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Except when they don't. Socialize and Bureaucracy Charms are nice for setting up webs that hem in enemies with giant infrastructures, or for setting up your own. They can bribe Celestial censors with the best of them, engage in Subtle Strikes (to borrow the Sidereal term for making a rival hurt for being your rival, possibly at his own hand), and do the old standby of kidnapping and blackmail. They are supremely skilled at the Abilities they choose to be skilled at, subtle and indirect or otherwise.

Which many Lunars are doing with the Thousand Streams River.

Let's put it in terms like this - a Lunar Chimera can have a Knack that essentially prevents it from dying when killed. If the body is left intact, it comes back to full life in about a week; with one fingernail fragment or a drop of blood, it may take as long as a year. That's quite close to being a ten dot Vissicitude power, and it's only at Essence 6.

It remains to be seen if Disciplines work that way, but it probably wouldn't be much better than the sort of defenses gods get (which means that they eat Willpower like candy and have flaws).

Then they run afoul of someone like Leviathan, who can ream them with Islebreaker and then have timeto eat breakfast. Blade of the Battle Maiden has a similar effect, but there's applicability denial for relatively cheap at Essence 4, as well as counterattacks.

Or, if you're feeling up to it, you can sit down and I can tell you how Ma-Ha-Suchi can MUDAMUDAMUDA away at someone with some extra limbs and a combo that gives him an effective 42+ attacks or so (as a conservative estimate). It's a bit more expensive, but by the published rules, a Parry Solar is toast against it.

Recockulous. Low Generation vampires can be outclassed by Claws of the Silver Moon on a huge spirit shape. With the Third Excellency on a yeddim, mammoth tyrannosaur or what have you, we're looking at 28L+, which would probably count as aggravated under the WoD's "Everything and its mother does aggravated damage, even fire hates you with supernatural potency" convention. The other way, Fortitude is probably far less of a proof against aggravated damage in Exalted terms, since it's quite serious.

All the same, someone that knows Snake Style to its end can hand it out with ease. Possibly using Claws of the Silver Moon, in a huge spirit shape. In concert with a perfect defense, nasty Fury effects, and Blade of the Battle Maiden. Poisson Resistance

Fortitude 10, which the only Ante we saw had, allows Antes to shrug off Soulbreaker-equivalents to the face, at minimum and would probably count as Perfect.

The 10s are insanely good. Remember, it was a god-slaying solar laser beam that did him in, not India being carpet-nuked.

Up to crazy archmage spheres and Antediluvians and their equivalents, though, Exalts quite handily wipe the floor, I agree.

I'd tone up the power of supernaturals a bit so it's a tad higher actually-it makes life in the WoD slightly less of a cakewalk, as decently high power supernaturals are very rare, and if you can win against a 4th gen with a 100XP character you can take over the world in a few hours after a couple of sessions.

No ideas how, but I don't think keeping supernaturals as weak as they are in canon would be a good idea.

--One-Ray Angle

Underworld Hearthstones don't work in Creation but nothing has said Creation (or Yu Shan) based Hearthstones cease to work even in Pure Chaos or Autochthonia and so on.

Resonance gains (in 1st ed) were broken up into two types. The first type which i call "general crimes" included stuff like taking a not-dead lover or acknowledging your mortal name. The second was basically "Your Deathlord gets to dick with you because he can". The second type wouldn't exist because Deathlords don't exist (or DO they, da DA DUM!). As a note, any Resonance purging is certain to lower the Shroud rating. In fact the very presence of a high Essence Abyssal probably lowers the Shroud rating.

Certainly and the KoTE could escort them via the various methods they have. But Dragonblooded can not learn supernatural powers of other beings. I suppose there could be a Celestial Martial Art "Gate of Infinity" style or something that could punch holes in the Gauntlet or Shroud... but creating it would be beyond the Dragonbloodeds ability. But yes, nothing is stoping a Terrestrial Exalt from social fuing a local with Umbral access to take him across to the otherside.

In 1st edition it could burn them as a reflexive action, but not reflexively. In second edition it just makes all their attacks much more potent versus Creatures of Darkness.

In this interpretation such things would just be shaping attacks designed as disasters or behemoths (ie Ring or Sword attacks). Who is doing the attacking? Good question.

Any spirit who doesn't directly serve Gaia. Weaver spirits, for example.

Likely anyone with the equivalent of All Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight can see across the Gauntlet/Shroud in their immediate area. A Solar with Spirit Detecting Glance up likely can also see across the barriers, as can Immaculate Monks using Spirit Walking and those with Spirit Walking can punch things on the other side of the barrier as well.

He's over in Japan, getting it on with his Kuei Jin buds. By the way, those Dragonblooded that start talking to Kindred of the East will find some of them can offer them quite a bit...

Five planets. Twenty containers per planet. Jade containment devices.

Anything that would read as Wyrm Tainted counts, I should say.

-- Aaron Peori

How do you know? Maybe Caine, Chejop Kejak, the Kukla, and Autochthon play pinochle every weekend while chatting about events.

"So, how did your day go?"

"Oh, fine, fine, still planning on diablerizing God."

"Still planning?! You've been saying that for the last thousand years! Come on, just do it already!"


"Can you guys please go already? I have to get back to building my robots."

The WoD nuke rules *are* FUBAR. Tacnukes do only 10 levels of aggravated. Strategic nukes do around 30 levels. But they're FUBAR in the opposite way they should be. :p

Now, exomuscle is capable of giving you six extra health levels.

Yes, notice that a Iterator with exomuscle is capable of SURVIVING a nuclear detonation to the face, living on even in the radioactive crater. Now, surviving that might be a bit more difficult at this point, but.... :p

They were actual nuclear weaponry AFAIK, they just had anti-spirit radiation as well. They still had a rather impressive shockwave and such. --One-Ray Angle


While kinda fluffy, i'm not sure if the Exalted and Solars in particular should have oWOD penalties to using 'modern' skills. Remember, they NEVER get penalties for not knowing a skill. The dice pool isn't necessarily large, but even without training Exalts Rock On Toast.

It would probably be better to just RP the lack of knowledge.

*A dextrous Solar and their mortal cop-buddy, against a bunch of gangers/ghouls/whatever*
"Grab the gun, i'm hurt!"
"This thing?  Uh...okay, now what?"
"Now, cock the slide, depress the-
"Uh.  I thought you didn't know how to use a gun?"
*Solar shrugs*
"Seemed simple enough."



Solars and the Imbued. Someone else take it.

But stuff to consider is that without silver standard Exalted tactics will not kill a Garou. I'm thinking a Solar with Brawl and Archery unloading into some Ahroun and them not dying unless they use the ineffiecient (and not likely combo'ed) essence in place of weapons charms.

