Difference between revisions of "SpellRelay/Ruination"

Latest revision as of 01:17, 6 April 2010

• Back to CrunchRelay
• Back to SpellRelay

The Tenth Theme is Ruination

Clinging Misfortune - Shadowlands Circle NECROMANCY -- Paincake
Cost: 15+ motes

The sorcerer concentrates on a strand of his target's flesh or speaks their name alound continuously and with growing hatred. He may channel extra essence into his spell in 5 mote intervals to add to the duration, but each time he does so the length of the spell grows exponentially. (Ex: Half a scene is the unmodified casting time. When invested with 5 further motes, the time doubles to a full scene. Five further motes, the duration becomes two scenes.) To a max of Occult. When complete this malediction seeks its target in the form of an invisible vapor. When it catches him, it wafts silently into his lungs and soaks into his skin like a filthy coating of grime. (Supernatural beings resist with Essence+Integrity (Mortals with Willpower -2) At Diff. 3) Every 10 motes invested over the minimum reduces the dice pool of the resisting party by 1.

The spell cannot be smelled or seen except by supernatural means, but animals can sense it and react negatively to the target. This spell lasts for a month per permanent essence of the caster. (Every 5 extra motes spent allows the caster to roll his essence to determine how many months longer it lasts) The world itself seems to reject him, and he gains a -1 penalty to all actions as reality shies from his fouled being. Being nearly animal themselves, people will remain out of arm's reach. All of the target's social rolls have an additional -2 penalty when he is near his intended audience. A person thus afflicted appears out of sync with reality, and the taint of his misfortune will cause a botched roll when the accumulated energies dissapate at the spell's end.

Soul Annexing Procedure - Man-Machine Protocol -- ArabianNinja
Cost: 20 motes
Clarity: 4

The use of this Protocol within the bounds of Autochthon designate cautionary flags against the Essence signature of the targets. Used primarily in the hunt for dissidents found in the Far Reaches beyond the Cities of Autochthon, enabling the caster to mark several small colonies with this protocol so when they are reborn back in Autochthon society, they will be designated amoungst the lowest levels of the populat.

However, the use of this Protocol within Creation has proven startling with the varied Results due to the differences between Pattern Spiders, and Design Weavers.

When used against the Mortals and Terrestrial Exalted of creation, their lives take an immediate turn for the worst.
When used against Mortals be they extras or Heroic Mortals, or Dragon Blooded, their Target Number increases by 2 for all non-reflexive rolls, for days equal to the casters Essence. The Protocol may target upto Essence x 10 mortals, or only Essence Dragon Blooded at the same time.

When used against the Celestial Exalted of creation, the Spell is far more dire, as they will immediatly suffer from a disruption to their alignment within the loom of fate, and be affected as if they were a prime offender of Pradox.
When used against any Celestial Exalted type (be they outside fate or not) they will immediatly be afflicted wth 10 points of paradox, which will register with the Patter Spiders in 11-(casters Essence) days time. In this time they may attempt to perform the necessary rituals to alliviate the paradox inflicted upon them. However, only the Sidereal Exalted will have the necessary knowledge to both detect the paradox build up (wits+lore difficulty equal to target exalts essence), and be able to detail the necessary proceedure for them to remove it. Celestial exalted may attempt to divine the nature of the protocol made against them with a successful perception+occult check, but knowledge of the ritual to remove the points paradox is somthing they may not know.
After the time passes and the target was unable to perform the necessary rites, they are immediately afflicted by a single Paradox poison rolled on a single d10 (see list on page 215 of Exalted: The Sidereals for effects).
The Protcol may only be targeted at a single Exalt at a time.

Targets must be within sight of the caster.

Blessing of Self Realization - Celestial Circle Sorcery -- FlowsLikeBits
Cost: 30 motes

This spell was intended to increase a targets capacity for excellence by encouraging them behave in ways that would increase their inner strength. It worked, but not in the manner that was intended.

This spell may be cast on anyone within sight of the caster(including herself). When this spell is cast, four symbols rotate around the sorcerer, these are a Ring, a Cup, a Sword and a Staff. Those who have the ablity to percieve Essence will see one of these symbols fly along the ethereal plane and embed in the targets essence. There is no visible effect however.

Mechancily, the target gains a limit track and Limit Break similar to a Solar Exalted. The targets player should work with the Storyteller to select an appropraite curse and trigger condition. When this limit track is first created, it has a number of full boxes equal to the casters Essence. This limit track functions in all ways like that of a Solar Exalted. When it is filled, the charachter will go into Limit Break, with the attendant willpower gain. This functions in all ways like the Solar Great Curse, with three exceptions.

1)In fact, Solar Exalted are slighly resistant to this spell and do not have their limit condition modified in any way. This spell instant gives the target a number of boxes of limit equal to the Casters Essence, although if this pushes the charachter into limit break, the break does not take effect until the next time the charachter would gain limit. This is the only effect of this spell on Solars. 2)Charachters who gain a limit break via this spell cannot forgo the willpower gain and act out a weaker version of the curse. 3)Every time the charachter limit breaks, the size of their limit track is reduced by 1. Thus, after 10 breaks, they are free of the spell. If targeted by this spell again before they free themselves from it in this manner, the size of their limit track is reset to 10,and they then gain a number of limit boxes equal to the casters essence.

This spell is a curse by most definitions, but it keeps it's original name.

