Difference between revisions of "RavenXanthus/SixKingsStyleDiscussion"
m |
|||
| (2 intermediate revisions by one other user not shown) | |||
| Line 13: | Line 13: | ||
I’ve added my own thoughts on each Charm and tried to offer an alternative take based on an assumption from reading the fluff. I kind of run rampant with ideas. I hope you can forgive that, and enjoy. Feel free to ignore all of this. | I’ve added my own thoughts on each Charm and tried to offer an alternative take based on an assumption from reading the fluff. I kind of run rampant with ideas. I hope you can forgive that, and enjoy. Feel free to ignore all of this. | ||
| + | '''Raven Xanthus''': I really like the fact that caught the deeper meaning of the Fair Folk hint right out the gate. As to the analogues | ||
| + | I really like the idea and as you say later on a restructuring to make this charm tree into a founding house, a Typical Martial Art | ||
| + | Analogy by the way, is also rock solid. I thought about making this the Mortal Initiation for a while but I'd held off on that until I | ||
| + | was more well read [Read: Found my Dragon-Blooded book.] on the subject. As I opened up this is a Work in Progress and this well thought | ||
| + | out response is the kind of thing I needed. You have my heart-felt gratitude for this unbiased review. | ||
| + | |||
| + | As to 3 motes to 1 WP I found the Note in the Player's Guide [Paying the Costs Pg 122-123] which has a similar set up. I can see the | ||
| + | whole locked at Essence 1 point. Running rampant with ideas is the point of why we post on a wiki, so fear not as long as we have good | ||
| + | communication we'll get through this. | ||
| + | |||
| + | I'll be posting a Rewrite of the Six King's Style in a little while using some of your suggestions. | ||
----- | ----- | ||
| + | |||
<b><i>Life-Return Meditation </i></b> | <b><i>Life-Return Meditation </i></b> | ||
| − | '''Lossefion''': There are two things I would suggest changing. I don’t think that you should penalise mortals who stunt by adding a mechanic to remove the benefits of stunting when they have it lessened anyway (Exalted Core pg 123 – 124). I also think that adding a new mechanic to withold bonuses and spend them later overcomplicates things a bit. I’ve taken this into account with my later suggestions. | + | '''Lossefion''': There are two things I would suggest changing. I don’t think that you should penalise mortals who stunt by adding a mechanic to remove the benefits of stunting when they have it lessened anyway (Exalted Core pg 123 – 124). I also think that adding a new mechanic to withold bonuses and spend them later overcomplicates things a bit. I’ve taken this into account with my later suggestions. Relying on the Six Kings style in play appears to require a lot of stunting in general to keep that Willpower topped up. |
| + | |||
| + | Consider that the purpose of this martial art may be to turn a mortal “more-than-mortal”. Perhaps a permanent charm, linked to Compassion. Allow stunting martial artists a new option to regain a single health level instead of a WP point. Spending a WP to channel Compassion through the same action adds successes rather dice to the effort. The stunt might have to be done in certain circumstances – facing a deadly foe, uncertain odds, protecting others. | ||
| + | |||
| − | + | '''Raven Xanthus''': Again I can tell that you are trying to work in my sand-box from the very beginning and I agree that the stunt rule | |
| + | limits Mortals. I can also see how the Rebirth mechanic can be top-heavy. | ||
| + | As a permanent charm I'd write it to be more like the Ink Monkey's Hellraiser's Instinct, a charm which is permanent but can be paid for | ||
| + | 'on the spot'. The idea of healing a level of health is a fine idea, one that I actual started with but now think is too powerful, and I | ||
| + | can firmly get behind it, though I'd most-likely keep the reduction quality as outright regeneration is Exalt-level extreme. The limit | ||
| + | of the abilities could get strange so for now I'll leave it out until we have conversed over it some more, as such a ruling can be | ||
| + | easily-exploitable if worded wrong. | ||
----- | ----- | ||
| Line 26: | Line 47: | ||
'''Lossefion''': I see links to the Temperance virtue. Adding (Temperance) to Dodge or Parry DV as an option for 1WP would be good for a simpler mechanic. This could be 2WP or 1WP for (MA) Actions or scene-long as you decide. Scene-long is powerful at the moment. | '''Lossefion''': I see links to the Temperance virtue. Adding (Temperance) to Dodge or Parry DV as an option for 1WP would be good for a simpler mechanic. This could be 2WP or 1WP for (MA) Actions or scene-long as you decide. Scene-long is powerful at the moment. | ||
| + | |||
| + | '''Raven Xanthus''': This is solid and you'll see my edits when the rewrite comes up. | ||
----- | ----- | ||
| Line 32: | Line 55: | ||
