Difference between revisions of "SolarLore/FWWCommentsOld"

Latest revision as of 01:17, 6 April 2010

Archived Comments for SolarLore/FourWillowsWeeping

If I understand A Sun for Every Season correctly it provides extra profiles for GSS (or equivalent) equal to Essence * the number of times the Charm has been purchased? This assumes that you're using PowCom, of course... - Moxiane

Yes, that's right. - w

For Dancing with the Elements, why not simply give it the effects of a Dragon-Graced Weapon? And for Integral Understanding, you might want to limit the number of times the Charm may be purchased to equal the Solar's Lore; this means that each Solar only gets a few new signature anima flares, which seems cooler than adding endlessly to one's anima library with sufficient XP. - Quendalon

The DwtE effects are basically juiced-up-slightly, parametric Dragon-Graced Weapons. I think that's a good idea for IU; it's changed. - w

Brilliant Jewel Lance is brilliant yet tricky; you have to design a new variant for every Hearthstone it's used with, and that can be a lot of work. I'd add a nominal charge of 1xp per variant "learned," at a restraint on excessive BJL experimentation at the Storyteller's expense. - Quendalon

Thanks! I'm of the opinion that one shouldn't punish the players for using interesting stuff, and the limited availability of attuned stones should be a limiting factor in itself, but I see why you might consider such a rule. - willows

Perhaps it could have a standarized effect? Give the player an additional X points to add to the weapon, where X is the rating of the hearthstone. And an ability tied to the flavor of the rock? Something like an elemental effect for Terrestial Stones, and an MM effect for hearthstones of celestial aspect?

Scrollreader

In my opinion, making any attempt to standardize the effects of the Charm would completely negate its coolness. It would not remain even remotely cool. Moxiane has another GSS upgrade, Resplendent Solar Blade which is more to that effect. Baically what this Charm is trying to do is do one better than the Materia and the weird customizable weaponry of the Final Fantasy series - any Stone that doesn't already affect your attacks in some way should have its own, esoteric effect. I wouldn't be opposed to a set of guidelines for appropriate power levels for different Hearthstone levels, though. That could be very useful. - willows

Requiring storytellers to make up something new each time a charm is used is a bit excessive. I foresee problems in implementing this charm. Example: I activate it in the middle of combat, because I need something new to surprise the enemy. I just learned the charm, and haven't had time to talk with my storyteller yet about how it would work with my Hearthstones. What would happen? Storyteller consternation. Or my unhappiness with an on-the-fly ruling that would probably be unbalanced and need changing later. I recommend requiring training time to develop unique effects. If you want to allow the charm to be used on the fly with Hearthstones that nothing has been developed for, I recommend having first-time users get the standard effects of the Hearthstone when it is in an attuned weapon.

IanPrice

A non-stupid storyteller would know his player has such a Charm and be prepared to discuss effects when giving him Hearthstones. - willows

I love Brilliant Jewel Lance, it is beyond cool and goes off the scale on my Funk-o-Meter™. :) I can see the problem with working out the power granted by the stone, though - it is similar to the issues with Demesne & Manse Form. Questions on it, though - my assumption with BJL is that the Hearthstone used has to be one that the character is attuned to but is not set in a socketed item, correct? Also that, much like warstriders and lightning cannon, the power of the Hearthstone is entirely directed towards creating the effect and so the character doesn't get access to the Hearthstone's power while using it in BJL? - Moxiane

I've went up and made clarifications on BJL. - w

New question! Should we use the Melee requirement or the Lore requirement for BJL? Or could we use both, as in a dual Ability requirement (which seems to be not inappropriate thematically)? -Suzume

Suzume: There are two ways I go with BJL. Interpretation 1 is that it is an advanced form of the Ability's self-sufficiency effect; it allows the Solar to enhance his brilliance of spirit and mastery of abillity with his other characteristic accoutrements. In this case, it is an effect keyed to the appropriate Ability; there exist variations for any Ability that contains a self-sufficiency effect...which, come to think of it, is a good yardstick for what makes a good Ability. More on that later, though.

In the second case, it is an application of the Solar's masterful understanding of Essence, which allows him to draw out a Hearthstone's power in more flexible and innovative ways. Looked at in this manner, the Charm is Occult or Lore (I don't know where Solars tend to place these), and once learned, it allows you to dovetail Hearthstones into any arbitrary self-sufficiency effect. Obviously this is a reinterpretation, and has little to do with what I was thinking when I actually wrote the Charm(s), so I'll be editing them to reflect this in a bit.

In either case, I don't think there is really any justification for dual Ability requirements, and I find them inelegant. Your opinion may vary on this; I know that DS is rather fond of them. - willows

It does vary, but that's cool. ^^ I'll just use a dual ability requirement version if and when I find a good place to use BJL, and no hard feelings. I do understand your concerns with the unwieldy-ness of dual-requirement charms, but personally, I have more of a problem with two identical versions of the same charm with differing requirements. Just, as I said, personal opinion. -Suzume (ps. So are a few people, fond of dual requirement mechanics.)

