Difference between revisions of "TrialBySchmendrick/TerrestrialHeroVsFiveDragon"

Latest revision as of 14:39, 10 August 2010

Trial started: 1 Aug 2006
Trial completed: 21 Aug 2006

Home: Terrestrial Hero Style, "Hero"

Hapushet will be running Terrestrial Hero, which has gotten a lot of "broken" hyping recently - now it's time to prove it! Terrestrial Hero Style allows the use of armor, but no weapons. It is almost exclusively dedicated toward grappling effects, with a secondary focus on penetrating the soak of opponents, and includes a fairly vicious pinnacle Charm.

Hero is of the Water Aspect and knows the following two Combos:

• Waves Hammer the Shore: A surge of blue-black Essence leaps out of Hero's hands, twisting into claws that resemble those of the Water Dragon itself. These claws lash out, foaming and flickering, to pierce the armor of Hero's unfortunate target. The attack combines the Become the Hammer and Pounding Surf Style Charms, and costs 2m, 1wp.

• Tsunami Breaks on Stones: As from the earth itself, a rush of water pours upward beneath Hero's opponent, lifting him or her high into the air. The wave becomes a whirlpool, and the vortex slams the target into the ground with deadly force. This technique combines the Pounding Surf Style and Trireme Strikes the Rocks Charms and costs 4m, 1wp.

Hero also carries the following artifacts: Unspeakable Memory, a glossy black jade reinforced breastplate with a series of spirals, all composed of tiny triangles, incised across it; and Words of Perfection, a pair of blue jade heartstone bracers that bear incantations to Mela for victory in battle. He carries three walkaway charms, each worth 1hl in damage prevention that would otherwise kill him. His artifacts cost him a total commitment of 10 motes.

Away: Five-Dragon Style, "Five"

Wordman volunteers the Five-Dragon Style, straight from the new Dragon-blooded book. Five-Dragon is a general style, featuring a variety of offensive and defensive techniques, the ability to deal aggravated damage, and a multiple action charm. It allows armor and treats attacks with straight swords and spears as unarmed.

Five takes on the aspect of Wood and knows two combos:

• Teeth of the Hydra: A writhing blur of thorned tendrils spring out of Five's anima, forming into a barbed wooden dragon with five heads. As Five rains blows on his opponent, each phantom head strikes its fangs into the target. Five-Dragon Wrath and Five-Dragon-Force Blow combine to make up to Essence attacks that double base damage for 3m per attack, plus 1wp, 1 hl.
• Heart Leaves Cage: Five's hand becomes a wooden claw with jade talons, thorned whips of emerald fire reaching out at the wrist. As Five strikes, the tendrils sink into the target, snaking through openings in the opponent's armor as the claws scrape the target's flesh. Five-Dragon Claw and Five-Dragon-Force Blow combine to enhance an attack that deals lethal damage, ignores hardness and doubles base damage for 3m, 1wp.

Having briefly considered the idea of using three 2-dot artifacts, Five instead wears Honey Locust Coat, a white jade reinforced breastplate (Soak 9B/10L, Hard 8B/8L, Mob -1, Fat 0) into which an intricate tree motif has been carved, featuring branches with long thorns growing downwards. The tree's leaves are inlayed green jade, with red jade seed pods inlayed in pleasing locations. He carries Havoc Rose Nail, a green jade dire lance (Spd 4, Acc +2, Dmg +9L, Def +2, Rate 2, Tags 2LR) with a cluster of thorny brambles of black jade winding down the shaft from red jade roses on either side of the base of the blade. His remaining artifact dot has been used to buy three "points" worth of talismans (see top of second column, pg. 379) and he carries a one point Good Luck Charm (avoid one botch per story) and a two point Walkaway (negate two damage successes from a life-threatening damage roll once per story). All these artifacts require a combined commitment of nine motes.

Signs

• Musician: Second Edition rules.
• Pillar: Fighters are treated as terrestrial exalts, but aspect abilities will be ignored. Out of aspect penalties will effectively also be ignored by giving each fighter the appropriate (Elemental) Style Formulation charm. Each fighter knows the first three Martial Arts Excellencies and, by agreement, Hero knows two terrestrial-specific ancillary charms to his style: Blade-Deflecting Palm and Become the Hammer
• Guardians and Spear: Each fighter will be given a three dot Artifact background to buy core book artifacts. As these are terrestrials, this provides six dots of artifacts, but no one item can have a rating greater than three.
• Gauntlet and Quiver: The fight takes place in a cave, roughly the shape of a cube 15 yards on a side. Stalagmites of various heights onto which fighters can leap and stalactites from which they can hang are scattered through the cave, as a couple of natural columns running floor to ceiling. Glowing moss covers most surfaces, lighting the cave eerily. All this combines for the following environmental effects:
  • The slick, uneven and crumbling surface gives a -2 to all Dodge DV.
  • The extra effort needed to walk or run in the uneven terrain is abstracted by cutting Walk and Dash movement rate in half.
  • We assert that our Athletics rating is high enough to ignore the flurry considerations of unstable footing (pg. 155).
  • Not wanting to map out the whole cave, it is assumed that that fighters can use narration to move to higher ground, move to lower ground, hang from stalactites, take cover and make other use of the terrain without having to map out each square foot.
  • We assume that no more than one yard of height separates one area from another, so any height bonus/penalties will be +/- 1.
• Captain: Prior to the bout, we agreed to some specific interpretations of vague rulings:
  • The "feats of strength" boosted by Five-Dragon Form uses the definition on pg. 127. Specifically, this neither boosts damage, nor helps in contested clinches, but does enhance throwing distance.
  • In calculating DV, we avoid rounding until the end as much as possible.
  • Attacks from Riptide Method must be used on different targets.
  • Some of the charms in this fight enhance knockback, so we will be paying strict attention to it.

Transcript

Five-Dragon has the highest requirements for a pinnacle charm, giving both fighters a Martial Arts of 5 and an Essence of 4.

Combatant: damage, willpower, essence (remaining/committed/total), DV penalty (including wounds, but not mobility), soak (bashing/lethal/aggravated), channels (compassion/conviction/temperance/valor)

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 8/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 22/10/32, DV plty: -0, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4

5: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 8/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 23/9/32, DV plty: -0, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4

Distance: 10 yards

Setup

The dank cave, lit in odd patterns of green-white light by moss clinging to walls, floor and ceiling, seems to catch Hero by surprise as he appears. The distant drip of water is, at first, the only sound, and he spends a brief moment catching his balance on the slick surface. Above him, the cave roof is visible only as a dim shadow. No exit is visible, but he feels a dim certainty that escape will be possible... somehow. He wears his favored armor and the hearthstone bracers he favors in battle; the green-white light gives the black and blue jade a sickly, ominous sheen. A slow turn to examine the area reveals nothing of use, but when he turns back again, he confronts his double. Hero sighs, "Ah. This again," and settles into a stance that somehow echoes that of the ocean's rage in a storm. A wash of black Essence swirls around him, enhancing the dangerous mood that radiates from the combatants.

Five's white armor glows green with the rest of the cave. He considers his double across the array of stone step-like formations. Stepping over to the next step, he says calmly "You appear just as I do. Except without the fashion sense. Black is so passe." With minimal movement, he performs a series of motions, whispering "to the earth that surrounds me, to the sky and ocean I cannot see, please stoke fire within me and the life in my soul to grant me the strength to make this cave a tomb to this abomination."