'''Lossefion''': There could be comparison to Laughing Wounds Style. I see links to the Conviction Virtue here. There are three options here. Gain (Conviction) in Lethal and Bashing Soak that counts as Natural; reduce all incoming damage by (Conviction); or gain (Conviction) hardness. Any of these would last for (MA actions). You could also add MA rating to Conviction for derived ratings, or combine any two options. | '''Lossefion''': There could be comparison to Laughing Wounds Style. I see links to the Conviction Virtue here. There are three options here. Gain (Conviction) in Lethal and Bashing Soak that counts as Natural; reduce all incoming damage by (Conviction); or gain (Conviction) hardness. Any of these would last for (MA actions). You could also add MA rating to Conviction for derived ratings, or combine any two options. | ||
| + | |||
| + | '''Raven Xanthus''': This is solid and you'll see my edits when the rewrite comes up. | ||
----- | ----- | ||
| Line 38: | Line 63: | ||
'''Lossefion''': I hate to say it, but to me Perfect Dodges in a Terrestrial Style of any sort just don’t fit. I think this one has to be nerfed. Something akin to Leaping Dodge Method from the Exalted Core Rulebook might be better. 1WP cost to enhance a Dodge or Parry action, potentially breaking a flurry, but you don’t have to move out of range. (Actually, this perhaps should gain the Counterattack Keyword.) Their (Wits+Ability) vs (Dexterity +Martial Arts + Specialisation) should still stand to succeed. You could perhaps add (MA) to the selected DV for the rest of the action. This charm should perhaps be removed to after any suggested Form-Style. Fluff says to me "Sureness of Self" here. | '''Lossefion''': I hate to say it, but to me Perfect Dodges in a Terrestrial Style of any sort just don’t fit. I think this one has to be nerfed. Something akin to Leaping Dodge Method from the Exalted Core Rulebook might be better. 1WP cost to enhance a Dodge or Parry action, potentially breaking a flurry, but you don’t have to move out of range. (Actually, this perhaps should gain the Counterattack Keyword.) Their (Wits+Ability) vs (Dexterity +Martial Arts + Specialisation) should still stand to succeed. You could perhaps add (MA) to the selected DV for the rest of the action. This charm should perhaps be removed to after any suggested Form-Style. Fluff says to me "Sureness of Self" here. | ||
| + | '''Raven Xanthus''': I understand the Perfect is a dangerous thing, it wasn't my best work as I've said. Changing in for a Counter- | ||
| + | Attack is a solid choice that I hadn't thought of and flurry-breakers of any kind are always needed. Having the safety-net of MA in DV | ||
| + | for the tick sounds like a cool way to keep away from the odd Counter-Counter-Attacks that are out there. Pushing it back to past the | ||
| + | Form-Style Charm sounds like a solid plan. | ||
----- | ----- | ||
| Line 44: | Line 73: | ||
'''Lossefion''': I see links to Valor. This could perhaps be a permanent charm allowing the holder to choose whether to inflict Lethal or Bashing damage, whilst still using the base Punch, Clinch or Kick statistics. Add an option to spend 1WP to add the Piercing tag for (MA actions), add Valour to Damage and the Overwhelming (2) tag, or to add the Jade magical material bonus to the strike for the same length of time. | '''Lossefion''': I see links to Valor. This could perhaps be a permanent charm allowing the holder to choose whether to inflict Lethal or Bashing damage, whilst still using the base Punch, Clinch or Kick statistics. Add an option to spend 1WP to add the Piercing tag for (MA actions), add Valour to Damage and the Overwhelming (2) tag, or to add the Jade magical material bonus to the strike for the same length of time. | ||
| + | '''Raven Xanthus''':This is solid and you'll see my edits when the rewrite comes up. | ||
----- | ----- | ||
| Line 52: | Line 82: | ||
In hindsight, making the base damage (Current WP) would also reflect the drain on the martial artist’s will. | In hindsight, making the base damage (Current WP) would also reflect the drain on the martial artist’s will. | ||
| + | '''Raven Xanthus''': This is solid and you'll see my edits when the rewrite comes up. | ||
----- | ----- | ||
| Line 64: | Line 95: | ||
The enlightened martial artist may spend motes of Essence on Six Kings’ Style for a 3m to 1WP ratio. They may mix and match costs. | The enlightened martial artist may spend motes of Essence on Six Kings’ Style for a 3m to 1WP ratio. They may mix and match costs. | ||
| + | '''Raven Xanthus''': I like all of these suggestions. | ||
----- | ----- | ||
| Line 86: | Line 118: | ||
The Martial Artist adds (highest Virtue) to difficulty of all hostile Shaping Actions, or to pools to defend against such actions. (This could alternatively be added to Six Powers Realised.) | The Martial Artist adds (highest Virtue) to difficulty of all hostile Shaping Actions, or to pools to defend against such actions. (This could alternatively be added to Six Powers Realised.) | ||
| + | |||
| + | '''Raven Xanthus''': Hmm, this is good. [Rippppp!] | ||
Latest revision as of 23:54, 31 May 2015
The Six Kings Style:
Return to The_Six_King's_Style:
Return to Raven Xanthus
Lossefion: I really like the concept for the style. There are numerous plot and metaplot styles you could weave into the background. “Six Kings” could be an analogy for the Four Virtues, Willpower and the Self. The “Self” perhaps denotes Essence. The masters could have used these blocks as starting points for the style.