Enduring Gift, Hallowed and in Purity Born - Labyrinth Circle Necromancy -- Paincake
Cost: 20 motes

The knowledge of what the spell does lies its way into the head of a target as it is cast; the promise of "An utter and complete devotion to your love." Generally, in the target's sleep and dreams.

The Deathlords devised this ingenious treasure in the ancient days and they use it for the furthering of their dark designs. Abyssal Caste Exalted are often taught this spell, but several of the most powerful dark spirits have learned Arcanoi of corresponding power or this very enchantment. A 'gift' of love and wonder, the spell works simply; When cast it teaches its living target an instinctive and intuitive control over their 'hun' or higher soul, bringing it under their conscious awareness for a single purpose; they may devote it to another in truest love. If their compassion is high enough, it may be difficult not to do so without thinking. (Roll compassion, Diff 1, each time they and their True Love share a deeply emotional moment)

The instant that the target of this spell uses this ability that they have gained, their very self is enslaved to eternal devotion. Its first subject is their true love; the foolish give themselves away so utterly, to fall to grief at love's departure or defrauding, or to waste away in bitter resentment as their own desires are forever turned to uses more fitting their new needs. These helpless, tortured spirits give rise to excellent slaves in the afterlife.

Upon the target's death this spell creates powerful Po and Hun spirits in the underworld, each beings on par with Nemissaries, but distinctively of their own nature. (A Po will be a savagely powerful, strangely intelligent and loyal Hungry Ghost, similar to what high-essence beings leave behind. The Hun will rise as an bloated Ghost, regal and commanding in nature.) Due to magical sympathy they are invariably loyal to the caster of the spell after their deaths, often treating the caster as the very love they sacrificed their literal 'all' to. Abyssal Exalts often travel with retinues of these creatures as their hounds or elite soldiers when they hunt, and it sickens even stalwart foes to see the strange gifts these beings bestow upon their cruel masters, their undying loves.

Essence Over-Spike Method - God-Machine Protocol -- ArabianNinja
Cost: 35 Motes
Clarity: 7

Gremlins are an ever persistant problem in Autochthon, and occasionally so to are Alchemical Champions affected by Dissonance, and they too becoming victims of Gremlin Syndrome. The use of this protocol is designed to send an over-abundant surge of Essence into the spirits and machines that are targeted, causing internal fail-safes to cause the Rogue target to shut down Immediately. When used against Machine Spirits, Automatons and Alchemicals, the protocol will immediatly render them incapacitated for Casters Essence + (Targets Essence x 2) days.

However, Exalts, Spirits, and Essence Weilders in Creation do not have the necessary fail-safes to cause the same shut-down. Instead their Essence begin to react erraticly, and potentially dangerously, for a time equal to Casters Essence + (Targets Essence x 2) days, with the following effects (if applicable):
Anima powers are rendered useless for the duration.
Artifacts will cause thier rating in bashing damage every turn untill removed. However this will only be from the highest rated Artifact that is being worn at a time. Thus a target weilding a lvl 3 and lvl 2 artifact will take 3 bashing per turn untill they have discarded it, and then they will suffer 2 bashing damage untill the second artifact is removed. This damage can be soaked naturally.
The Targets Anima banner will flare at full for the duration of the Protocol where appilcable.
Expenditures of Essence will incur 1d10 extra motes to the cost for the first expenditure per turn, and an additonal 1 mote increase for every expenditure after that for the rest of the turn.
Spending 5+ motes of Essence (not including the forced increase) will cause 1 Level of unsoakable lethal damage.
In addition when spending 8+ motes (again, before increase) roll 1d10, which will affect the following attribute(s):
1: Strength
2: Dexterity
3: Stamina
4: Charisma
5: Manipulation
6: Appearance
7: Perception
8: Intelligence
9: Wits
10: All Attributes

The character loses 1 point from the attribute rolled for the duration of the protocol, and for (casters essence) days after. After of which the points return at a rate of 1 dot per day, in the order of their loss. If an attribute is lowered to a negative value then the stat loss becomes permanent equal to the negative value. (eg. Victim has Wits 3, and over the course of the protocol, is lowered to -1 wits, their new permanent Wits becomes 2).

The Duration of the Protocol is extended by half a day per level of hearthstone the target may be carrying at the time, regardless if the stone becomes de-attuned in the mean time. If the target attempts to wait out the duration of the protocol within the confines of an attuned Manse the duration will simply hold over while inside.

To affect beings of equal or higher Essence than the caster, the caster must gain 3 successes on an opposed Willpower+ Essence roll.

Unmake - Solar Circle Sorcery -- Paincake
Cost: All Motes + 1 Permanent Will and 1 Permanent Essence

Must be within sight of target.

The meaning in this spell has been nearly lost. Only the truth remains, clear as dying light or mourning.
Written in Yozi-script and sealed with the blessing of the Maidens. Conjecture and thoery at present, but soon a reality.
Unleashed, destroys the portion of the weave that housed a person's history; past, present, and future.
Grants the user temporary 'Primordial-level-threat' status.
The Incarna are prepared to personally Annihilate any who so infringe upon Reality.

Comments

A mediocre opening to what is surely an equally mediocre theme selection. Hurrah! - Paincake

Questions!

1. Why isn't this necromancy?
2. Wouldn't increasing the difficulty for mortals be preferable to reducing their dicepool (a mechanic with little precedent)? Also, I think it'd be a nice idea to decide definitively between Intelligence+Integrity or Willpower.
3. Speaking of which, why Intelligence? Wouldn't Essence be more appropriate?
4. Could you clarify exactly how long the spell's casting takes with the further investiture of each Essence increment?