Hero declaration: Activates Terrestrial Hero Form from peripheral Essence. All five points are dedicated to grappling.

Five declaration: Activates Five-Dragon Form from personal motes. As per setup rules, he elects to move closer (Dexterity yards, cut in half by the uneven terrain) 2 yards.

Resolution: Both forms activate. Hero can gains 5 dice on grappling tests for the scene. Five can soak lethal attacks with his bashing soak (essentially making his lethal soak 14), gains +1 accuracy to his spear (now +3) and adds 4 to Dex and Str for determining running speed (now 14yds/tick), jumping distance (now 13 yds vertical, 26 horizontal) and feats of strength.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 8/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 17/15/32, DV plty: 0, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4

5: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 8/8, psnl: 7/5/12, prph: 23/9/32, DV plty: -0, Soak: 13B/13L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4

Distance: 8 yards

His spear at the ready, Five takes a few more steps towards his quarry, moving with minimum waste, steeling his resolve.

Hero's eyes narrow as he steps up to meet his opponent. "The ocean is endlessly patient," he says, "but I am not." His muscles tense as he prepares to engage Five.

Five declaration: Activates Five-Dragon-Blocking Technique (5DBT) with personal.

Hero declaration: 2 yards closer, and Join Battle!

Resolution: Five gains 2 to PDV and can parry lethal attacks barehanded for the rest of the scene. Battle is joined.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 8/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 17/15/32, DV plty: 0, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4

5: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 7/8, psnl: 3/9/12, prph: 23/9/32, DV plty: -0, Soak: 13B/13L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4

Distance: 4 yards

Join Battle

"I regret to inform you that my path to escape lies through you," Hero says, and then the time for words is over. Five wastes no more energy talking.

Hero rolls Wits + Awareness (6 dice): 2, 2, 4, 6, 10, 10 = 4 sx.

Five rols Wits + Awareness (6 dice): 1, 5, 6, 8, 9, 9 = 3 sx.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 8/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 17/15/32, DV plty: 0, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4, Next action: 0

5: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 7/8, psnl: 3/9/12, prph: 23/9/32, DV plty: -0, Soak: 13B/13L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4, Next action: 1

Distance: 4 yards

Tick 0 - Hero

"I will do what must be done," Hero whispers to himself. He takes two quick strides closer to Five, then launches himself into the air. Each leap brings him down for no more than the length of one drip of the distant water, and an explosion of light bursts forth from each step as the moss is crushed underfoot. The last jump is off of the tip of Havoc Rose Nail, as Hero flips over Five's head and attempts to catch his opponent's throat midway through the leap. Caught slightly flat footed by the leap, Five maneuvers his spear to foul Hero any way he can, to no avail. Hero wraps himself around Five and starts to squeeze the air out of him. Only the favor of the five dragons prevents Five's chest from collapsing.

Hero takes a 2 yard move, then flurries a jump action (assuming that jumps are afflicted by the same movement restriction as Moves and Dashes) of 6 yards with a clinch, activating Drowning Embrace out of peripheral Essence as well. He'll channel Conviction on the attack, because it's the only way he'll have a prayer of getting through. If the attack succeeds, then every action after this one that Hero manages to control the grapple will result in an unsoakable level of bashing damage in addition to any other effects.

Since the movement penalty comes from uneven ground, and leaping would avoid such ground, I'd assumed the penalty wouldn't apply to leaping. Doesn't make much difference in this case, though. Take two stunt die for spear walking. Also, channelling a virtue costs willpower (something I may have forgotten in my last bout). I would be using Third Excellency here, but I don't think I'm allowed, as combined with 5DBT, that would put me over the terrestrial cap (I think). If I can use it, PDV would be 10.

Not sure how I forgot the Virtue channel cost... it was rattling around in my head all night. (headshake) Anyway, based on online discussion various places, including some with the Charm author, I also read it as you're capped. Technically, I think you have one die's worth of wriggle room, but that just vanishes into the rounding.

1. Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + Conviction 4 - 3 flurry + 2 stunt dice) = 17 dice. Drowning Embrace, 1m + 1wp. Conviction channel, 1wp.
2. Defense declaration: Parry. ( 5 (MA) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Defense) + 4 (5DBT)) / 2 = 7.5 rounds to 8.
3. Attack roll: 17 dice (1, 2, 2, 5, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10) = 15 sx
4. Attack reroll: none
5. External penalties: DV 8 reduces to 7 sx.
6. Defense reroll: none
7. Base damage: 4B + 7sx = 11B, piercing
8. Soak: 13B, reduced by piercing to 8B; however, though he will regret spending the essence, Five activates Five-Dragon Invulnurability for 5m, 1wp to bump his Hardness to 12, preventing damage.
9. Counterattacks: none
10. Result: Five is clinched; status immediately shifts to Inactive. Both combatants will contest the clinch again on tick 5 - if Five does not manage to win the clinch test at that point, he will suffer one level of unsoakable bashing damage in addition to any other effects. Hero regains a point of Willpower from a successful stunt.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 7/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 16/16/32, DV plty: -2, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/3/3/4, Next action: 5

5: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 6/8, psnl: 0/9/12, prph: 21/9/32, DV plty: -0, Soak: 13B/13L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/4, Next action: 5

Tick 1 - 4

Clinch being held, so no one does jack.

Tick 5

Though gasping for breath, Five sees the dissapointment the five dragons will have for him, and vows to break free. Gathering his anger, he feels the flow of the air dragon within him and hurls the entwined fighters upward, driving Hero's back into an overhanging stalactite, hoping the impact will help him break free.

Just before impact, Hero's body becomes limp, almost relaxed; then, in the instant after the stalactite has touched the black jade plates across his back, he stiffens - and the stalactite shatters into a cloud of dust and tiny stone shards that engulfs them both. "The way of Water," Hero whispers into the ear of a stunned Five, "is weakness in the face of strength, and strength in response to weakness." Then, they slam down together on the rocky floor.

Unless Hero intends to let go, I assume we have a clinch contest. Five will channel Valor and use First Excellency.

Hero is also channeling Valor, and using Pounding Surf Style to start the long, painful process of breaking down your soak. 2 die stunt for you.

Two dice for you, too.

1. Clinch contest: Hero: 4 (Strength) + 5 (MA) + 5 (Terrestrial Hero Form) + 4 (Valor) + 2 (stunt) = 20 dice. 1m for PSS, 1wp for Virtue channel. Five: 4 (Strength) + 5 (MA) + 4 (Excellency) + 4 (Valor) + 2 (stunt) = 19 dice. 2m to First Excellency, 1 wp to channel.
2. Attack rolls: Hero: (1,1,2,2,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,5,6,7,8,9,9,9,9) = 6 sx. Five: 1,1,2,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,6,8,8,8,8,9,9,10,10 = 10 sx.
3. Attack reroll: Depending on the result, Five may re-roll. Hero: spends 3m to activate 3rd MA Excellency, rerolls. Hero's 2nd roll: (1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,3,3,4,6,6,7,7,7,8,9,10) = 7 sx.
4. External penalties: n/a
5. Defense reroll: none
6. Base damage: n/a
7. Soak: n/a
8. Counterattacks: none
9. Result: Five controls clinch. He elects to Break Hold by hurling Hero into the ground nice and close by. According to pg 157 this leaves Hero automatically prone. Using TonyC's suggestion, Five is considered to have acted to break the clinch, so goes again at 11. Hero also acted to control the clinch which, thanks to his bracers is a Speed 5 action, letting him go on 10. Five gains 4 motes back from his successful stunt.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 6/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 15/16/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/3/3/3, Next action: 10

5: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 5/8, psnl: 4/9/12, prph: 19/9/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/13L/10A, Ch: 3/4/3/3, Next action: 11

Tick 6-9

No one acts. Initially, it was assumed that Five could act on tick 6, during which he unleashed a flurry of attacks, the first of which did six points of damage (hence the "I'm screwed" and similar comments below). After discussion in Rulings/GrappleTiming, we decided to retcon this action and proceeded as below.

