Difference between revisions of "MartialArts/BloodOperaStyle"

From Exalted - Unofficial Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
m (typo correction)
 
m (link fix)
Line 179: Line 179:
 
: Another question: Why limit any of these charms to firearms at all?  With the exception of the form, you could just easily substitute 'unarmed martial arts attack' for each of your charms, it would still make sense, and it would mean the martial artist is competant without a firearm, if not quite as impresive.  This is key, if you want this MA to be viable in the long term, as high essence combat, for the martial artist, is usually unarmed (between sidereal styles and the variances of form weapons) and depends on combining styles for awesome combos.  (Which you could only do with Righteous Devil, as you've written things.) - [[Scrollreader]]
 
: Another question: Why limit any of these charms to firearms at all?  With the exception of the form, you could just easily substitute 'unarmed martial arts attack' for each of your charms, it would still make sense, and it would mean the martial artist is competant without a firearm, if not quite as impresive.  This is key, if you want this MA to be viable in the long term, as high essence combat, for the martial artist, is usually unarmed (between sidereal styles and the variances of form weapons) and depends on combining styles for awesome combos.  (Which you could only do with Righteous Devil, as you've written things.) - [[Scrollreader]]
  
That's actually something I've been wondering about, and the first draft of the style did include unarmed attacks as in-form; I was thinking of this as a Righteous Devil guns-only alternative, but it's really more robust than that.  Now that I look at it, I'm more worried about Righteous Devil combos (particularly easy ones, like Kiss of the Sun and the damage doubler) because taking the superior charms in RD with the superior form charm in Blood Opera seem much more imbalancing than taking Blood Opera and than using another "regular" MA.  So let's say we do allow unarmed for each charm - in fact, I'll do that now.    Hmmm...  I like this.  Especially thinking about an Abyssal Hungry Ghost/Blood Opera MAist... oooh.  Another unintended side effect to this is that Cut Down the Paper Men is not that good a charm when you've got firearms, but is a very nice charm when you're making totally unarmed attacks.  Thanks, Scrollreader!  Very cool. - [[garrisod]]
+
That's actually something I've been wondering about, and the first draft of the style did include unarmed attacks as in-form; I was thinking of this as a Righteous Devil guns-only alternative, but it's really more robust than that.  Now that I look at it, I'm more worried about Righteous Devil combos (particularly easy ones, like Kiss of the Sun and the damage doubler) because taking the superior charms in RD with the superior form charm in Blood Opera seem much more imbalancing than taking Blood Opera and than using another "regular" MA.  So let's say we do allow unarmed for each charm - in fact, I'll do that now.    Hmmm...  I like this.  Especially thinking about an Abyssal Hungry Ghost[[/Blood]] Opera MAist... oooh.  Another unintended side effect to this is that Cut Down the Paper Men is not that good a charm when you've got firearms, but is a very nice charm when you're making totally unarmed attacks.  Thanks, Scrollreader!  Very cool. - [[garrisod]]
  
 
I like the imagery of this style, though I'm unsure of the effects of a few charms in the style
 
I like the imagery of this style, though I'm unsure of the effects of a few charms in the style
Line 201: Line 201:
 
*I don't know whether the pinnacle charm is suitable for Celestial Level Martial Arts. It is a simple charm, so it's coming in without any other actions. If the target can dodge or parry it, you're in trouble (unless you have your own persistent defenses). I would suggest increasing its prerequisites to Essence 4, though, because it is a very powerful ability.
 
*I don't know whether the pinnacle charm is suitable for Celestial Level Martial Arts. It is a simple charm, so it's coming in without any other actions. If the target can dodge or parry it, you're in trouble (unless you have your own persistent defenses). I would suggest increasing its prerequisites to Essence 4, though, because it is a very powerful ability.
  
