IanPrice/FalseManse

This is a page to describe how my character (in a side-story for the Exalted game I am in) intends to build a False Manse. To see the original concept of the False Manse, look here. This design will be able to power all its systems fully at all times, though. My ability to create all this permanently will be based on a combination of Wyld Cauldron Technology and Dream Given Form, a canon 2e charm and a custom spell.

The various pieces of this are now statted out at Artifacts/IanPrice.

Combo: Carving Perfection From Chaos (Auspicious Lore Excellency, Auspicious Craft Excellency, First Lore Excellency, First Craft Excellency, Wyld-Shaping Technique, Craftsman Needs no Tools, Chaos-Resistance Preparation)

• With this Combo, I will be able to...
  • Apply an Intelligence + Lore roll and an Intelligence + Craft roll to crafting an Artifact every 4 days (instead of every season).
  • Add 10 dice to each roll, for a total of 23 dice each.
  • Cause all 23 dice to become successes, as well as spending a Willpower for an extra success. (resulting in 48 successes added every 4 days)
  • Ensure the Wyld will not erode my creation.

Thus, since in Creation there are...

• 425 days in a year.
• 84 days in a season.
• 28 days in a month.
• 5 days of Calibration.

Crafting a False Manse of my own will have a timetable something like this:

• Factory-Cathedral Facilities:
  • 250 successes, difficulty 6.
• Enlightening Sun Mirrors:
  • 255 successes each, difficulty 3.
• Artillery Controls:
  • 250 successes, difficulty 3.
• Essence-Flux Panel System:
  • 255 successes, difficutly 3.
• Essence-Harvest Stabilization Engines:
  • 255 successes each, difficulty 3.
• Manse-Emulation Controls:
  • 250 successes, difficulty 3.
• Hearthstone Coalescing Circuitry:
  • 255 successes each, difficulty 3.
• Chaos-Repelling Matricies:
  • 255 successes each, difficulty 3.
• Chaos-Reweaving Engines:
  • 255 successes each, difficulty 3.

• Dream Given Form (spell research):
  • 60 days.
• Land (carved from Wyld to make space for the facility):
  • 1 day.
• Factory-Cathedral:
  • 14 days to design.
  • 24 days to build.
• Sun Mirrors:
  • 14 days to desgin.
  • 23 days to build.
  • 15 mirrors = 345 days base, -14 days due to practice.
• Artillery Controls:
  • 14 days to design
  • 22 days to build.
  • 3 control stations = 66 days, -2 days due to practice.
• Panel System:
  • 14 days to desgin.
  • 23 days to build.
• Stabilization Engines:
  • 14 days to desgin.
  • 23 days to build.
  • 15 Engines = 345 days, -14 days due to practice.
• Manse-Emulation:
  • 14 days to design
  • 22 days to build.
• Hearthstone Circuitry:
  • 14 days to desgin.
  • 23 days to build.
  • 6 Hearthstones = 138 days, -5 days due to practice.
• Chaos-Repelling:
  • 14 days to desgin.
  • 23 days to build.
  • 5 Matricies = 115 days, -4 days due to practice.
• Chaos-Reweaving:
  • 14 days to desgin.
  • 23 days to build.
  • 5 Engines = 115 days, -4 days due to practice.

Total construction time: 1329 days (Roughly 3 years, 1 season. I don't count Calibration as workable building time, because I don't feel like getting demon infestations.)

I'll explain what all this means later. Just putting some thoughts down.

Comments

That combo is wierd. Do you intend to apply craft excelencies to a lore roll or what?

Aside from tha I like it, and I look forward to hearing more on how you will acomplish this and what it all means. You might be intrestend in my craft charms, since some of thm might be of aid. Also, for a non-wyld source, check out my spells. Also, Another question, do you still consider dream given form balanced, givne the limitations imposed on WST? -Azurelight

Considering that to build something like a Manse it would take thousands or even millions of motes to do it with Dream Given Form, and you wouldn't be able to apply it over as long a time as you want like with Wyld Shaping Technique? Yeah... Dream Given Form is pretty balanced. Mostly, I'll use it to create the Magical Materials I'll need to craft this thing.

The Combo includes all that because Wyld Shaping Technique allows, when applying the successes to craft magical things, applying the successes directly to the result of a Craft check. It also speeds up the process by 10x, while Craftsman Needs No Tools speeds it up by 3x, thus bringing the basic period of construction down from a season (84 days) per roll to 3 days per roll. - IanPrice

Sorry if this sounds rude, but I can see three problems with this that you'll want to look at.

1) Characters can't build Level 4-5 objects without Wonder-Forging Genius.

