Difference between revisions of "Discussions/TerrestrialLunars"

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Essentially for my alternate setting, one of the things I have is that the  various Exalted did create their own "exalted" servitors and allies during the first age. The Solars eventually created the Alchemical Exalts (which help from the Mountain Folk) the Siderals created an as yet undefined "fate ninja" to help them, and specific to this, the Lunars created their own terrestrial version of the servants of luna.   
 
Essentially for my alternate setting, one of the things I have is that the  various Exalted did create their own "exalted" servitors and allies during the first age. The Solars eventually created the Alchemical Exalts (which help from the Mountain Folk) the Siderals created an as yet undefined "fate ninja" to help them, and specific to this, the Lunars created their own terrestrial version of the servants of luna.   
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Now, I'm using [[GoldenCat]]'s [[GoldenCat/Lunars| Lunars]]  for the celestial lunars, but I'm still working a bit on my terrestrial lunars.  So far, I have the following ideas:
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Now, I'm using GoldenCat's [[GoldenCat/Lunars| Lunars]]  for the celestial lunars, but I'm still working a bit on my terrestrial lunars.  So far, I have the following ideas:
 
* 1. They are shapechangers, but based on the forms of their lunar creators, so thier "Base" form is a beastman-- unlike lunars they don't have a human "true form". (which rather constrains their ability to hide out in hostile areas especially if they blow lots of essence).
 
* 1. They are shapechangers, but based on the forms of their lunar creators, so thier "Base" form is a beastman-- unlike lunars they don't have a human "true form". (which rather constrains their ability to hide out in hostile areas especially if they blow lots of essence).
 
* 2.  They are more focused-- I so far have four castes, of which each one is oriented towards a function-- the warriors get the DBT cheap, but they also spend more on other charms, while the mystics get occult charms cheaply, but spend more on physical.   
 
* 2.  They are more focused-- I so far have four castes, of which each one is oriented towards a function-- the warriors get the DBT cheap, but they also spend more on other charms, while the mystics get occult charms cheaply, but spend more on physical.   
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1.  Maybe let them have attribute based charms as is, and depend on thier lower essence, higher XP costs and the fact that  Celestial lunars, as they get more powerful, gain charms they just can't get?
 
1.  Maybe let them have attribute based charms as is, and depend on thier lower essence, higher XP costs and the fact that  Celestial lunars, as they get more powerful, gain charms they just can't get?
  
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Another option might be to two-step things. One of the tricks with Lunars is that with only 9 charms, you can get an excellency for dang-near everything, unlike Ability-based Exalts, which need 25 excellencies. Thus, I might suggest something like a Lesser First Excellency and a Greater First Excellency - one gives you a small die cap, or a poor mote-to-dice conversion rate, while the second sets you up like a Lunar. -- [[GreenLantern]]
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Another option might be to two-step things. One of the tricks with Lunars is that with only 9 charms, you can get an excellency for dang-near everything, unlike Ability-based Exalts, which need 25 excellencies. Thus, I might suggest something like a Lesser First Excellency and a Greater First Excellency - one gives you a small die cap, or a poor mote-to-dice conversion rate, while the second sets you up like a Lunar. -- GreenLantern
  
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That's a thought-- it does run into the question of why the godblooded get full powered lunar excellencies (of course I could just say that they get them, but since they can't combo them, the terrestrial blooded still come out ahead).  Maybe something like increasing the mote cost to two motes, and then having a permanent charm at oh, say, essence 3 where it goes down to one mote charm? By that time the celestial lunars will  have outstripped the terrestrial cousins due to their better XP charm cost and generally more powerful charms. -- [[CharlesGray]]
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That's a thought-- it does run into the question of why the godblooded get full powered lunar excellencies (of course I could just say that they get them, but since they can't combo them, the terrestrial blooded still come out ahead).  Maybe something like increasing the mote cost to two motes, and then having a permanent charm at oh, say, essence 3 where it goes down to one mote charm? By that time the celestial lunars will  have outstripped the terrestrial cousins due to their better XP charm cost and generally more powerful charms. -- CharlesGray
  