Overall, I really like the style, and have an NPC that would fit this quite nicely. - HeridFel
+
Overall, I really like the style, and have an NPC that would fit this quite nicely. - [[HeridFel]]
  
  
 
Kraken, Heridfel, thanks for looking things over - I still think of this style as being in the draft stage, and some of these charms have some strange effects that I'm not sure are balanced.  Painkiller Prana, as currently written, doesn't have a cap - and this could mean (with the Cantata, which, btw, is a totally beautiful use of this charm that I hadn't thought of yet) the one jillion HLs issue.  It is, however, scene-long, meaning that once the MAist loses his dramatic momentum he's back to square one.  I'm still not sure if essential-invulnerability (well, except from Chord of Cruel Mercy, which was designed to counter it) is a good thing, even if it is for a single scene.  Fix for now: a cap on undamaged Prana HLs equal to MAist's Willpower at any one time.  This way, the MAist can gain more of these as he needs them over the scene by killing more extras, but any single instance of mass slayage can (at max) only give (Willpower)HLs - hence keeping our Cantata sorcerer from getting invincible.  Having six to eight extra HLs, on top of the Bottomless Suffering three to five, should be plenty, especially when you can just whack a few mortals to get some more.
 
Kraken, Heridfel, thanks for looking things over - I still think of this style as being in the draft stage, and some of these charms have some strange effects that I'm not sure are balanced.  Painkiller Prana, as currently written, doesn't have a cap - and this could mean (with the Cantata, which, btw, is a totally beautiful use of this charm that I hadn't thought of yet) the one jillion HLs issue.  It is, however, scene-long, meaning that once the MAist loses his dramatic momentum he's back to square one.  I'm still not sure if essential-invulnerability (well, except from Chord of Cruel Mercy, which was designed to counter it) is a good thing, even if it is for a single scene.  Fix for now: a cap on undamaged Prana HLs equal to MAist's Willpower at any one time.  This way, the MAist can gain more of these as he needs them over the scene by killing more extras, but any single instance of mass slayage can (at max) only give (Willpower)HLs - hence keeping our Cantata sorcerer from getting invincible.  Having six to eight extra HLs, on top of the Bottomless Suffering three to five, should be plenty, especially when you can just whack a few mortals to get some more.
  
Harvester of Sorrow: Yes, I've gone ahead and made it MA attacks, I don't really care for the Obsidian Butterflies/got all my Essence back exploit.  However, as Painkiller Prana is farther down the tree and is limited above, I'll leave that one open for sorcerous kills.  Thanks for finding it, HeridFel!
+
Harvester of Sorrow: Yes, I've gone ahead and made it MA attacks, I don't really care for the Obsidian Butterflies/got all my Essence back exploit.  However, as Painkiller Prana is farther down the tree and is limited above, I'll leave that one open for sorcerous kills.  Thanks for finding it, [[HeridFel]]!
  
 
Vengeance Loses Patience: Well, it's already only a poor man's Perfect, and it's definitely inferior to Azure Abacus, which really is a perfect attack, and for the same cost - I think I'll leave it for now.  Vengeance's only real advantage over the Abacus is being Supplemental.  
 
Vengeance Loses Patience: Well, it's already only a poor man's Perfect, and it's definitely inferior to Azure Abacus, which really is a perfect attack, and for the same cost - I think I'll leave it for now.  Vengeance's only real advantage over the Abacus is being Supplemental.  
Line 214: Line 214:
 
I'll go ahead and make these changes.  Thanks for your input! -[[garrisod]]
 
I'll go ahead and make these changes.  Thanks for your input! -[[garrisod]]
  
To HeridFel : Well, yes, I'd certaily assume they would be targetted post-haste, but they would then have several thousand or more Health Levels, which should ''just'' be enough for them to weather the storm that is sure to come their way ...  
+
To [[HeridFel]] : Well, yes, I'd certaily assume they would be targetted post-haste, but they would then have several thousand or more Health Levels, which should ''just'' be enough for them to weather the storm that is sure to come their way ...  
  
 
Now more generally ...
 