Tick 10 - Hero

Slamming down onto the ground at Five's feet, Hero grunts in pain, then his eyes narrow in anger. Rolling backward into a handstand, he lashes out with his feet, legs scissoring around Five's neck to lock with vise-like strength. Around him, the humid cave air begins to swirl in time with his anima. In a whisper that builds to a shout, "Pasiap, please welcome your lost son, for he will not embrace me!" Meeting Hero's legs with Nail, Five redirects them from his neck to entange a nearby stalagmite instead.

Hero will forgo standing up, taking the -1 success penalty in lieu of actually having to split his dice pool. I'm channeling valor for 1wp, and also activating Drowing Embrace again for 1m, 1wp.

Take a stunt die for the handstand/leg grab. Five parries, channelling conviction. I think the eratta says that both channeling and stunts affect DV like the first excellency.

That's how I understand it too. 2 dice for you.

1. Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + Valor 4 + 1 stunt die) = 19 dice. Drowning Embrace, 1m + 1wp. Valor channel, 1wp.
2. Defense declaration: Parry. ( 5 (MA) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Defense) + 4 (5DBT)) / 2 = 7.5 rounds to 8 - 1 from previous action penalty = 7. Rolling 4 + stunt die: 1,4,6,8,8,9 = 3. Conviction channel, 1wp.
3. Attack roll: 18 dice (1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 10 ,10) = 14 sx.
4. Attack reroll: I don't think I'll manage better than that.
5. External penalties: -1 sx from being prone. DV 10. 14 - 1 - 10 = 3sx
6. Defense reroll: Can't use use Third Excellency.
7. Base damage: 4B + 7sx = 7B, piercing
8. Soak: Hardness 8 stops damage from crush, if any was intended. (No point in trying. - Hapushet)
9. Counterattacks: None.
10. Result: Five is clinched, becomes inactive. Hero regains two motes from stunt, maxing out.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 4/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 16/16/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/3/3/2, Next action: 15

5: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 4/8, psnl: 4/9/12, prph: 19/9/32, DV plty: -0, Soak: 13B/13L/10A, Ch: 3/3/3/3, Next action: inactive

Ticks 11-14

Grapple continues.

Tick 15

With a titanic effort, Hero pushes off from the ground and, bracing on Five's shoulder's, swings himself upright. Still keeping his legs locked around Five's throat, he reaches out to grasp a pair of stactites to either side, including the one into which Five tried to parry his legs. "Actually," he says, "Pasiap was always a friend to Danna'd, but he feared her also, for even his patient strength could not withstand the power of her relentless anger." The stone groans under his grip as Hero then lifts both combatants into the air, Five dangling from Hero's choking grip like a condemned man from a noose. Not one to let a religious point pass, Five, through his constricted windpipe, grunts out "Yet melted... stone... burns as fire... flows like water... three dragons... united'. As he makes his argument, Five reaches his spear to the ground, pushing himself upward, bending Hero's legs behind him and grabbing a stalactite of his own. Suspended in air between legs, stone and spear, Five pulls the rock and pushes spear to escape from Hero's clutches.

Hero is maintaining the clinch. As I read the grappling rules, I can take other actions as long as I flurry them with a clinch contest - that's the understanding I'm using when I declare a flurry of "rise from prone, clinch." Activating Pounding Surf Style, 3m, and channeling Conviction, 1wp, to gelp offset multiple action penalties. Let's see how this goes...

That flurry seems fine, but it does raise some questions, such as could you use extra actions in the flurry to punch me? Could I use one to stab you with my free arms? For the sake of getting on with this, I'll sidestep this question for now, using the spear to stunt instead. I was going to give you two dice for the stunt, but since there is a "way cool" comment from the peanut gallery, take three. Five will channel Conviction as well.

Can't argue with that logic - and because of it, you get three as well. Also, see below for the flurry question.

1. Clinch contest: Hero: Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + Conviction 4 - 3 dice multiple action + 3 dice) = 18 dice. Pounding Surf Style, 1m. Conviction channel, 1wp. Five: 4 (Strength) + 5 (MA) + 4 (Conviction) + 3 (stunt) = 16 dice. Conviction channel, 1 wp.
2. Defense declaration: None, essentially.
3. Attack roll: Hero: 18 dice (1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 8, 8, 9, 10, 10, 10)= 9 sx. Five: 16 dice (1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9, 10) = 8sx.
4. Attack reroll: Assuming that grapple contest timing works roughly the same way an ordinary attack does, Hero has to decide on a reroll first. He chooses not to. Five will reroll, 3m with 3rd Excellency: 16 dice (1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 10, 10) = 9sx. In yet another strike against the grapple mechanics, they don't exactly specify what happens in a tie. Since there is no clear "winner", I assume that means the status quo is maintained, and Five is still clinched. -That's what I would take the "turning the tables" line to mean as well, but it's definitely unclear. I could see an argument in which we are both losers, but that suggests that neither one of us can initiate a new contest in an appropriate number of ticks (since only the aggressor has the action option), so I'm not going there.
5. External penalties:
6. Defense reroll:
7. Base damage: 4B + 0 sx. In addition, Five takes an unsoakable point of damage from the previous invocation of Drowning Embrace.
8. Soak: Hardness of 8 negates crush damage, if there would be any. I'm confused about the use of Pounding Surf Style here. For one, cost is listed as 1m, not 3m. Second, can you spend willpower now to negate hardness? -The Pounding Surf Style thing can be easly explained by me being an idiot. (headshake) I did it last time too - I fixed them both now. By my reading of the Charm, I would have to spend the WP to ignore your Hardness when I declared the Charm use, so no. 'Sides, I'm a long way away from it mattering at this point anyway.
9. Counterattacks:
10. Result: Five takes at least one point of bashing damage. Pounding Surf effectively reduces Five's soak by one. Given the tie, I'm not sure who gets rewards from stunts. -I don't think either of us should, though if the clinch is maintained I suppose I could argue that Hero deserves it. That seems wrong, though - not failing /= success.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 3/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 15/16/32, DV plty: -2, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/2/3/2, Next action: 20

5: /-|-----|----|-|-, wp: 3/8, psnl: 1/9/12, prph: 19/9/32, DV plty: 0, Soak: 12B/12L/9A, Ch: 3/2/3/3, Next action: inactive

Tick 16-19

More grappling.

