hl, wp, and motes. I wish I could've used that, but since I already attacked without using that supplemental charm, I couldn't.

IanPrice

I was pretty sure I was way overextending myself with that attack, but if I hadn't attacked quickly, you just would have kept stunting motes back and stealing my motes anyway. Oh yes, and joy in adversity. Looking back over the whole fight, there's one thing that kept me from touching you more than anything else: Drunken Monkey Form. That form is two devastating charms in one. One of these charms reduced flurry penalties to rolls and DV, and makes MA damage lethal. The other one provides an external penalty of Essence to opponent's attacks, which is huge. It allowed you to subtract 5 more from my attacks than the maximum of your DV, not counting environmental penalties.

I think the other Monkey forms are balanced. I think Threefold Partition should probably cost an aggravated health level, but it's not as bad in itself as Drunken Monkey; though it did allow you to get all the forms activated without my being able to do anything about it.

What should I have done? I shouldn't have wasted motes on Excelencies for attacks. I should've used Walking in the Footsteps of Ten Thousand Things right at the start, and it would've saved me about 20-30m over the course of the fight. Mind you, you would have had to have messed up even more than I did to allow me to make a single attack with no multi-action penalties, with you having less than 3 motes available, to have a chance of penetrating 22 successes subtracted. A small chance at that, even if I had my goremauls functioning. (potential dice pool of 34 + 2 successes, average of 18 successes)

Looks can be deceiving... I was the underdog here the whole time.

From my POV, Monkey has always controlled the fight from the get go. The problem has always been finding a way to crack past the three-layered soak, armor, charm, and Twilight anima ability. - TonyC
There are some odd design choices in Broken Wing Shun. He has comparatively fewer charms that I expected. The selection of Lore charms are understandable, given Shun's schtick, but the lack of Athletic Charms or some other substitute for mobility, not taking the entirety of Dodge, lack of protection against surprise attacks, and absolutely no cross-styles MA makes me scratch my head in confusion. Shun's not even taking Terrestrial Sorcery, which is what I expected from a "sorcerer." (He makes things out of the Wyld. This is very much a sorcerer vibe.) Taking all the Virtues to 5 is also another questionable practice, as you rarely need all 4 Virtues maxed out if you're hoping for the virtue channels, and if it's a way of getting more peripheral motes, that's a very expensive method. (And in term of roleplaying, he'll be very hard to play.) He also has very few scenelongs, and while Essence Flows lets him makes up for it, they are really expensive in term of motes. This guy is probably at his best in a warstrider, fighting a behemoth on the edges of Creation, but in a martial art contest, he's handicapping himself. - TonyC

Peanut Gallery Chat (read: Comments)

I feel like I'm doing a DBZ recap. -_-; - TonyC

The pinnacle charm of a Celestial Style could be stronger than the Form charm of a Sidereal style.

Why? You need a Celestial pinnacle for a Sidereal form; this means higher prereqs in terms of number of Charms, likely higher Essence of the Charm itself, and higher xp cost. Furthermore, SMA Charms are meant to be roughly equivalent to margincally lower-Essence Solar charm machinery, whereas Celestial MA charms are often noted as explicitly less than Solar powered. I'm having trouble seeing a reason that a celestial pinnacle would be superior. - BerserkSeraph

My thoughts exactly. - IanPrice
This is beyond the scope of TrialByFire. I will admit to being wrong in the case of CMoS Form, but if people want to chat about this, just drop by my wikipage and leave something in the Comments section. - TonyC.

Well, that was pretty awesome. It seems to me that Monkey's biggest advantage was not letting Shun utilise the twin Goremauls. I wonder how Monkey would have coped with a hit from one or both of those, but that's a moot point cuz monkey was able to keep them out of combat, which also means that they were a waste of Shun's background points and essence ultimately. Drunken Monkey Form certainly seems a bit uber at the moment. Good work to the pair of you! This was an entertaining example. - nikink