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! ...DeathBySurfeit

Decided to put my money where my mouth is, a Man-Machine Protocol for those Gear-heads out there. - ArabianNinja

I'm a bit worried about this, due to it's TN-altering properties. Taking a poor Mortal or Terrestrial from TN7 to TN9 drops their effective successes per die from 0.4 to 0.2, effectively halving all die pools. There's no resist to speak of, nor real way to stop the effect. Get any other die-pool-reducing effect? It's ok, if someone drops you 3 dice - you just buy them back up with 1st Excellency. Thing is, with this spell, you not only reduce the value of current dice, but also future dice, and thus, you're even reducing the mote efficiency of the 1st Excellency (but not the second, interestingly!) Thus, in terms of pure seige or distance combat, if you've got one round to get this spell off, you can halve all die pools. Essence+Willpower? That's halved. Dex+Dodge? That's halved too. Compare to something like the flying guillotine, or perhaps the smoke cobras - this spell is a bit more powerful. Not the end of the world, but still more powerful. Except that this targets dozens of targets, or even 3 DB's, you can really neutralize most of a circle in a single round. It's especially painful given the certainy of DV's in 2nd Ed, where it's easy enough to get a DV that's half of your target's attack pool - in fact, that's kind of the norm. Except that you then halve said pool, meaning you're nigh unhittable. I'd normally say the non TN-affecting Celestial version makes more sense, as it doesn't screw with TN's, but it also has no resist to speak of, and on a 1d10, is really a lottery chance of screwing over nearly anyone. With effects such as "You pass out", "You take 1d10 Agg damage" and, "You lose all temporary Essence, and can't get it back", this can fell the mightiest Exalt. Hell, I'd venture that giving a Deathlord pattern bite might be a way to take one out. With a flat "No willpower, and you can't get more" or a flat "No essence, and you can't get more", that's a total castration of an Exalt's power. And you're doing it at (effectively) a Terrestrial Sorcery level, with no resist. -- GreenLantern, who totally commends you for innovative theories of sorcery, but is thinking this is so much more at least Celestial level, even after it gets toned down.

I agree. That's easily god-machine level in creation as currently written, and powerful for that. I like the Clinging Misfortune, but I think I agree with DBS, it sounds like necromancy to me. A little clarification as well would be nice - such as when 'may well' means 'will'. Also, what difficulty resist for mortals - currently, your wording implies difficulty 2 resist is for exalts only, but leaves the question of mortal resistance difficulty blank. (Presumably, 2 or higher. On average, a heroic mortal has 6-8 willpower, giving 2-3 successes on a passable roll with the -2 penalty.)
-- Darloth

ONecromancy sounds good. =D That man-machine protocol is interesting as f*ck. o.o I wish I remembered Pattern Bite enough to comment on it further, but it does sound pleasantly arbitrary. (I am a big fan of "IT HAPPENS, SO TOO BAD" because I trust myself(the ST) or my friends when they ST to take care that I have fun. This is also why I occasionally leave things hazy in spells or charms/artifacts; I don't want anyone to be forced to use something they find cumbersome.) And finally, the reason it was originally not Necromancy is because I like the idea of First Age and even contemporary spellcasters resorting to darker and darker manipulations of sorcery before they finally tap into Necromancy. - Paincake

Yeah,I'm gonna say the TN increasing thing is a BIT much.(Note: Probablity Degredation Matix was also a BIT much, so I wouldn't point to it). I'd reduce all die pools by the casters Essence or something. -FlowsLikeBits

The protocol itself is a little much admittedly, but its meant to be scary, the probability degradation matrix is far worse than my concoction, or so I believe. Note that it reduces the TN of all non-reflexive rolls, so defense is still viable, attack is not. And yes, you can turn a fortress full of mortals into a bunch of bumbling fools, but thats the point. I ran the protocol past my regular ST, and a couple other players, they saw it as being relatively balanced. Given the option that all targets could be affected by a Paradox Poison was a far meaner thing to do if you could hit Essence x 10 mortals. However, I am not unsympathetic to your arguments, the protocol is a tad bit over the top, so I'll bump up the casting cost, and 30 motes is fairly pricey, but apt given its a persistent effect in most quaters. But I can make a much scarier God-machine Protocol, and I will, just to show ;) - ArabianNinja

Honestly, I'd just make it increase TN for everyone, if that's what you want. You have about a 70% change of an auto-kill with the Paradox table. (That table is really, really, really, harsh). -FlowsLikeBits, didn't even see that the first time around.

70%? hardly the only thing that will kill you out of that list is the Essence venom, which is between 1-10 dice which you can still soak with armour. It will seriously mess opponents up, thats for sure. And thats the entire point, its not meant to be forgiving. In Autochthon relegating someone to the lowest level of the populat means they haul carts of garbage/waste/etc for the entirety of their next 3 life cycles before they are even considered worthy enough to be of tolerable level for promotion. The Protocol screams ruination, and thats what its meant to do. I'll hold off posting the God-Machine protocol for now, untill this is resolved, but I can be a stubborn fool sometimes :P - ArabianNinja