Now more generally ...
Line 225: Line 225:
 
Well, <i>I</i> like it. So there. --[[MF]]
 
Well, <i>I</i> like it. So there. --[[MF]]
  
Some people is worried about <i>Vengeance Loses Patience With Trickery</i>. I can see their point but don't feel strongly about it. How about making it work both ways? That is, any attack that is enhanced with VLPWT can't be enhanced except with other Perfect charms? So if the defender don't get persistents, the attacker don't get dice adder either. - TonyC
+
Some people is worried about <i>Vengeance Loses Patience With Trickery</i>. I can see their point but don't feel strongly about it. How about making it work both ways? That is, any attack that is enhanced with VLPWT can't be enhanced except with other Perfect charms? So if the defender don't get persistents, the attacker don't get dice adder either. - [[TonyC]]
  
I think Painkiller Mantra's extra HL should be limited further. Right now technically you could use the temporary HL to pay the HL costs of various charms. I think that throws charm balance out of whack. Charm costs are motes, willpower, and HL. Of this, HL is the most expensive and you can see in the main book that charms with HL cost are usually quite powerful. I suggest adding the wording "temporary HL can't be used to power charms that requires HL cost." - TonyC
+
I think Painkiller Mantra's extra HL should be limited further. Right now technically you could use the temporary HL to pay the HL costs of various charms. I think that throws charm balance out of whack. Charm costs are motes, willpower, and HL. Of this, HL is the most expensive and you can see in the main book that charms with HL cost are usually quite powerful. I suggest adding the wording "temporary HL can't be used to power charms that requires HL cost." - [[TonyC]]
  
Hmmm... I like where you're going with this, TonyC.  I think I will make the change to Vengeance Loses Patience, so it can't be exploited with attack charms.  As for Painkiller Mantra, you've got a point about HL expenditures, how about "temporary HL can't be used to power charms that require HL costs, except for the Painkiller Mantra itself." - [[garrisod]]
+
Hmmm... I like where you're going with this, [[TonyC]].  I think I will make the change to Vengeance Loses Patience, so it can't be exploited with attack charms.  As for Painkiller Mantra, you've got a point about HL expenditures, how about "temporary HL can't be used to power charms that require HL costs, except for the Painkiller Mantra itself." - [[garrisod]]
  
I was actually thinking VLPWT could be enhanced, but only with Perfects (Perfect vs. Perfect, lesser charms need not apply) but no charm is fine too. As Pain Killer Mantra, yeah, it's cool. - TonyC
+
I was actually thinking VLPWT could be enhanced, but only with Perfects (Perfect vs. Perfect, lesser charms need not apply) but no charm is fine too. As Pain Killer Mantra, yeah, it's cool. - [[TonyC]]

Revision as of 09:04, 3 April 2010

Blood Opera Style by garrisod

Background

The Starling was once a brilliant composer and performer prized throughout the Hundred Kingdoms for his passionate voice. Beloved by the aristocracy and peasantry alike, the Starling even had his own theater, presented to him as gift by the king of his realm, who considered him like an adopted son. However, after many years of royal patronage, the Starling’s luck changed: the new ruling Prince, a middling and petty stepson of the old king, hated the Starling for the acclaim he had received and burned with jealousy over the old king’s favor. In the middle of the night, the Prince’s thugs burned down the Starling’s theater with firewands and slit the Starling’s throat, leaving him for dead. While lying in the theater waiting for death to take him, the Starling Exalted; although the tales diverge as to whether he was a Solar or a Deathknight, for he easily could have served both. What is known is that as he crawled across that bloody floor and clutched a discarded flame piece, and there he swore his revenge; at that moment, supposedly this entire form of martial arts came to him in an epiphany. He called it the Bloody Opera, for although he would never sing again, he would compose a new symphony for his enemies, using firewands as his instruments.


Training

Blood Opera Style can be learned by any Celestial Exalt. Due to its perilous nature, few study it unless they seek great vengeance. Occasionally a Celestial learns the fundamentals of this style upon their Exaltation, if it occurs during a great tragedy or massacre; those who seek to learn it out of calculation must find a practitioner who will teach it - typically a demon, Deathlord or god of vengeance. There is a soulsteel-forged flame piece that whispers the secrets of the Blood Opera to any Exalt who wields it, although not all of its advice can be trusted, and it will surely tangle its bearer into greater affairs of bloodshed.


Weapons and Armor

Blood Opera Style treats firewands, flame pieces, maggot casters, the artifact versions of these weapons, and any other percussive, slug or flame-throwing missile weapons in Creation as in-form weapons. This style can also be used unarmed. This style is also compatible with light armor.


