Revision as of 04:17, 12 February 2005

Back to AngelWick UserPage.

This page is dedicated to my basic concepts for converting Werewolf: The Apocalypse characters to Lunar Exalted. I've posted the basic idea behind my reasons on my UserPage. I'll get more detailed later.

Mechanics

Werewolf || Lunar Exalted

Attributes convert one-to-one

• Strength || Strength
• Dexterity || Dexterity
• Stamina || Stamina
• Manipulation || Manipulation
• Charisma || Charisma
• Appearance || Appearance
• Intelligence || Intelligence
• Perception || Perception
• Wits || Wits

Abilities convert one-to-one

If more than one, use highest listed, the average, or total. Storyteller holds final ruling.

• Fire Arms || Archery, or these points are lost, re-allocated
• Athletics || Athletics
• Alertness || Awareness
• Brawl || Brawl
• Dodge || Dodge
• Brawl or Kalindo || Martial Arts (Kalindo would also convert into a new MA Charm tree)
• Melee || Melee
• Athletics || Thrown
• Crafts || Craft
• Subterfuge, Streetwise, Empathy || Larceny or Socialize
• Linguistics || Linguistics
• Performance, Expression, leadership || Performance
• Intimidation, Expression, Leadership || Presence
• Drive, Animal Ken || Ride
• Drive || Sail
• Etiquette, Expression || Socialize
• Stealth || Stealth
• Survival, Animal Ken || Survival
• Politics, Law || Bureaucracy
• Investigation, Streetwise, Law, Enigmas || Investigation
• Rituals, Science, Law, Enigmas || Lore
• Medicine, Science || Medicine
• Occult || Occult

Primal-Urge

The Werewolf ability of Primal-Urge doesn't convert exactly but I wanted to reflect its previous usefullness in the converted characters. So, Primal-Urge converts to a Lunar Background that has two very powerful uses:

• It can act like a superfluous "fifth virtue" in the effect that a character can spend a temporary Willpower point to add his/her Primal-Urge rating to ANY Survival-based roll. This can be done only once per roll as long as the character has the Willpower to spend.

• It reduces the Essence cost of Shapeshifting Charms and Body Enhancement Charms. For each point of Primal-Urge the character has, reduce the Essence cost of the above types of Charms by one mote. Essence costs cannot be reduced below zero. For combos involving these charms, roll [Essence + Primal-Urge]. The number of successes indicate the Essence cost discount for that particular use of the combo. (This could also be an alternate overall rule for #2)

Primal-Urge may be raised through role-playing with a training time of [current rating] months and a cost of [current rating x 8] Experience Points.

Backgrounds

• Allies || Keep any survivors. Reduce if necessary.
• Ancestors || Keep it. Can teach others how to do it.
• Contacts || Keep any survivors. Reduce if necessary.
• Fetish || Becomes Artifact.
• Kinfolk || Keep any survivors. May eventually become Followers or even Cult through role-playing.
• Mentor || If the character's Mentor survived, keep it.
• Pure Breed || Keep it. Each point adds an extra die to Social rolls. Pass it on through role-playing.
• Resources || Lost. Earth currency is of no value in Creation. Unless of course some poor sap can be convinced otherwise...
• Rites || Convert any Rites to appropriate Charms or Spells
• Totem || If the Totem survived, keep it. Pass on the knowledge through role-playing.
• "Lunar-Garou" or "Twice Blessed", as I've been calling them, cannot begin with any Lunar Backgrounds. Particularly Renown and Heart's Blood. Since they have no pre-existing reputation with Lunars of Creation nor do they realize that they now possess the ability to shapeshift into numerous types of animals.

Renown to Virtues

Werewolf Renown || Lunar Virtues

• 0.5 x (Honor) rounded up || Compassion
• 0.5 x (Rage) rounded up || Conviction
• 0.5 x (Wisdom) rounded up || Temperance
• 0.5 x (Glory) rounded up || Glory

Normalize to a minimum total of 9 points between all Virtues, including the automatic point in each. Normalizing in this case means, keep adding one point to each Virtue until you don't have an even amout to distribute any more. Then, distribute the remaining points as per usual in Lunar character creation.