Tick 20

Hero abruptly releases his two stalactites, allowing Five to pull them both forward without warning. As Five stumbles in the abrupt freedom, Hero drops his hands to the dire lance now trailing behind his opponent, grasping it firmly as he kicks off from Five's shoulders. Hero twists in midair, wrenching Havoc Rose Nail around so quickly that - before Five can even gasp for the breath being stolen by Hero's grip - the pressure of Hero's legs is replaced by that of Five's own dire lance, whipped around and pressed like a garrotte around Five's throat from behind. Together, Five and Hero slam into the ground below the stalactite, which trembles with the weight of the impact. Welcoming the ground, Five pushes off with his legs, causing the pair to roll down the stair-like stalagmites. At each rotation, he attempts to thrust his trusty spear into crevasses in the rock so that it will remain stationary while their bodies continue to move, breaking Hero's hold.

Hero: Yet more clinching. Yet more Pounding Surf Style. No Virtue channel this time.

Take three stunt die, if for no other reason that I sat and stared for about five minutes before figuring out how to respond, and even then all I could manage was this lame stunt. Five will channel Valor. Also, I've updated Five's soak to reflect its "effective level" due to Pounding Surf. Since you're the only opponent, it's "actual" level doesn't really matter.

I wouldn't call it lame - it's definitely worth two dice, which is what I'm giving you. (I'm really not sure mine's worth three, but I'll take it!)

1. Clinch contest: Hero: Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + 3 stunt dice) = 17 dice. Pounding Surf Style, 1m. Five: 4 (Strength) + 5 (MA) + 4 (Valor) + 2 stunt dice) = 15 dice.
2. Aggressor roll: 17 dice (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10) = 10 sx.
3. Attack reroll: None.
4. Victim roll: 15 dice (1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8, 10) = 5 sx.
5. Victim reroll: 15 dice (1, 1, 1, 2, 5, 5, 5, 7, 7, 7, 7, 9, 9, 9, 10) = 9 sx. (3m)
6. Base damage: 4B + 1 sx
7. Soak: Hardness would stop any crush damage.
8. Result: Five takes another point of bashing damage from Drowning Embrace, looses another point of soak and remains clinched. Sucessfull stunt for Hero regains him a point of willpower.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 4/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 14/16/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/2/3/2, Next action: 25

5: //|-----|----|-|-, wp: 2/8, psnl: 0/9/12, prph: 17/9/32, DV plty: 0, Soak: 11B/11L/8A, Ch: 3/2/3/2, Next action: inactive

Tick 21-24

More grappling.

Tick 25

After tumbling down a series of platform-like stalagmites, the entwined fighters come to rest at the base of a large column, Hero still choking Five with his own spear. Running out of breath, Five gathers his strength and leaps straight up, carrying Hero with him. At the top of his leap, he twists, rotating the spear at his neck so the blade sinks into the column, hoping their combined weight will pull him from Hero's clutches. Hero eyes the column uneasily, then flings out a leg in each direction, one to hook around the column, the other to brace in the small of Five's back. Thus stablized for now, he begins to pull harder, hoping to work the blade free and leave Five dangling again, this time supported only by the spear that still crushes into his neck.

Assuming another round like the last. Also, Hero still needs to claim his stunt reward from last turn.

So I do. Willpower it is. Two dice for you, since your stunt inspired mine directly.

Take two dice as well.

1. Clinch contest: Hero: Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + 2 stunt dice) = 16 dice. Pounding Surf Style, 1m. Five: 4 (Strength) + 5 (MA) + 4 (Valor) + 2 stunt dice) = 15 dice.
2. Aggressor roll: 16 dice (2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8, 10, 10, 10, 10) = 12 sx.
3. Aggressor reroll: None.
4. Victim roll: 15 dice (1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9) = 6 sx.
5. Victim reroll: 15 dice (1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 8, 9, 10) = 4 sx. Gee, I think I'll take the first roll.
6. Base damage: 4B + 6sx = 10B.
7. Soak: Hardness bypassed. Five could pump it, but elects not to. Pounding surf reduces soak to 10. Soak reduces to ping damage.
8. Result: Five takes 4 dice damage (3, 5, 7, 10) = 2 bashing health levels. Drowning Embrace inflicts another point of automatic damage. Successfull stunt for Hero regains him a point of willpower.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 5/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 13/16/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/2/3/2, Next action: 30

5: //|///--|----|-|-, wp: 1/8, psnl: 0/9/12, prph: 14/9/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 10B/10L/7A, Ch: 3/2/3/1, Next action: inactive

Ticks 26-29

Grappling continues.

Tick 30 - Hero

Seeing Five's struggles weakening, Hero gives a mighty heave and pulls Havoc Rose Nail free of the column, sending rock chips skittering around the cave. For a moment, Five hangs suspended, caught between the relentless pressure of Hero's knee in his back and the unbending jade of his own dire lance. Then Hero releases the column with his other leg, and the two plummet back to earth once more. As they fall, Five twists again, steering the bottom of the spear into the rock, hoping the impact will send it shooting out of Hero's hands.

Another serving of clinch contest, with a side order of Pounding Surf Style.

1. Clinch contest: Hero: Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + 2 stunt dice) = 16 dice. Pounding Surf Style, 1m. Five: 4 (Strength) + 5 (MA) - 1 wound + 2 stunt dice) = 10 dice.
2. Aggressor roll: 16 dice (1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10, 10) = 9 sx.
3. Aggressor reroll: None.
4. Victim roll: 10 dice (2, 2, 2, 2, 6, 7, 8, 8, 9) = 4 sx
5. Victim reroll: 10 dice (1, 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10) = 8sx
6. Base damage: 4B + 1sx = 5B.
7. Soak: Doesn't penetrate hardness.
8. Result: Five still clinched, takes another point from Drowning Embrace. Hero gains 1 willpower from successful stunt.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 6/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 12/16/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/2/3/2, Next action: 35

5: //|////-|----|-|-, wp: 1/8, psnl: 0/9/12, prph: 11/9/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/7A, Ch: 3/2/3/1, Next action: inactive

Ticks 31-34

Still clinching.

Tick 35 - Hero

As the speartip pierces the cave floor, Hero's grip loosens slightly, but he does not waver. Instead, a feral grin appears on his face, and he leans forward to whisper into Five's ear. "Now it ends. Danaa'd's mercy upon you." A sudden roar, like that of the Water Dragon itself, fills the chamber. All around, stactitites weakened by the titantic battle tremble and fall, smashing themselves to shards. From the very air itself, a rush of water coalesces, surging around the two combatants. The rush becomes a towering pillar of liquid that hurls Five into the air, tearing him from Hero's grip. Finally free of Hero's embrace, Five rides the shaft of water upward, unafraid of the embrace of the water dragon. As the rush starts to reverse itself, just before he is crushed against the ceiling, Five latches onto a huge chunk of falling stalagtite with his spear, and maneuvers it beneath him, into the sucking vortex the pillar has become, just as it sucks the rock and himself back down. As he rides a large chunk of rock downward, he laments Hero's blindness in following only one of the five dragons. He'll be introduced to the earth dragon soon enough.

Okay, now for something a little different. Hero activates his Tsunami Breaks on Stones Combo, for 4m and 1wp. He also spends an additional wp to ignore as much Hardness as he has reduced Five's soak by (6L/6B, if this attack works), and another 1wp to channel Conviction. Hero's clinch damage becomes lethal, he adds additional damage dice equal to the number of previous actions he has maintained the clinch (5, his max), and if any damage is inflicted, Five's back is broken. This means that he automatically fails any footwork-based Athletics rolls (which might or might not be an issue with the slippery ground), can only crawl along the ground at 1/10 his usual Move (or 1/10 his usual Dash, if he choses to do so), and cannot apply his Dodge DV without a stunt, and even then only at significant penalties. Incidentally, despite Hero's bravado, a successful use of this Combo is not at all guaranteed to end the fight. If the clinch roll succeeds, despite the stunt description, the clinch is still maintained, with the usual effects of PSS and Drowning Embrace.