Actually, I'm not sure you can soak the Essence Venon(always assumed not actually. Even if you can). Anyway, other effects are: Lose all Essence or Willpower and it cannot be regained for 1-10 days. Auto death sentance if cast on an enemy. Permenant -3 wound penalty that cannot be fixed. -1 to Permenant Essence, reducing charm availablity. This is also a death sentance if cast of a foe, as they lose access to their most powerful charms. Put target into perfect comma for 1-10 days. Again, auto-kill. This is why I'd just increase target numbers for everyone. -FlowsLikeBits

Given the points made, I've adjusted the effect slightly. - ArabianNinja

ArabianNinja, I've got to say that from the moment I saw the recent changes list, I was worried. With a previous spell that had numerous "too powerful!" comments, and a reply of "But I can make a much scarier God-machiine protocol, and I will...", it implies that you're not quite in the right mind-set. It's easy to make too-powerful effects. Hell, it's easy as pie to say "Terrestrial level spell, no resist, disrupting essence flows within the character, doubling all charm costs, and each time you activate a charm, you lose 2 permanent health levels and a permanent Essence. Lasts the caster's Essence in years." and be done with it. Just because you can type it doesn't make it good, fair, thematic, or fun. Having said that, I'm again worried by this latest spell. While some of the backstory explanation is pretty good, as it tells a story, the results are a bit over the top. Automatically shutting down a spirit or Exalt is paramount to an instant kill, for all intents and purposes. Especially when it's not putting them to sleep (such that they'd wake up when hit) but instead actually shutting them off, meaning a coup d'etat is just a few stabs away. It gets weirder, and much more complicated, with Creation-based beings. Here, you've got a spell of roughly Celestial level that directly affects Essence usage (even though canonically, Exaltation is inviolate and can't be f'ed with, which I believe includes the basic powers of an Exalt, such as anima abilities). How does it do it? Well, it increases most charm costs by a factor of 2-4X per usage, meaning a flurry on the part of your opponent will turn your five 1m defenses into 5m+5d10m of usage, for an average cost of about 30m, and quite possibly your life? Why? Because you also took 3 unsoakable lethal, and lost at least 3 points of attributes (up to 30!). If that was a Lunar you were fighting, they just lost access to their most powerful charms too, as they're attribute based, and those scores just dropped. So now you've got a situation. You've just multiplied your opponent's charm usage cost by a factor of 2-5X, they're taking unsoakable lethal when they do use a charm (and with a minimum average cost of 6m per charm, that's two charms per turn to cause attribute loss and unsoakable damage), and they also take unsoakable bashing from their artifacts? So that guy wearing Artifact 5 plate, with an Artifact 5 sword just took 10 bashing? (Is that per round? Per tick? Per day? Unclear) And will continue to do damage to me? So you've effectively disarmed me, upped my charm costs, are reducing my attributes, and making me flare anima banner like there's no tomorrow? Thank the Sun there's at least a resist. Or is there? With a requirement not that there's always an opposed roll, but instead only against things of higher Essence than the caster (strictly greater than, not greater-than-or-equal-to), and the fact that casters pretty much run straight for the highest Essence they can get, this resist roll doesn't apply to the vast majority of people you'll be facing. Even if it was >=, the roll is Willpower+Essence, which has no die adder, nor charms that affect it. No Exalt type has Willpower favored, nor Essence favored. There are no excellencies for it (nor excellency equivalents). Thus, a homebrew MA or PAoC style gives you a mammoth advantage, as you'd be the only guy around who can boost that roll. Same thing if you've got a custom artifact to boost such things (and I know at least one sorceror in a game I play that does). Either way, I'll make the same claims against this spell that I did the last one. Too powerful, too many effects, and just over-reaching. Just because you can write something mean doesn't make it good. Just because the sorceror that designed it meant for it to be evil or powerful doesn't mean you need to break the game to do so. -- GreenLantern

What he said. Also, 30m is damn cheap.
-- Darloth

Agree with the above. -FlowsLikeBits

I think the problem has arisen with 2 things that have bem forgotten, the first, and most most vital thing forgotten, being the Lynchpin of all Protocols, Clarity. I have ammended both protocols with a Clarity Minimum, which until now I have over-looked. With that now instilled it addresses the problem of power. Alchemical Protocols are just that, Protocols, spells, but not spells. With greater essence, and progression in the life of an alchemical comes the gaining of clarity, with that clarity comes the logical thinking of the Great Maker. Remember, while a high clarity Alchemical will have no qualms with using torture to extract information, if that is the most efficent option, they wont take joy from it. Now, apply this to these protocols. These were harnessed for similar but different uses in Autochthon, let us Take Essence Over-Spike Method as the prime example. While in the confines of Autochthonia, the alchemical weaver will use the protocol to subdue rogue machine spirits, automata, and Alchemicals. Now, said weaver enters creation and applys the same Protocol to Flesh and Blood exalts, the result is not the same, but equally debilitating. Now ponder this, does the Weaver know the altered effects of their protocol? if not, then they must study it. If the use is, say in the middle of the Locust Crusade, where the effects are known, with the high clarity to use the protocol, it would be used as an ultimatum, or as a manner to subdue an opponent while their capabilities are now entirely castrated.
To that end if an Alchemical exalt wishes to make use of this protocol, are they using it for the right reasons?
As a story teller you must get their reasoning for using this protocol, Clarity 7 means they are a being of Logic and Efficency, to use those motes for the sake of seeing what it does is reason enough to tell them no.

To Summarise: Changes have been made, Essence Over-Spike Method has had an upped mote cost, wording has been corrected, and both protocols now have the necessary applied Clarity requirements. The clarity is now the "measuring stick" to which you must govern the use of the protocol.