 
:: Hmmm, so focused? That is like canon Lunars, Charles, and that is everything I tried to stay *away* from. If you just want Empowered Beastmen - remember that can be done with my rules. There is a Charm, [[LunarTotem/GoldenCat|Children of the Silver Moon]] which makes Beastmen who Channel Essence and have animas. The Charms are all there. You can make an Essence 6 version that works, like, once a year and makes them out of a normal person if you wish.<br><br>Now, if you want to make EXALTED out of them, you will need flavor. You will need purpose. And you will need not to shoehorn the poor bastards so much! Exalted are cool and flexible. If you are going to make them so, you have to think on what they *are*. Terrestrial means more than weaker, you know. The Terrestrial Exalted are... physical. Which is a reason Alchies should've been, too. They are... this world.<br><br>Terrestrial Exalted should be something similar. Like... Vital Exalted. The Exalted of life. They should be separated by type of being, not aptitude. Probably make their cascades Dragon-King like, since you can only go so far.<br><br>Like... Avians, lords of the Sky, all with a basic package of bird-like mutations, and the ability to fly really fast or command birds in their anima. Cascades to control birds and ride their minds, to throw sharpened feather, to have impossible eyesights. Swarm, lords of insects, all with a basic package of insect-like mutations, abilities to create hive-minds, silent communication, control swarms of insects, consume, destroy. Cascades for natural armor and weapons, intimidation... Shroud, lords of fungus, terrestrial equivalents of Endings, dealing with decay, cleaning physical things away from the world, bane of the undead, able to consume dead matter so quickly, able to change and damage living matter... all sorts of things! Maybe an extra type of lower-end Celestial for 'Wyld Exalts' too, which is also a Lunar thing. But if you are going to make Exalted... make EXALTED! Otherwise, just use super-beastmen, seriously >.> -- [[GoldenCat]]
 
:: Hmmm, so focused? That is like canon Lunars, Charles, and that is everything I tried to stay *away* from. If you just want Empowered Beastmen - remember that can be done with my rules. There is a Charm, [[LunarTotem/GoldenCat|Children of the Silver Moon]] which makes Beastmen who Channel Essence and have animas. The Charms are all there. You can make an Essence 6 version that works, like, once a year and makes them out of a normal person if you wish.<br><br>Now, if you want to make EXALTED out of them, you will need flavor. You will need purpose. And you will need not to shoehorn the poor bastards so much! Exalted are cool and flexible. If you are going to make them so, you have to think on what they *are*. Terrestrial means more than weaker, you know. The Terrestrial Exalted are... physical. Which is a reason Alchies should've been, too. They are... this world.<br><br>Terrestrial Exalted should be something similar. Like... Vital Exalted. The Exalted of life. They should be separated by type of being, not aptitude. Probably make their cascades Dragon-King like, since you can only go so far.<br><br>Like... Avians, lords of the Sky, all with a basic package of bird-like mutations, and the ability to fly really fast or command birds in their anima. Cascades to control birds and ride their minds, to throw sharpened feather, to have impossible eyesights. Swarm, lords of insects, all with a basic package of insect-like mutations, abilities to create hive-minds, silent communication, control swarms of insects, consume, destroy. Cascades for natural armor and weapons, intimidation... Shroud, lords of fungus, terrestrial equivalents of Endings, dealing with decay, cleaning physical things away from the world, bane of the undead, able to consume dead matter so quickly, able to change and damage living matter... all sorts of things! Maybe an extra type of lower-end Celestial for 'Wyld Exalts' too, which is also a Lunar thing. But if you are going to make Exalted... make EXALTED! Otherwise, just use super-beastmen, seriously >.> -- [[GoldenCat]]
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:Heh-- those are some very, very nice ideas, which I might take and steal-- I already had an idea for a "fae exalted" in which the unshaped Raksha decided to see if there was a way to match these "exalted" who were always messing with thier thing.  I'm still thinking of that, though some of hte charms are giving me a little problem (should they use fae charms, if not why?  what about things like assumption charms, etc.)
 
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:But for this setting, the idea of terrestrial (as the power level) lunars came from an old discussion in which people were claiming that they really were only terrestrials. (IU've never seen that-- it's more, like you pointed out that lunars are just a bit to focused in the canon material).
 