I knew I saved that willpower for something. Five channels Conviction and uses First Excellency, buying 5 dice with three motes.

1. Clinch contest: Hero: Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + Conviction 4 + 2 stunt dice) = 20 dice. Tsunami Breaks on Stones, 4m, 2wp (including Hardness ignore). Conviction channel, 1wp. Five: 4 (Strength) + 5 (MA) + 4 (Conviction) - 1 wound + 5 Excellency + 2 stunt dice) = 19 dice. 1wp, 3m.
2. Aggressor roll: 20 dice (2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 9, 9, 9, 10) = 7 sx.
3. Aggressor reroll: 20 dice (1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 9, 10) = 10 sx. 3m.
4. Victim roll: 19 dice (1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10) = 14 sx. Yowza.
5. Victim reroll: Can't. Wouldn't anyway.
6. Base damage:
7. Soak:
8. Result: Five controls clinch. He elects to throw Hero as far as he can which, given his form, is eight yards (cave probably wouldn't allow much more anyway). Hero needs to make a Dex + Athletics (2) roll to remain on his feet. Five doesn't have enough essence to make his combo worthwhile, so he'll take four motes from the stunt instead of the willpower. I'll probably regret that later as well.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 3/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 5/16/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/1/3/2, Next action: 40

5: //|////-|----|-|-, wp: 0/8, psnl: 0/9/12, prph: 12/9/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/7A, Ch: 3/1/3/1, Next action: 41

Distance: 8 yards

Ricocheting from stone column to stone column, Hero sees the far wall of the cavern approaching far too quickly. Reaching out a hand, he catches a stalagmite and tries to swing around it, his feet extending so far out that he find himself running sideways across the wall for a few steps before he can redirect his momentum.

Hero's Dex (4) + Athletics (3) = 7 dice. (1, 4, 5, 5, 7, 8, 9) = 3sx. Since I didn't get a stunt award already this tick, I'm eligible for one off this roll if you think I deserve it, but it basically only determines whether I get any Essence or Willpower back.

Take two stunt dice a) because it was cool and b) for teaching me that stunting on free reflexive rolls is a really good idea.

Cool. Willpower point, then.

Tick 36-39

After hurling Hero the length of the cavern, Five moves to the other end of the cavern to make his last stand. Hero follows carefully, waiting for the right moment to strike.

Five will take reflexive Move actions away from Hero on each of these ticks. Five's base move is (4 (Dex) - 1 (wounds)) / 2 (terrain) = 1.5 yds/tick. Assuming this rounds up, that puts him 8 yards further away. Since the cave is only 15 yards wide that's a max of 15 yards, assuming Hero doesn't move. This probably also puts him on high ground.

Hero follows along, moving at basically the same speed (thanks to rounding in Five's favor). The cave width caps Five's move at 7 yards total, though, if Hero flew 8 yards away, so Hero and Five are 7 yards away as tick 40 begins.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 4/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 5/16/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/1/3/2, Next action: 40

5: //|////-|----|-|-, wp: 0/8, psnl: 0/9/12, prph: 12/9/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 9B/9L/7A, Ch: 3/1/3/1, Next action: 41

Distance: 7 yards

Tick 40 - Hero

"You just won't make this easy, will you," growls Hero irritably as he approaches Five. "As a shadow of me, you have nothing to live for, and yet you fight as though you will live at any cost. So be it. In that, at least, you reflect me truly." With a sudden leap, Hero launches himself forward - not at Five, but over him, using the wall as a springboard to redirect his attack toward Five's unprotected back. All subtlety is lost - this is the unfettered rage of the ocean unleashed, and the air seems to reverberate with it.

As Hero flies through the air toward him, a calm comes over Five, all five dragons rushing to his aid. He has met fire and earth, Five thinks. Why not wood and air? With a flick of his spear, Five sends a hunk of moss from a nearby rock rushing through the air into Hero's oncoming face. Tracking where Hero will land, Five doesn't bother to turn even his head, instead sweeping his spear behind him where he knows Hero will land, his anima trailing thorned brambles in its wake.

Hero takes one more 2 yard Move, from which Five cannot retreat, as there's nowhere left to go. Then he flurries a Jump with (yet another) grapple attack. As previously stated, his Jump distance is a minimum of 6 yards - he uses the remaining yard of distance to go up a "level" and negate Five's higher ground advantage. He activates Pounding Surf Style once more, and spends two Willpower: one to channel Valor, and one to negate Five's Hardness.

Five parries. No channels, because he is out of willpower (in retrospect, probably should have taken some from the last stunt). No excellencies, because 5DBT pumps to his limit. Part of me wanted to try to set my spear to receive your charge, but that would just trigger another rules discussion.

Two dice. Also, the only place charging is actually mentioned in the rules is in mass combat - it's the Dash action for War units. I don't think you can set against a charge in skirmish-level fights.

It's actually also listed as a secondary damage code for spears/lances when charging (which makes sense) or "bracing against a charging opponent" (which doesn't, since you don't do damage on defense). Bah.

Yeah, I knew that. What I meant to say was, "The only way I can find in the rules for an opponent to be 'charging' is for them to be a Mass Combat unit using the Dash action." As for how you do damage defensively... hell, no idea.

1. Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + Valor 4 - Multiple Action 3 + 2 stunt dice) = 17 dice. Pounding Surf Style, 1m + 1wp. Valor channel, 1wp.
2. Defense declaration: Parry. ( 5 (MA) + 4 (Dex) + 2 (Defense) + 4 (5DBT)) / 2 = 7.5 rounds to 8. Wounds take it to 7. 2-die stunt (9, 10) = 3 sx, for 10 DV total.
3. Attack roll: 17 dice (1, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 10) = 12sx.
4. Attack reroll: Don't think I need to, and I need the motes anyway.
5. External penalties: 10 DV.
6. Defense reroll: Can't, because 5DBT maxes me already.
7. Base damage: 4B + 2sx = 6B
8. Soak: Hardness is reduced to 2, thanks to Pounding Surf, which also reduces soak by another point. Soak is 8, reduced to 6 by piercing, so ping damage.
9. Counterattacks: None.
10. Result: 4B damage dice (4, 4, 7, 10) = 2 bashing health levels. Five is clinched and becomes inactive. Hero regains a point of Willpower for successful stunt.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 3/8, psnl: 12/0/12, prph: 4/16/32, DV plty: -2, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/1/3/1, Next action: 45

5: //|/////|/---|-|-, wp: 0/8, psnl: 0/9/12, prph: 12/9/32, DV plty: -2, Soak: 8B/8L/6A, Ch: 3/1/3/1, Next action: inactive

Ticks 41-44

Hey! Grappling! How novel is that!

Tick 45 - Hero

Waves and brambles crash soundlessly together as the two warriors battle. Hero manages to turn the two of them back toward the back wall, and slams himself against Five's back to force them closer. Left arm squeezing Five's neck, Hero reaches his right under Five's arm and begins pounding the wall with blows that make the entire cavern shake. "No more games," he snarls, punching the wall again. "I," pound, "will not," pound, "be," pound, "denied!" Every punch opens a new crack in the wall, and as his fist lands on the last word, a hole opens and water blasts outward, knocking them both backward.