I apologise for not making my thinking on the use of these protocols clear, and for forgetting the necessary Clarity requirements, I hope this helps make it clear - ArabianNinja

ArabianNinja, I've got to say, I'm still not convinced. The fundamental problems with the spell haven't been addressed, there's merely a big sticker on it that says "Don't use unless the player can stunt it as something within the bounds of clarity". At some level, upping mote cost doesn't really make anything more powerful - there's a ceiling out there that says "This is too powerful for X level of sorcery or protocol, and that's that". For example, it's possible to write a spell called "I win!" that, when cast, allows the character to win Exalted. It's Celestial level, costs the character's entire pool of essence, and can only be used when in dire need. It's still unbalanced. Upping the cost to 2 times the character's essence pool doesn't even make it balanced, even though most Exalts could therefore never cast it. (The exceptions being those with Essence-containing gems, Water-Spider Bite, or those with lots of Essence-Augmentation charms). Honestly, I wouldn't even put that effect into Adamant Circle Sorcery - it's just too broad, and too unstoppable. As I once said when describing Madwand/Anti-parryable effects, I'll say again - perhaps it's time to re-imagine the effect, from the ground up, and see what comes of it. Maybe an Essence-spike, when applied to beings of Creation, resonates oddly with them, converting Terrestrial Exalt's favored element into an Autochtonian element, and giving them a surcharge on charms no longer in their favored element. Perhaps it lights the anima banner of Celestials up like christmas as their internal anti-primordial failsafes kick in, ensuring that their essence and shards are untouchable by Primordial power. Heck - there's even a theory out there that says if a shard (idea created by Autocthon) gets a shut-off message from him (or his kind), it actually does shut down - a bit. Perhaps it reduces their effective Essence rating for the purposes of charm effects by 1, like Soul-Shaper Form, only in reverse. You can still access all of your high-essence charms, it's just that things relying on "Roll your (Essence) in dice" are slightly less effective. There's tons of ways to envision such a spike that don't require a big sledgehammer called "I break the target, in many ways". -- GreenLantern, hopefully sounding constructive, not like an ass

A fair point, theres more than one way to skin a cat, but this is meerly my way. Now, I seem to be stuck in the mindset that actions need to be offset by good roleplaying, in my mind, an Alchemical using this protocol is using it in the ideal of causing its target to submit. The effect may be different, but the intent is the same. I will add one more ammendment however, because the Protocol is meant to be Immediate use/effect in Autochthon, and not so in Creation, that while it is cast in Creation, the motes are committed by the caster, and it can be ended prematurely if the caster de-commits the 40 motes. While this isnt an entirely balancing factor, in your eyes at least, I am simply taking an approach from Autochthon coming to Creation, this Protocol is meant simply to be used in Autochthon, the addition of effects in Creation is necessary to show that there are differences between the twwo realms.
To KO an automata/machinespirit/alchemical in Autochthonia, the intent is to drag them off and reprogram them. Using it in Creation on an Artifact monkey is to Knock them out with the bashing damage, and drag them off for interrogation, or incarceration. Or nerf their ability to hurl essence charged bolts sufficently to gain submission.
Remember, with alchemical ways comes alchemical thinking, to use the protocol for spite is a sign of dissonance, which will end up with the caster with a personality over-ride spike in their face. A Deus Ex Machina if you will. - ArabianNinja

But it's not about how you use it. The simple fact of the matter is that it's not something an Essence 4 sorcery-type effect should be able to generate. No amount of warning labels or "this is why the spell was created" get around that fact. I mean, I could easily have an Essence 2 swordsman create a charm that "allows him to perfectly disarm his opponent, swinging his weapon in wide arc in a strike so violent that it rips the opponent's weapon from their hands, driving it through their chests as it sails (User's Essence * 100) yards away. In the process, the opponent takes 10 unsoakable lethal damage." The charm is intended to disarm opponents while damaging them, removing their weapon. It was developed by the re-incarnation of the greatest swordsman ever. That doesn't make it fair, nor reasonable in comparison to other effects obtainable at a similar power level. Even the Autocthonian effect is a bit much, when you realize that with it, an Essence 8 patropolis can shut down an Essence 7 one, without a roll. It's a bit much when you figure that warring Autocthonian nation-states would use it in wars against each other, as obviously the opposing Alchemicals don't understand the true vision of Autocthon. If you really wanted to show that the thing affects Creation differently, just don't have it work. I mean, metaphysically, Creation's Exalts and beings are different than Autocthonia's, and could easily be so different as to ignore this protocol. There are many ways to interpret difference, add color and effect, and not make an effect that's entirely more powerful than other effects obtainable at a similar level of development. Honestly, if I didn't know better, I'd say you were trying to push this across for your PC in a game, and was (are?) hoping that the wiki would embrace it, giving you a reason to convince your ST it was fair. But it's not. Show me other Celestial or God-Machine effects that are this dang powerful, and generally useful. In Autocthonia it's an automatic "I win" button, and in Creation, it's dang near it. Hell, it's quite common to find a Dawn Caste with 10+ points of attuned artifact - this would simply knock him unconsious in one blow. And you know what? That's ok. Because Swarm of Obsidian Butterflies could probably knock him down. And you know what else? There's probably spell out there to disarm him. And there might even be a spell to temporarily reduce his attributes. Almost certainly, there's a spell to increase charm cost. But you know what? It's not one spell. These effects, stacked, require multiple rounds of casting, multiple willpower, multiple rounds of vulnerability, and ways to resist each individual step of the process. Taking it one step further, making a spell or protocol this power sets precedent, and lets the cat out of the bag. If this is an acceptable power level for such a protocol, your enemy could (in theory) develop an equally nasty spell or protocol to use on you - that is the point of fairness after all. And then what happens? The game is reduced to your join-battle rolls, seeing who starts casting first, because whoever ends casting first wins. -- GreenLantern