The story link in the capstone charm – that it was the marauding Fair Folk that prompted the creation of the style – gives perhaps sinister connotations. It could be the original practitioners were using the weapons of the Fair Folk against them, or that the entire thing was a cruel raksha joke meant to create a fulfilling (read: “tasty”) story of valour and hope in the face of horrific odds. With this type of history, I agree it would be traditionally taught to unenlightened mortals as a gateway style.
Where Willpower is spent by an unenlightened martial artist, I’d consider having the cost equal to 3 motes per WP overall for an enlightened martial artist. I’d also consider turning this martial art into a tool for enlightenment, adding it as a pathway from the capstone charm. If it is to be used by unenlightened mortals, I would suggest reducing the minimum Essence required to 1 across the board or eliminate it entirely. Unenlightened mortals by definition have Essence 1.
I’ve added my own thoughts on each Charm and tried to offer an alternative take based on an assumption from reading the fluff. I kind of run rampant with ideas. I hope you can forgive that, and enjoy. Feel free to ignore all of this.
Raven Xanthus: I really like the fact that caught the deeper meaning of the Fair Folk hint right out the gate. As to the analogues I really like the idea and as you say later on a restructuring to make this charm tree into a founding house, a Typical Martial Art Analogy by the way, is also rock solid. I thought about making this the Mortal Initiation for a while but I'd held off on that until I was more well read [Read: Found my Dragon-Blooded book.] on the subject. As I opened up this is a Work in Progress and this well thought out response is the kind of thing I needed. You have my heart-felt gratitude for this unbiased review.
As to 3 motes to 1 WP I found the Note in the Player's Guide [Paying the Costs Pg 122-123] which has a similar set up. I can see the whole locked at Essence 1 point. Running rampant with ideas is the point of why we post on a wiki, so fear not as long as we have good communication we'll get through this.
I'll be posting a Rewrite of the Six King's Style in a little while using some of your suggestions.
Life-Return Meditation
Lossefion: There are two things I would suggest changing. I don’t think that you should penalise mortals who stunt by adding a mechanic to remove the benefits of stunting when they have it lessened anyway (Exalted Core pg 123 – 124). I also think that adding a new mechanic to withold bonuses and spend them later overcomplicates things a bit. I’ve taken this into account with my later suggestions. Relying on the Six Kings style in play appears to require a lot of stunting in general to keep that Willpower topped up.
Consider that the purpose of this martial art may be to turn a mortal “more-than-mortal”. Perhaps a permanent charm, linked to Compassion. Allow stunting martial artists a new option to regain a single health level instead of a WP point. Spending a WP to channel Compassion through the same action adds successes rather dice to the effort. The stunt might have to be done in certain circumstances – facing a deadly foe, uncertain odds, protecting others.
Raven Xanthus: Again I can tell that you are trying to work in my sand-box from the very beginning and I agree that the stunt rule
limits Mortals. I can also see how the Rebirth mechanic can be top-heavy.
As a permanent charm I'd write it to be more like the Ink Monkey's Hellraiser's Instinct, a charm which is permanent but can be paid for 'on the spot'. The idea of healing a level of health is a fine idea, one that I actual started with but now think is too powerful, and I can firmly get behind it, though I'd most-likely keep the reduction quality as outright regeneration is Exalt-level extreme. The limit of the abilities could get strange so for now I'll leave it out until we have conversed over it some more, as such a ruling can be easily-exploitable if worded wrong.
Imitating Cloud Posture
Lossefion: I see links to the Temperance virtue. Adding (Temperance) to Dodge or Parry DV as an option for 1WP would be good for a simpler mechanic. This could be 2WP or 1WP for (MA) Actions or scene-long as you decide. Scene-long is powerful at the moment.
Raven Xanthus: This is solid and you'll see my edits when the rewrite comes up.
Iron-Lake Mountain Pulse
Lossefion: There could be comparison to Laughing Wounds Style. I see links to the Conviction Virtue here. There are three options here. Gain (Conviction) in Lethal and Bashing Soak that counts as Natural; reduce all incoming damage by (Conviction); or gain (Conviction) hardness. Any of these would last for (MA actions). You could also add MA rating to Conviction for derived ratings, or combine any two options.