2) Multipliers in Exalted don't multiply each other; they all affect the base level. x3 and x10 make x12 total speed, not x30. That will reduce construction time per roll from 84 days to 7 days, not 3 days.

3) How does 48 successes at difficulty 6, with one roll per 3 days, work out to 6 days? I may be missing something, but I think that works out to +43 per roll, meaning six rolls and 18 days, not six days.

Finally, a question rather than a problem - why the odd Difficulties? Shouldn't everything be Difficulty 7? - FrivYeti

1. Wonder-Forging Wha? I didn't see this requirement anywhere in Savant and Sorceror. I saw a need for Intelligence + Lore, Occult, and Craft rolls to design it.
2. Well, this is the kind of reason I post this stuff on the Wiki, so that my math can be checked.
3. See number 2.
4. The difficulty numbers come from a base difficulty of 7, modified +3 for no factory at first, then -4 for having a Circle of Solars working on the project. The +3 goes away for everything after the Factory-Cathedral. The Factory Cathedral can only be constructed because my Storyteller has generously allowed specialties to apply to the Lore 8, Occult 7 requirements on the construction.

Math fixing done. - IanPrice

As a note, I don't consider that super-generous. It's a rule we've used for a long time, with good benefit. Allows differentiation between craftsmen, as some have Manse specialties, others artifice, etc. I personally am fond of said house-rule, at least. -- GreenLantern

Well, I felt it was generous, since the intent of the designer was probably to say, "building First Age Factory-Cathedrals is for Essence 8 elder exalts." - IanPrice

Filching a couple ideas for the ol' ManseCreation system. Hope you don't mind.
~ Shataina

Heh... I haven't used anything here that's not in Savant & Sorcerer, crunch-wise. I wonder what you're filching... - IanPrice

I prefer to err on the side of caution when inspired by other wikizens, even if I'm pretty sure that whatever was inspired by their work bears little resemblance to what inspired it, or whatever. I had some ideas while looking at this page, so, well, there you go.
~ Shataina

Ok *Sigh*. There seems to be alot of confusion here-

X 2 changes artefact creation(page 134) , so now you need to have an abillity rating of (artifact rating +2). This can , however, be circumventend with the above mentioned charm from WoTLA. it lower the demande by 1 per purchase (max 2)

"Mostly, I'll use it to create the Magical Materials I'll need to craft this thing." It was this aspect I thought of. Now youy require sacrefices to do it stabiliy with charms.

"The Combo includes all that because Wyld Shaping Technique allows, when applying the successes to craft magical things, applying the successes directly to the result of a Craft check. It also speeds up the process by 10x, while Craftsman Needs No Tools speeds it up by 3x, thus bringing the basic period of construction down from a season (84 days) per roll to 3 days per roll."

sorry but That does not make any sense at all to me. First, CNNT doesn't speed up by afactor of three, but by a factor of essence*3.

Page ref 213

Second, that not at all how I read the part of the charm.

Charm text: Magical things To Create an aritfact or manse , the solar applies the sucesses on this roll as directly as craft sucesses in manse or artifact construction. Nowhere does it mention craft check, so I assune alor roll is still a lore roll. Page ref 216

Also, WoTLA seems to imply that the "non-cathedral penalty " only applies to non-charm enhanced rolls. this is vague though

Sorry if this may sound overly grumpy, But I thiink applying editions consistently is a good thing to do as much as possible -Azurelight

• Thanks for explaining the need for Wonder Forging Genius. I'll either add it to my character's list (doesn't bear mentioning here because it doesn't affect the speed of construction), or get permission to use specialties to cover that requirement as well. Or possibly both. I'd forgotten this rule, obviously, but my character will have a 3-die specialty relating to this task in all the relevant abilities, so it might not be an issue. I'd have to re-check with my ST.
• Wyld Shaping Techinque (Ex2, page 216), in the Magical Things header: "This Charm cannot speed the construction process more than tenfold, but the character is specifically permitted to supplement this process with Craft charms such as Craftsman Needs No Tools." My Storyteller interpreted this to mean that normal crafting and Wyld-Shaping type crafting would be occurring at the same time.
• You're quite right about CNNT's factor... whoopsie. That means the total construction multiplier is a x25.
• Because Wonders is so vague, my ST decided to use the more detailed difficulty table in S&S. S&S clarifies that charms such as CNNT allow repair, but they operate at the same difficulty as a "normal workshop."
• To clarify about Dream Given Form: This spell, due to its costing, would be useless to this project if not for the current way Wyld Shaping Technique works. Or at least much less useful. Creating any single piece of this fortress would be pretty near impossible even for an entire Circle of Solar sorcerers, due to the prohibitive cost I put on the spell. Thus, the best crafting use I can get out of the spell is to make the sacrifices for Wyld Cauldron Technology.

