MartialArts/HoSecArchive

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The Forms at this point are probably not balanced in effectiveness. Suggestions? - willows

I like, I like =) Nice flavor you've got going here, and good implementation too. Minor points: isn't SotBM a little powerful for its requirements? I know Snake style is a joke, but Uncoiling Serpent Prana or whatever it's called is practically the same Charm, and it's a 5/3 post-form. The College of the Key Form is horrendously overpowered. Maybe if the difficulty were something like twice the attacker's Essence or somesuch, but just a diff. 4 roll means that a Siddie with good Manipulation (department of redundency department) will not only never get hit (having essentially an automatic perfect defense against every attack against him), but no one will be able to attack anyone else anywhere near him. That's a little extreme. Finally, a question - if someone gets hit with TWInLWYA, can they still gain Essence from hearthstones, Essence Lending Method, stuff like that? Good style, though =) - SMK

Thank you. I think, alternatively, that Uncoiling Serpent Prana is weak - and it has advantages that this doesn't, which I will make explicit, including: The attack is material, and the space warping effect means that a defender can lay out a hand-to-hand counterattack against a Secret attack.

The College of the Key Form used to have even more scary bennies, including allowing other people to use your Maiden-Breaking-Heaven Markings. I see that it's a little intense; I like your "twice the attacker's Essence" thing, but it curves up too rapidly; I used "three plus the attacker's" instead. And note that the attacker has to be able to reach the new target, so this ability is useful in big melees, but crap in duels; like Broken Mirror, it reveals its strategy quickly and can be easily counteracted by intelligent responses.

Finally, until their identity is fully broken, they may do any of these things, but a broken person can do none. Not even Stunt Essence. Zilch. It's a profoundly nasty Charm, but very difficult to use; the primary ability is the resplendent destiny breakdown, which is quicker to affect. - willows

With these affects in mind, SotBM and CotKF seem ok. TWInLWYA is still hideous, but I see it as a Charm whose purpose is to give some more friendly NPC Siddie a bargaining chip with the characters later in the game. But about the roll, the Siddie's pool is probably going to be something like 7 or 8 at least, versus probably 3-5 for player characters. One or two good hits and *BAM* you've just wrecked a PC. If you didn't use the prayer strip, you didn't even have to spend willpower. Also, why on earth does it not put its target outside of fate? I mean, if he's already stricken from destiny? I don't know, it just seems like maybe a 5-Essence effect, since there's nothing you can do about it once it happens to you (you have to get someone else to take care of it, unless you happen to be a Sidereal). - SMK

It's not intended to be used that way, basically; this is a Style for Sidereals games. If you use it to browbeat your players, you're a meaner person than I. (And don't forget, you have to hit!) - willows

<Thoughful nodding> Yeah, that's true. I guess the simple thing to do outside of a Sidereals game is just not to use stuff like that. This is probably the root of a lot of my problems with the Sidereals' powers - they're not meant to be used on PCs, and really just shouldn't exist outside of games with Sidereal PCs. I've never thought of it like that... but it just seems like cheating, y'know? "Your opponent won't use this trick, because it's so hideously powerful." Huh? If I had a Sidereal NPC who should have this style, for example, and should have it mastered, what in-game reason is there for her not to use TWInLWYA? Especially if she's just trying to disable a character or two for a while? I don't know. On a purely mechanical point, though, I think it should definitely cost a willpower. This is really just me babbling (and don't let the nitpicking fool you, I do really like the style). - SMK

I'm glad that you do, and you're troubling to critique! I could justify the current costing in one way, and I can justify your suggestion in another way; I think that the Charm is actually fairly fragile by itself; because it needs to make contact, to affect an Exalted or other supernatural target you practially have to Combo it or make use of some of the other spooky powers of the Style, which means that you have to burn through Essence severely (even though the Style's Charms are relatively cheap). You're right, my argument pretty much is cheating. A properly built Secrets assassin will master this Style, and he will mark you with Maiden-Breahing-Heaven Marking, and then use the prayerstrip version of the Charm on you, and it'll suck for you, because every time he hits you (with extra dice!) a little piece of your personness shatters. But it sucks for him too, because he'll probably be forced to burn peri to do that. I'm going to put it this way; I think it makes a lot of sense to play the Charm as having a Willpower cost, and I'll make a note to that effect in the Charm description, but in a Sidereals game, I wouldn't charge a PC that Willpower. - willows

Honestly, as long as you remove the target from Fate too, I don't have much of a problem with the Charm. Sure, it fucks someone over. Sure, they basically have to turn to other Siddies for help. But once this has hit someone, while they're trying to fix it, it'll help keep whoever hit 'em with it in the first place off their trail (if you put this in before this past revision, I feel silly). Anyway, great work here. - SMK

GAH!

First, Dance of Sharp Words is TERRIFYING. For 3 motes I can render an attack functionally undodgeable and unparryable? As a 2/2 Pre-Form Charm? GAH, I repeat! And it attack multiple people at once! Ewewewewew!

I'm not loving the Constellations Form as a concept, but could cope.

The Guardians double bonus is... ew. The total not-impededness isn't bad, but being able to burn a dice to make an opponent's Ability go down? For one, I don't see how that meshes with the Guardians, and for two, I don't like it- it feels off. Maybe as a solitary (or part of only a minor benefits package), but combined with the unimpedability...

