SolarDodge/Madwand
Dance with Disaster Method</B>
<B>Cost:3 motes + 1 Willpower Duration: One scene Type: Reflexive Minimum Dodge: 2 Minimum Essence: 2 Prerequisite Charms: Reed in the Wind
There are those who delight in battle. They know that each missed blow is a tiny moment more that they continue to survive, an opportunity to gain the upper hand against one's enemies. With this charm, a Solar enters a dance of sorts with his enemy, each near miss becoming an opportunity to recognize how close to the edge of disaster the Exalt came... and yet still survives to fight on.
While this charm is active, the Exalt gains his permanent Essence in motes for each attack he successfully dodges. This Charm does not activate against attacks not truly intended to harm the Solar.
(This is my Solar translation of Joy in Adversity Stance from the VBoS martial art. Unlike Joy in Adversity, it only works on a successful dodge. Also, there's less rolling involved.)
Continuance of Life Method</B>
<B>Cost:3 motes Duration: Instant Type: Reflexive Minimum Dodge: 4 Minimum Essence: 3 Prerequisite Charms: Dance with Disaster Method, Shadow Over Water
Some attacks a Solar may face are so terrible in their power that when they miss, the Exalt cannot but praise his luck and the skill the Unconquered Sun has given him. When such an attack is dodged, activating this charm allows the Exalt to contemplate his continued survival for a brief moment. For the Solar, the world seems to freeze, and all that exists is his steady breath and the knowledge that he yet lives. Then, the battle continues.
Anytime the Solar successfully dodges an attack that received no less than (the Solar's Essence or 5, whichever is greater) successes, he may activate this Charm and gain a temporary point of Willpower, up to his normal maximum. This Charm may not be activated against attacks not truly intended to harm the Solar.
(This is my translation of a Solar Brawl charm over to the Dodge tree, Dancing with Strife Technique. Unlike that charm, this one only works on a successful dodge. I think it makes more sense here than under Brawl.)
Synchrony of Fluttering Leaves</B>
<B>Cost:1 mote Duration: Instant Type: Reflexive Minimum Dodge: 4 Minimum Essence: 3 Prerequisite Charms: Shadow Over Water
As a single leaf flutters in the wind, so may it's neighbors. With this Charm, the Exalt may share the benefits of a dodge action with any willing, visible target. By invoking this Charm multiple times, up to Essence additional targets may be affected by a single dodge action. The Solar makes a single dodge roll for all partictipants. If invoked simultanesouly with an instant-duration Dodge Charm, this Charm ignores the one-charm-per-turn rule without requiring a combo.
Ever-Vigilant Sentinel Stance</B>
<B>Cost:None Duration: Permanent Type: Special Minimum Dodge: 5 Minimum Essence: 3 Prerequisite Charms: Flow Like Blood
A Solar with this Charm is never unprepared for battle. This Charm enhances the Exalt's already-considerable ability to avoid the attacks of his enemies. Flow Like Blood is upgraded to become a reflexive Charm. In addition, the character may add one mote to the invocation cost of any reflexive Dodge Charm in order to activate it in response to an attack she did not anticipate.
(Inspired by the 2nd Edition Ride Charm, Worthy Mount Technique)
Comments
I'm convinced that if Martial Arts can do it, there's probably a Solar charm that can do it, too. Comments? -Madwand
- I've got to say I totally agree. I'm hugely of the belief that if it can be done by an MA charm (no matter the type of MA), it can be done (or done better!) by a Solar charm. It's one of the reasons I don't think MA is overpowered - I just think people don't use things like the above often enough. Now then, as to an interaction of these two charms that I think might need some discussing. Let's start with
- Dance with Disaster Method + Seven Shadows Evasion: Once you're at Ess 6 or higher, you can now Perfect Dodge, without concern for motes. You dodge, you get them back. Poofo. Simple. Admittedly, you're awesome at Essence 6. I just want to make sure it means that once you've got maybe 6 dodge charms, and Essence 6, you can auto perfect dodge any attack you want.
