Difference between revisions of "DragonBloodedBrawl/Telgar"

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===== Comments =====
 
===== Comments =====
I'm a bit concerned by ''Light-Drowning Depths''. In the first effect, it raises the cost to activate charms by quite a bit (8 motes per charm, at minimum). Thus, this charm, at its weakest, is nearly an even-sum proposition for the DB: A single charm activation by the opponent makes the war of mote attrition even. Somehow, then, the latter effect of the charm is even more frightening, and against the more powerful Exalt types, at that. Completely shutting down Essence usage of Lunars, Sidereals, and Solars, this prevents nearly all charm usage, including perfect defenses. As with some of Friv's charms the other day, I point out that DB's having ''anything'' strikingly powerful is dangerous, and having something that gets yet ''more'' powerful with respect to Celestial exalts is even more dangerous. I could imagine this as an Essence 6 Terrestrial charm, or even a Essence 4 Solar charm (whose special effects applied to Terrestrials), but the way it's written, it seems vastly too powerful for an Essence 4 DB. The game of "Counter-spelling", which this indulges in, whether it's blatant or not, is a dangerous game that should be avoided at all costs. -- GreenLantern
+
I'm a bit concerned by ''Light-Drowning Depths''. In the first effect, it raises the cost to activate charms by quite a bit (8 motes per charm, at minimum). Thus, this charm, at its weakest, is nearly an even-sum proposition for the DB: A single charm activation by the opponent makes the war of mote attrition even. Somehow, then, the latter effect of the charm is even more frightening, and against the more powerful Exalt types, at that. Completely shutting down Essence usage of Lunars, Sidereals, and Solars, this prevents nearly all charm usage, including perfect defenses. As with some of Friv's charms the other day, I point out that DB's having ''anything'' strikingly powerful is dangerous, and having something that gets yet ''more'' powerful with respect to Celestial exalts is even more dangerous. I could imagine this as an Essence 6 Terrestrial charm, or even a Essence 4 Solar charm (whose special effects applied to Terrestrials), but the way it's written, it seems vastly too powerful for an Essence 4 DB. The game of "Counter-spelling", which this indulges in, whether it's blatant or not, is a dangerous game that should be avoided at all costs. -- [[GreenLantern]]
 
:It only affects Charms you want to activate from that point forward plus it has a one-turn duration and is only effective while the DB controls the clinch. If the DB loses control, the Charm is ineffective. So a Solar retains any persistent Charms and needs only to break the DB's clinch control. And need I remind you that most Perfects can't be used in a Clinch anyway? I have raised it to Essence 5, but I really don't see it being that overbalancing in actual play.  
 
:It only affects Charms you want to activate from that point forward plus it has a one-turn duration and is only effective while the DB controls the clinch. If the DB loses control, the Charm is ineffective. So a Solar retains any persistent Charms and needs only to break the DB's clinch control. And need I remind you that most Perfects can't be used in a Clinch anyway? I have raised it to Essence 5, but I really don't see it being that overbalancing in actual play.  
 
:I fail to see how this engages in a game of "counter-spelling" by which I assume you mean the endless one-upsmanship of "my superperfect beats your perfect! NO! My UBERperfect beats your superperfect!" and so forth. But I just don't see how that applies here. - [[Telgar]]
 
:I fail to see how this engages in a game of "counter-spelling" by which I assume you mean the endless one-upsmanship of "my superperfect beats your perfect! NO! My UBERperfect beats your superperfect!" and so forth. But I just don't see how that applies here. - [[Telgar]]
::As a quick clarify (got to get to work!), the counter-spelling I talk about isn't escalation of perfects - it's the old problem from Magic the Gathering 4th ed, and even this game when PAoC is used - it's when people start having charms that can affect others' charm activation, the target desires a defense. Since there are few-to-no charms (I think none, but could have missed one) that ''defend'' against this type of attack, you need a specialized type of defense, ''or'' the use of a similar charm-inhibiting power. Thus, you have two choices when creating an offensive charm-inhibition effect:  
+
::As a quick clarify (got to get to work!), the counter-spelling I talk about isn't escalation of perfects - it's the old problem from Magic the Gathering 4th ed, and even this game when [[PAoC]] is used - it's when people start having charms that can affect others' charm activation, the target desires a defense. Since there are few-to-no charms (I think none, but could have missed one) that ''defend'' against this type of attack, you need a specialized type of defense, ''or'' the use of a similar charm-inhibiting power. Thus, you have two choices when creating an offensive charm-inhibition effect:  
 