Tsunami Breaks on Stones again. Valor channel (my last) and Hardness reduction as well, for a total of 4m, 3wp. Damage is +1 and lethal, thanks to Trireme Strikes the Rocks. Spine-breaking consequences as above.

Groovy. Three dice for you. Not even gonna bother trying to stunt against it.

1. Clinch contest: Hero: Grapple attack (Dexterity 4 + Martial Arts 5 + Terrestrial Hero Form 5 + Valor 4 + 3 stunt dice) = 21 dice. Tsunami Breaks on Stones, 4m, 2wp (including Hardness ignore). Valor channel, 1wp. Five: 4 (Strength) + 5 (MA) - 2 wound + 5 (1st excellency) = 12 dice. 3m.
2. Aggressor roll: 21 dice (1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 6, 7, 7, 7, 9, 9, 9) = 6sx. Uh, no.
3. Aggressor reroll: 21 dice (1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 7, 7, 8, 8, 9, 10) = 7 sx. For cryin' out loud! 3m.
4. Victim roll: 12 dice (2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8, 9) = 3 sx. Yuck.
5. Victim reroll: Not an option.
6. Base damage: 4L + 1L (Trireme Strikes the Rocks) + 4 sx = 9L.
7. Soak: PSS reduces soak to 7L and Hardness to 1L, piercing halves armor soak for final soak of 5L. Ping damage.
8. Result: Five takes 4 dice of damage (4, 7, 8, 10) for 3L damage and is treated as though his legs have been amputated, reducing his speed and disallowing his Dodge DV. Five remains clinched and inactive. Hero regains 1wp from successful stunt.

H: --|-----|----|-|-, wp: 1/8, psnl: 9/0/12, prph: 0/16/32, DV plty: -1, Soak: 13B/12L/10A, Ch: 3/1/3/0, Next action: 50

5: X|XX///|////|-|-, wp: 0/8, psnl: 0/9/12, prph: 9/9/32, DV plty: -2, Soak: 7B/7L/6A, Ch: 3/1/3/1, Next action: inactive

Epilogue

The torrent rushed into the cave, sending the fighters tumbling down into the center, vanishing at the bottom in a pool of rising water. The moss gives the waves an eerie emerald glow as they calm to softly lap against the cave walls. A chorus of drips, drops and plunks echoes in the cave, as drops from the stalactites fall into the otherwise still water. An occasional bubble from below breaks the surface.

Suddenly, the surface crashes open, revealing Hero, the blue glow from his skin catching in the mist and spray that falls back to the surface. Taking in breath, he pulls himself onto a ledge with one arm, dragging the limp form of Five behind him. As soon as Five is flopped unceremoniously down on the ledge, both of the fighters vanish in a flash.

The water soon stills again. Down below, Havoc Rose Nail waits, free again for the first time in decades. Perhaps next time, it thinks to itself, I will find a wielder smart enough to unlock my secrets. It wonders about how much cave rock and moss will grow over it before it is found again. Then it thinks nothing at all, and waits.

Conclusions

A section for what was learned

Hapushet

• THS' lack of form weaponry makes using it effectively exceptionally difficult. Without either damage boosts or accuracy bonuses, doing damage and maintaining clinches requires combinations of effects beyond the scope of this trial. Unless I somehow manage to get and maintain a hold on Five for an extended period, I require something like 17 successes on an attack or clinch contest to even do ping damage. Every successful use of Pounding Surf Style reduces that number by one, but when faced with such obstacles, Charms like the oft-mentioned Trireme Strikes the Rocks really don't seem too powerful.
• The clinch rules seem weird, but a closer examination seems to put the weight of the problem on the rules for Inactivity. If we didn't have that strange, "The state ends as immediately as it began" wording, I think the entire situation would have been more clear.
• Stunting repeated grapple contests is a pain in the ass.
• TrialBySchmendrick might require some rethinking where Dragon-Blooded are concerned. DBs run so heavily on their specialties that Schmendrick's generic stats don't reflect the way DBs are actually built, ever, and the low dice cap has kept both Wordman and myself from using all of our Charm options, since we were already maxed out. Future contests using the Pillar should consider allowing a two dots worth of Martial Arts specialties for each Schmendrick to more accurately model DB contests.
• Clinching is an incredibly powerful tactic in one-on-one battles. If successful, it is basically unstoppable.
• THS must be combined with a defensive package of some kind to be functional. Five-Dragon is a fairly complete combat style in itself, but THS relies pretty much entirely on the "best defense is a good offense" logic when used alone.
• In addition to all the holes in the grappling rules we found, here's one we managed to avoid: imagine if Five and Hero had gone on the same tick after Five broke free. If Five used Five-Dragon-Force Blow at the same time that Hero managed a successful clich, what would have happened?

Wordman

• It is possible for a combat to go for 50 ticks without one combatant getting a single action. Under the way we interpreted the clinching rules, Speed bonuses to clinch speed are extremely effective, allowing you to completely dictate the pace of one-on-one combat.
• I mentioned at the start that I considered using three two-dot artifacts, but went for heavier (3-dot) armor instead. I should have stuck with my initial instinct and used the spear, a 2-dot set of armor and hearthstone bracers. Had Five done that, this fight probably wouldn't have gone beyond tick 15 or so, because after clinch breaks, he and Hero would have acted simultaneously. Even if he only got in one attack before being clinched again, this probably would have been enough.
• I made at least two mistakes:
  • On the first escape (tick 5), I probably should have thrown Hero. I didn't anticipate that stunt, and the extra one or two dice penalty from forcing Hero to split his pool might have made a large difference on his next action.
  • I should have regained Willpower instead of motes on Tick 35.
• Five-Dragon Wrath is not as powerful as it sounds, because it only provides Essence attacks, not actions. It didn't actually occur in this fight, but there were several situations I considered that actually were not possible because of this. For example, a leap action followed by attacks is not possible with Wrath.
• Terrestrial Excellencies are weird because of the more efficient first excellency and the low terrestrial caps. There are very few situations where using Second Excellency is a good choice, since spending motes on the first will generate, on average, twice as many successes per mote. For static values, First is about the same as Second, but Third is often much better than both, at least for half of the possible cap.
• Grappling rules are completely hosed. I think the problem goes away if you ditch the idea of the victim going inactive, and simply limit his available actions, keeping his same tick count.
• I have yet to participate in a Second Edition combat that didn't raise some kind of timing problem.
• Stunting on reflexive rolls gained from the actions of others is sweet.

Observers

IanPrice

• Action Speed is life. It's not more important than attack, defense, or movement, but neither is it less.
• Combos are life and death. Especially when you stack multiple charms towards a single purpose.
• Grappling would not work so well in anything but 1 on 1, since even the aggressor has a significant DV penalty.

Initial Negotiations

Obviously this will use the Musician. Do you want to fight as Terrestrials? -- Wordman

Yeah, the Pillar is definitely on the list. If we're going to kick in for some additional Charms, I think I'm going to need Blade-Deflecting Palm and Become the Hammer, since I have no way to either parry or inflict lethal damage otherwise (stunts notwithstanding).