The Key Form + Blade of the Battle Maiden is just ill. The Key Form in general is reasonably alright. I think it would be better, however, if you made the Manipulation + Martial Arts check at a difficulty of just the person's Essence; however, if successful, you AND someone else (including the attacker, possibly) are the target of the attack. The attacker has the option to abort the attack at this point.

The Mask seems generally pretty cool. But the Manse auto-attune is wacky; what does that have to do with the Mask. Also, does the attunation stick? Cause that could get ill- given the whole 'it takes everyone attuned to the Manse to attune someone else normaly' ness of Creation, a single wandering Attunment could render a Manse almost unusable for future residents.

The Sorcerer actually seems kinda weak; I'd either the Exalt's Essence to Virtue Dice when channeling a Virtue and still ignore the per Story limit. Why just Valor?

I like the Treasure Trove Form. Pretty much, that's it. :)

On to the post form stuff!

Sky Escaping Mudra should be a Pre-Form Charm; it's a goood Charm, just too high a requirement for it's power. And I like the knockback; does it always kick in, or only if the blow lands or doesn't land?

I'd make Malachite Void Eyes a Simple Charm, myself. Just seems easier that way. Cool idea :)

The World Is No Less Without You Approach is just wrong. Not in a good, funny haha way either. It's... ew. Can you provide an example Charm that is as bad or worse at potentially just functionally killing someone, at those pre-reqs ans costs?

At the LEAST add a Willpower to the regular punch, and 2 Willpower to the full scene version!

DS

Whoa there, bucko. Those are some pretty serious missreadings of Charms you're making there, or pretty serious unclarities on my part.

Dance of Sharp Words is not a multiple-attack Charm, as the verbiage about speaking the target's name should have indicated; yes, it's difficult to parry and dodge, but no more so than any other immaterial attack.

Well, given that it affects an area around the user of it, that Charms which enhance your volume may enhance the Charm's area, it certainly sounds like it hits everyone around you.
And most Charms that are immaterial either kill slowly (The Abyssal Dirge Charm comes to mind as an excellent example) or aren't so immaterial as they first seem. I'd much rather see this as the Martial Artist giving a stern admonishment that raises the difficulty in parrying and dodging the blow, rather than making them fuzzy in applicibity. Perhaps by just a flat +2, or by Martial Arts or Essence... I think a 3 motes for a +2 difficulty on all defense rolls against that attack, or a 2 motes / +1 up to Essence would work pretty well there. DS
I think that would dilute the concept severely. But with your comments in mind, I've raised the cost of the Charm and made some clarifications to it, particularly the multiple-attack thing (that's the domain of Extra Actions). - willows

What Guardians double bonus are you referring to? All of the Constellations Forms play off the resplendent trappings of the various Colleges, so where you are seeing odd-looking effects, they are basically directly derived from the more abstract trappings.

The double bonus of the Guardian Form having both it's unstoppable juggernaut type stuff, and Ability reduction stuff. Which I still actively dislike, I'll add. On the other hand, I'm hard pressed to come up with another schtik; maybe provide their Martial Arts as a reflexive Parry bonus to anyone within Essence yards of them? Or raise everyone's soak nearby? Or (for Power Combat) reduce the minimum damage by the College rating? DS
It is probably the strongest of the Forms, for the Ability-reduction effect. - willows

All cross-style combinations are just ill. That complaint has no power against me.

This is Particuarly Bad. As in, it makes you Bloody Well Immune to being hit unless you get targeted by an undodgeable attack, of which there are precious few. Contrast that to Snake Form and tell me they even play at being balanced. DS
Hehe. I think the mote and style investment makes a statement about that; three Charms and five motes, or six Charms, twenty-six motes, and two Willpower? I know which I expect to be more effective.- willows

The Mask clings to sacred places and tends to linger around Manses and Demesnes. Straight out of Sidereals. The attunement is an effect of the Charm and ends when the Charm does.

Fair enough on both counts. It was the later that really had me worried. Hokay, the Mask is cool.  :) DS

The Sorcerer has been bugging me. I can't find an effect I like for it that's appropriate to both the astrological College and the Charm tree.

The knockback is automatic. I'm considering exchanging this Charm with its brother below the Form, Maiden-Breaking-Heaven Marking.

Hm. If you do that, I'd make the knockback not automatic. It works pretty well as a sort of hopping defense as is; it'd be a bit much lower in the tree. But, as is, coo. :) DS

The World Is No Less, I will repeat, isn't as good as it looks. Sure, it's probably the Bronze Faction's favorite way to put Solars out of the picture without having to try and actually kill them...but it won't mess up an astrologer of any useful stripe, or a high-Essence Exalt with reasonale combat prowess.

My major issue with the World is No Less is that it could easily cripple a character. But, on review, it's not really that much worse than, say, the Abyssal Limb Remover.
On the other hand, lost limbs grow back in Exalted. Lost names don't. I'd STRONGLY urge allowing for a Prayer roll (of difficulty equal to your original Essence) to also restore the lost name. DS
I actually like that a lot better than the current name-repair rule. Thanks! I've refined that rule and added it to the ways in which one can recover a name. - willows P.S.: Thanks for all the thoughtful comments.

- willows

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