* Create a new type of defense entirely, requiring a 'combat capable' or 'survivable' Exalt to sink yet more points into required abilities, and waste more of their charm slots on that ability
 
* Create a new type of defense entirely, requiring a 'combat capable' or 'survivable' Exalt to sink yet more points into required abilities, and waste more of their charm slots on that ability
 
* Have said 'combat capable' Exalts also obtain charm-inhibition effects, in some sort of endless 'one-upmanship', where each Exalt tries to inhibit the other's charm use (that itself is trying to inhibit the first Exalt's charm use, etc), resulting in rather boring fights where no one is jumping off walls and shooting energy beams, as the instead grunt and strain to keep their magics working. Once one of the contenders manages to shut down the opponent's charm usage, they pretty much have the win, as almost any Exalt ''with'' charms wins against an Exalt without (or with lessened access).
 
* Have said 'combat capable' Exalts also obtain charm-inhibition effects, in some sort of endless 'one-upmanship', where each Exalt tries to inhibit the other's charm use (that itself is trying to inhibit the first Exalt's charm use, etc), resulting in rather boring fights where no one is jumping off walls and shooting energy beams, as the instead grunt and strain to keep their magics working. Once one of the contenders manages to shut down the opponent's charm usage, they pretty much have the win, as almost any Exalt ''with'' charms wins against an Exalt without (or with lessened access).
::Does that help clarify at all? -- GreenLantern
+
::Does that help clarify at all? -- [[GreenLantern]]
  
 
Well, since the defense from this Charm is simply not losing a Clinch roll or not being Clinched in the first place, I don't see why anyone would need a super-special "you can't turn off my Charms" effects. Besides, there are other ways to prevent someone from using Charms. Just clinching them shuts down a huge number of Charms since most Charms can't be used in a Clinch at all.  
 
Well, since the defense from this Charm is simply not losing a Clinch roll or not being Clinched in the first place, I don't see why anyone would need a super-special "you can't turn off my Charms" effects. Besides, there are other ways to prevent someone from using Charms. Just clinching them shuts down a huge number of Charms since most Charms can't be used in a Clinch at all.  
 
Also, this Charm doesn't directly effect other Charms. It simply prevents its victims from being able to spend motes.
 
Also, this Charm doesn't directly effect other Charms. It simply prevents its victims from being able to spend motes.
I see your concerns, but I don't think they'll actually be a problem. Green, Red and White are still viable colors in MtG and they have very limited Counterspelling abilities. They have to deal with their problems in other ways. And, being a Green player, I know several highly effective methods of dealing with those pesky Blues that don't involve countering anything. - [[Telgar]]
+
I see your concerns, but I don't think they'll actually be a problem. Green, Red and White are still viable colors in [[MtG]] and they have very limited Counterspelling abilities. They have to deal with their problems in other ways. And, being a Green player, I know several highly effective methods of dealing with those pesky Blues that don't involve countering anything. - [[Telgar]]
  
 
Upon talking with others and considering the Charm further, I've decided it is a bit much. Now the penalty is only half as stiff and Solars can spend motes again. - [[Telgar]]
 
Upon talking with others and considering the Charm further, I've decided it is a bit much. Now the penalty is only half as stiff and Solars can spend motes again. - [[Telgar]]

Revision as of 09:02, 3 April 2010


Deadly Undertow Grip</b>

 <b>Cost: 1 mote
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Supplemental
 Min Brawl: 2
 Min Essence: 2
 Prereqs: None

The deadliest grasp of the water is the rushing undertow that drags swimmers to their death. Emulating the rushing grip of water a Terrestrial can move while engaged in a clinch. So long as the Terrestrial's Strength + Brawl is higher then that of the other contestant in the clinch the character can move normally without breaking the clinch. Because the clinch is still in effect any movements made by the Terrestrial drag the other contestant along.