Charms

Spiteful Trigger Kata

Cost: 3m
Duration: Turn
Type: Reflexive
Min. Ability: 1
Min Essence: 2
Prereqs: None

The Prince’s lieutenant found the Starling in a pool of blood on the burning stage, out to insure that the Starling was dead. “I had hoped for a duel, and instead I find you on the ground, bleeding from a dozen wounds, an inch from death.” The Starling slowly looked up at lieutenant, wiggling his trigger finger. “I am an inch from death, but I think this inch will be enough to finish you,” he whispered, leveling his flame piece. A shot rang out, and the Starling smiled.

For the rest of the current round, the Exalt focuses through his pain to aim with stunning clarity. The Exalt’s unarmed or firearm attacks do not suffer wound, stun, or knockdown penalties.


Harvester of Sorrow Prana

Cost: 3m
Duration: Scene
Type: Simple
Min. Ability: 2
Min Essence: 2
Prereqs: Spiteful Trigger Kata

The Starling slowly rose to his feet, the lieutenant’s body still smoking on the floor. “I thought I would never feel joy again,” thought the Starling, “but if I am right, I have at least found a facsimile, and one more easily gained.”

The Exalt unconsciously exploits and collects the Essence released by the deaths of his opponents. Until the end of the scene, each time the Exalt kills a target with a martial arts attack, he gains motes of Essence equal to his permanent Essence.


Blood Opera Form

Cost: 6m
Duration: Scene 
Type: Simple
Min. Ability: 4
Min Essence: 2
Prereqs: Harvester of Sorrow Prana

The Starling held his flame pieces up to the night sky and whispered a song of retribution with his ruined voice. “Fate has ruined my perfect instrument; take instead these imperfect weapons,” he called to the gods, “and make them perfect for my task.” His Essence flowed through the flame pieces, working the mechanisms at incredible speed and loading the chambers with pure hatred.

For the remainder of the scene, the Exalt gains a bonus to his Initiative equal to his martial arts rating, and the rate of his firearms are increased to his permanent Essence rating. If the Exalt dual-wields two firearms at once, his rate is calculated as the sum of the rate of both weapons, rather than by the rate of the greater one. As a reflexive action, the Exalt can spend a single mote of Essence at any time to reload a firearm he wields with the appropriate ammunition.


Bottomless Suffering Dedication

Cost: None
Duration: Permanent 
Type: Permanent
Min. Ability: 4
Min Essence: 2
Prereqs: Blood Opera Form

The Starling looked over his cuts and burns and bruises; he realized that they were not an impediment to his vengeance, but the price he would willingly pay for it.

The Exalt has learned to endure even when his wounds are most dire. He gains a number of additional (–4) Health Levels equal to his Conviction rating.


Cut Down the Paper Men

Cost: 5m
Duration: Scene
Type: Simple
Min. Ability: 4
Min Essence: 2
Prereqs: Blood Opera Form

The Starling approached the Prince’s palace, and was stopped by a battalion of guards. He surveyed the dozens before him. “You are inconsequential to my goal,” he said, “and stand in my way and your deaths will be equally without consequence.”

The Exalt’s Essence subtly alters the field of combat, hexing those who fate deems unworthy. All Extras have a single health level for the remainder of the scene.


Blood-Filled Grin

Cost: 4m
Duration: Instant
Type: Reflexive
Min. Ability: 4
Min Essence: 2
Prereqs: Blood Opera Form

The battalion filled the Starling’s body with arrows, but he did not stagger and fall. The Starling flashed a predatory smile, and the battalion was filled with fear; they knew they could not stop him, and they dropped their weapons and fled.

The Exalt fixes a gaze of confident disdain on one of his opponents, and the more wounded the Exalt is, the more terrifying the implication that he cannot be killed. The target of his gaze suffers a penalty this round to their attack successes equal to the Exalt’s wound penalty, prior to any charm effects. If this reduces an attack’s successes to zero or less, the target drops their current weapon and must make a Valor check or flee the scene.