Other Stuff

Werewolf stuff || Lunar equivalent

• Shapeshifting || Charms
  • Finding the Spirit's Shape (like all Lunars)
  • Deadly Beastman Transformation x 2 (taking the Horrifying Might gift as one of the first-time gifts, you can get the same bonuses to Strength, Dexterity and Stamina as Crinos form gave)

• Regeneration || Deadly Beastman Transformation Gift:
  • Resilience of Nature

• Ability to use Gifts anytime || Charm
  • Calling Luna's Favor

• Stepping Sideways
  • There is no Umbra in Exalted. Or at the very least, there is no definitive barrier between reality and the spirit world. The Gauntlet level is negligible/indeterminable. Any further access to the Umbra after entering Creation has been cut off, possibly forever. However, the spiritual connections that the Lunar-Garou had did not leave them entirely. Therefore, they begin with the following Charms to reflect this lingering connection
    • Spirit-Scenting technique
    • Pulse of the Invisible

• Specialties
  • Werewolf specialties become a one-point Exalted specialty in the appropriate ability. These may be raised with bonus points. (See below)

• Reknown
  • As mentioned earlier, Lunar-Garou do not have a reputation with the Lunars in Creation. Therefore, any Reknown they once had is lost. They are considered to be Casteless Lunars with no Reknown until they can be tattooed.

• Silver
  • The ill effects of Silver do not fade until the Lunar-Garou recieve their Lunar tattoos. Lunar-Garou suffer one health-level of aggravated damage per hour of the tattooing ceremony. This damage heals normally. Moonsilver counts for the silver rule. After the damage from the tattooing ceremony completely heals, Lunar-Garou no longer suffer ill-effects from silver.

• 0.5 x Gnosis || Permanent Essence
  • Round down with a minimum Essence Rating of 2
  • Alternately, round up instead

• Rage
  • Permanent Rating converts to starting Limit Rating
  • Alternately, 0.5 x Rage (Rounded Up) || starting Limit Rating
  • Temporary Rage points that are left at the time of transformation may be converted into a number of Experience Points equal to how much it would take to gain that level of Rage from a rating of Zero.
  • Alternately, Temporary Rage points that are left at the time of transformation may be added to the first rolled dice action that a newly converted character makes as an Exalt. This is a single-time bonus. These dice must all be rolled at once and this bonus can only be gained once in the new Exalt's lifetime. After converting, these dice never return.
  • A third alternative for Temporary Rage. These points may be used as additional bonus points (assumung that rule is being used) on top of the 15 that are granted upon the conversion. However, these extra points may NOT be used to buy new Abilities or to raise Attributes. This second set of Bonus Points may only be spent on pre-existing Abilities, Flaws, Merits, or Wyld Mutations (recommended).

• Additionally, players of Lunar-Garou must choose a Nature, a Tell, and a Virtue Flaw for their character.

• Any Charms the Lunar-Garou recieve include any prerequisite Charms that are required.
  • Alternately, the prerequisite Charms are NOT included and must be purchased in the normal fashion before these "free" Charms may be used

• Also, Lunar-Garou must learn to use their mystical abilities all over again. This is because of the metaphysical changes that occur during the transition into the new world. These changes still need to be "fleshed out". As a result, this means that just because they have a given Charm, doesn't mean that they can use it right away.

• Any gifts the Garou had convert into appropriate Lunar Gifts or Charms. Barring the requirements for how many Gifts a Lunar can have and how many times he can take Deadly Beastman Transformation. Though this limit may be "bent" if the Storyteller thinks it is a logical conversion.

• The only limit on how many Charms a Lunar-Garou can have is dependant on how many are needed to make an accurate conversion. A Lunar-Garou can have as many Charms as are needed to make an accurate conversion regardless of whether or not he has the minimum requirements for those Charms. HOWEVER, those Charms may NOT be used until the minimum requirements are met. Even then, they still have to relearn how to use them using the new methods and magic of Creation. This translates to the Exalted training times and perhaps a discounted expenditure of Experience. I would suggest half of normal, rounded up.

• As an optional rule, since such conversions will more than likely never be exact, the Storyteller might want to allow characters to spend some Bonus Points according to the Exalted system in order to allow for some artistic "smoothing of the edges." I would suggest 15 Bonus Points like all other Exalted. If you're playing with Merits and Flaws, I would suggest taking some of these as well.

Options

• ultra-powerful creatures enter creation from the World of Darkness and are converted into their closest equivalents. Old powers are converted into equivalent Charms, Gifts, and spells, including (or not including) their prerequisites. These creatures slowly relearn their old powers in a new system of magic and, even though they may be less experienced, become more powerful than the natural Exalted.

• or, we could have it that they get the equivalent powers, but NOT the prerequisites. AND they can't use those powers until they learn the prerequisites. The mechanical conversion would go closer to a starting Exalted character. So when all prerequisites are met, then the old powers resurface. This method reflects the need for more experience in relearning how to do everything. Now, this method would only work for things that convert to Charms and Spells and such. Anything that converts to a Background would take effect right away. For example, Primal-Urge converts from a Werewolf Ability to a Lunar Background as detailed above. Ancestors would stay the same. You get the point.