Goddamn those things were insanely tough.  Agg damage claws and teeth (Solar can't soak that without armor or only with AST, that takes a LONG time for exalts to heal), superfast regeneration built out of an energy pool that exploded with each hit, able to start with a celerity equivalent of three- most WoD residents just spent their time staring at a Werewolf slaughtering them when their actions ran out - and of course the ability to just not die.  No really you have a maximum number of health levels and can reflexively regenerate when they are gone.  Add in the Fetishes and Gifts like make everything that's not an artifact stop working up to and including knives, pulleys, and arrows (the [essence summoned or artifact]bow works but not the ammo) and you are SCREWED.  Or “guess what I healed all the groups damage."  And the ever helpful unpoisonable gift most STs handed out for free.

Persistent defenses should help. If I recall Garou dice pools weren't as large as Exalted, just much more like to hit (lower TNs) and they could popoff alot of them in a turn. Also they have little to nothing to defend against applicably-defying attacks. So if you pop off an old school Crashing Wave Throw they can't parry it.

The cool thing is you can steal their moonsilver and have artifacts of your very own.

Then there is the matter of them stepping Sideways. Whether the 2nd edition need of a reflective surface or the Revised "wherever/whenever" if it weren't for the fact it turned out McDonald's equips its fry cooks with bane bullets (a promotion I'd heartly enjoy) its a wonder there wasn't a civilization that wasn't Garou dominated.


The Imbued would likely see Solars as the messengers. Solar would likely teach the Imbued (and the Shih) Terrestrial Martial Arts.

Standard Soalr tactics won't even kill gods. That's what Charm like Essence Venom Strike and Ghost Eating Technique are for. Likely the Solar would be surprised by his opponents regeration in the first fight and then come back in the next fight with Cut of Dire Principles which does aggravated damage to all Wyld-touched beings.

Iron Skin Concentration completely negates damage if you can roll the opponents Essence on a Sta + Res roll, and Garou likely have less than Essence 3 so that's nothing. Even if it faisl it gives you Aggravated Soak, and Iorn Kettle Body stacks on top of that.

'superfast regeneration built out of an energy pool that exploded with each hit,'

A Solar Martial Artist with his bare hands can inflict at least 25 damage dice with a hit, and a Melee twink could easily do damage on the scale of fifty to a hundred damage per turn.

One health level per action just isn't going to cut it.

Spirits can bank up to ten attacks and unleash them all at once. Solar deal with this just fine.

A Garou's attack pool is going to be, at best around the 15-17 dice range. An Invincible Sword Princess can get a DV of 20 without much effort. Since WoD denizens don't have exploding dice they will NEVER hit the ISP. Ever. She won't even have to deploy Heavenly Guardian Defense.

Yes, because I want to be immaterial around Solars. I like taking aggravated damage from every attack.

--Aaron Peori

1 - you seem to be forgetting Iron Skin Ceoncentration.

2 - Decapitation doesn't need agg, and finally,

3- as I stated before, practically everything in the WoD, such as fire or chainsaws, does aggravated damage. In Exalted, it would be lethal with some healing time penalties.

You can use Rage to defy Shirou Emiya's observation about the world only once per... scene? Game? I can't recall.

Resist Toxin got seriously gimped later on, but moving on, I'd imagine Glorious Solar Saber would probably be immune to things like that, and daiklaves, being enchanted, would be harder to disable than knives.

Also, the Solar in question might be an Eclipse with Claws of the Silver Moon, or they might happen to have a moonsilver object such as razor claws, the most bonus-happy martial arts weapon there is. That's double-aggravated damage, right there, assuming the Garou in question doesn't recognize it and acknowledge the spiritual authority such a hallowed metal grants among modern spirits.

Nothing new there.

The only Garou that have such things are in tight with Sohkta/Pheobe, a manifestation of Luna. They would probably be a bit better informed, and likely high enough in Rank to have Gifts that are roughly comparable to some middling starting Charms. Like being able to shapeshift into literally anything (mythic animals are a bit harder), or to turn silver back on its attackers when the moon isn't new. And Stargazers? They have some of the most hellishly outrageous combat Gifts there are. No, I'm not talking about Kailindo; that's honestly a waste of time. I'm talking about Circular Attack and Preternatural awareness (the former a group-rate Snake Body Technique and Running through the Herd bundle, the latter taking off dice from any attack for every success on the activation roll.

They didn't like civilizations due to The Curse. Everyone feels on edge around them, especially the higher their Rage, and they can sense that. It's kind of like asking why Prometheans don't rule civilizations - if they stay around them for long enough, something bad will happen. Also, a lot of STs like to make the Umbra more like Silent Hill than anything else, especially in the city. --Poisson Resistance

FIRE caused agg, after that most sources were chemical, radioactive, or supernatural. Wolves shred spirits so the agg claws and jaws seems a keeper. I was working 1e Exalted with what I knew of the oWoD WtA

For most of its life it made you immune to damned near anything chemical but civilian brand mace and most didn't know about that last bit as it was a throwaway in either the Guide to Pentex or the Weaver book.

I mentioned that in my complaint/rant. I really REALLY hate that gift and all it does/implies. Yes more so than Shun the Smiling Lady.

I also know all the given reasons for why the setting was the way it was, first of all Garou didn't have the planet all to themselves and they TRIED running the world and gave humanity Delerium and the Gauntlet and not much else. Still as is without the insertion of the evil fomori and banes behind every corner it was ridiculous Garou weren't the dominate species as they could trivially eliminate tool use, one of the major advantages from their competitor, PLUS exceed them at it.

The Garou don't really listen to Luna or much of anyone its why they fought a possible 5 millenia war against their brothers and sisters AND the wrong guy and LOST it. Yeah yeah spiritual-awareness-cakes, they were a society of bipolar disorders only slightly less prone to crazy than the imbued (having millions of potential, if conflicting, spirit allies and realms to dash off to for a breather helps, plus that effective immortality thing) that slaughtered mankind, their fellow changing breeds, their kinsmen, and then humanity. They could rise above their stupid, individually, but as a group they were... well extreme fundamentalists.

The decap thing was me rules lawyering or guidelines clerking as I haven't passed the bar. In oWoD you needed to up your difficulty (TN) by three and score three post soak suxx to take someone's head off and this was preferable to the deplete them of health levels tactic as most things in the oWoD just got annoyed at that and then popped back if you didn't follow the proper procedure to rid yourself of them.

Again most Garou can reflexively shrugg off multiple health levels of damage, even non silver agg damage, in a round with damage in excess of their health counting for nothing and Exalted, in the system, don't have a decap or other moves (corebook on called shots) to take out a supernatural immune to ol' hit it till it's dead (nor the inclination to know that would - work heart destruction by wood isn't universal with blood drinkers in creation, ditto silver being the bane of weres).