Ideally, in order to truly test the balance of the style, I'd like to use the Guardians and the Spear as well, and the Sorcerer too if you're so inclined, so the advantages and weaknesses of each style are fully explored. - Hapushet

I'd suggest that both fighters be given (Elemental) Style Formulation, to allow them to be any aspect without paying mote penalties on their style. This will matter mechanically if we are using aspect abilities. If not, it will still make a style/coolness visual difference. (I'd be equally up for either using or ignoring aspect abilities; what's your preference?). As for additional charms, I'm not opposed to them, but will need to read the DB book a bit more before I can select some. Perhaps taking no additional charms is a better test of if the style is "broken", but maybe those complaining about that are assuming use with other charms. I don't care either way.

I'd prefer to avoid anima effects and out-of-Aspect costs, lest they confuse the issue too far. I'm fine with the Style Formulation though, since as you said, it makes for cool visuals if nothing else. The additional Charms thing is mostly the Excellencies - by and large, there's a distinct possibility of bringing in Charms from outside the style that would be more effective than anything inside it. - Hapushet

Guardians and Spear sound fine. Want to give each a typical db 3 dot artifacts background (i.e. six dots worth of artifacts, no one artifact higher than three)? I can give or take Sorcerer. Again, since the point is to see if Terrestrial Hero is "broken", I'm not sure if adding combos clarifies or obcures that. If you want to do combos, say two combos per fighter? I don't think we need to put a limit on how many charms in the combo, really, since DBs can use reflexives anyway, and we're not going to know that many charms.

The 3 dots of Artifact was exactly what I was thinking, so yes. Question: given that I'm not going to be buying an artifact weapon, would you permit me to sub in a set of jade hearthstone bracers? As for Combos, if we're not going much outside the style, I don't think there's any danger of confusing the issue - it's more a question of whether there are Charms worth Comboing in your style or not. There are in Terrestrial Hero, but I'm not sure there would be in Five-Dragon. Maybe if you wanted a Combo of Five-Dragon Wrath with something... - Hapushet

Wanna try the Gauntlet or the Quiver as well? -- Wordman

Those both sound good. I'm thinking cave, possibly with eerie glowing moss for lighting... - Hapushet

OK, stuff I think we've agree on listed in the Signs section above. As for charms, how about you take Blade-Deflecting Palm and Become the Hammer, since these seem like rational extensions to the style that any db would take. This is not a drastic advantage charm-count-wise, taking Hero from knowing one less that Five to one more. How about each fighter also gets the first three Excellencies and two combos?

Agreed. In the previous fights a brief description of equipment has been tucked at the end of the two "fighter intros" above - we can just list our Combos there. - Hapushet

As for artifacts, I think by saying we'll use a three-dot background, that would imply you could buy whatever core book artifact you wanted with the points, including hearthstone bracers.

Shall we say the cave is roughly cubic, 15 yards on a side? The ground is both, slick, uneven and crumbly, giving a -2 (?) DV penalty. Further, there are a handful stalagmites onto which fighters can leap and stalagtites from which they can hang. I think the fighters have a high enough Athletics to avoid the issues from unstable footing listed on pg 155, but knockback will move someone from their position. (Speaking of which, we ignored this in the previous bout I was in, but since some of the charms of these styles actually enhance knockback, we should use it correctlty.) Some random rule questions:

• Height penalties are a bit obscure in the book, but I think the idea is that the guy on higher ground gets +X to DV while the guy on lower gets -X. Presumably an attack with a long weapon from low to high negates the bonus of the high guy, but an attack from high to low keeps the low guy's penalty. Without a map, it will be challenging to figure out position, but I think we can probably do it narritively. My suggestion is that we just say that there is never a situation in the cave where the level of one area is more than a yard higher then the adjacent area, so that X is never more than 1.
  • Sounds good. I agree with your interpretation of the height modifiers, but something else stuck out at me as I was reviewing that section of the rules. The chart on page 147 lists "Unstable Terrain" as being a generic DV penalty - it lacks the asterisk that marks it as "Dodge only" - but the text on the same page says that it is only a Dodge DV penalty. Frankly, the Dodge only thing makes more sense to me, but how do you want to handle it?
    • It is easier to accidentally forget an asterisk in a table than to accidentally insert an entire sentence, so I think we should assume the table is wrong and go with a dodge only penalty.
• Five-Dragon uses armor. Does this include shields? This may be moot, because I may choose to use a spear, but I'd be interested in the answer anway.
  • Grrr. Technically, I think shields are probably legit, the precedent of Crimson Pentacle Blade notwithstanding for 2nd Ed. Personally, however, I deplore the idea, not least because it suggests that I should be using a shield too, which doesn't work in my head at all.
    • With the uneven terrain, I'm going to use a spear, so we'll sidestep this one.
• Five-Dragon Blocking adds "half Essence" to PDV. There are a couple of ways to do this. I think the best way to deal with DV calculation is to avoid rounding as much as possible. My suggestion is, therefore, that this be calculated as round_up((Dex + Martial Arts + Defense + Essence) / 2). A more litteral reading of the text suggests the formula should be round_up((Dex + Martial Arts + Defense) / 2) + round_up(Essence / 2). I haven't run Schmendrick's numbers through these formulae, so I'm not sure if it even makes a difference, but the first one seems a bit more fair to me. It would be possible to get the benefit (or penalty, I suppose) of rounding twice otherwise.
  • Because the Essence in this case is even, there's no mathematical difference between the two. In general, though, I think I agee with you anyway - multiple roundings are to be avoided wherever possible.
• Five-Dragon Form adds Essence to "feats of strength". This obviously isn't intended to include damage, but does it include breaking clinches? I have a sneaking suspicion that this might matter slightly. Seems logical to me that it would.
  • I dunno... the text on page 127 of the core seems to apply a pretty specific definition to the term "feat of strength," and breaking out of grapples doesn't seem to be in it. It would, however, apply to attempts to throw someone as an improvised thrown object...
    • Didn't even know that definition was there. Let's apply that then, and say that it applies to throws but not grapples. (I know I will regret saying that.)
• Can the extra attacks from Riptide Method be applied to the same target. The tone and idea of the charm suggests not, but the text doesn't seem to prevent it.
  • I agree with you that the text doesn't come right out and say it, but reading it otherwise requires deliberately ignoring basically every sentence in the Charm. I'm gonna have to go with "no."