Painkiller Mantra

Cost: 6m, 1w
Duration: Scene 
Type: Simple
Min. Ability: 5 
Min Essence: 3
Prereqs: Bottomless Suffering Dedication

Arrows pierced him and blows rained upon his body, but as each guard fell, the Starling felt no pain, only growing satisfaction. Each corpse behind him only increased his resolve.

Every time the Exalt kills a target, he gains a temporary –4 health level. These levels are damaged after –2 HLs but before any remaining permanent –4 HLs. The Exalt gain any number of these temporary health levels, but can have no more undamaged temporary health levels than his Willpower rating. At the end of the scene, these levels disappear, whether they were damaged or not; the damage taken with these HLs does not roll over to permanent HLs but is instead negated at the end of the scene. Temporary HLs provided by this charm can't be used to power charms that require HL costs, but the Exalt may take one health level of damage as a reflexive action to ignore all wound penalties for the current round of combat, using either temporary or regular HLs for this ability.


Deadly Staccato

Cost: 6m, 1w
Duration: Instant 
Type: Extra Action
Min. Ability: 5 
Min Essence: 3
Prereqs: Cut Down the Paper Men

Starling surveyed the remains of the battalion, men who lay wounded or had lost their courage, broken but still barring his way by their presence, refusing to let him pass. “I no longer have time for these games,” thought Starling.

The Exalt finds a grim rhythm to his shots that grows faster and faster with each foe he takes down. The Exalt makes an attack, and if the attack kills its target, the Exalt may immediately make an additional attack at his full attack pool against another target; the Exalt can continue making attacks as long as each results in a kill, up to a number of attacks equal to his permanent Willpower.


Vengeance Loses Patience With Trickery

Cost: 4m, 1w
Duration: Instant
Type: Supplemental
Min. Ability: 5
Min Essence: 3
Prereqs: Blood-Filled Grin

Finally the Starling reached the Prince’s inner sanctum, where he was stopped by a lone figure, one that also wielded flame pieces and had a glowing brand on his forehead. “I understand your grievance, little artist,” said the man, “but I have taken his coin, and I will not let you pass.” The man burned with Essence and his form flickered and flowed like blood; Starling felt the urge to approach him like a moth to the flame. “No man can strike me, and my firewands never miss; I shall end you.” Starling shrugged and aimed. “As an expert, I judge your theatrics wanting.”

The Exalt makes an attack that ignores the wards and defenses of Essence. His attack can be parried or dodged by normal means, but no charm short of a Perfect Defense can augment or provide a defense to this attack. However, the Essence-defying nature of this attack also prevents the Exalt from affecting this attack with his own charms; this charm cannot be comboed with any charms that supplement or enhance his attack.


Chord of Cruel Mercy

Cost: 6m, 1w, 1h
Duration: Instant
Type: Simple
Min. Ability: 5 
Min Essence: 3
Prereqs: Painkiller Mantra, Vengeance Loses Patience With Trickery, Deadly Staccato

The lone man’s shots flew straight and true, faster than lightning and burning with terrible flares of Essence. Starling felt unbearable pain as every inch of his body caught aflame, bringing him to his knees. And yet, he lived, bolstered by the souls of the lesser men he had put down in his path; he lifted his flame piece and steadied his shot. “You think to stop me with death, but I will show you agony.”

The Blood Opera grandmaster does not carry the knowledge of fiery fates that is so prized by the Righteous Devils, nor can he steady his hand or guide his shots as they can; but he knows suffering, and he knows how to deal it. If the Exalt’s attack hits his target, after damage is rolled, but before it is applied, add a number of health levels of damage equal to the amount required to damage the target's last -4 health level checkbox.


After a long while, Starling again rose from the ground, and saw that his opponent was still twitching on the floor. Starling gently pulled the orichalcum dragon-sigh wands from the fallen man’s hands, and placed his ear against the closed door the man had guarded; he could hear the Prince blubbering with terror behind it. It was time to teach the Prince to sing.