If you brought an artifact melee weapon with you you're 'okay' as you can take out maybe one or two Garou a turn, barring abilities optimized to them not dying, and there were ALOT of those, for a moment and make them back off. But the Garou can throw alot of attacks out in a turn that are aggravated at little loss to themselves and soak very well. All that plus gifts and fetishes and group tactics (you rarely face just one) if an Exalt has been tooling with an imbued group and whacking vampires and hungry dead left and right with mortal weapons and little armor (can't go around with [artifacts] in the modern day as its too [conspicuous]) one unprepared encounter could be murder.

Other thoughts but need to organize them particular in mind is The Code and Exalts. Edges, Virtues, Charms, and Limit. And the modern artifact.


Alright, you might see a couple of these Exalted/oWoD threads made by me for the next little while.

Alright, so, the Antideluvian/Deathlords in my game sure got a great array of pawns to use. But the question came to me today which would be better? The Abyssal Exalted they just got recently or the Methuselahs that have been nursed into undead awesome over a millenia or more.

Abyssals can stunt (and in my games non-Essence wielders have limited stunting, even vampires) and they can do that to regain Essence while they're at it. They're much less hindered by sunlight and aren't asleep half the day. They can pass as human while most Methuselahs set off the "not right" radar on most Kine. They have access to Supernatural Martial Arts, Necromancy and Sorcery, and their Charms rock. Heck, Moonshadows can even learn Disciplines and Charms stuff so whatever. They're resistant to mind control though, but are usually recruited to be loyal and are mostly young and inexperienced; mutiny hasn't crossed any of their minds as of yet, but they all know that deep down they can be redeemed so that's a danger.

Methuselah's though can heal vast amounts of damage in an instant, they don't have Excellencies but a 4th or 5th Gen could easily have 8 or 9s in their statistics, plus they can pump them further with blood. Then again they have to drink a lot of blood, some of them can only feed off other vampires. They're much harder to put to Final Death then Abyssals, but if a Deathknight dies they can just be replaced. A Methuselah dies and there goes 2000 years of unlife. The big advantage is Disciplines, they don't scale against Charms easily, but the Abyssals won't be Essence 6 or 7 for a mortal lifetime or so while the Methuselahs have Disciplines at 7 or 8 and those things can be DEVESTATING. And they all can have unique ones. Plus they can make other vampires, ghouls and can cause the blood bond.

I have 5 solars, a lunar and a terrestrial, so when I send a Perfect Circle of Abyssals at them I expect to throw in a Methuselah too. I guess they're just harder to wrangle a group of them together.

But seriously, what's better, Abyssal Exalted or Methuselah Cainites? --Aincumis

It depends on their Essence level. A starting Abyssal is probably not quite a match for a Methuselah. An Essence 5 Abyssal with well-rounded Charms is probably about even. An Essence 7 Abyssal will wipe the floor with any three of them (quite literally; after a Glorious Carnage Typhoon, there's no other way to get the blood out of the collected carpets of North America).

Basically, Abyssals have access to truly perfect tricks. At low Essence, they would be heavily reliant on these, and thus run out of steam early; you can only toss so many Incomparable Sentinel Stances or their social equivalent if that's all you're doing. At mid-level Essence, they're going to have Infinite Ability Mastery to make up for lower base attributes. At high-level Essence, they have access to effects which beggar the imagination, and cheap perfect defenses against Methuselan effects of the same magnitude.

--Vargo Teras

Ravnos is dead. Plus he was a Deathlord, they wouldn't be fighting them, they work for them. If Ravnos was still around he'd have a Deathknight or two.

Perfects are a big bonus for them.

Abyssals can, with Necromancy, call on a variety of things from the Underworld. It's been ravaged recently by the Sixth Great Maelstrom. But Methuselah's can do it too if they have the Necromancy Discipline which I think would be more common amongst Methuselahs.


Also note that from an Exalted perspective Methuselahs are basically uppity (albeit powerful) animated corpses with some unique powers they can use by drinking blood. There are still all kinds of nasty effects that mess with them that they would have very little defense against- PC characters have or can aquire various Holy charms that do very bad things to creatures of darkness that an Abyssal can defend relatively easily against but a Methuselah probably cannot. Even something like Blazing Solar Bolt will cause a Methuselah huge problems since the Methuselah is unlikely to have the "Charms or other Magic" that makes blocking or dodging the attack possible. This means they get smacked with an attack that does Strength + Willpower (easily 10+) aggravated damage plus whatever successes a melee oriented exalt can put together on a totally unopposed Dex + Melee + Essence roll, which is likely another 5 to 6.

If you take a look at necromancy things get even worse- by a strict reading something like Bone Puppet Dance should allow a novice Abyssal to gank a Methuselah's body away from it and use it for its own unspeakable purposes. Even if you ruled against that they have other effects like Master Puppeteer's Knife that are essentially unresistable "you get no save and then die" spells vs. a Methesulah (and Master Pupeteer's Knife has the added advantage of special timing rules). It'd be pretty easy to rule against these since WoD vampires arn't a regular class of Exalted undead and Methuselah's are supposed to be powerful, but in basically any contest where the respective rules do what they say they do Exalted are going to come out on top [i]very[/i] quickly, especially given how fast they advance magically compared to WoD creatures. A tutored Abyssal with an inclination towards it is probably capable of Void Circle necromancy within a couple of years- and something like Blood Monsoon (hardly the most powerful Void Circle Spell) is actually pretty comparable to things like the [I]Obtenebration 9Martikhoras/I] power.

A Deathlord would certainly find some use for Methuselahs but direct combat against the Exalted is certainly not the probable one, especially given their relative fragility, difficulty to replacing, and frequent access to powers that allow for wholesale mental control. Given how easily a Methuselah can create his own goon squad of relatively powerful (for Vampires) minions and their noted inclination to engage in grandiose behind-the-scenes schemes I'd think that a Methuselah would be far more likely to engage Exalts via proxy than directly. Of course since this [i]is[/i] an Exalted and WoD crossover it'd be pretty easy to just have the Deathlords/Malfeans some powers that would actually make them more credible threats, but by default I think that a Methuselah is going to get outclassed by Exalted opposition a lot faster than you'd think and nobody as smart as a Deathlord commanding one is going to waste it as fodder to try killing off a couple of uppity Solars.


While the direct Methuselah Vs Abyssal argument is interesting, it seems that the REAL question is 'which is effective against a bunch of Solars and some other exalts'.