Firstly, the God-Machine Weaving Engine is Essence 5 to buy. An Essence 8 Patropolis would be less inclined to use the protocol against a lesser due to the fact it would cause too many vital functions to cease, not only in the City, but for the Great Maker himself. As for the Stacked effects, a lot of them are ifs and maybes, they dont all work at once immediately. The bashing damage is soakable vs natural soak, the stat loss is possible but not definte, and permanent loss is not somthing that happend easily. Also, I have no intent to use this on a character currently, not as yet. As for ST approval, I checked the original version of the protocol against my current Story teller and he seemed perfectly okay with it. Again, as for the level of power, Rune of singular hate is a Spell Circle higher than this protocol (God-machine is 2.5), and the effects are permanent, and a chance of definite death. This protocol has the chance of death, the chance of permanent stat loss, and a very real need for the target to stop doing pretty much anything lest they do kill themselves or otherwise. This akin to the charm Easily Accepted Proposition Stance, "Come quietly, or else.", or more thematically, "Resistance if Futile." However if you feel the need to give it a more resistance appeal to it, apply the opposed Willpower+Essence rolls to all targets, regardless of Essence. - ArabianNinja, Who really need to get over his stubborn ways but is far too much enjoying the active discussion.

First off, I'm glad your enjoying it, though I'm not 100% what we're doing is discussion - more like beating our heads on a wall, or shouting in an empty forest. Regardless, I'm a glutton, so here goes. I'll comment by sentence, I believe.

• Sentence 1: Yes, it is. Yet it's directly corresponding to Celestial level, as noted by the many crossover spells. This indicates protocols are weaker than sorcery, not stronger.
• 2: Who cares if he's so inclined? Warning labels do not fairness nor accurate power levels make. A crazy or mind-controlled Alchemical is an alchemical nonetheless. Especially when you consider the warring nature of the nation-states.
• 3: Depending on what you're saying, yes, they all do take effect immediately. More precisely, they require only one casting sequence to activate, freeing the caster up to, say, not die. The list of effects you've got here should be 4+ protocols or spells, requring 8+ rounds of standing there and going "Look at me, I'm peeing on your christmas! Please kill me before all these effects work at once!"
• 4: Oooh. Natural soak. That's usually less than 5. We'll say four. Does it matter? Not really, if the damage is from the caster, not environmental (you never specify). If it's environmental, yes, it can be soaked to zero if you have only one good artifact on you, or a few small ones. That actually makes the protocol only 95% as crazy as it seems right now. If it's not environmental, then the minimum ping is 5 dice anyway, so it's kind of moot about soak.
• 4.2: As for the stat loss being possible and not definite, how is that, exactly? You mean it's their choice to spend 10m or more in a round? Sure it is. Explain that to the guy who just had his christmas peed on by the obvious sorceror over there. He tries to activate one, maybe two charms, and he's already over 10m per round. Think he can just choose not to activate charms? Oh, that's a great idea - why not just stab yourself in the eyes? I mean, that's what's going to happen to you in Exalted if you don't have a charm-based defense ready. And heck, while you're at it, take a damage. Just because.
• 5: Good. Don't use it with characters. It's so out of whack it's crazy.
• 6: Not to bash your ST, but his seeming ok with it doesn't do much for me. I've found few on the wiki who are as rigorous about clarity and balance as I, and I've met just as few in the real world. My guess is that your ST prefers color, story, and theme to crunch (a noble thing!), as you seem to, based on your insistence that thematics and story reasons make something ok. At the end of the day though, the crunch is broken, and as the second circle demon of crunch, it's my job to deal with it.
• 7: Rune of Singular Hate. I knew it was coming. There are a lot of parallels, but you're missing the huge thing - RoSH isn't a "You'll only use this spell on enemies you really hate, in last ditch situations" spell. It's a "and the crunch backs it up, as you're essentially pouring benzene on your character sheet. If this protocol had such powerful crunch behind it, I'd be more ok with it, but there isn't. Hence my claim that this spell has, as a requirement, a player-stunt to use. As long as you can rationalize to your ST how casting this is something logical, you're golden. And logic, thankfully, can be bent like wet pasta. Yes, this charm is similar to RoSH - that's the problem. RoSH is a one-time only spell that tears your character sheet in half, and this can be cast again in 3 hours or less, as a hobby.
• 9: Easily Accepted Proposition isn't a bad comparison, actually. It's at least semi-relevant. It lets you do dang-near anything, or does some damage to the opponent. EAPS is a powerful charm. Notably, however, it doesn't stop Exalts. You can win wars with it, deal with lots of weird situations, but really, against an Essence 5 opponent, it's not that big a deal. You've got to roll Int+Brawl against diff 5, as a Sidereal. You've got maybe a 50-50 chance, unless you combo it with the brawl TN reducer called ... umm... there isn't one. Nor is there a die adder. So you've got a max pool of 13 if you're tweaked heavily for that charm. Thus, if you succeed (and there's a solid chance you won't!), you won't have many successes over that diff of 5. Thus, you're really doing, say, 7 dice of Agg, soakable by Natural Soak (which, ironically, agg ignores). So you do maybe 3.5 Agg damage, but lose 12m, 1WP, and 1HL in the process. Net gain in your favor? You're trading 12m, 1WP for 2.5 of his health levels. IF you succeed on a diff 5 roll with your max pool of 13 if tweaked. (More likely than not 10). That's a fair trade, actually. On the other hand, with this protocol, once cast, the opponent is essentially neutered. No fight left, no salvation. Get that protocol off, and it's over. It's not that I think the effects are (individually) unreasonable, it's that the general rule of "is this balanced" is the following question: If this were added to the game, and one character had it, would the other characters need it to stay competetive? And the answer is yes. An Alchemical with this protocol is leaps and bounds ahead of his brethren in regards to Exalt-on-Exalt combat, which is the only type that matters. If he can cast this as his opponent rides towards him on the field of battle, that's it. Even EAPS of "And at dawn, my army crests the hill on a legion of horses, led by a formerly-dead Sidereal" gives the opponent a fairly good chance of winning. Against an Essence 5 opponent, the army can be safely ignored, and the Sidereal could be problematic. If this spell goes off though, he's screwed - even a mortal has a chance against an Exalt that this protocol has been cast on. And that's bad.
• 10: Ah, thematically, it's "Resistance is futile". But it's not. It's Exalted. There are dozens of ways to make "come quietly", but makign them force you to disattune your artifacts? Making them drop your attributes? Increase your charm costs? I was once yelled at by a good man named [Telgar] for making an artifact that looked like a smorgasboard of bonuses, rather than a cool device. This protocol looks like a smorgasboard of "and this is how I want to screw with my opponent so he can't even stand up against me", with a rationale tacked on. That's not cool, that's munchkin-esque.
• 11: Yes, a resistance roll would help greatly. But then you're essentially bringing an epic fight down to a single roll, and if you lose, it's over. Sure, there are things like Pattern-Spider Bite (or is it touch?) that if they land, you're screwed. Luckily, that's not till Essence 7 or so, and requires you to hit, which at Essence 7, is a whole new world of difficult and special. I'm not sure from your sentence if the opposed rolls you propose are vanilla Will+Essence, or Will+Essence with the caster getting a bonus 2-3 successes (As is noted in the spell description). If adding an opposed roll would make this fair (and it won't!), it should very much be vanilla, no caster-bonus. But it won't fix it, because the problem with the spell is that it's an I-win button, and that's not good. Drop the effect power, and then only requiring a roll for higher essence beings isn't a problem.
• 12: Thanks for enjoying our time together. :)