Why do people keep apologizing for grumpiness? Yeah, this is my pet project, but I'm not offended... I'm pleasantly surprised by all the help! - IanPrice

" Wyld Shaping Techinque (Ex2, page 216), in the Magical Things header: "This Charm cannot speed the construction process more than tenfold, but the character is specifically permitted to supplement this process with Craft charms such as Craftsman Needs No Tools." My Storyteller interpreted this to mean that normal crafting and Wyld-Shaping type crafting would be occurring at the same time."

Ok, I simply interpreted it so that you could shape the artifact with WST and that to shape eg. an artifact 3, you had to collect 60 suceses wit WST. Afte all, it says "Applies sucesses on this roll as craft sucess on the projekt. but what does he mean with normal crafting? - Azurelight

"Applies the successes directly as craft successes..."; "...permitted to supplement this process with Craft charms..."; That's normal crafting. Craft successes implies a Craft roll in progress. Craft charms supplement a craft roll. That's the way my ST ruled it. Why? Because the period of the Craft roll is once every 84 days. CNNT reduces this to every 5.6 days by itself at Essence 5 (x15 speed of construction). WST "cannot speed the construction process more than tenfold," thus, we use x10 as the speed multiplier, since the usual amount of time to use Wyld Shaping Technique is only 5 hours. Due to the way multipliers stack in Exalted (by adding together then multiplying the original number), this results in x25 speed. This means that it takes 3.36 (rounded up to 4) days per roll, and the WST successes add to the Craft roll. - IanPrice

I think the bigger issue here is that Ian seems to be using 1E in places, not 2E. Hence, WotLA, and the new CNNT, etc, are all confused points. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course, but I think that explains much of the confusion. -- GreenLantern

The only 1E I'm using is the more detailed difficulty table in S&S. The things I missed were the CNNT multiplier (Essence x3, not just x3), and the Lore, Occult, and Craft requirements for Artifacts rated 4 and 5 in 2E. FrivYeti also correctly pointed out the way multipliers stack in Exalted. And now, Azurelight is questioning the use of craft and lore rolls on the same project. - IanPrice

Yes, Althoug I a seems to think I question mor then I do. The onl thing i question is the use of a craft excenlency, sinc from my pow ther is no typical craft roll involved. To me its all about the lore roll, with the special cavat tha CNNT may supplement it. That realthe only thing tha bother me., NOthing Else. And Ian spectacularly suceed itn missin my point of contention too. I hope I made it cleares now- Azurelight

You and my ST differ. According to the person running my game, there is a craft roll involved. Therefore, the craft charms supplement the craft roll. - IanPrice

Yeah, I realised that, and I think I had an epiphny this morning telling me how he may think. If I understand correctly, WST sucesses simply add in meeting the collective difficulty, according to him, right? I musdt says that is very intresting interprention, and it makes a wierd levle of sense...hmm...where does said craft roll come in?.only problem I can see lies in the combo restriction tha supplemetal charm must supplemtne the action of a simple char in a combo, hence CNNT would have to supplement the WST action. Azurelight

It works like this in our estimation:

• Start Craft project, which is an Extended Dramatic Action.
• Normally, this involves Craft rolls at certain intervals.
• Wyld Shaping Technique, since it specifies its compatibility with Craft charms, may be used to supplement this project and placed in a Combo with Craft charms for it.
• Thus, WST and CNNT each apply their modifier to the rolling period.
• WST also says it "adds successes," so the normal roll for WST is made (with no difficulty modifier if Pure Chaos is used) and adds to the Craft roll.
  • Of course, Lore Excellencies can modify WST's roll if they are Comboed with it.
• The Craft roll is also made at its standard difficulty, modified by:
  • WST's successes
  • And any Craft charms comboed together for this action.

Thus, basically, this is a Craft action, supplemented by Lore charms because of WST's specific allowances. - IanPrice

IanPrice, this is a very interesting concept. I am fascinated in the entire concept and I am extremely glad that you posted it here. A question, what is it that your factory-cathedral does. I eagerly await any updates. Great work. - Heru

A Factory-Cathedral is a First Age production facility, described in Savant & Sorceror. It helps me to machine the parts needed for the bigger items, and includes all manner of tools both mundane and magical. Since mine will have a 3-die specialty in magitech, it will have especially precise tools for working with Essence circuitry, probably even automated ones. My facility will also be specifically toughened against the Wyld and will be designed to work with my Wyld-Shaping Technique. - IanPrice