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:Now I'll have to give two reasons , on meta-setting and on "in canon" for my desire.  The Meta setting idea is that this creation is vast, huge-- beyond comprehension and there are many, many scary things in it.  Greatest among htem are the celestial exalt.  The sidereal who can detroy armies with kung-fu and call down astrological curses on entire nations.  The Alchemicals, former allies of the solars who have formed themselves into engines of destruction or entire manse complexes,  and the lunars, not simply beast people, but literal gods of nature, beings before which heroic mortals (to say nothing of others) fling thesmelves on their knees until the lunar says "fear not".  (or says, "yeah, fear me, you Guild slave trading Beyotch...")
 
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:But while Exalted has a lot of dragon bloods, the other "mid range" enemies are a bit light-- heroic mortals, fae, some gods... and well, as terrestrials, and since some writers have implied that the terrestrial exaltation wasn't beyond the power of the celestials, I figured that maybe the first age saw more than a few...new terrestrials rise.  it also provides more allies and enemies that don't seem quite so much like transplanted realm dynasts-- (and I have to admit, I like the idea of more lunar style people running around). It also explains why the realm has been so successful against powerful celestial exalts-- they, by and large, haven't been fighting them. 
 
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:Now In game, and using your charms and esepcially Celestial Behemoth Ascension and it's successors (I figure that somewhere in there you'd get more of an ability to actually claim an entire domain, or else use more spells innately-- maybe an essence 9-10 charm that gives you deathlord level immortality).  The Great Lunars of hte first age, striding forth in the wyld, preparing it for the expansion of creation were literaly Gods.  Mighty and powerful and they needed servants (and yes, there was also the slight tinge of envy because everyone know the twilights NEVER stop reminding everyone that they're the best at every thing, yadda yadda-- that's another thing I did with my setting-- Bioengineering is very much a lunar thing, and they're the best at it). So these mighty beast gods crafted their servants out of their own flesh and blood, infusing others, either newborn of loyal servants with some shard of their power...and the children of the Lunars became very much liek the dragon blooded, children of gods, even if lesser gods than the incarna.
 
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And in the age of sorrows, teh thing is, many of these children are orphaned-- the great lunar powers were struck down in the usurpation, by the fae, by the long tide of years...and they left their children, still breeding, still living.  Some strike at the realm, some exist as best they can, but many of them feel orphaned, without purpose, and others try to find that purpose.
 
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:So manybe instead of having them be solely cast based, have a lot of their favored attributes be focused on what thier original God-Beast father/mother wanted them to be and what she was like.  On the other hand, I really want to avoid charm clouds, and I know my players so at least one caste will have to be able to DBT, simply to save me from the Resplondent Player Whining Prana.
 
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:I'm not entirely certain-- I know what I want...but articulating it or getting there is a bit difficult. [[CharlesGray]]
 
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Well, misterable coughs that keep me up have some usefulness after all. Here's a thought-- each breed of Resplendent Celestial Children (the official new non-generic name for Terrestrial lunars), is specially crafted by a lunar who has become  an avatar of his own breed of animal. They are examples of his own inner nature, not simply things built in a lab.  Because of that...
 
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They have no caste or only one caste-- each and every one does.  The Resplendent Celestial Children of a lunar who is a mighty celestial tiger, spreading terror and power throughout the fronteir gain anima powers (in addition to their mutation) in line with thier creator... so instead of one or two or five castes, they have <i>as many castes as there were original creators </i>.  Thier favored attributes are thoseof their creator (at least the base three), and so they forever reflect, at least partially, their creators driving passions. Sound better?  --[[CharlesGray]]
 