Raven Xanthus: This is solid and you'll see my edits when the rewrite comes up.
Shooting Star Step Method
Lossefion: I hate to say it, but to me Perfect Dodges in a Terrestrial Style of any sort just don’t fit. I think this one has to be nerfed. Something akin to Leaping Dodge Method from the Exalted Core Rulebook might be better. 1WP cost to enhance a Dodge or Parry action, potentially breaking a flurry, but you don’t have to move out of range. (Actually, this perhaps should gain the Counterattack Keyword.) Their (Wits+Ability) vs (Dexterity +Martial Arts + Specialisation) should still stand to succeed. You could perhaps add (MA) to the selected DV for the rest of the action. This charm should perhaps be removed to after any suggested Form-Style. Fluff says to me "Sureness of Self" here.
Raven Xanthus: I understand the Perfect is a dangerous thing, it wasn't my best work as I've said. Changing in for a Counter- Attack is a solid choice that I hadn't thought of and flurry-breakers of any kind are always needed. Having the safety-net of MA in DV for the tick sounds like a cool way to keep away from the odd Counter-Counter-Attacks that are out there. Pushing it back to past the Form-Style Charm sounds like a solid plan.
Honed Steel Needle
Lossefion: I see links to Valor. This could perhaps be a permanent charm allowing the holder to choose whether to inflict Lethal or Bashing damage, whilst still using the base Punch, Clinch or Kick statistics. Add an option to spend 1WP to add the Piercing tag for (MA actions), add Valour to Damage and the Overwhelming (2) tag, or to add the Jade magical material bonus to the strike for the same length of time.
Raven Xanthus:This is solid and you'll see my edits when the rewrite comes up.
Storm-God Strike
Lossefion: I like this, and it has connotations of Willpower about it. I would look to the Shock Pike for inspiration as well, perhaps making the base damage (WP) Lethal. This gives a static rating, seeing as you do not add strength to the damage. Attack pool could be (Perception + MA). I believe that it should cost 2WP, as it’s an extreme projection of will.
In hindsight, making the base damage (Current WP) would also reflect the drain on the martial artist’s will.
Raven Xanthus: This is solid and you'll see my edits when the rewrite comes up.
The Six Powers Realized Enlightenment
Lossefion: I would suggest the cost be changed to (+1lhl, 1xp), raise the MA minimum to 5, and remove the Form-Type keyword. This would make it a supplemental charm for the suggested alternative Six Kings Form charm below. Whilst in this state, all preceding charms that last (MA in actions) may be activated for the duration of Six Kings Form. Alternatively, any relevant Martial Arts specialisation in the Style may be added to values derived using (MA) or (Virtue).
The ST should keep track of Experience Points spent on this charm. Where it equals the cost of the Essence Channeler blight, the Martial Artist receives it for no extra cost. The Martial Artist may also use this charm as training time towards related merits at the ST’s discretion, including raised Essence rating.
Alternatively, XP spent here could go towards a Signature Style merit, or Daredevil merit.
The enlightened martial artist may spend motes of Essence on Six Kings’ Style for a 3m to 1WP ratio. They may mix and match costs.
Raven Xanthus: I like all of these suggestions.
Additional:
I suggest a potential restructuring of the style, with a building block of the four “Virtue” charms, through a new Form Charm, then Storm God Strike and Shooting Star Step as splitting off before culminating in Six Powers Realised Enlightenment.
Alternatively, here’s one that remains much the same: Life Return Meditation + Imitating Cloud Posture = Shooting Star Step; Iron-Lake Mediation + Honed Steel Needle = Storm God Strike; Storm God Strike + Shooting Star Step = Six Kings Form; Six Kings Form = Six Powers Realised Enlightenment. Six Power’s fluff said that the Form charm was the “penultimate expression” of the Form’s power.
Six Kings Form (suggested form charm)
Cost: 2WP Min: Essence 1, Martial Arts 4, Specialisation [Six Kings Style] 2 Duration: Scene Prerequisites: Life-Return Meditation; Honed Steel Needle; Iron-Lake Mountain Pulse; Imitating Cloud Posture
Fluff: Wherein the virtues of the kings are made manifest, the martial artist begins to impose his Will on an ever-changing world. The martial artist adopts an upright, classical position – a relaxed stance, ready to defend or attack. Every movement is just so, lending a serenity to her every motion.
Crunch: The martial artist may now stunt as an Exalt if they could not do so before. The martial artist adds (MA rating) to any one of the following: Bashing/Lethal Soak; Dodge DV, Parry DV.
The Martial Artist adds (highest Virtue) to difficulty of all hostile Shaping Actions, or to pools to defend against such actions. (This could alternatively be added to Six Powers Realised.)
Raven Xanthus: Hmm, this is good. [Rippppp!]