Well, the bunch of solars, especially if they have a Zenith (pretty likely) will have cheap and easy access to 'agg damage against creatures of darkness'. And while both the Abys and Meths count, only the Abys has a perfect defense. The methuselah may have a righteously high dodge pool, but the solars also get cheap perfect attacks, so that counts for squat up close.

So, basically, your circle of Solars is going to walk straight over a Methuselah in stand-up combat without noticing. Seriously. Even if they've got lots of Fortitude (although how Fortitude stacks up against the Exalted damage system is an interesting question in itself).

Fortunately for the Methuselah population, they have one significant advantage here - they never participate in stand-up fights. Ever. It goes against their plans for immortality to actually expose themselves to the possibility of getting hit by a mystically supercharged fist. Instead, they use Dominate 7 to implant the secret command in the heads of everyone watching the 11 O'clock news that if they see a particular bunch of people (the solars) to sneak up behind them and stick them with a knife. Making a secret and unknowing army of mind-controlled assassins who continually swarm the Exalts and distract them from the very existence of the Methuselah is far more likely than the Methuselah actually showing up for the proverbial fist-fight (wielding guns or no).

Just my opinion, but I've always figured the elder vamps had more sense than to get themselves killed.


The whole idea of oWOD + Exalted is so silly that it makes me giddy with joy.

Rock on OP, rock on.

As a sidenote: If this is a reasonably paced game for your players, with standard Exalted XP accrual, yeah, I can't see how the Lawgivers would NOT annihilate any oWOD opposition. I mean, Solars in this setting would pull the kind of crap you see in the beginning of Blade. They've got So many defenses against unnatural mental influence. And power structures?

Hell, how many bureacracy/Investigative charms let you pull the Aragorn "two towers" tracking bit with local politics? *see's a creepy Ghoul hitting on a woman for his master* "I deduce that this person serves a hideous undead monstrosity in control of a megalithic power-structure encompassing the heart of this city like a spider-web around a fly, preying just the same upon the very lives of the unknown citizens of this domain. That...*draws Daiklave* will not do."

After your Methuselah gets reports back from his liutenants that several (chantries? Elysium? I can't remember the term) have been completely gutted, leaving no survivors except for reports of bright light, they're going to feel something they haven't felt in a very long time: Worry.

Now the real question: Who comes out on top? Lunars or Garou (Yiff!)

The mind-breaking question: Sidereals vs Mages(probably Archmasters only)? --Malindle

I had a quick visit to the World of Darkness in my Exalted game. Abyssal Bureaucracy charms can destroy almost any campaign. A simple performance excellency will have you win televised debates and once you are elected.... Iron tyrant Mien, everyone with a willpower less then your essence obeys you unconditionally and those with a willpower equal or less then yours have all attempts at resistance increased by a difficulty equal to your essence.

A mid essence Abyssal already had taken over the state of New York and was starting his presidential campaign. PCs made him take an Oath to stay there, which he was happy to do so. They plan to come back some day to free the WoD but the Abyssal was a Moonshadow so it might be very very difficult.


All Exalted can do this, to some degree; when they do it to help reinforce the Solars, however, the vampires will certainly find out how truly impotent Dominate and Presence are. Builders no longer want to make buildings with basements, and ambient sunlight is channeled all throughout structures; the entire population of a city suddenly desires to raze the vampire's power base, and the Exalted lead them in the effort.

I'd imagine that most Garou would probably defer to most Lunars, seeing as how they can get something better and easier to use than Silver Claws as a first tier Charm, and they can grow moonsilver armor. The fact that they're so trusted by Luna would go a long way towards smoothing things out, and Black Spiral Dancers would start to shit bricks, because Lunars can easily cut them in half like melted butter (doubled unsoakable aggravated damage from moonsilver). Given that Lunars don't share a universal spirit shape, most of the Fera would probably follow suit, except perhaps the coyotes, but they always had their own plans anyway.

On the note of yiffing, certain subcultures would also likely volunteer eagerly to produce beastmen, and thanks to social Charms, it can at least be made neutrally thought of, so as not to be something that the Lunars shoot themselves in the foot with.

I'll let someone else field mage, because I don't feel like touching it even with the Thunder Sword from Legend of Zu. --Poisson Resistance

But, you see, that's the thing. Is sunlight sunlight because it has certain physical properties, or is it sunlight because it is light which comes from the sun? In this instance, context is really important.

I can see the argument that Solar animas are sunlight. They are blessed by the Unconquered Sun, damnit! Creatures of darkness fall before his holy might. Obviously the animas of his Chosen replicate this holiness, doubly so for a Zenith.

I can also totally see the other side. God's angels cursed Caine and his line to revile the light of the sun. It completely doesn't matter that something copies this light 100% in every physical way. It doesn't matter that Solar animas are in essence (and Essence) made of sunlight, because that isn't light directly from the sun. It simply isn't in the spirit of the curse that light which perfectly matches the sun replicates its effects.

As I said, it depends on the game. One option makes conflict between vampires and Solars a quick mopping up job. The other makes it so that the Solars concerned actually have to focus in, figure out strategies, and spend experience to cover their weaknesses and exploit the weaknesses of vampires.

I would favour the latter sort of game. I like the challenges that scenario offer. If it ruins your verisimilatude, that's cool too. It's just that there's no objective answer and the one chosen will shape the game drastically. --TheMouse

Hmmmm... Obviously pointless though this seems, i'm going to indulge myself. Lets go ahead and set some ground rules for the setting (Since the OP hasn't put them down, and i'm indulging myself).

Lets assume that Grabowski was told "Make your new fantasy game! Make it the Pre-History of the WOD!"

So, all of the creation myths, mythology, bizarrity that appear in the oWOD are just mis-remembered fragments from A Time Before Time. Assume that the standard Exalted thing happened, and everyone screwed up everything through petty choices and inaction/inappropriate action. Let's blame Ketchup Carjack, 'cuz it's convenient.

So, everything blew up, Sol Invictus turned his face away and became (with all the others) distant gods. Him and the Pantheon are where the modern world gets its' beliefs in Judeo-Christian dogma thats so prevalent in oWOD, adding in powerful other gods of the Bureacracy as necessary to fill in cultural niches.

Whatever happens is so bad that it grounded the Four Poles around the Pole of Earth, making the world round and banal. The Umbra and all that other junk is really just the Wyld, made more mundane as a whole by the sheer banality of whatever happened to Creation. Still a great place for us to play, but not Boundless Chaos (tm).

So, we're gonna make our Big Races of oWOD descendants from the time of Exalted (gives us a timeline, allows them to get their houses in place without the disruption of the Exalted).

Abyssals = Vampires. Maybe Cain was just one of the last Abyssals, and he found a way to spread the Deathlord Taint/create powerful ghosts using Necromancy a la Buffy The Vampire Slayer style backstory. His Brother was just his Solar/Lunar counterpart. Make the bibilical story fit as you will.