- Continuance of Life Method + Dance with Disaster Method: Now, I'm guessing these two were meant to work together, but I figured I'd make it explicit for anyone else out there. Throw up the mote-gainer for 1WP. Dodge an attack. The mote-gainer kicks in, and you gain enough motes to pay for the WP maker. Make some WP. Worried that wasting your charm action on Continuance of Life Method will hamper your defenses? Well, throw out a combo! As long as you dodge once per turn, you can automatically pay for your own combo, because your dodge->motes->WP->combofuel. Since there's no uncertainty about the motes gained, and the min Ess requirement for the Continuance charm is Ess 3, you're guaranteed to make enough fuel each time to make some WP, to make a combo, and so on. By Ess 4, you're actually gaining motes, which is awesome, making you a fountain of motes and WP. More to the worry, that means if you're fighting an opponent, no matter how lethal, without undodgeable attacks, he's got problems. As you'll be getting 'free' combo activations and charm activations the entire fight.
- You know what's funnier though? I think that those are both perfectly reasonable for Solars. Go Solars! - GregLink
I dunno. I think they're reasonable, but only once you get to around essence 6 or so. That's why I don't object too much to the first one (although it working with automatic (non-rolled) defenses has always seemed a bit screwy for me, the MA version included) but the ability to do the 2nd is unpleasantly brokenseeming at essence 4.
More comments - The pre-reqs for the first seem kinda low. It's scenelong, costs ONLY one willpower (so no motes committed) and yet is purchasable straight off the first dodge charm? Do you -really- think it should go there, or are you just using the (in my opinion broken and way under-requisited) martial art as a comparison? I suggest you think about what this should cost as a solar effect, not as a martial art effect. Ignore the MA, think what you'd cost it as without, and see if it's the same.
--Darloth
I had two points of comparison: the original charms mentioned above, and the Endurance tree Essence- and Willpower-regaining charms. These charms have advantages and disadvantages over those charms, either may be better for certain builds. The requirements and prerequisites are higher, so I believe these charms are balanced in that respect. There is definitely room for debate on what the proper cost for Dance with Disaster Method should be. I changed it from the Joy in Adversity cost because 1) I think powerful Solar scene-length charms should have a Willpower cost and 2) Solar essence-regaining charms should have a very low essence cost (as Essence-Gathering Temper demonstrates). Nevertheless, going back to the 5-mote cost may be better, or adding a 1- or 2- mote cost to the charm might improve it. Thoughts? -Madwand
Keep the willpower, add a mote cost. I'd say 3-4 if you still want to have it at this level. It's a powerful effect. A very powerful effect... How would you cost a scene-long version of Essence Gathering Temper? (I'm basing my motecost on the increase of Dipping Swallow Defense, 2m, increasing to 5m1w for Flow Like Blood, if you're interested)
-- Darloth
- You could add a mote surcharge. A more wacky approach may to be add the caveat "The effects of Dance with Disaster will end the first time the solar tries to dodge an attack and fails." -Ambisinister
- Hey Dar, does that first charm have your seal of approval?.. if so.. I'm so taking it ;) It definitely sounds good to me.. even if you do add a mote cost as well.. I'd use it.. me and Darloth were talking about solars not having any really safe way of getting essence back without the whole soak/EGT/twilight anima thing going on... which isn't great when you're a dawn caste :) FluffySquirrel
- Nope, not yet. It's too low down the tree for the effect it gives, and is rather too low-prereqed, and costs not enough. Maybe if it came off Shadow Over Water, was more like 4/3 and cost 4m and 1w... I may be erring in the other direction here, but mote-regen effects are rare and powerful, usually with downsides or problems regarding usage. Excepting the one in VBoS of course, and, well, you know what I did with VBoS...
-- Darloth
- Nope, not yet. It's too low down the tree for the effect it gives, and is rather too low-prereqed, and costs not enough. Maybe if it came off Shadow Over Water, was more like 4/3 and cost 4m and 1w... I may be erring in the other direction here, but mote-regen effects are rare and powerful, usually with downsides or problems regarding usage. Excepting the one in VBoS of course, and, well, you know what I did with VBoS...