Notes

1) Well, my whole idea behind this would be that WoD characters would stumble upon Creation in one way or another after WoD ended. I do know that the power-base is going to be thrown for a loop if a WoD character gets converted into an Exalted character. I've already discovered that in my first few attempts to convert a Garou into a Lunar. I'm also thinking that not everything will convert. Some things won't convert at all. Other things may get altered. For example, the Werewolf Gift of Sense Wyrm doesn't make much sense in an Exalted setting. So, some stuff will probably end up being either restricted or dropped altogether. Alternately, these Werewolf Gifts that don't convert directly may become the basis for new Charm trees. Sense Wyrm might convert to a Sense Corruption or Sense Death Charm and could be the root of a tree made for the purposes of battling the forces of this new Malfeas (Demons) or of the Underworld.

To balance some things out a bit, I'm thinking something like this: WoD characters who manage to find access to the umbra or a portal or a gate of some kind will get to travel to the world in which Exalted takes place. Their equivalent patron spirits will recognize them for what they are and what they could become and brings their respective blessings and/or curses of exaltation upon them. They end up eventually coming accross their natural Exalted cousins, interact, react, etc. I'm almost thinking of a "chosen one who needs to rediscover their old potential" type of concept.

Any WoD characters would also get converted as closely as possible to a /starting/ Exalted character with a few tweaks to the system. They would still get the same number of starting Charms as a regular Exalted get. They would also get the Charm-equivalents of their old WoD powers. However, if they don't have all the prerequisite Charms, abilities, and Essence ratings, then they have to build back up to what they used to be.

The reason for all this is because the conversion into an Exalted puts the WoD characters through mystical, magical and metaphysical changes. They won't automatically understand how the "new system" works. For example, in my upcoming Vampire conversions, the bloodpool will be getting converted into the Essence rating. Vampires will not automatically understand how Essence works, just that it is different from using blood. It is for this reason that they may very well not be able to use all of their old Disciplines right away. And even if they could, they might not work the same way or even have the same effect.

2) Ideas and suggestions given by a friend

If a vampire or a werewolf or mage got sucked to an alternate univers like exalted for whatever reason, you need to look at the root of their powers.

Vampires' powers mostely come from their blood. As long as they have a way to replenish their blood supply, all their powers, for the most part, would work fine. (edit by AngelWick: That brings us to the Vampire to Abyssal conversions I have in the works.)

Werewolves on the other hand, get their powers from totem spirits. It would be up to you whether or not the totem spirit's powers make it to the alternate dimension, etc. All the Gifts would have to be analyzed individually. For the ones that rely on Gnosis, I would say they wouldn't work, as Gnosis is the spirit of the earth. If your not on Earth... but perhaps there could be an alternate source of gnosis. (edit by AngelWick: Yeah, Essence...)

As far as Mage's, their powers are based on there ability to affect reality with their will. Depending on the mage's particular paradigm, the Exalted world could severly hinder their magic abilities. A Iteration-X technomancer would not have as easy a time as a Verbena, or a Void Engineer. I think a Void Engineer would be right at home in the Exalted world, as they seek out strange new worlds and civilizations, and boldly go where no man has gone before... oh wait, that was Kirk and Spock... but you get the idea. Though once a mage adapts, and relearns how reality works, he could re-buy his sphere levels at a reduced cost. And Paradox would be another intresting consideration. (edit by AngelWick: yeah well, Paradox in Exalted affects Sidereals rather harshly. Though to say that a Mage converts smoothly to a Sidereal would be like saying a Borg adapts smoothly to performing as an individual. I would probably rule that mages could convert to whatever Exalt type fit them best.)

All and all, I would say leave the powers as is, or maybe increase or decrease there effectivness, depending on the power, and how it works.

Comments for AngelWick

I have one for myself. Considering that the only "logical" connection between Earth of the old WoD and Creation is the Wyld, it might be a good idea to say that this is actually where these guys came from. As such, they may need to roll for Wyld Mutations, Wyld exposure, and Wyld Addiction. All would be suggested Flaws to take when spending Bonus Points if they are granted. The other possible route of travel could also be the Labyrinth within the Underworld, or even Malfeas. Travel through either would have their own drawbacks. And what it the Black Spiral Dancers managed to make it through the portal? Oh, man! They'd probably amount to Infernals though... --AngelWick

I personally dislike both Werewolf and Lunars, so I'm just here to comment on your Ability spread. Specifically, I think Subterfuge and Empathy both convert better to Socialize than to Larceny. I don't know how much Exalted you've actually played, but my experience has been that Socialize always covers the rolls you'd make for Subterfuge and Empathy, not Larceny. (This is best exemplified in the Solar Charms section -- you'll note that all the Charms that could be considered "Subterfuge" or "Empathy" are Socialize Charms. Except for disguising Charms, I guess, which are sometimes run as Subterfuge in WoD ... but I personally always thought those would be better under Streetwise.) I also think that Law and Enigmas will sometimes go under Lore. Oh, and Leadership often goes under Performance as well.
~ Shataina

PS: Be careful about your wicked crossover ideas around here. <grin> Some people will be very upset by them. I believe the general phrase is something like "every time you think about crossover a kitten dies in fear and grief".