Actually, after reading this version of the charm, it might be better for your perception of things to move this charm over to Lore completely, or perhaps to Occult, rather than leave any trace of it in Melee. Just a thought. -Suzume

You are right! I have done so, taking the relevant comments with it. - w

After rereading the excellent essence-construct charms, I realized something a little weird. To get Brilliant Jewel Lance, you need three self-sufficiency charms... as far as I know, there are only 4 or 5, and what if you don't want to learn how to create ships or horses (or what have you) of pure essence? It would make sense to strip that requirement, possibly in all of the charms except A sun for Every Season. If you want to make them take X charms to get there, then I suggest allowing them to purchase multiple copies of A Sun for Every Season to stand in for self-sufficency charms.
-- Darloth

Is this a response to an earlier version of the Charm? That description of the requirements is not correct for this version. - willows

No, it's valid for the version on this page, going by my reading of the word 'additional' and the charm pre-requisites of Brilliant Jewel Lance and the charms before it. I've worked out that if you're counting Phantom Arrow, Solar Spike and the chakram one, that there are actually some more, but I believe that to some extent my question still stands.
-- Darloth

I'm not sure where you are getting that reading, as ASfES calls for 1, and BJL calls for a second. Can you clarify? - willows

Neither am I, to be honest. I -did- read it over, but I must have missed something. Sorry ^_^
-- Darloth

Flock of birds freedom forge seems to be replicating the effect of a (usually fairly powerful or high-up) charm with no cost, at only 2pts. I'd suggest you make that effect one of the 4pt ones, personally, since that effect is usually much better than any of the similar effects at that level. However, to make it comparable to the half-parry/half-dodge effects, perhaps the target should be given a reflexive Wits + Awareness roll (diff 2?) to defend... and a 4pt version makes it completely unaware, much as the 4pt versions make something unparriable or undodgable.
-- Darloth

Hm. - w

I Really like Essence Weaponry Enhancements, but shouldn't Thunderbolt-Taming Anvil and Lotus of Incomparable Technique have a note like "If the charm mimiced has a willpower cost, that cost must be payed each time the effect would activate, or it will not occure."? Else you get things like the Sword of Heavenly Defence, which seems a little cheap at this level. - Dasmen

I thought so too, but then realized the trick - you'd need to have an ability rating two higher than that of the charm, meaning a Melee of 6. Hence, Essence 6. To me, conjuring a sword for 5m 1WP for the sword itself, plus another 6m for the HGD, and it's an 11m 1WP sword. (Personally, I'd prefer if it were a 11m 2WP sword, because I think you should have to pay WP cost as well). To get that, you'd need both the sword-creation charm, HGD itself, and this charm, which is a lot of charms. And frankly, with so many charms, at Essence 6, that's something you can do. You can make a sword, forged from your very soul, that will defend against any attack. Trick is, can someone disarm it? Can they get around it? At Essence 6, almost anything is possible. But yeah, perhaps making them pay the WP cost every time is a good idea. Else you get bows that can always shoot perfect attacks, which is scary when they activate arrow storm technique, and every shot hits everyone in range, all the time. Then again, Solars are dangerous to armies at Ess 3. They're virtual army-killers by Essence 4. At essence 5, the killing of an army should be fairly easy. By 6, yeah, I can see just making a bow that kills armies, and a sword that ignores attacks. If HGD weren't so damn applicability-trumping at such a low ability cost, it'd be even easier. If it required ability 5, or just wasn't so trumping, this wouldn't even be an issue. Oh, and one more thing - HGD is what saved the Solars from the Primordials, right? But with multi-attacks, and tons of enemies, it'd get expensive... unless it was tied into their weapons by their very nature. Heck, this charm could be how HGD was used as a defensive technique - set your weapon up, then get moving with the real work. -- GregLink, just discussing

There are ways of increasing your Skills above five without getting essence abouve five (that's why most cast books will have an Ability:6 Essence:5 charm in them). And no, you can't get around Heavenly Guardain Defence, that's the big thing with it. As is, this is better then The Protectiong of Celestial Bliss once you've actived your sence-long refecsive parry charm. Something that feels more Essence eight then six to me. - Dasmen

What a neat result! You missed the interaction with Heroes' Lantern Style, where you can build a coct / hgd / surprising / heroicpiercing knife and still have 12 points to sling around as you like them. Also, hgd is broken. - willows

More seriously, you're not supposed to ignore "I leave this to your judgement." The Charm integration is for you to make HTT knives, not CoCT knives. -w

You still need some text going over how it interacts will charms that cost a Willpower. Saying "I leave this to your judgement" is all well and good (and should be automaticly assumed for any optional set of rules like we post on the wiki), but that isn't an excuse for half done charms. -d

Omissions are text too! You should be able to conclude from the very specific mention of mote cost that I've thought about Willpower. Obviously I wrote this Charm in the middle of the night and it's not necessarily a good way to handle it, I'm thinking about alternatives, but it's not a missing rule, it's just one you have to read carefully to find. - willows