- GreenLantern

I think the Head bashing against wall was more or less the nail on the head, so-to-speak. And quite frankly this is getting us no-where, lets try and reach and amicable end. So lets look at this as a break down of the effects and see where we can reach an agreement shall we? I like the multitude of effects, this for all intents is meant to be debilitating, an Essence Virus a friend called it I think. So lets take it from the top.

• Duration: The more essence you got the longer it lasts, hearhstones/manses augment this, so duration isn't too much of an issue, just stating it for the sake of it.

• Immediate effects: The effects that take place as soon as the protocol is cast: Bashing damage sustained from attuned artifacts, loss of anima powers.
  • Bashing from Artifacts: can be soaked with natural soak. Possible changes: Weilder can reflexivly drop any weapons to prevent damage. or bashing damage sustained only from the highest attuned item. (having lvl 4 armour, and a lvl 3 weapon, will take 4 levels of damage first, and if they remove the armour they recive 3 from weapon, assuming they havent already gotten rid of it), or combination there of.
  • Loss of anima powers: Pretty much as is, i see no reason to change.

• Latent Effects: Effects that occur after the protocol has been cast once paramaters are met: Anima Flare, increased essence expenditure, lethal damage for spending, stat loss.
  • Anima flare: possible idea, full anima flare remains active at all times instead of any mote spending = full flare, since its more or less the same as is, but no-one really has made complaints, just making a suggestion anyway.
  • 1d10 increase to all essence expenditures. Admittedly this was always decidedly dicey (no pun intended), so suggest what you will
  • Damage for mote spending: bashing instead of lethal perhaps? or increased to 15+ mote expenditure causes damage
  • Stat loss: Increase to 15+ mote expeinditure to cause roll for stat loss.
  • Alternative: No adding of mote cost, and make the damage for mote spending and stat loss 6-7+ motes to cause the effect to occur, thus allowing exalts to use their cheap reflexive without too much fear, but anything higher, such as stacking mote cost for dice adders and the like to be a problem.

• Extra Factors: Committed motes, and resitance rolls. Fine as is I believe, possible lowering of mote cost for spell to 30 if the effects are reduced too significantly.

I look forward to your suggestions. I should mention I have a poor habit of defending ideas to the death, but offering viable agreeable alternatives is a good way to end a lengthty head vs wall session. But admittedly, I am a little too fond of this idea. As such modding the effects I'll likely agree to, but removing them is not an option I'd like to take. - ArabianNinja

Arabian - Fabulous. Simply fabulous. I think we can actually do something here, I hope. Also - the term "Essence Virus" pleases me as well. Here goes:

• Duration: I'm fine with the duration, as Sorcery can easily be long-lasting. It was the one-shot kill of it that was too much.