DragonBlooded = Kuei-Jin. They're misremembering things too. They're hearts are in the right place though, but unfortunately so is the crap-ton of hubris that led them to ruining things in the first place.

Lunars = Garou. As things became more banal, they became less mutable. Most settled into a singular form. Alternatively, the Garou are some kind of super-beastman race?

Sidereals = Mages. The correlations aren't as strong here, but lets assume that they fit. I'll have to think on this one.

Solars = Hunters.

Lets say that where the Hunters normally enter the timeline, the Gods again turned their faces to the world a la the Hunter Ministers, but instead of it just being one group, they all released their Chosen upon Creation. Less of a "Everything is sucking, oh woe. Have some power so you might not die" and more of a "Go forth and ROCK!"

Solars do their thing, as do the Lunars and the Sidereals and Abyssals. The descendants of the Kuei-Jin Exalt as Terrestrials. The Malfeans/Neverborn respond to this threat to the destruction of their prison and lift up powerful ghosts from the Labyrinth, recreating the Deathlords (hell, could even be the same ones).

  • whew*. Okay, someone elses turn.


Sorry, Kaui.

Still gives us something to work with. Let's say it does no damage but is close enough on first encounter at the least to induce the fear effect. Also, remember there are an abundance of "extra hurtful to dark and undead" charms. Mainly its only the Zeniths that will slaughter vampires by their sheer existance.

The fact that Exalts can *EAT* any spirit being and PURIFY it in the process will go a long ways to setting them up in the spirit world.

don't most bureacracy charms require you at least understand the organization you're mucking up?

Besides between the fear effect, damage absorption, and on command vanishing effect the other exalts aren't losing. Plus Eclipses... YIKES. While Vamps can do whatever everything from possibly the Garou at a Caern to the heads of Stygia can't touch them (assuming the treaties hold up) ditto the changeling courts and ANY shard realm. Oh and they can learn your powers as charms. Sucks to be you. --Martikhoras

That lead to some difficulty for me as the TN in oWoD was called difficulty and then in Exalted difficulty was number of successes needed that exceeded 7.

Anyways if I ported exalts to owod I'd assume

Hearthstones wouldn't work (or at least subject to the cross planar issues in Exalted proper)

The totem spirit of cairn or formal setting would have to respect the Eclipse but its adherents could attack just without the totem's favor (can't stop garou in their tracks)

Solar animas are close enough to sunlight to cause fear in those afraid of such, dbly so for Dawns and Zeniths. Zeniths burn.

Shaping defenses prevent magic that directly affects you (well at least IPP). Essence also adds to the difficulty of such things.

Solar's *half* their respiration regain at night and regain "normally" during the day but must be in a place affected by the sun (a shaded glade or even a closed shed warmed by the day is fine, a vault with no natural lighting is not)

Nodes, Cairns, etc. go no higher for an exalt than a Demense of four. Geomancy isn't the same so you have to relearn it or its a legendary difficulty to accomplish anything involving it.

Spirits remember but don't know the Exalted.

Sol can't be found (yes, if we must, flaming ball of gas quote). Luna to her pups. The Maidens are the planets and don't talk though "resonate" with their spheres of before and now.

Wyrm tainted things can add the current limit of an exalt to its effects and powers against it.

Exalts can use the occult skill to simulate stuff like Thaumaturgy and necromancy, if they have the proper ingredients.

The exalts have an anti-mundanity effect. People can't seem to forget them and react to them all the time unless they try their hardest not to draw attention or to form its shape. Its hard to miss scrying them, unless they are being stealthy, spirits gossip about them more than anything. People don't forget them or anything else supernatural. Just staying around one will make you believe and see things passively hidden by the "mundanity effect" actively hiding works but in general its harder to bamboozle a mortal who's hanging with an Exalt.

Every bit of essence the Exalted spend weakens the gauntlet on both sides until there is a tear. The twist all regain of motes is "normal" then and the physics is more like creation.

Stunting offers the renewal of resources and the mechanical benefits of the action but no extra dice or rubber movie phsyics. The world seems to squelch the power of awesome, except for in the above situation and of course your charms.

WST and other such charms warp Wyld areas AND the umbra.

Exalted have to learn the language and organization of something before their social charms can go hogwild but there are charms and means for/around that.

Demon-summoning just doesn't seem to work for some reason.

Elemental-summoning is okay but expect the name of the beast to not match who you remember and some elementals aren't the same at all.

Solars can use fetishes but can't receive gifts. Lunars can. Dragonblooded tend to gather spirit allies, whether they want them or not. Spectres and shadows bug Abyssals in relation to their Essence and Whisper trait.

No exalt can practice awakened magic but can learn schools of hedge magic as a degree.

Sidereals powers are ridiculous cut down. They have no access to the central Celestial Bureau (it doesn't exist) or the Loom. The good news is that the pattern spiders remember them and their Great Curse doesn't exist here. The bad news is they are subject to Mage-style paradox which they must negate with additional motes of essence (one per point of paradox), though don't suffer it if their anima is flaring. BTW, their Arcane Fate is 5 but is dropping. SMA still works. Don't forget about spent motes lowering the gauntlet.

Crossing the gauntlet is HARD for the exalts to do without an assist. They tend to lose alot of motes in the instance between crossover and need allies to open doors for them.

Jade is sandstone, orichalum a joke, moonsilver is a ripoff at a new age store, the artifacts on your person is it. You can make some other stuff but right now no industrial forged daiklaves and such.

it is difficulty 5 to use Ride to drive and Sail to pilot until you "update" the skills converting each dot at half price to buy. Guns are no more difficult to use though bullets due to size and speed a difficulty 3 to dodge or parry. Computers and communication devices and other advance technology with fiddly bits is difficulty 5 to learn to use and operate above 'open refridgerator door' though you learn more as time goes on, and as you learn language and stuff.

Physics and Chemistry seems different as well, its hard to put your finger on it. You have to update and revise your formula and principles (use the difficulties from the oWoD) but the empirical science is the same so you can operate. Oddly enough a lore 5 twilight could break down the contents and process of gasoline, and even the construction of an automobile but couldn't drive it.

There is no mundanity effect on Exalts and if someone is using a power than can use the occult detection skill. Charms and artifacts are needed to see the invisible and such more or less but they don't "forget" passively or at most spend a willpower to be immune to such effects for the scene.

All rolls on dominate and other mind effecting powers add the Exalt's essence to their difficulty. (ST discretion)

Changelings gain glamour akin to the dice an Exalt would earn from a stunt if they bear witness (ST discretion)

They can't go back and forth to Creation and the pathways in the umbra tend to warp under their weight as if they are "too heavy" in relation to essence.