Overbearing Fish School</b>

 <b>Cost: 2 motes per additional clincher
 Duration: Special
 Type: Supplemental
 Min Brawl: 3
 Min Essence: 2
 Prereqs: Deadly Undertow Grip, Drowning Embrace

Swarming a single target like pirhannas on a cow a Dragon-Blood and his allies can turn their combined might against a single target and hold or harm creatures normally beyond their power. When the character is making a clinch attempt he can activate this Charm to allow a number of allies up to his Brawl rating to make their own clinch rolls. The clinch attempts of the allies take up a normal action and contribute up to the Charm-user's Brawl + specialties in successes to the primary clincher. Every time a clinch roll is made this Charm must be re-used to allow the other characters to continue helping.


Heart-Stopping Chill</b>

 <b>Cost: 2 motes
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Supplemental
 Min Brawl: 2
 Min Essence: 2
 Prereqs: None

The strikes of the Water Dragon carry with them the freezing cold and deadly touch of the northern oceans. The damage done by this attack is considered Lethal and wounded caused by it will inflict double their normal wound penalty due to shock and frostbite.


Devestating Ripple Cascade</b>

 <b>Cost: 3 motes
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Supplemental
 Min Brawl: 3
 Min Essence: 2
 Prereqs: Heart-Stopping Chill

Blows enhanced by this Charm deal not only their normal damage but send a ripple of devestating force through the target's body to exacerbate the harm already done. As long as the original strike deals at least one Health Level of damage the attacker may roll his Essence in unsoakable damage of the same type as the attack. This damage is seperate from the attack but is not considered an attack of its own.


Blade Deflecting Palm</b>

 <b>Cost: 2 motes
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Reflexive
 Min Brawl: 3
 Min Essence: 1
 Prereqs: None

Hardening his fists with sheathes of ice a Dragon-Blooded brawler can knock away even bladed attacks without fear. This Charm allows an unarmed character to block lethal attacks normally. The parry gains a number of dice equal to the character's brawl score, though this does not provide a reflexive parry.



Fist-Smashing Punch</b>

 <b>Cost: 4 motes
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Reflexive
 Min Brawl: 3
 Min Essence: 2
 Prereqs: Blade Deflecting Palm

Like an inexperienced swimmer suffering a painful belly-flop an unwarry attacker can be wounded by his own strikes against the Dragon-Blooded. When attacked the character may roll a normal unarmed counterattack against his target. This attack deals only half the damage it would normally do but removes 1 damage from what would be dealt to the Dragon-Blood for each success on the roll.


Sudden Glacier Defense</b>

 <b>Cost: 8 motes
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Reflexive
 Min Brawl: 5
 Min Essence: 4
 Prereqs: Fist-Smashing Punch

Calling upon Water in his moment of need, a Black Dragon can call up a wall of ice from the water surrounding him or, in fact, nothing at all. The wall of ice appears between the brawler and his opponent, absorbing much of the force of any blow. The ice melts away after performing its function, leaving a large pool of water. This Charm reduces the number of successes rolled on a single attack against the character by half, rounded up. Sudden Glacier Defense can not be used more then once on a single attack.


Viciously Splashing Salmon</b>

 <b>Cost: 10 motes, 1 willpower
 Duration: One turn
 Type: Reflexive
 Min Brawl: 4
 Min Essence: 4
 Prereqs: Fist-Smashing Punch

Turning an opponent's own attacks against him a Water Dragon unleashes a flury of strikes against anyone who disturbs his body. For every health level of damage inflicted upon him by any given opponent the Dragon-Blood may make a single reflexive attack against that opponent with a dice pool equal to his Brawl + Specialties and a base damage equal to his Strength rating.