((Charms which were here have been moved to SolarDodge/Darloth , since they're complete enough for use, and present a different power scale.))
Wow! These charms certainly began quite a bit of controversy. After hearing everyone's comments, I've added a 3-mote cost to "Dance with Disaster Method". Darloth's modifications are probably appropriate for a game that wants to make essence- and willpower-regaining charms much rarer, especially games that have house-ruled Joy in Adversity Stance and Dancing with Strife Technique to be less powerful than they are by canon. I feel the charms as I have created them originally are appropriate for a game that accepts Joy in Adversity Stance and Dancing with Strife Technique as they are. A few comments on Darloth's changes: Laughing at Peril Practice (nice name, btw!) is a bit of a speed-bump charm. At Essence 2, it only nets 1 additional mote! Compare this to EGT which you would expect to net at least 5 motes, and potentially much more. Also, EGT has much (much!) lower prerequisites. For both Dance with Disaster Method and Continuance of Life Method, I note that you added several more conditions under which those charms might be useful. I don't like doing this with Solar charms -- wierd "gotchas!" seem like more of a Lunar charm thing. Also, I feel I already de-powered those charms significantly enough from their original form when I specified they could only be invoked on a successful dodge. As it is, most Exalts are going to be better off ignoring these three modified charms and just going for the orignals in the VBoS and Brawl trees. I also considered raising the success threshold on attacks to Essence x 2 for Continuance of Life Method (for the sake of simplicity), but felt that at higher Essence levels, the threshold would get rather ridiculous -- I want people to actually be able to use the charm, after all. -Madwand
Assuming essence 4, I see 8-success attacks thrown around pretty regularly. I can't imagine that at essence 7 (where sidereal martial arts can throw nasty 40 success attacks at you) you're going to have trouble seeing 14s... If anything, it's the low essence ranges where it will be harder. A 5 success attack can still be quite brutal to an essence 3 exalt, but doesn't quite manage the threshold. By the time they get to essence 4, most vaguely-combat focussed exalted can usually shrug off 8-sux attacks. And if they're not combat focussed, no reason for this charm really. That makes it get better as essence increases, which seems to fit.
-- Darloth
So let me get this straight. I can now spend 9m, 1WP, and have everyone in my circle get Flow Like Blood up? And then, when the massive area-effect of death goes off, I can burn 10m, and Seven Shadows Evasion for everyone? I don't know if that's kosher. I mean, yes, it's powerful, which is the Solar schtick, but at the same time, it kindof narfs on the Terrestrial schtick, what with the exact same mechanic you see used through terrestrial charms. Is there a better, more "in-schtick" way to get the effect you want? -- GregLink
- Yes, these things are what the Charm lets you do. I haven't read Terrestrial Charms (in the interest of being surprised when my ST throws a few at our circle), so I'm not sure to what extent I may or may not be "narfing" on DBs. The charm is designed for a Dodge-focused Solar that wants to protect his allies, and also perhaps not have his horse cut out from under him immediately upon entering combat. My questions are the same as yours: Is the Charm too powerful? Is the mechanic appropriate? If you feel the answer to these questions is "no", I would love to hear alternate suggestions. One possibility is splitting the Charm into two permanent Charms, gruadually building up the power to protect one's allies. I'm not sure that's necessary, though. - Madwand
It's the permanancy and 'upgrade anything, cheaply' which makes it seem overpowered to me. I'm against this sort of thing, it's too good for solar group-aid, and probably too good even for DB group-aid. I favour the separate charm approach for dodging/defending for others, but that's only my opinion. Maybe if you added a willpower cost (just a flat 1wp) to use another charm on any number of other people, it would seem appropriate. Also, spreading scenelongs seems a little bit much anyway, but I don't know. If you upcosted it a bit (maybe 3m per target, committed?) it might also be able to fit. Those are my suggestions, hope you can find some use out of them. It's hard to explain exactly WHY I think this is too much, but there you go.