• Immediate effects: The effects that take place as soon as the protocol is cast: Bashing damage sustained from attuned artifacts, loss of anima powers.
  • Bashing from Artifacts: I like the change to "highest ranked artifact" a lot, but am concerned about the poor guy with an artifact 5 sword he'll need to fight you. Still, at only bashing, and soaked with natural, I can deal with it. One question remains: Does this have Essence-ping on it, or is it environmental? My guess is environmental, as even if the caster dies, the damage continues.
  • Loss of anima powers: Pretty much as is, i see no reason to change. Ok, I'll take this as a concession.

• Latent Effects: This is where the big boys lie. This might hurt a bit more than the previous categories.
  • Anima flare: Full-flare: A good idea. Simple is better, and there's no reason to complicate it. Perhaps as another option, simply note that all motes are considered peripheral? Additionally, every expenditure could count as double for the purposes of banner and flare. After all, your essence is leaking like a sieve.
  • 1d10 increase to all essence expenditures. Agreed, this is one of the real biggies. Suggestions include:
    • 1d10 to the first expenditure in a turn. Simple, not as catastrophic, but still quite limiting.
    • Increase all expenditures by (Caster's Essence - Target's Essence) motes.
    • Increase all expenditures by 2 motes.
    • The first time you spend motes in a turn, there is a 1m surcharge. Each additional charm activation increases this surcharge by 1m.
    • You must pay a surcharge of (Target's Essence) motes the first time you spend motes in a given turn.

In theory, I'd take any of those. All will still slow an Exalt down heavily, but aren't the end of the world.

• • Damage for mote spending: How about some more ideas, each of which I'd be willing to take:
    • Take (Target's Essence) dice of unsoakable bashing damage every time you activate a combo.
    • Every time you activate a charm that costs more than 4m to activate (before any surcharge) take one die of unsoakable lethal damage.
    • Every time you activate a non-instant duration charm, you take (Essence) dice of lethal damage, soakable by natural soak. Ping included.
    • At the end of every turn, take one die of unsoakable lethal damage for every charm activation past the first.

Any of those work for you?

• • Stat loss: I like the minimum of 15m thing - if it's pre-surcharge. That way you can't unload big combos, but a sequence of little guys still gets through.

• Extra Factors: Honestly, I don't think the caster needs to commit motes, as long as the duration is short enough. Regaining 30+ motes is tough for anyone, so if you're willing to cut the duration a bit (not much, just a tad!), you wouldn't even need to commit them. As for the resistance rolls, I'd really like something so that higher essence beings are pretty resistant to this - screwing with the Essence of stronger beings should be a pain. I'd suggest perhaps opposed (Essence) rolls for anyone of greater-than-or-equal to Essence. I'm also thinking that reducing cost to 35m is at least a start, and can be convinced to go lower if you're happy with some of the options above.

Back at you! -- GreenLantern

Okay, so -

• Duration: Fine as is

• Immediate effects:
  • Bashing from Artifacts: Highest level of artifact currently attuned, and they have an Artifact 5 sword, they should have a decent MA to back it up, but if they rely on a melee tree, well, thats the kicker isnt it? Damage is ennvironmental, no ping to speak of, its not an attack per-se.
  • Loss of anima powers: Fine as is

• Latent Effects:
  • Anima flare: Lets Stick with simple, their Anima Banner remains at full flare for the duration, hows that?
  • Mote increase: Lets go with 1d10 to the first expenditure in a turn. Maybe an additional 1 mote for every after.
  • Damage for mote spending: Lets go with Spend 5+ motes (before surcharge) causes 1 unsoakble lethal.
  • Stat loss: I'd like to go with 8+ motes if its pre-surcharge, remember, the loss is temporary after all, unless you are unfortunate to keep rolling the same number on the above chart...

• Extra Factors: Okay, so lets go with 35 motes, no commitment, and resistance rolls are inteneded to be opposed Willpower + Essence vs equal or higher beings. How does that sit?

-ArabianNinja

Honeslty, that's still insane. It's still pretty much a crippling effect that makes PoaC look nice. Messing with charm costs does horrible, horrible things to the system. I'd make it require an attack roll, like most sorcery does. I mean, look at Essence Inversion for gawd-sake. -FlowsLikeBits

Not to interrupt the God-Machine Protocol workings, but how was the spell above it? I don't want to sh*t up the thread.. Oh, and by-the-by, I like the idea of this spell with terrible consequences to your Exalted soul, possibly to your connection to the Exaltation itself, a miscommunication of sorts. Temporary as it might be.. Its great. =) The doomness is astronomical; no hiding from anybody, you can't be safe and wait. As to the flare, I suggest something else; The anima flares because motes are leaking from you even when you are passive. Sleep is impossible or troubled by maddening nightmares. Essence-posession, when old memories cling to your Exaltation shard and claw at your mind, becomes a fearful reality. Perhaps random charm-type effects shooting off are possible as well, maybe even in place of surcharges. "Every turn essence (or X essence) is spent, another charm *must* shoot off of equal or lesser value." Not necessarily controlled effects, or beneficial ones. Hope I helped at all everyone, or at least provided a suitable short-circuit theme to inspire y'all. - Paincake Who in his last sentence channeled Johnny Five.

That was one I dea I had for the protocol oringally where the exalt would lose control of their own charms, but that became decidedly messy after a fashion. So I decided a different course of action. - ArabianNinja

Just leaving this message, I decided for the sake of it I'd edit my protocol with the negotiated values GreenLantern and I came up with. I do hate to see things go unfinished. - ArabianNinja