Chilling Depths Grasp</b>

 <b>Cost: 3 motes
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Supplemental
 Min Brawl: 3
 Min Essence: 2
 Prereqs: Drowning Embrace

As the Ebon Dragon strikes his enemy they can feel the cold pressure of the ocean wrap around them, crushing their life and binding their arms. For one turn per health level inflicted by the attack this Charm supplements the target acts as if they were underwater, suffering all penalties and limits normally associated with being submerged including a lack of air.


Shattering Ice Grip</b>

 <b>Cost: 4 motes
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Supplemental
 Min Brawl: 4
 Min Essence: 3
 Prereqs: Become the Hammer

After unleashing a chilling strike against his opponent a Water brawler has a distinct advantage: ice shatters. Attacks enhanced by this Charm cause the armor of an opponent to freeze and ice over, making it tough but brittle. The frozen armor adds 3 to its lethal soak but for a number of turns equal to the Dynast's essence it has only half soak against bashing damage. Fire Aspected Terrestrials or others capable of wielding flame can disperse this Charm's effects by activating their anima or any flame-based Charm.


Twisting Current Strike</b>

 <b>Cost: 1 mote per success
 Duration: Instant
 Type: Reflexive
 Min Brawl: 3
 Min Essence: 2
 Prereqs: Shattering Ice Grip

Masters of the feint and misdirection, Ebon Dragons strike with all the mystery of the black depths at their command. By making two or more attacks against a single target they are able to make it impossible for their foe to decide which attacks to block and which to let through. This Charm can only be activated when making multiple attacks against a single foe. After the opponent has rolled his defenses the Dragon-Blood can pay 1 mote per success and transfer successes from one roll to another. No more successes then the Exalted's Essence can be transfered in this way.


Stagnant Ice Clinch</b>

 <b>Cost: 5 motes
 Duration: Special
 Type: Reflexive
 Min Brawl: 4
 Min Essence: 3
 Prereqs: Shattering Ice Grip

A Dragon-Blood versed in the ways of Water can grasp his foes with sheathes of water and ice rather then his own arms, leaving him free to act as he will. This Charm may be activated whenever the Dragon-Blood wins a Clinch control roll. After activating the Charm, the character may release the Clinch and act normally. The loser of the control roll remains Clinched for as many turns as the Dragon-Blood has dots of Brawl. Each turn the Clinched character may attempt normally to free themselves, rolling against the last Clinch roll the Terrestrial made. Because the Dragon-Blooded has abandoned the Clinch to magic, he no longer has the option of doing damage with the Clinch. It simply serves to hold the target in place. This Charm remains active and its cost committed until the clinch expires or the target escapes it.


Light-Drowning Depths</b>

 <b>Cost: 8 motes, 1 willpower
 Duration: One turn
 Type: Supplemental
 Min Brawl: 5
 Min Essence: 4
 Prereqs: Stagnant Ice Clinch, Chilling Depths Grasp

In the true depths of the oceans, no light can survive. The chill waters are black beyond night, any rays of light long since having drowned in their uncaring embrace. Locked in the arms of a Dragon-Blood skilled in this techique the light of an opponent's Essence is likewise unable to shine. When the Dragon-Blood is in control of a clinch, his opponent is subject to a surcharge of the Terrestrial's Essence in motes on all Charms. No anima flare is created by such expenditures and any existing flare of the clinchee is extinguished. Beings who draw their Essence from sources of light such as Fire, the Stars, Moon or Sun are especially effected by this Charm and suffer twice the effects of this Charm.
The Dragon-Blood using this Charm may invoke no other magics as long as he wishes to supress the motes of his foe. Charms already in effect, however, remain in effect for both parties.