Comments

I guess this was sort of what I wanted when I heard there was a gunslinging martial art in the Player's Guide.  :) My design priorities were to make more of a martial arts tree, not a gunslinging archery tree (love ya Righteous Devil, but that's what you are) that was more about giving and receiving lots of shots rather than making the One Transcendent Shot that Solar archery does so well. Also, as the name gives away, I received a lot of inspiration from Hong-Kong style gun-fu, centering on lots of bullets, total bloodbaths and tragic stories. My hunch is that this is a weaker style toe-to-toe than Righteous Devil, similar to comparing a MA to the Archery tree (dedicated solar combat skills will always be better than an equivalent MA); however, all this playing around with health levels is probably terribly unbalancing.

"All shall dread the practitioners of the Blood Opera, for they know no fear; they can withstand any wound with terrible determination, and they can destroy an army to have their vengeance!"

-garrisod

My only question about this style is, why would you need a charm to make extras weaker, they are pathetic enough as it is. - Blackedout

Thanks for looking it over, Blackedout! My primary reason for Cut Down the Paper Men mechanically was to allow practitioners to easily hose extras no matter how much armor they were wearing, by making ping damage (essentially) an instant KO. This is not such a big deal when using a firewand, but with a flame piece it can be - especially because Blood Opera doesn't have a dice adder or damage-doubler, like Righteous Devil. It's true that extras are easy to kill; this makes them EXTRA killable. Stacked with Painkiller Mantra and Harvester of Sorrow, extras in the dozens aren't so much a threat as they are pac-man pellets of delicious HLs and motes. A Blood Opera practitioner should -relish- a bunch of mortals after him, because it just makes him more powerful for the boss battle coming up. Also, Deadly Staccato, the extra-action charm, requires kills, not hits, to function, so Cut Down the Paper Men helps streamline it so you don't accidentally graze a guy in lamellar and lose your combo. You're right, though, in that it's still probably the most unnecessary scene-long in the tree (most of the time) and likely the last one you'd put up.

-garrisod

I really, like like the feel of VLPwT. But the effect feels very, very wrong to me. When you unleash a combo, you shouldn't be punishing people for using defensive charms. Perhaps this wording "Only a perfect charm is enough to protect the target of this charm. Any non-perfect charms have no effect against this attack." This still leaves them with their normal pools, but means blowing 1 mote for GEB doesn't doom them to being hit. Also, any charm which requires a perfect defense, even in such an odd way, should probably have a WP cost. - Scrollreader

Also, on CoCM I'd change the wording to "After damage is rolled, but before it is applied, add a number of health levels of damage equal to the amount required to bring the target to incapacitated. Otherwise, you risk seriously impinging on effects like the twilight anima and starmetal armor, which are designed to be lifesavers and damage reducers and cheapen their value un-nessecarily. - Scrollreader

Thanks, Scrollreader! I was a little troubled myself with the wording of those charms and your suggestions are definitely in the spirit of what I was trying to do, so I'll make those changes now. VLPwT now bars imperfect charm defenses but is not Perfect against a charm-assisted regular defense, and was changed from 6m to 4m 1w, and CoCM mechanically adds damage levels rather than automatically setting it to incap. Also, CoCM is Simple, not supplemental - I can't believe I didn't catch that earlier. Also, I was unsure whether CoCM was right (now) for a Essence 3 charm or if it needed an Essence 4 requirement - Caress of a 1000 Hells in Righteous Devil is a capstone at Ess3, and I would say they're about on similar power levels, but then again I worry about gunslingers taking out gods left and right, with a VLPwT/CoCM/Kiss of the Sun Concentration combo... but I guess Ahlat deserves it, for depending on Principle of Motion like that... and it's probably no worse than the Azure Abacus of One Thousand Hells combo that RD can put out. Thanks again for the help! -garrisod

Another question: Why limit any of these charms to firearms at all? With the exception of the form, you could just easily substitute 'unarmed martial arts attack' for each of your charms, it would still make sense, and it would mean the martial artist is competant without a firearm, if not quite as impresive. This is key, if you want this MA to be viable in the long term, as high essence combat, for the martial artist, is usually unarmed (between sidereal styles and the variances of form weapons) and depends on combining styles for awesome combos. (Which you could only do with Righteous Devil, as you've written things.) - Scrollreader