Player Chat

I'll let you decide how far apart we are. Also, committed Essence for Five - 32-9=23, yes? - Hapushet

I say about 10 yards. And yes, my math sucks. Corrected. -- Wordman

Uh... I just realized something. Five-Dragon Fist lacks any Combo Keyword. Heart Leaves Cage is therefore illegal... - Hapushet

So it does! D'oh! Well, I really didn't intend on using it anyway. Let's replace it with the same combo, minus Fist. -- Wordman

First off, I noticed both our bashing soaks were listed one point too high - Sta 4 + 9B = 13B soak. This has been fixed. Second, and more important, I'm uncomfortable with my level of luck in this blind, "you have to take my word for it" milieu. While I assure you that no cheating is involved, I can't help but think that some kind of mutually verifiable alternative would be better for dice-rolling purposes, so these tests are not tainted by any suspicion of misdeed. I don't really know of anything, but surely there's somewhere in the vast wilderness of the Internets? - Hapushet

My bad on the soak calculation. Note that this changes Five's "lethal" soak as well. As for dice rollers, I think White Wolf runs one. I trust your rolls, though. If I didn't I would have insisted on using the sign of the Mast. Peircing rounds down (pg. 373), so soak after is actually 8B, not that it matters. Question: does peircing affect hardness? As far as I can tell from page 149, it doesn't. If not, Five could use Five-Dragon Invulnerability to boost his hardness to 12, which would prevent damage. What do you think? - Wordman

Ouch - I hadn't thought of that; it'll get expensive, but it'd probably be worth it. No, piercing is completely ineffective against Hardness, so ping me away. - Hapushet

Oh yeah, forgot to regain my WP for my stunt. That is, assuming that getting you clinched is enough to qualify as "success" - that's really all I was trying for, at any rate.- Hapushet

Okay, now I'm screwed. - Hapushet

Let's proceed using TonyC's suggested fix for clinches. I still think it might end up letting the whole combat go by without Five actually ever having an action, but we'll see. I probably should throw you to some distance where you'd have to move before attacking me, but you'd probably just leap, so screw it. -- Wordman

I'm having a strange sense of deja vu here. Let's see if you manage two successes on your stunt dice, which would be enough to avoid history repeating itself... - Hapushet

Just wanted to note that I'm at a weekend conference at the moment (not GenCon, sadly) - I probably won't get a chance to update until Monday. Wordman, you can start the next tick if you want - there's no need to wait on me for that, at least... - Hapushet

Wordman, do you want to finish this? I hate to say it, but repeated grapple contests are boring the hell out of me. Had I the slightest alternative that would actually get through your Hardness and soak without killing me, I'd take it, but at the moment, I'm pretty much burned out on this. What do you think? - Hapushet

I suppose it's served its purpose. I probably should have just surrendered, but a) I was holding out to see what would happen when you ran out of willpower, but that now seems unlikely, b) because I'm not a fan of wussing out at the first sign of trouble and c) Schmendrick never surrenders, dammit! How about we just assume that Hero continued to crush Five to unconsciousness. I'm sort of curious about what happens after that. Does the audience get to find out who the "real" Schmendrick was? Or who the mysterious masters of this fight were? -- Wordman

I think they were both real Schmendricks, and I don't imagine the secrets behind the battles of infinite Schmendricks will be resolved until TrialBySchmendrick itself comes to a close.

Also, before I forget - my congratulations to an awesome opponent. - Hapushet, happy to have had that, at least

Thanks. Likewise, and congratulations on your victory. -- Wordman

Observer Comments

Five-Dragon Combos are easy. Five-Dragon Wrath + Five-Dragon Fist or Five-Dragon Force Blow. Expensive, but you'll ruin anyone's day. - IanPrice

Predictions anyone? - Wordman

Well, I haven't got the new book yet, but I've always considered 5DS a solid utility style. So I'll vote for Five! Ra Ra Ra! - nikink

A great deal depends on how fast I can sucessfully grapple him. - Hapushet

Yes. For Five, speed matters even more, since Hero has a number of charms that accumulate bad effects on Five. - Wordman

I may be wrong here, but Hero looks well and truly boned unless he starts augmenting his defence with more than the third excellency. Essence is no good to him dead, may as well spend what he has I say! *shrug* - nikink

I'm open to suggestions. - Hapushet

Are there really no defensive Charms in THS that are applicable? I don't have the book, so I do not know. Oh well, maybe the walkaway charms and extra HL will be useful... - nikink

In a word, no. THS is much like Solar Hero - there really isn't any defense to speak of in it. The Form has a soak option, but I'd need to waste a misc. action switching over, and frankly, +5L soak isn't going to save me in the long run anyway. I think I had my shot and blew it - now it's just a question of stunting and praying that some opening appears. - Hapushet

Ok. Damn. If soak is all you've got though, you may as well use it. I guess it's weigh up whether an extra 3 DV is more useful than the extra 5 soak... I guess, given the Spear will be piercing, that the DV is the better choice. Hmmm... bummer for Hero. What about the other excellencies? they could net upto +4 DV? Just clutching at straws here... nikink

The spear isn't peircing. I wouldn't be so sure Hero is completely out of it.. If he survives this set of attacks, he'll probably win. If Five keeps augmenting attacks with Excellencies, he's going to be out of Essence. This whole action was meant to be an all-or-nothing, blow-his-wad kind of attack. -- Wordman

My survival is looking expectionally questionable. - Hapushet

TonyC mentioned a timing problem, and I've diverted the conversation to Rulings/GrappleTiming. Please join in. -- Wordman

We're holding the fight in hopes of getting a consensus asnwer, right? - Hapushet

I must admit I'm bemused by the lack of form weaponry for THS. Given that it replaces the old Brawl tree, which was useful with brawl weapons and improvised weapons it seems odd to remove them from use with the style. It's not errata'd anywhere is it by chance? - nikink

Nope, it seems to be intentional. Which is one of the reasons - probably the single largest reason - why I think those who complain about the power of Trireme Strieks the Rocks simply aren't taking the Charm's context into account. - Hapushet

Tick 15 stunt is way cool. Good work, Hapushet! - nikink

I think Wordman's stunt is way cool too... that's just looking like an awesome moment in the fight, now isn't it? - IanPrice

Absolutely! - nikink

On the flurry question raised above: I would say that such actions in the flurry would be legal, but remember that you'd also have to put a Break Hold action in there (even if it's unrolled, ie, not throwing) to tell the rules that your arms aren't maintaining the clinch. Or get it allowed through a stunt bending the rules (as in this case, where a well described stunt might allow a kick or stab despite your held neck). Most importantly though, I'd remind you that the whole thing becomes moot if you lose the clinch contest, which becomes more likely if you put the flurry penalty on yourself. The loser's inactivity is pretty clear, even if when it ends isn't. - IanPrice

I started yet another Rulings page, Rulings/FlurriesInGrapples, to examine the matter further. Regardless, it doesn't seem to have any bearing here. - Hapushet

Would just like to say wow again, guys. Tick 35 is awesome! I wish I had players this good at stunting! nikink

Doing damage defensively:

1. Guard, with spear set.
2. Attack on the tick the charge attack hits you.

Simple, elegant, no rules questions. Am I wrong? - IanPrice

Probably not, though the text implies something more complicated. Certainly, it would have been nice to have that kind of things laid out as an attack manuever or something. Still, your solution works more than well enough. - Hapushet

So... I guess Hero is gonna win. At this point I can't see Five making any significant comeback. So much for my prediction! - nikink Highly entertained

For the record, I have been entirely at the mercy of the dice until about two actions ago. As long as Five had wp, had I failed to clinch him again after losing control of the clinch, he would have killed me in a single use of Teeth of the Hydra. Had I lost the Join Battle roll, this fight would have been over in approximately one tick. - Hapushet

Perhaps. But that's kind of moot, cuz you did win the Join Battle roll. So it seems the styles are, while different, fairly equal in that case. Whoever wins the JB wins. That's a bit simplistic though. Hero has one trick to penetrate hardness, and without it is at a distinct disadvantage, which does make for a tedious grappling contest. However, this has been a very cool battle, fluffwise if not crinchwise. Well done! - nikink

I'd be interested in seeing some observers fill in the "Conclusions" section. -- Wordman

As would I. And the epilogue is gorgeous. One last three die stunt, I think. - Hapushet