Difference between revisions of "LorienFeanturi/Microeconomy"

Revision as of 09:04, 3 April 2010

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Checklist

• Reasons - done
• Exchange for Nexus - done
• Resource ranks - open for debate
• Prices explanation - to do
• Price listings for Nexus - to do
• In depth economy - to do
• Trade ratios - to do
• Suggestions? Add below

Intro while under construction

Disclaimer - DS has pointed out that Discussions/Resources has already been created. Go there too. Also, the numbers here need serious playtesting. Suggestions are given a warm, loving home full of tasty consideration and fun-loving humility.

The system works like so - each Resource ranking gets a relative starting income (suggestions listed, of course ST has discretion). This is mainly for starting equipment - property and workplace equipment is probably something the ST should work out. Similarly, there are two income ranges for each ranking. The first is the income assuming the character actively engages in craft, trade, labour, etc. The second assumes that the character can not actively participate because of travel, quest or marauding legions of undead. If the business is left to run unattended, the monthly income is diminished. Long-term absences can bring this second total down further. These are businesses or jobs that the character has at the start of the game.

The other two figures are suggestions for resources that can be liquidated in the short term and long term, from selling of possessions, eliminating costs, etc. The former may or may not reduce the character's effective Resource ranking, although repeated attempts at this can be costly. The latter almost certainly reduces the amount of income the character can earn (ie, lose 1 or more points of Resources).

For all of this to make sense, the price listings must be included. An example is below for now. In general, there are 4 tiers of prices which roughly fall between the Resource ranks. A character at a given rank can afford the tier below with regularity, while the tier above is an occasional treat or considered to be enough of a dire necessity that it exhausts his ability to make other purchases. I feel that this represents the income substitution effect (you stop buying inferior goods when your income rises) better than the old system.

So...

Resources

My basic exchange rates in Nexus\\ 1sp = 1 util\\ 1gp = 10sp = 10 utils\\ 1jp = 25gp = 250 utils\\

Resource 0

• Start: 2-3 utils (2-3sp)
• Active Income: 0
• Passive Income: 0
• ST Liquidation: 0
• LT Liquidation: 0

Resource 1

• Start: 50-100 utils (5-10gp)
• Active Income: 6-9 utils (6-9sp)
• Passive Income: 0
• ST Liquidation: 30-40 utils (3-4gp)
• LT Liquidation: 0

Resource 2

• Start: 200-350 utils (20-35gp)
• Active Income: 30-40 utils (3-4gp)
• Passive Income: 1-5 utils (1-5sp)
• ST Liquidation: 50-70 utils (5-7gp)
• LT Liquidation: 250 utils (1jp)

Resource 3

• Start: 400-550 utils (40-55gp)
• Active Income: 70-100 utils (7-10gp)
• Passive Income: 30-50 utils (3-5gp)
• ST Liquidation: 500-750 (2-3jp)
• LT Liquidation: 1750-2000 utils (7-8jp)

Resource 4

• Start: 1000-1250 utils (4-5jp)
• Active Income: 500-750 utils (2-3jp)
• Passive Income: 400-500 utils (40-50gp)
• ST Liquidation: 6250 utils (25jp)
• LT Liquidation: 17500-22500 utils (70-90jp)

Resource 5

• Start: 2250-3250 utils (9-13jp)
• Active Income: 1250+ utils (5+jp)
• Passive Income: 1000+ utils (4+jp)
• ST Liquidation: 10000 utils (40jp)
• LT Liquidation: 25000+ utils (100+jp)

Prices

As states above, here are the general rules for prices. I'll eventually make a seperate page for the "complete" list of prices. For now, I'll use an example with food. For the record, consistent costs such as food, maintainence and labour will have the period cost listed.

Food per week

1. 1-2 utils
2. 4-5 utils
3. 10-20 utils
4. 40-50 utils

A Resources 1 character would have to spend almost all of his money to afford subpar daily nutrition. Accumulating capital is difficult. A Resource 2 character could eat decently on a regular basis, or eat less than decently and save up some coin. A Resource 3 character could eat decently with no difficulty, or eat a hearty meal every so often and indulge himself. A Resource 4 character could eat well daily and even occasionally serve supersize Thanksgiving-type portions. A Resource 5 character could easily eat himself to obesity, throwing a grand banquet every few weeks to show off his largesse.

You might ask where a Resource 0 character fits in. Well, a character with 0 resources has 0 resources. He is starving, and must steal his food if he wants to survive. Tough luck, you bastard min/maxers.

/PriceList is now under construction.

Comments

DS asks his egocentric question for the day- have you read any of the madness I've been talking to myself about on Discussions/Resources? And how did you come up with your Active vs Passive incomes? And couldn't someone have a passive income at Resources 2? A modestly successful owner of a small plantation, for instance Finally, why not use a strict decimal system as an OOC simplicity, even if IC people are trading 1 piece of gold for 25 pieces of silver? After all, in the abstract, wealth just represents the expectation of the ability to gain a limited number of material goods and services at a later date. DS

Sidenote: I really like the division between Active and Passive income. I may have to idly think of a way to incorporate it into my stuff :)