That's actually something I've been wondering about, and the first draft of the style did include unarmed attacks as in-form; I was thinking of this as a Righteous Devil guns-only alternative, but it's really more robust than that. Now that I look at it, I'm more worried about Righteous Devil combos (particularly easy ones, like Kiss of the Sun and the damage doubler) because taking the superior charms in RD with the superior form charm in Blood Opera seem much more imbalancing than taking Blood Opera and than using another "regular" MA. So let's say we do allow unarmed for each charm - in fact, I'll do that now. Hmmm... I like this. Especially thinking about an Abyssal Hungry Ghost/Blood Opera MAist... oooh. Another unintended side effect to this is that Cut Down the Paper Men is not that good a charm when you've got firearms, but is a very nice charm when you're making totally unarmed attacks. Thanks, Scrollreader! Very cool. - garrisod

I like the imagery of this style, though I'm unsure of the effects of a few charms in the style

  • Painkiller Mantra - this charm needs some kind of a cap on the number of extra HL earned by killing people I feel, even if it's only in terms of 'number unchecked at any time' because otherwise, well, consider an SMA master and a realm legion, suddenly you're talking 5000 HL or Cantata of Empty Voices and city, and you have one million HL, which is perhaps just a tiny bit extreme.
  • Vengeance Loses Patience With Trickery - This charm I'm not sure about, it seems to punish good combat strategy (the use of reflexive and persistant defences) too much. I guess it would not be so bad outside of PC, but if you have a limited number of splits you can make but ...
  • Chord of Cruel Mercy - I don't think instant death effects are appropriate at the CMA level. I know there are a few effects in the game that get around it, and I know that technically you're just reducing them to incap, but again aside from a few edge cases, Incap = kill.

I also get a lingering feeling it might be too good against extras (and more importantly, using extras to kill important people) than it should be.

My thoughts on the style anyway. - Kraken

  • Harvester of Sorrow Prana - do you think that there should be something saying that a martial arts attack has to be what killed the opponent? Otherwise, you can be killing people with a Death of Obsidian Butterflies and still regain tons of Essence.
  • I have no problem with Vengeance Loses Patience With Trickery. The only reason that reflexive and persistant defenses are considered good combat strategy is because they come with very little opportunity cost (either your charm for the turn or your charm for the turn in exchange for dodges or parries the whole scene). This still gives you a chance to use a charm-based defense, though it has to be a perfect one.
  • I also don't think that the maximum number of health levels that Painkiller Mantra gives needs to be capped. Yes, there are some obscene things which can kill hundreds of people in a few rounds. That'll last for one battle, if you can pull it off in the first place. I have trouble imagining that someone casting Celestial Circle Sorcery after activating one or more simple scene-long charms won't be targeted post-haste, and those who are capable of wiping out 5000 legionnaires while dealing with the PCs are frightening enough opponents that this style won't affect the battle too much more. I assume that you have to take a lethal health level for this charm to work, but it should be specified. Maybe the restriction that an MA attack has to kill the thing for it to give an extra health level, to address some of Kraken's concerns with this charm and keep the flavor?
  • I don't know whether the pinnacle charm is suitable for Celestial Level Martial Arts. It is a simple charm, so it's coming in without any other actions. If the target can dodge or parry it, you're in trouble (unless you have your own persistent defenses). I would suggest increasing its prerequisites to Essence 4, though, because it is a very powerful ability.

Overall, I really like the style, and have an NPC that would fit this quite nicely. - HeridFel


Kraken, Heridfel, thanks for looking things over - I still think of this style as being in the draft stage, and some of these charms have some strange effects that I'm not sure are balanced. Painkiller Prana, as currently written, doesn't have a cap - and this could mean (with the Cantata, which, btw, is a totally beautiful use of this charm that I hadn't thought of yet) the one jillion HLs issue. It is, however, scene-long, meaning that once the MAist loses his dramatic momentum he's back to square one. I'm still not sure if essential-invulnerability (well, except from Chord of Cruel Mercy, which was designed to counter it) is a good thing, even if it is for a single scene. Fix for now: a cap on undamaged Prana HLs equal to MAist's Willpower at any one time. This way, the MAist can gain more of these as he needs them over the scene by killing more extras, but any single instance of mass slayage can (at max) only give (Willpower)HLs - hence keeping our Cantata sorcerer from getting invincible. Having six to eight extra HLs, on top of the Bottomless Suffering three to five, should be plenty, especially when you can just whack a few mortals to get some more.

