Jai/BoDOC

Bow of Dusk & The Obsidian Quiver Old Comments Archive

Wow. Love the descriptions! Really nice stuff. Sorry to intrude again, but I just had to say... - Nikink

Lol. Np, glad you like it. :) - Jai

It'd help if you had the names of the artifacts somewhere on the page, Jai. Also, this is two Artifacts (Quiver and Bow) and should be rated as such. The quiver itself is around level 3 while the bow is level 5. It would be another level 3 except for the first ritual power. You can regain 2-5 health levels per enemy killed at no cost. A basic EA charm against several extras and BAM. You're fully healled no matter what. That's outrageously powerful. - Telgar

Yeah, I think you might be right about including the names of the artifacts. I wanted to make it a 'set' item, so I didn't seperate them. The Quiver serves no other purpose other then to act as the Bow's only form of ammo (except for certain charms etc), if it were lost/stolen/destroyed in some way, the Bow would become for most purposes, useless. As for the "outrageously powerful" bit, well I can understand how you might see it as such. It is a level 5 artifact, and well I figure that if the archer is in a position where he's wounded mortally enough to use that ritual, then he wouldn't be just fighting extras now, would he? But yes, it might be a bit too powerful, I might reduce it to "half his permanent essence in health levels..." - Jai

I don't see how that logic applies. The quiver doesn't say it only provides arrows for the bow, it says it provides arrows with a number of useful benefits and regains them automatically as well. The bow doesn't say it only uses Quiver arrows, so it can have its magical whatsists going on with any target arrow around. And, yes, someone who's lost a bunch of health levels probably isnt ONLY fighting extras, but if there are extras around they'll die pretty damn fast to an Abyssal's extra action charm. And then in two, three Extras, the Abyssal is back at full health and can deal with having lost 1 action. Basically that ritual reads: Pay 6-12 motes and take a Simple action. You heal all damage. Which is insane. - Telgar

Hmm. Well, that problem is fixed. But now you have a level 5 artifact that is unblockable, does aggravated damage to fair folk, subtracts a *success* from every combat action per successful strike, cumulativly, can regain health levels at no cost, can raise the dead. It can also fire whatever sort of arrow its user wants for a low cost. Combined together, these strike me as pretty damn potent for even a level 5. Mostly the "regain all my health levels in a single turn at low-no cost" thing. - Telgar

Doh, you saved while I was still editing some things. Recent edits: Specifically states that the Bow and the quiver will not work independently from each other. The first ritual only permits half the Permanent Essence rating in health levels to be drained. And the interval for replenishing lost arrows is now 4 turns. I originally had no attunement cost for the Quiver, it would operate only if a level 2 or higher hearthstone was inset into it. The archer would lose all the stone's benefits, it would only serve as an essence battery of sorts...I wonder if I should put back in instead. - Jai

The health level regain power wouldn't be so bad if the "ritual" actually took time. A few minutes at least. It shouldn't be something that can be done inside combat. That's what really unbalances its effects. - Telgar

Thought about what you said. How about this; the first ritual will only work once per scene. And he now has a choice of regaining up to his Permanent Essence rating in health levels or twice that in motes. Also, the arrows can not be blocked with shields or weapons of a non-magical nature (I'm not sure if you thought that I was saying that these arrows will ignore armor, because I wasn't, armor is not affected at all). I really do want to thank you for these comments, it's hard to get such good costructive criticism these days. :) - Jai

I'd suggest putting the lev 2 hearthstone back in, or making the quiver cost motes, even if it's just 1m for Essence arrows. (the lower cost because they can only be used for one weapon. Most arrows are 1m per arrow, see Neph's everlasting quiver). But those are only my opinions. Perhaps you need to -get- to the corpse to use the ritual on it? That might help... not sure.
-- Darloth

I know what you meant in reference to the arrows only being dodgeable. Unblockables means unparriable. That's still pretty nasty, cutting out 1/3rd of the defensive options. However, you didn't say they were "unparriable only to mortal weapons", that makes them somewhat better considering the proliferation of 5MM weapons among the Exalted. I disagree with the idea of requiring a level 2+ hearthstone. I've always seen adding Hearthstone requirements as a cheap way of balancing overpowered items. "Oh, this level X seems a bit strong, but I don't want it to go up to X+1. I know! I'll require someone take Manse and yet get no benefit from it! That solves my problem!" No. That's a crappy way of "fixing" a bad design. Fix the design. Sorry. Pet peeve.
I suppose limiting the power to one use per scene makes it better. I'd prefer it require the physical presence and multilation of the corpse or something, because regaining 2-5 HL is damn powerful when its free and doesn't take an action. - Telgar

Flavour-wise, it seems a bit odd for a Bow+Quiver artifact to allow healing via stepping up to a corpse and mutilating (or whatever). I'd make the healing ability function at range (upon a successful arrow strike), only one HL regained per kill (perhaps 2B or 1L), have a surcharge in essence (only minor, 1-3m perhaps) and be usable Permanent Essence times per day. So to Heal, the Archer must Kill someone and pay 2m for one L level of damage regained (or two B levels), and can do this a max of their Essence rating (3-5 usually). Hell, even just one HL regained per kill would probably be enough. At the beginning of the battle the Archer has dozens of mooks to kill in one strike, to heal the damage caused by the circle of Exalts, but at the end of the battle there's no mooks left and it's tough to kill an Exalt... - nikink

The prospect of putting a hearthstone back in as a requirement doesn't appeal to me, and so, no, it's not going back in. I removed it for the very same reasons Telgar states. As for mutilation or getting close to the corpse. Heh, like nikink stated, it's a Bow+Quiver artifact, if it was a close combat weapon (such as a dagger, sword, axe etc) I wouldn't have a problem with it, but given the fact that it is what it is, that is quite out of the question. I just don't want to go there. This artifact seems near done in my opinion, and after reading about what level 5 artifacts are supposed to be capable of in the Book of Three Circles, this seems pretty balanced in that purview. The only point of contention I can still see is the near instanteous health regen, well that is easily fixed by spreading it out at 1L or 1B per turn over the course of the scene for a total number of health levels set at the archer's Permanent Essence rating. In relation, if truth be told, I think most of the level 5 artifacts in the canonical texts are pretty tame and don't come anywhere near the supposed caliber that power level should have, as outlined in the Book of Three Circles. - Jai

Very true, canon authors have constantly over-statted their Artifacts. Though Dragon Armors and such ARE level 5's, but they have these silly "maintain ratings" and "requires a Hearthstone" that supposedly "balance" them for level 4. Pfft. I just think there should be a cost or some effort involved in regaining health levels during combat as that is rather massivly powerful. Or a one-time-limit, as you've suggested. - Telgar