My ego apologizes to yours, and humbly offers up a chunk of its lovehandles. I haven't read your stuff - in all honesty, I'm a part-time contributor who got sucked in so he could post his grapples for his friends. I don't frequent the site often, and when I do, I mostly look for my friends' stuff. I'll be sure to check it out.\\ Active vs. Passive incomes - I tended to envision these in terms of crafts shops. Come up with your own figures - I've actually overestimated these at the bequest of a friend. The ones I use are different, but they tend to work with the pricing system.\\ As for the conversion issue - go for it. You're right, the value of mediums of exchange lies with expectation. There's a caveat in the exalted system, in that the "medium" is in this case a commodity with a market value, so it's not quite like paper money. Make it all base 10 would be my suggestion. I wanted jade to be more rare, increasingly more rare than gold relative to silver. I wanted a peasant's eyes to light up when you pull a jade coin out of your pouch then look around disdainfully when he shyly mentions he can't make change. I was hoping to contribute a system more than specific numbers. I'll need to play around a lot more before I get those right anyway. And it would be lovely if you wanted to help. .:smiles:. ~LorienFeanturi~

I realize I also never addressed your Resources 2 question: I tend to think of the owner of a successful business, workshop, plantation, etc. as being at Resources 3. They own the property, the capital and pay the labour, without necessarily having to do any work themselves. In a feudal system, I always saw these people as being one step below the gentry. A Resources 2 character might be a manager for a plantation, own a smaller farm that he has to work himself, run a one-man smithing show or a journeyman craftsman. He's only one step above a poor wage labourer (Resources 1). I think this is just a perception difference, though, of no real consequence. ~LorienFeanturi

Thank you so much for this, Lorien. It's quite helpful, and I can't wait for your macroeconomics course. - Morpheus

While I can see what you're trying to do and why you're trying to do it, I think you're going about it in slightly overcomplicated way. Wouldn't it be easier to just say that Jade Talons are like Gold Bricks (an excellent way to invest resources, not very useable) and that Jade Scrip are just like early Bank Notes, while Jade coin are more of the same, but with minute minute amounts of Jade in the alloy, and thus inherently more valuable. Also, I'm not clear on your scaling. For sake of clarity, while you're laying out the resources plan, it'd be best to have a single denominations of wealth that has no direct relation to in-game currency (Like "utils"). Maybe if you used this to create the levels one and zero for the background "resources" you can derive a rough function that translates levels of resources into qunatities of wealth that can be divied up in different ways (invested resources that produce scheduled income, frozen resources that act as cash on hand, etc).

Or maybe it's been too long since I've thought seriously about microeconomics. - EJGRgunner

I considered your first point, then decided against it. It would certainly work. I decided against it because I'm trying to do two things: fix the entire pricing system at the same time I fix the currency backing issue. The currency issue is more complex than you make it out to be, because these currencies span the entirety of creation. When you consider macro-theory, especially trade, it gets unnecessarily complex. In general you can use silver or jade, or both. There are no other options. One of these backings is heavily regulated, the other is not. And the sticking point is that the two are engaged in passive financial war. Which means that the minting of money is going to occur. Details and details later, the presence of one currency or another in an appropriate region is going to experience a shortage. Which means that its relative price is going to rise, and rise significantly, because we're dealing with a feudal system in which instant transportation is far from reality. A jade shipment might take months to ease a shortage in province. Should, say, the entire South be having serious inflationary issues, jade prices are going to rise. And the Manacle and Coin system is not equipped to deal with this.\\ This system admits its faults from the beginning. Variable prices are a fact of life. It's built in, and doesn't pretend otherwise. It's actually quite simple, assuming I take your second point into account (which i think I will). The difference between your system and mine might be economic trifles, but that doesn't really affect the functionality of the system.\\ Your second point is well taken. DS took that approach, and I might emulate it. Yeehaw.\\ ~LorienFeanturi~

Cool.\\ So... Umm...\\ What's a "util"?\\ ~*~Braydz~*~

I'd hazard a guess that it's a Utility Purchase; that is, a util is the smallest unit of currency that still has much meaning. In American terms, a dollar is a util, although people do find an amazing number of uses for quarters. They also provide an absolute measure of wealth / power that one individual has over another.

As for Resources 0, it's not a litteral 'You have no money!', at least according to Manacle and Coin. Further, Exalted is not a good game to worry about min-maxing in. And frankly, even most beggers could earn a semi-reliable, albiet very small income. Speaking of Manacle and Coin, you didn't mimic their massive jump in available wealth between Resources 2 and 3- was this intentional or an oversight? DS

Resources 0, in my opinion, is the absolute absence of an assured income or sunk capital. You can sit and beg on the streets for a few silver, probably. You could even go steal food and whatnot. Doesn't count as "income" though, and neither necessitates the possession of capital. In contrast, a master thief could start with Resources 3, and have it mostly represent the goods and property he has acquired. If your character has Resources 0, he'll start the game with enough rags to make him decent, perhaps a chipped knife, and little chance of anything else. Just a reminder, these are Background points. Meaning your character, a supernatural being, will not be without resources for long if he or she so chooses. This is just a determinant of the resources, potential and real, of the character in a single instant in time.\\ And the min-maxing thing was rather tongue-in-cheek. I encourage my players to min/max. .:sticks out tongue:.\\ Oh, and the Resource 3 massive jump thing - it was intentional. I determined incomes vs. what I considered to be a basic-services cost for each rank, meaning I tabulated the personal monthly expenditures of a character at a given Resources rank. I then gave them a few extra utils per month. Once I get the prices up there, I can give you a specific breakdown.\\ ~LorienFeanturi~

To clarify what a util is:

In Economics, the amount of enjoyment/usefulness a single person derives from a good/service is called utility, and the amounts of utility anything has are measured in "utils." Basically, though, this is just an inside joke with me and Lorien, because I told him he needed a unit of measurement that wasn't based on converting silver into jade or vice versa. - EJGRgunner

K.\\ Thanks.\\ ~*~Braydz~*~

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