Thanks for your suggestions and thanks about the warning. I can understand people's distaste for crossovers. But most people go with the one-is-the-other's-past concept. When I originally posted this idea in my Yahoo Group, I met with the same distaste from the friend who I've quoted in note number 2. He actually doesn't see the "alternate universe" concept as being as offfensive. In fact, I think it's the least offensive way to go. A guy who goes by the alias binarysins posts both in the WW forum and in the Exalted LiveJournal comunity, secondage. He's actually done his homework and thought out a pretty good idea as to how to start a game on Earth then have the PCs fall into what ends up being a Calibration Gate and into Yu-Shan. They then get written into reality as Lytek releases some Solar Essences he's been saving for a "special occasion". Once his PCs get out of Yu-Shan, the story picks up with a Fair Folk noble and a Wyld Addicted Deathlord working in cahoots for some reason or another. Both his idea and mine hold the "there's no going back" feel to it. With my idea, the WoD has ended and any survivors have been lead through the Umbra and beyond to a realm where they might continue their legacy. With binarysins, the "no way home" feeling comes from the fact that the two realities (Earth and Creation) run at different time rates and as such, the alighnment necessary to return home may never happen again within their lifetime. --AngelWick

OK, cool idea. Exalted setting floating somewhere else in the Wyld, Creation collapsing and some folks escaping... its cool. Though, if I were running this, I would complement the "no way home" feel with a "you can't escape" theme and have some of Earth's baddies also make it through the Wyld to Creation, where they start making alliances with Creation's baddies, giving Earth's surviving heroes soom pretty cool hooks. That said, I have always had a different idea of where the garou and the lunars are related. As far as I can tell, the garou would not become Lunar Exalted. They would end up translating as potent godblooded, their godblood coming from Earth's (now dead) Incarnae. The only people eligable to recieve exaltation would be the "kinfolk" and "ordinary mortals" accompanying the fleeing werewolves, though I'm sure wolf-totem Lunars would just love to take garou under their protection and breed them with their beastman followers. As a side-note, Earth's Mages could also Exalt, as in Exalted they would basically be really powerful thaumaturgists (though, some of their magic would probably stop working in Creation). Anyway, I, for one, would love to see the faces of those uppity werewolves when their kinfolk start recieving cosmic power, leaving them in the proverbial dust, as the sidekicks they had always forced their relatives to be.

Finally, as someone who has practiced a little archery, I can tell you that archery does not map to firearms at all. If you can shoot a bow, you can shoot a bow. If you can shoot a rifle, you can shoot a rifle. The only exception might be exotic first-age weaponry and firewands. Other than that, your Earthside gun bunnies should, in my opinion, just have to suck it up and buy archery.

-Seraph

The flail and the quarterstaff have nothing in common either, yet both are governed by the same ability. The distinction you are drawing is below Exalted's layer of abstraction. Furthermore, I'd note that Exalted already uses Archery to cover bows, crossbows, flamethrowers, beam-weapons, and Chiaroscuro's shore cannons. And besides, doesn't the Firearms skill in WoD include the use of bows anyway?- Raindoll

Thanks dude. I welcome all constructive criticism. Garou and other shapechangers being powerful Godblooded sounds like an interesting twist. Now are you talking straight God-Blooded, or Half-Caste? Either way, I'm sure they would all become rather jealous if their kinfolk started to exalt. And Mages starting from a thaumaturge standpoint makes a bit of sense too. Though I'm not as well versed with mortal thaumaturgy as I should be. These are all valid concepts that make some sort of logical sense. Thanks for the input. --AngelWick

I wouldn't call a Mage a thaumaturgist, rather, I would think of them as a sort of the reverse of the murged Dragon-Kings Sprites - Corporeal beings who have such an intence nature that a peice of their soul has evoulved into a minnor god. I think you could do interesting things with such a outlook, and it would make Mages rather desturbing to creatures of creation.

Mages as spirit-weirdos... works for me, in theory, though the metaphysics of it might get so complicated as to be unuseable. As far as garouness... it depends on your standpoint. If you're doing Earth as Creation-gone-sour, garou and all other bété are half-caste, descendants of long-gone Lunars. If Earth is a separate place, they're the god-blooded of dead gods. And as to Archery... I see what you mean, but I'd still force them to buy a new ability, or at the very least force it to convert slowly. - Seraph