Difference between revisions of "FixTheSolarCharmTrees/ProtectionOfCelestialBliss"

Revision as of 02:28, 23 April 2005

Official Charm

Protection of Celestial Bliss</b>

<b>Cost: 7 motes, 1 Willpower

Duration: Special

Type: Reflexive

Min. Melee: 5

Min. Essence: 6

Prereqs: Heavenly Guardian Defense, Fivefold Bulwark Stance

Grants a number of hanging, reflexively-available perfect parries (as HGD) equal to users' Melee ability. Castebook: Dawn, page 74.

Grandmasta's version

As the official version, except:

Min. Essence: 4

Xarak's version

As the official version, except:

Type: Simple

Min. Essence: 4

Vote Tally

Official version

1. FlowsLikeBits

Grandmasta's version

Nobody anymore! o_O

Xarak's version

1. Xarak
2. Grandmasta

Comments

I WIN! ONE TO NOTHING!

Seriously, though, for the effect and the seven motes committed, Essence 6 seems completely insane. ~ G

I don't know...it's at least 5 HGD's for only slightly more essence than HGD itself. OK it's committed, but in the middle of a Celestial-level combat this would save you a load of motes, and it's even reflexive so there's no drawback. If you made it Essence 4 I'd say make it Simple too, so there's at least some reason to still consider HGD. I agree that Essence 6 seems too high, but I'm wary of anything that makes perfect defences too easy to get in bulk. -- Xarak

You know what? You're probably right. ~ G

Honestly, 4 I think is to low. Actually, I usually consider this to be one of the few castebook charms that, well wasn't incredibly weak. I don't want to see the progression go up TO quickly. Since HGD is Essence 3, you could make an argument for making it Essence 5, but that seems to low. I'm not sure if this is the sort of thing that exalts would get in their first 100 years. -FlowsLikeBits

The next logical Charm in this tree is "scene-long perfect parry", at which point the only successful attack against the character consists of "deprive him of all weapons". -- BillGarrett

There's no particular reason such a Charm has to be possible- but even if it were, it's still possible to make attacks which are not parryable, or do damage passively (Heart-Stopping Mien, for instance). I'd say that such a Charm does *not* exist (perhaps, 'cannot exist'), because if it did, the Usurpation basically wouldn't have worked. - Arafelis

I think the next thing would be: A scene length charm that lets you HGD whenever you want for a cost. I think there a couple other ways the tree could go, without going that far. A version could give you more per invocation and let the pool be refilled reflexivly and not count as charm use, for instance. I'm not sure I buy that argument for 'cannot exists'. You could take the POV that, at the time of Upsurpation the Primordial war was long over, and Creation was pretty much peaceful. There doesn't seem to be that much reason for most Solars to have incredibly high level combat abilities. I imagine special tactics were needed to take down those who did, but even assuming all Dawn Caste, that's still only 20%(at best). I agree that a scene length perfect defence probably shouldn't exits. A scene lenght perfect defence against parryable attacks seems vaguely possible, but even that is streching it. (That would probably be in the essence 8-9 catagory). -FlowsLikeBits

Then let me amend this to "the LAST logical Charm..." as those are some good suggestions. The scene-long perfect defense is probably in the neighborhood of Essence 9, but I see no reason to disallow it categorically (nobody in MY game will ever have it and still remain a playable character, so what's the harm?). And yeah, there are other ways around the attack. But I don't buy "Creation was peaceful, they wouldn't have it". If you have four millennia of life and unlimited power, you may as well be learning more combat Charms. It's not like you've got much else to spend XP on aside from diversions, and fighting would certainly have been a diversion many Dawns enjoyed. -- BillGarrett (who may end up writing a rough outline of "plan to kill Invincible Sword Princess" during the Usurpation)

I could be wrong, but when I think "Essence 9 parry," I don't think "scenelong perfect defense." I think "Parry light," or "Parry social change." My impression of the power curve puts Essence 9 combat-focused Solars as being invested of a level of puissance to the point of almost complete inapproachability; a scenelong perfect parry, to be honest, is something I'd probably put at Essence 6-7, maybe 8 at the absolute tops.

By the way, as far as how to KILL a Solar with this level of power, well...you basically have to stop talking about ways to defeat his Charms and start talking about ways to restrict his access to his Essence pool. Artifacts, Sorcery, etc...don't try to defeat his Charms; try to prevent him from using them in the first place. My $0.02. ~ G

I just figured out how the Invincible Sword Princess' fell. All the DBs have to do is wait. DB host spends a bunch of essence and then stands near the solar. 100 Ping damage from Anima banners later...Jaelra

Except that the Solar has Hardness 1 and is suddenly unaffected by them all. - Kraken And to actually answer for the Fix, having played in a game that featured hanging defences like this, it is actually a very powerful effect (and the hanging is generally more useful that the number), and that ess 5 is possibly appropriate, with an ess 4 charm that more like bulkwark stance inbetween. The duration of 'Special' in the original is actually a nice limitation that stops it being activated mid-combat, without pausing in one's offence.