Like hell I'm going to take a hit from the grand goremauls. Monkey has some soak, but only another dedicated soak-monster can absorb a hit from Shun's grand goremauls. Base damage of 26L... brrr. If Ian rolls badly, Monkey can take one hit, and even benefit from it. But if Ian rolls well, or Shun manages to land a second blow, Monkey's paste. - TonyC
Oh yeah, I wouldn't expect anyone to want to take a hit from those! Good tactics to deny their use imo. B-) -nikink
Drunken Monkey Form does have a lot of power. It is a 5/4 charm and the penultimate charm. I'm also not sure whether the imbalance is inherent or caused by the switch to 2e, since some things doesn't work the same way while the conversion is pretty much a straightforward letter for letter. For example, init modifier and speed reducer are not the same thing. Speed reducer lets you act more, while init modifier just lets you act first. The difficulty to hit is also something that doesn't work quite the same. In 1e, to dodge or parry, you need to reserve an action or use a charm, so that's an extra cost on top of the commitment cost of the Form, or else it's a poor man's persistent defense. In 2e, everybody gets full parry and full dodge, and suddenly the extra DV becomes very efficient. I would like very much to hear what people suggests as far for power or cost adjustment (given the already high cost though, probably a power adjustment is better). - TonyC
Perhaps just add Essence to the DV calculation? Still powerful, less heinous... Dunno. nikink
I noticed during the fight you weren't taking DV penalties for your attacks. Is this due to the Drunken Monkey Form? Or is there some other charm that I am missing? If this is the case, you may want to consider dropping that from the effects of the form, since it goes someway to making your DV behave as though you had a persistant defence. In addition, splitting-reduction is a powerful effect. At essence 5, you effectively have a scenelong 3 Action EA charm, that in exchange for penalties you can expand further.
Also as an obvservation, I think Lost Monkey form is too good. It provides a scenelong +5 Dodge, it doubles your movement and leaping (which is 2 solar charms right there) and it provides scenelong access to a (powerful) 3m supplemental charm (The defence pool halving). - Kraken
Yes, it's due to Drunken Monkey Form. I'm going to drop that ability and see how it balances out. The external penalty to attacker I'm inclined to keep, at least until further playtesting. With the persistent defense gone, it shouldn't be that uber, since it will go down when I use a flurry and if I don't use a flurry I'm wasting a powerful ability. Keep in mind that charms that cancels penalties will ignore it, e.g., There Is No Wind archery charm. Also, multiple-action penalty reducer is best thought as a scene-long pseudo dice-adder, not Extra-Action. It does not let you ignore Rate and doesn't combine with Simple charms. - TonyC
Lost Monkey Form... I don't know, the +5 Dodge is standard, doubling the movement is neat, but is completely trumped by Monkey Leap Technique (Lost Monkey Form does not let you jump as a Move action, and yes, I respectfully disagree with RSB.), and halving DVs... well, whenever Shun doesn't want to get hit, he just use SOW to ignore the DV penalties and whenever he doesn't use SOW, up until the last moment when Monkey spent 4lhl, 5wp, and 30m to bypass Shun's soak, Shun is unharmed. Also, halving means halving everything, including penalties. Those coordinated attack, onslaught, underwater, wound, etc., they all get reduced in effectiveness. I could be wrong though. Maybe Lost Monkey Form is unbalanced for its cost and I'm just not seeing it because Ian's build is that strong. - TonyC

I would certainly like to take some credit for the fact that I didn't get completely creamed by your very strong selection of charms! ;) As for power levels...

  • I don't have a problem with Lost Monkey, because as you mentioned, Shadow Over Water is easy and cheap.
  • Penalties to attacks are much harder to get rid of though, so honestly, I'd rather see Drunken Monkey Form lose the external penalty than the flurry DV penalty reduction. Just being a flurry enhancer would make it everything it was in 1e, in my opinion. The fact that the extra external penalty pushed your success reduction on me up 5 beyond the normal limit of your DV was just insane, and you could achieve that quite easily with Shadow Over Water yourself, no matter what penalties on your DV (flurry-based or otherwise).
  • Threefold Partition, I already mentioned: definitely make the health level cost aggravated, because that charm is badass. For its limited duration, it puts you on par with Charcoal March of Spiders Form.

As a general note, persistent charms are very powerful. This fight went on long enough to drive home just how powerful they really are. - IanPrice

Hmmm. If you're reading Lost Monkey like that, then I agree, it's not as powerful, since I imagine IanPrice would have been using SOW most ticks you attacked anyway. I was reading it closer the 1e effect (which I think is too powerful) whereby it would set both the DVs to half their usual value in the same way that an undodgeable attack sets them to 0, so SOW would not do nearly as much (I had gotten rather lost in all the numbers on the page, mostly due to reading the fight at times when I should have been asleep)
I think I agree on the penalties to the attack should probably be dropped, though I would note that external penalties + needing to use SOW for a 'full' defence is a lot closer to its original form than no external penalties but not as much need to use SOW (due to lack of own flurry penalties). In 1e, given sufficient xp, there could easily have been a dodge and parry being used.
I think barring a few relatively rare circumstances (such as regen), making the Threefold Partition cost be Agg damage actually makes no difference in a fight, since in combat, it's all just injuries, and once you're unconcious you might as well be dead. If you want to make it be a more meaningful penalty, I would suggest increasing the number of HLs dealt, not the 'quality'. - Kraken
It doesn't matter to builds similar to Monkey, but it does matter to, say, a Lunar martial artist, or someone with Wood Dragon Form. Also, in an actual campaign, healing time matters. A lot. - TonyC, Who just noticed that Body-Mending Meditation speeds up the healing of aggravated damage. Recommend house-ruling that away.
I'd like to note, for the record, that if you manage enough successes to hit someone with difficulty 6 to hit, you don't lose 6 successes, or 5 successes, or any of those successes even, when it comes to calculating damage. This is equally true in 1e and 2e. Attacks are normally difficulty 1, and even that 1 success that says you hit is counted for damage. This makes difficulty to hit significantly less powerful than subtracting successes to hit. - IanPrice
I don't think this is true in 2e, although it is apparently not the case in 1e. The text on pg120 "Difficulty and Success", seems to indicate fairly clearly to me that the threshold of roll (which is the number of successes left after the difficulty) is what determines what effect it has, both in terms of how difficult it is to avoid and how damaging it is. The 1e text on page 88 is a lot less clear, and aside from some odd wording (HTT refers to doubling only extra successes) there is nothing apparently in the 1e rules to support me. Neither of the two combat sections acknowledge a roll could be anything other than difficulty 1, with the 1e text refering to remaining successes, with the 2e text likewise. Kraken who noticed as a result of this, There Is No Wind is in Ex2 an Undodgeable and Unblockable attack in all but name.
I agree with Kraken. I've always understood it as "if you match the difficulty, then you got threshold 1. Extra successes add to the threshold." - TonyC

Okay, adjustments made. Further Trials? - TonyC

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