Eclipses and their entourage are honored guests in every freehold, seelie and unseelie. Commoners feel compelled to avoid them and nobles will have a flash of insight telling them how to act properly. --Martikhoras

It breaks with GCG's advice on the subject - the Exalted are characters from a fighting anime that dispenses with much of what we know of as reality, and they take this action genre identity with them wherever they go.

And: That aside, it's better to dispense with restrictions that you'll have to keep track of constantly. Now that would kill the wonder of the game. --Poisson Resistance

They can learn hedge magic as a side skill, tear down the barrier between the umbra and the afterlife by just operating (and make the world more like creation), by just EXISTING they make people believe and have hope and stop *ignoring* the world, it is difficult or impossible to control them, no supernatural using their powers can hide from them, fae likely wait on them hand and foot and they can summon elementals at their beck and call.

They are still awesome they just have some *slight* deficiencies in the environment but none as much as running through Malfeas or the Wyld or YuShuan. All of which in short order will be turned into strengths.

I can't run on the spirit roads? What about my now tiger-warrior hedge magick expert followers who's city I purged of vampires and Pentex as I go to slay my next nexus crawler and find out what happened?

The stygian guard invaded? I turn on my anima and just push them back with the sheer force of my awesome and then social fu them into a potent treaty not to screw with me anymore and help resolve their issues. The Technocracy attacks, I disassemble their hitmarks learn all I can and then make my own.

Garou refuse to call me brother? I have their totem acknowledge me PLUS beat them all into submission and MAKE luna love me again.

Fae dying? Not now that I am here.

Hunters going nuts? I'm here to reinforce you brother in arms against the night.

Demons running amuck? I force out a confession and then load up to gather any and all artifacts and armies and ready to fight the onslaught.


BTW I amanged to dig one of my old post about an Exalted/Wod Chronicle Idea that I posted some time ago:

I recently had an idea for a modern Lurnars game set in old WoD. I think lunars would be easier to run since their charms are based on attributes not abilities. So here goes:

The character would create (but not write up) a group of different Bete (all homid). They would remember very little of their first change (through memories would return it time). They'd get pick-up by race and trained as usually, but their caretaker notice a few things strange about them. They can't enter the Umbra (that would be too strange in case of Bastet for example), they are inept to learning gifts and they can not assume partial form. They also would from time to time emit strange silvery light. A little time after the PC would have a flash back of their first change of rather their Exaltion and their meeting with Luna who would fill the in on a couple of thing. The current state of the world is pretty much Autochthon fault. He in his weakened state has being feeding on Gaia and her essence (pretty much verifying the Weaver is the real badguy theory). He also to upon the task of shaping the wyld, whole of it and combined it with elsewhere (and using it to seal off the shadowlands and underworld) to create what we now to day as Umbra (that’s way the umbra seem so different to different people. It still posses some of it's wyld potential allowing it to change). With the lowered essences level in creation, the Exalts power seemed to wain allowing some of the celestial to pass on their diminished power (either through birth [the lunars => bete], or through blood [abysals=> vampires]). The celestials were cut of from creation (not that they noticed it at first) with the whole of Yu-shan that is now lost somewhere in the Umbra. Most escaped Yu-shan but the US is still trapped in side it. Many of the exalts cut of from their patrons sought new protectors. The lunars relied around Gaia, heeding her call for protection, but acting in mistaken believes that it was the Yozis fault (latter building an elaborate cosmology surrounding the entrapment of the Ebony Dragon). The dragon-blooded on the other fall under the thrall of both the Yozis and the Malfeans, for whom they learned how to supplement their waing power with the essences of other creatures (which is pretty much the way the fall of the Wan-Xain was described in Hengeyokai). The sidereal chose either Autochthon (technocrats), the disappearing Wyld (Marauders), Yozis or the Malfeans (Nephandi) none of the above (the independent who would later create the Traditions and Crafts). The Alchemicals lay dormant in Autochthon, waiting for their master savior and (if activated) serving him and interacting with the local Int. X members.

The PC are Lunar exalted (the culmination of several thousand years of gathering essences and working out how to overcome the lack of Lytek). Their job is simple. Save the world from galactus ehm unicron Autochthon. They keep the Exalted system (TN 7, bonus dice for stunt and all) because the process of exaltion, connected the to the loom of fate (Since the time of the sundering when Yu-shan was lost in the Umbra most things aren’t). Their first mission: Get to Malfean (through the nearest desert, because you can't really enter the umbra) and convince the Ebony dragon to defend Gaia and the release him. Yeah that's going to make the shape changer really happy. :D

--Coyote's Own

I can't post too much details of my crossover, I've already done way too much of that on another thread. Granted I asked my players not to read that one really. But I got it all worked out, how Mages can affect reality and how Sol Invictus is the devil. I'm pretty proud of it.

So, the final decisions are clear;

Abyssals have some major advantages, in the social arena and especially the physical, that make direct confrontation between the two (or Methuselahs and Solars) clearly in the favor of the Exalt. That's what Exalts do, they deal with things directly.

It's not what Methuselahs do. They have any number of powers and experience that aid them in the field they excel at. Indirect conflict. Minions, influence, long-term planning.

BUT, I think Methuselahs are also pretty confident in their ability to lay the smackdown on most things in their world. They will be taken by surprise by the tenacity of the Chosen. It will be a mistake they will take to heart.

Now, now ...

What about Antideluvians? By's reckoning, how would the Antideluvians, all things fair, measure up against the Exalted. I accept that the Solars especially have easy access to Holy attacks and Perfects and all that good stuff the Antideluvians don't have.

But, I think they would have an effect or two, somewhere in their arsenal, that could be effectively Perfect. Some Celerity 8 custom discipline?

Also, the Physical Disciplines ... how do they stack up? A Methuselah (lets say a Brujah) has Celerity and Potence 8, plus Fortitude at the same. I let Celerity add to Dodge DV as well as the cheap 1 blood point for 8 extra actions (alas, next turn). Potence adds 8 automatic successes to ALL strength actions for free (cheaper then the Second Excellency). And Fortitude adds levels of soak for lethal, aggravated and bashing. Considering the difference in damage ratings in Exalted combat I'm giving vampires 1.5 x Fortitude rating Soak.

Yeah, LOW LOW Generation vampires are gonna be pretty good physically but young ones don't stand a chance. And, my Solar anima banners aren't real sunlight, the Sun in the WoD isn't the Unconquered variety and the vampires are cursed against that specific one. It does cause Rotschreck though and it sure blinds Setites.


A newbie Abyssal would probably lose to a 4th gen Methuselah-- especially if the Abyssal isn't combat twinked.