Harvester of Sorrow: Yes, I've gone ahead and made it MA attacks, I don't really care for the Obsidian Butterflies/got all my Essence back exploit. However, as Painkiller Prana is farther down the tree and is limited above, I'll leave that one open for sorcerous kills. Thanks for finding it, HeridFel!

Vengeance Loses Patience: Well, it's already only a poor man's Perfect, and it's definitely inferior to Azure Abacus, which really is a perfect attack, and for the same cost - I think I'll leave it for now. Vengeance's only real advantage over the Abacus is being Supplemental.

Chord of Cruel Mercy: Also been wondering about whether it's too much, and I would rather have an instant-cripple rather than an instant-kill here. What if instead of taking damage to incapacitated, it was enough damage to damage the target's last -4 HL? It would still speed up Blood Opera duels (by chewing through the Painkiller Prana) but it would leave the victim with more options then "cough, cough, die". Also, this makes me feel better about keeping it Essence 3.

I'll go ahead and make these changes. Thanks for your input! -garrisod

To HeridFel : Well, yes, I'd certaily assume they would be targetted post-haste, but they would then have several thousand or more Health Levels, which should just be enough for them to weather the storm that is sure to come their way ...

Now more generally ... As for Reflexive defences, I would say that at Essence 3, Reflexive and Scenelong charm defences are practically the only way in which opponents fight, unless you are an obscene pool lunar or a DB caught without friends. Knocking out all bar perfects is a much bigger effect than I think a CMA should have at Essence 3. It not only drammatically reduces the dice you have to defend with, but also cuts down on your offence too, either by costing you many motes for perfects or requiring you to devote many split actions to defence.

For Cord of Cruel Mercy, I'm not sure that even that is a good balance. Consider the the other 'Instant Death' effect we see in MA: Soul Mastery from the pinnacle of the Wood Dragon Style. This is at the top of a longer tree, it's an Ess 4 charm, it has to be invoked before the attack is made (which costs you a turn of action) and when it hits, it only kills with a contested roll. Your charm is Ess 3, and kills/nearly kills with merely the requirement of a hit.

Looking at Azure Abacus, I'm not sure that that charm should be considered for balance purposes at all. It is, at Ess 3, in addition to requiring a wp roll to even consider defence, both undodgeable and unparriable, excepting about 5 effects in the game I can think of, only 2 of which are really what might called common within the game world. Admittedly it is Simple, but still. I guess that is an arguement for another page really, but anyway, I don't think it should really be considered for balance. - Kraken

Well, I like it. So there. --MF

Some people is worried about Vengeance Loses Patience With Trickery. I can see their point but don't feel strongly about it. How about making it work both ways? That is, any attack that is enhanced with VLPWT can't be enhanced except with other Perfect charms? So if the defender don't get persistents, the attacker don't get dice adder either. - TonyC

I think Painkiller Mantra's extra HL should be limited further. Right now technically you could use the temporary HL to pay the HL costs of various charms. I think that throws charm balance out of whack. Charm costs are motes, willpower, and HL. Of this, HL is the most expensive and you can see in the main book that charms with HL cost are usually quite powerful. I suggest adding the wording "temporary HL can't be used to power charms that requires HL cost." - TonyC

Hmmm... I like where you're going with this, TonyC. I think I will make the change to Vengeance Loses Patience, so it can't be exploited with attack charms. As for Painkiller Mantra, you've got a point about HL expenditures, how about "temporary HL can't be used to power charms that require HL costs, except for the Painkiller Mantra itself." - garrisod

I was actually thinking VLPWT could be enhanced, but only with Perfects (Perfect vs. Perfect, lesser charms need not apply) but no charm is fine too. As Pain Killer Mantra, yeah, it's cool. - TonyC