Comments

I'm a bit concerned by Light-Drowning Depths. In the first effect, it raises the cost to activate charms by quite a bit (8 motes per charm, at minimum). Thus, this charm, at its weakest, is nearly an even-sum proposition for the DB: A single charm activation by the opponent makes the war of mote attrition even. Somehow, then, the latter effect of the charm is even more frightening, and against the more powerful Exalt types, at that. Completely shutting down Essence usage of Lunars, Sidereals, and Solars, this prevents nearly all charm usage, including perfect defenses. As with some of Friv's charms the other day, I point out that DB's having anything strikingly powerful is dangerous, and having something that gets yet more powerful with respect to Celestial exalts is even more dangerous. I could imagine this as an Essence 6 Terrestrial charm, or even a Essence 4 Solar charm (whose special effects applied to Terrestrials), but the way it's written, it seems vastly too powerful for an Essence 4 DB. The game of "Counter-spelling", which this indulges in, whether it's blatant or not, is a dangerous game that should be avoided at all costs. -- GreenLantern

It only affects Charms you want to activate from that point forward plus it has a one-turn duration and is only effective while the DB controls the clinch. If the DB loses control, the Charm is ineffective. So a Solar retains any persistent Charms and needs only to break the DB's clinch control. And need I remind you that most Perfects can't be used in a Clinch anyway? I have raised it to Essence 5, but I really don't see it being that overbalancing in actual play.
I fail to see how this engages in a game of "counter-spelling" by which I assume you mean the endless one-upsmanship of "my superperfect beats your perfect! NO! My UBERperfect beats your superperfect!" and so forth. But I just don't see how that applies here. - Telgar
As a quick clarify (got to get to work!), the counter-spelling I talk about isn't escalation of perfects - it's the old problem from Magic the Gathering 4th ed, and even this game when PAoC is used - it's when people start having charms that can affect others' charm activation, the target desires a defense. Since there are few-to-no charms (I think none, but could have missed one) that defend against this type of attack, you need a specialized type of defense, or the use of a similar charm-inhibiting power. Thus, you have two choices when creating an offensive charm-inhibition effect:
  • Create a new type of defense entirely, requiring a 'combat capable' or 'survivable' Exalt to sink yet more points into required abilities, and waste more of their charm slots on that ability
  • Have said 'combat capable' Exalts also obtain charm-inhibition effects, in some sort of endless 'one-upmanship', where each Exalt tries to inhibit the other's charm use (that itself is trying to inhibit the first Exalt's charm use, etc), resulting in rather boring fights where no one is jumping off walls and shooting energy beams, as the instead grunt and strain to keep their magics working. Once one of the contenders manages to shut down the opponent's charm usage, they pretty much have the win, as almost any Exalt with charms wins against an Exalt without (or with lessened access).
Does that help clarify at all? -- GreenLantern

Well, since the defense from this Charm is simply not losing a Clinch roll or not being Clinched in the first place, I don't see why anyone would need a super-special "you can't turn off my Charms" effects. Besides, there are other ways to prevent someone from using Charms. Just clinching them shuts down a huge number of Charms since most Charms can't be used in a Clinch at all. Also, this Charm doesn't directly effect other Charms. It simply prevents its victims from being able to spend motes. I see your concerns, but I don't think they'll actually be a problem. Green, Red and White are still viable colors in MtG and they have very limited Counterspelling abilities. They have to deal with their problems in other ways. And, being a Green player, I know several highly effective methods of dealing with those pesky Blues that don't involve countering anything. - Telgar

Upon talking with others and considering the Charm further, I've decided it is a bit much. Now the penalty is only half as stiff and Solars can spend motes again. - Telgar

It would be nice if Stagnant Ice Clinch and Light-Drowning Depths did not constitute an auto-win combo. Perhaps Light-Drowning Depths should be activated in place of doing damage during a clinch. --passengerpigeon

The two charms can't be used together since Light-Drowning Depths doesn't allow other magics to be invoked while it is being used. - Telgar
As written, you can clinch somebody, use Stagnant Ice Clinch immediately, and then activate Light-Drowning Depths once you've let go of them. --p
Hmm. I suppose you can. I have altered Stagnant Ice Clinch to have a Special duration, forbidding the co-activation of the two Charms. - Telgar