But really, the point of parity comes pretty early along the XP curve, assuming we're going from Exalted 1e to oWoD, which would be the most compatible, edition wise. You have to bear in mind that Vampires were set up in a system where you didn't really have a lot of ways to dodge-- you soaked it, or you burnt actions, or your split your action pool. The vampires get better if you move to ex2e where their stat pools can be turned directly into Dodge and Parry ratings-- but then you have to contend with excellencies and souped up perfects.

Still, vampires have no reflexives, no combos, no persistent defenses and-- most importantly-- no perfects. They can't stunt to regenerate essence (though there may be an available source of blood, depending on the setting). ITheir stat blocks would be pretty monsterous, of course-- as high as 36, if I'm doing my math right (9 attribute + 9 blood + 9 skill +9 Fortitude or Potence?), because they don't suffer from a die-adder cap. In all likelihood, though, they would be pretty substantially lower. I'd actually wonder if the fight wouldn't resemble a going up against some really buff Fair Folk Cataphractoi. ADamiani

I'd do it like this:

Redo all the oWoD critters with Exalted rules. That is, same basic nine attributes, and twenty-five abilities. However creatures of the WoD are pale an oppressed. They do not count 10 as two successes, nor do the have the ability to stunt. When determining their base abilities they are much less awesome than the Exalted, halve their Strength + Athletics for all purposes. Archery becomes Firearms, Ride becomes Drive and Sail becomes Pilot. Use Lore to operate Computers.

Hearthstones still work. They work in the Underworld and Mafleas and the depths of Pure Chaos, so they still work. If this is a "jump forward in time" thing then they don't as the geomancy has changed since then. The cairns and nodes of the WoD are damaged greatly, and none count as more than a one dot Demense. However they have a potential Demense rating of their actual rating, provided the Exalt is willing to engage in some geomantic reconstruction of the area.

Exalt's powers are repressed. Treat them as denizens of the WoD, but with the ability to stunt UNTIL they start using Charms. During any action in which they spend at least one mote they act as Exalts, including the ability to use rubber movie physics. If the Exalt's anima is displaying at any level this effect last for the remainder of the scene. Any Exalt can use a simple Intelligence + Occult roll to gain Essence from tass/vitae/Glamour etc. Provided they have some. This is a Art with a minimum Occult of 3 and takes 15 minutes. It restores the Tass rating squared in motes if preformed properly.

Solar have the least to worry about. All their Charms derive from their inherent awesomeness. None of them change. Solars regain motes only during the day.

Lunars are also mostly unchanged. Casteless Lunars treat the Umbra as Deep Wyld for the purposes of Chimerism. Lunars regain motes only when the moon.

Terrestrials are least effected of all. Their Charms do not change in the slightest and they regain Essence all day long.

Sidereals are the most hosed. Any Charm with the Fate keyword will not work (since there is no Fate). Other Sidereal Charms (excluding Excellencies but including Essence Auspicious and Propitious (Ability) Alignment) have their mote costs doubled. Sidereal Astrology does not work on being that are not native to Creation, which means that Sidereal may place Destinies (Ascending, Descending or Resplendant) on themselves. The one exception to this is the Charm "Creation-Preserving Will" which creates an area of Creation 10yrds around the character. Within this field [I]allMartikhoras/I] the Sidereals powers work as normal. Martial Arts works regardless of the state of the world.

Abyssals are the most delighted. All their Charms work very well, in fact much better than normal (reduce the cost of all Abyssal Charms by one mote to a minimum of 1). They can respire Essence freely. They still accumulate Resonance but only for general crimes.

The Gauntlet and Shroud are beyond the character's purviews usually. Any Exalt who can Dematerialize may attempt to cross the Gauntlet or Shroud. Doing so is a Essence roll at a difficulty of one half the Gauntlet/Shroud rating. Casting the spell Open the Spirit Door or Summon the Heavenly Portal will create a rift into the Umbra instantly upon completion. Anyone within (The sorcerer's essence x 10 yrds) must make a Strength + Athletics check difficulty of the sorcerer's Essence or be draw into the rift and sent into the Umbra. Such travel is one way, and casting the spells in the Umbra does not release the character. Presumably one could study a spell that created an Umbral gate that was stable and two way. Strangely enough Necromancy spells that take you to the Underworld or Labyrinth work just fine.

Solars and Abyssal may learn custom Lore based Charms that allow them to cross the Gauntlet/Shroud with impunity. Solars are naturally attuned to the Umbra and Abyssals to the Underworld. Such Charms require a Lore excellency as their prerequisite and are Lore 5, Essence 3 and cost 5m for a one way trip in either direction. Learning to travel to the realm not attuned to you is a seperate Charm one Essence higher. A permanent upgrade Charm at Essence 3 allows you to take a unit equal to your Essence in magnitude across the barrier with you. Solar int he Underworld do not respire, nor do Abyssals in the Umbra. They will have to create these Charms from scratch (ie, 4x training times). Solar in the Umbra may use Wyld-Shaping Technique to their hearts content.

Lunars can learn a simple Charm at Intelligence 3, Essence 2 that will allow them to pass through any reflective surface into the Umbra. Any Garou can serve as a tutor for this Charm. Passage into the Underworld is more difficult, requiring Intelligence 5, Essence 4 and the previous Charm. The cost of either Charm is 3m for a one way trip. Lunar do not respire Essence in the Underworld.

Terrestrial's are SOL when it comes to the other realms.

Sidereals have an easy way to get to the Umbra. Any Sidereal who activates the Charm Walking Outside Fate will find himself either in the Umbra or the Underworld, whichever region has the lowest Gauntlet/Shroud rating for the location the character is in. This Charm is an exception to the general rule for no access to Fate based Charms. So long as the motes remain commited the character will continue to remain in the other world. He can return to the material world by simply ending the Charm. However if the character has wandered into the Deep Umbra or Labyrinth since then deactivating the Charm will merely strand him in that location! Sidereal do not respire Essence in the Underworld... until they use Creation-Preserving Will anyway. On the plus side, Sidereals still benefit from Arcane Fate at full effect.

Learning modern skills is easy. A player can spend 3xp (as if buying a speciality) for Archery, Ride, Sail or Lore to have the "Modern" specialty which allows use of all modern devices. Similarly the "electronics" specialty for Craft: Air (harnessing lightning, you see) will make them good electricians. Players who don't have these specialties suffer a -2 internal penalty to all rolls. Firearms may not be parried unless the Exalt without a stunt, and all attempts to defend against them are at a -1 external penalty because they are effectively invisible since they move so fast. Any Exalt with suitable Charms can negate this penalty (a Solar Enhanced Sight Charms certainly count). Steal the weapons list from Scion, add "Rate 2" to every weapon except the Remington and the Shotgun, which gain Rate 1. Remember that all social skills are used at -2 External Penalty if you don't have the Language to back it up.