-- Darloth
- Well, I can explain it pretty easily. It's because this way, if you assume that if this charm is 'valid', then what happens when there's a melee equivalent? And then a resistance equivalent? Suddenly, instead of a group of Solars, who are, in fact, each awesome, in one round, you see each 'specialist' throw up the 'group effect', so everyone's got FFBS, FLB, and maybe one of the scene-long resistance charms. More importantly, they've saved a ton of motes, and even yet more important, a ton of time. They did, reflexively, without a combo, what would normally take each of them 3 rounds. If you'd like to read more on how this is ridonkulus, someone else on the Wiki did it as part of a "protocol" discussion. I can't find it now, but it essentially means that you all get an 'effective' number of extra charm actions per turn equal to the number of people in your circle, because normal combo rules don't apply, and thus you can get 5 scene-longs up in one instant. As for the mechanic, yes, this is exactly the mechanic found in about 20+ percent of all DB charms, which allows you to spread them over your compatriots. Having said that, I try never to leave a discussion without a suggestion, rather than criticism. As such, I'll try proposing this: Instead of relying on charming everyone else, why not actually push them? Shout at them? Tell them to step out of the way. "Duck!" et cetera. I can see an old and wizened sifu standing on the sidelines, staring directly into his students eyes, and with ever-so-subtle twitches of his facial muscles, telling his student where the next attack will come from. And thus, I present:
Ally-Protecting Reaction</B>
<B>Cost:1m/3m Duration: Instant Type: Reflexive Minimum Dodge: 4 Minimum Essence: 4 Prerequisite Charms: (Whatever the 2nd dodge charm is. I forget)
With a deep understanding of not just how his body reacts, but the flow of combat itself, the Solar is able to discern incoming attacks and dangers not just directed at him, but directed at others on the field. If the Solar can some way get this knowledge to an ally or teammate, that person could easily get out of the way of incoming danger, saving themselves. When activated, the Solar must in some way be able to communicate the incoming danger to his ally. While simple enough by shouting, or even grabbing them and jerking them backward, it is difficult to warn someone on the other side of a battlefield full of screaming beast-men. This allows the Solar to provide a dodge action to the target, if the target is not already using a dodge action of their own. The Solar's dodge action can be a standard die-action, or generated by a reflexive charm, such as Reed in the Wind or Shadow Over Water. (Note that this therefore does not allow auto-dodges generated by things such as Flow Like Blood to apply, nor auto-dodges generated by devices like hearthstones). As it truly is the Solar's power getting his friend out of the way, bonuses to dodges from the Solar's specialties, artifacts, specialties, and the like apply. If the target is already using a dodge of their own, roll both dodges, and use the more favorable of the two results. When activated for 1m, this charm functions as written above. When activated for 3m, Ally-Protecting Reaction also provides the ability to activate a single reflexive dodge charm simultaneously, without the use of a combo. The full cost of this charm must be paid normally, and the bonus charm usage must be directed at the target of Ally-Protecting Reaction.
--GregLink
- I will note that there is precedent for the permanent "upgrade" charms. The inspiration for these charms comes from the White Wolf quarterly; it looks like charms such as these are going to become much more common in 2nd edition.
- GregLink's argument about a group of specialized Solars abusing Charms such as these is very valid, and so I have modified the Charm to prevent such abuse, taking some ideas from the very nice "Ally-Protecting Reaction". The Charm is now reflexive, and no longer allows scenelongs to be shared, although dodge actions may be, whatever their source. Perhaps a next-tier Charm would allow sharing of scenelongs. I do think Essence 3 is appropriate here (mostly because Worthy Mount Technique is Ess 3). The whole "snychronous" dodging idea is mostly just flavor, it will rarely be of benefit. Certainly it will make area-effect spells a little easier for the group to dodge, and I think that is appropriate. -Madwand