Vampires aren't much of a threat. The Essence score of vampire is its Blood Pool divided by five, round up (so a vampire with a blood pool of ten has Essence 2, one with 11-15 has Essence 3, 16-20 Essence 4 and so on). A vampire must commit three motes to animate its corpse every night to rise form its slumber, these commited motes don't regenerate and it must feed to restore its other motes (one health level = 1 mote as per Abyssals). Generally speaking any vampire Discipline that effects others minds is an Unnatural Mental Influence that automatically effects anyone whose Dodge MDV is less than the vampires Essence + Discipline + (appropriate Attribute, usually Manipulation), Exalts (and only Exalts) can resist them at a cost of one Willpower. They cost 2m to activate for every blood point they cost to activate. Fortitude grants +2B/2L/+2A Soak and +1B/+1L Hardness per level. Holy effects ignore this and deal Aggravated Damage. A single dot of Potence means the character use the Strenegth + Athletics chart as an Exalt, and each dot also adds two points to the character total. Potence adds +2 to the base damage of any hand to hand attack for every dot the Kindred has. Celerity acts as an Extra Action Charms, the first action is "free" and each 2m spent increases the number of actions in the flurry by one, up to a maximum of Celerity +1 Actions. These may be any action the character could flurry, including extra Move and Jump and Dash actions. Protean grants the character the equivalent Mutations. Auspex grants the user Essence Sight and allows him to act as a supernatural tracker. Vampires confronted with a Solar anima (any Solar anima) must make a Valor check or flee in terror. While Zenith animas are uncomfortable they don't instantly destroy, but vampires are Creatures of Darkness.

Garou are treated as Beastmen Godblooded with the Essence Channeler Blight. They can learn Spirit Charms (see the awesome new Rolls of Glorious Divinity). Almost all Garou have the Principle of Motion Charm. The Chrinos Form grants appropriate mutations (Wolf's Pace, Claws, Fur, Huge and Enhanced Smell most likely).

Mage sphere magick counts as a Shaping Effect. Integrity Protecting Prana protects against all direct magick, Lunar tattoos protect against any direct effect that you change their body (but not neccesarily Mind). Sidereal under the auspice of Creation-Preserving Will can not be effected by sphere magick nor will any of it work within ten yrds of them. Indirect attacks are still possible. A Terrestrial Exalt with Protection From Anathema subtracts their Essence in successes from any attempt to effect them with Sphere magic, similarly a Solar can use Destiny-Manifesting Method to increase the difficulty of such rolls by 2 (whether they are direct or indirect). Any Exalt may use Emerald Countermagic to counter any Rote being cast within their line of sight, similarly the Spell-Shattering Palm will snuff Magick if the enemy is foolish enough to try it within melee range.

Generally speaking sphere magic requires a roll of Essence with a difficulty of the Sphere rating. Every 2m spent decrease the difficulty by one (to a minimum of zero). Using Sphere Magic in combat time requires a Shape Sorcery action followed by a Cast Sorcery action to unleash it. Damage for rotes is the square of the Sphere level plus extra success on the effect roll, indirect effects must be targeted with Perception + Archery/Throw as an attack roll, extra successes adding to damage as normal. Direct damage magic is Unblockable and Undodgeable. The Time Sphere can create a stack of Extra Actions like Principle of Motion, this requires Time 3 and creates one Extra Action for each success on the effect roll beyond the difficulty, to a maximum of the users Essence in the stack at any one time. Unused Extra Actions fade when the duration of the Rote ends. If a Mage attempts Vulgar Magic any ones he rolls on the effect roll cancel out successes and if he Botches he suffers a Paradox Backlash (treat this as Sidereal Paradox backlash, including Pattern Bite). Exalted do not count as Sleepers, obviously. In fact, if an Exalt's anima is flaring at any level nothing the Mage does in his presence counts as Vulgar, regardless of witnesses! Mages do not respire Essence, but can store up to their Essence x 2 motes.

Chaneglings love Exalts. Just being in the presence of an Exalt allows them to regenerate one Essence per hour. If the Exalts is displaying their anima, this increase to the Exalt's Essence rating. Treat Changelings as Fae-blooded, with the Awakened Essence inheritance and Fair Folk Charms. The Dreaming is actual Shaping Combat that occurs can effect any Awakened Essence being, with a limited effect on mundanes. All mundanes get from +1 to +5 DV versus Shaping Combat and if that negates the attack they don't even sense it at all. They can only regain Essence in the presence of suitably inspired individuals (one mote per day) or by ravishing (one mote per willpower point consumed). Exalts with Wyld-protection Charms are immune to Changeling Shaping Combat.

Ghosts are ghosts, but tend to have about half as many motes as normal for their Essence. Spirits are spirits, but also have about half as many motes as epxected, and about half as many Charms as well. Specters count as Creatures of Darkness, as do Wyrm spirits. All nature spirits loyal to Gaia will treat Lunars with fawning respect and Solars with awe bordering on stupification, reduce all MDVs for such spirits by 2. On the other hand, unaligned spirits will be innately more hostile, increase MDVs by 2. Pattern Spiders will tend to run up to any Sidereals they meet, frolicking like attention starved kittens and making disturbingly soothing purring sounds. They will not leave them alone unless forced to. They will do everything in their power to prevent the Sidereal from leaving them alone, up to and including trapping him in stasis webs for the rest of time. Terrestrials will be treated with odd courtesy, more than mortals recieve but less than Garou and they will flee from Abyssals. Except Wyrm spirits. Wyrm spirits LOVE Abyssals. They would love to show you things!

The Incarnae don't respond to the Exalt's attempts to contact them. Any Sidereal who journeys into the Umbra to Neptune or Uranus may discover strange new scriptures there, which detail entirely new Charms. These Charms would replace the Fate based Charms that no longer work in the World of Darkness with versions that do, or perhaps bizarre new ones! Such a journey would be full of epic deeds. What about Pluto, Eris and Ceres? Hidden on in these strange realms are pieces of a puzzle that, once assembled, would allow the Sidereal to use Astrology just as if he were on Creation. Most nervously of all, the Sidereals will find sealed Jade and Starmetal boxes that feel strangely familiar on each of these planets realms, each of which contains exactly 20 locked compartments. No known key will open them.

In the great scheme of things the following count as Creatures of Darkness - Vampires, Ghouls, Zombies, Specters, Wyrm-spirits, Fomori, Black Spiral Dancers, Nephandi and Marauders.

Treat the Delirium/Mists/Whathaveyou as Arcane Fate.

--Aaron Peori