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:Actually, I had another thought, based on your idea of flavor charm trees-- perhaps in addition to a anima power tied to their parent, they also get a single charm tree tied to their parent. so as per your suggestion: "Avians, lords of the Sky, all with a basic package of bird-like mutations, and the ability to fly really fast or command birds in their anima. Cascades to control birds and ride their minds, to throw sharpened feather, to have impossible eyesights."  That's what teh Children of Calatha, the Lunar who Flew to the Sun get as a favored charm tree, and they're the only ones to get it.  Other Celestial Children might (and probably do) have equivelents in the basic charm trees, but not so tightly organized and not so cheap-- this charm tree is not only favored, but it's favored at a base XP cost. (Think an inborn MA pattern).  Nobody else but teh Celestial Children of the lunar in question can modify it, because it's part of their being. (gah, more charm trees, and I suck at charm mechanics.  Anyone want to help me :) ).  --[[CharlesGray]]
 

Revision as of 00:12, 12 January 2007

Essentially for my alternate setting, one of the things I have is that the various Exalted did create their own "exalted" servitors and allies during the first age. The Solars eventually created the Alchemical Exalts (which help from the Mountain Folk) the Siderals created an as yet undefined "fate ninja" to help them, and specific to this, the Lunars created their own terrestrial version of the servants of luna. Now, I'm using GoldenCat's Lunars for the celestial lunars, but I'm still working a bit on my terrestrial lunars. So far, I have the following ideas:

  • 1. They are shapechangers, but based on the forms of their lunar creators, so thier "Base" form is a beastman-- unlike lunars they don't have a human "true form". (which rather constrains their ability to hide out in hostile areas especially if they blow lots of essence).
  • 2. They are more focused-- I so far have four castes, of which each one is oriented towards a function-- the warriors get the DBT cheap, but they also spend more on other charms, while the mystics get occult charms cheaply, but spend more on physical.
  • 3. They all have a single, favored "shapechanging" charm tree which allows them to take different forms that they have drank the hearts blood of, but those forms ahve to be normal, and non-essence manipulating. 
Any other suggestions?
The biggest problem I'm seeing i the fact that lunars are attribute based. Now to keep the lunar "feel" they should also be attribute based, but that makes them (unless something is changed) equal to the lunars in dice pools, at least in terms of excellencies. Yet cutting the dice they get from attributes down too far renders them at a disadvantage compared to the DB's with their charms.

1. Maybe let them have attribute based charms as is, and depend on thier lower essence, higher XP costs and the fact that Celestial lunars, as they get more powerful, gain charms they just can't get?

Another option might be to two-step things. One of the tricks with Lunars is that with only 9 charms, you can get an excellency for dang-near everything, unlike Ability-based Exalts, which need 25 excellencies. Thus, I might suggest something like a Lesser First Excellency and a Greater First Excellency - one gives you a small die cap, or a poor mote-to-dice conversion rate, while the second sets you up like a Lunar. -- GreenLantern

That's a thought-- it does run into the question of why the godblooded get full powered lunar excellencies (of course I could just say that they get them, but since they can't combo them, the terrestrial blooded still come out ahead). Maybe something like increasing the mote cost to two motes, and then having a permanent charm at oh, say, essence 3 where it goes down to one mote charm? By that time the celestial lunars will have outstripped the terrestrial cousins due to their better XP charm cost and generally more powerful charms. -- CharlesGray

Hmmm, so focused? That is like canon Lunars, Charles, and that is everything I tried to stay *away* from. If you just want Empowered Beastmen - remember that can be done with my rules. There is a Charm, Children of the Silver Moon which makes Beastmen who Channel Essence and have animas. The Charms are all there. You can make an Essence 6 version that works, like, once a year and makes them out of a normal person if you wish.

Now, if you want to make EXALTED out of them, you will need flavor. You will need purpose. And you will need not to shoehorn the poor bastards so much! Exalted are cool and flexible. If you are going to make them so, you have to think on what they *are*. Terrestrial means more than weaker, you know. The Terrestrial Exalted are... physical. Which is a reason Alchies should've been, too. They are... this world.

Terrestrial Exalted should be something similar. Like... Vital Exalted. The Exalted of life. They should be separated by type of being, not aptitude. Probably make their cascades Dragon-King like, since you can only go so far.

Like... Avians, lords of the Sky, all with a basic package of bird-like mutations, and the ability to fly really fast or command birds in their anima. Cascades to control birds and ride their minds, to throw sharpened feather, to have impossible eyesights. Swarm, lords of insects, all with a basic package of insect-like mutations, abilities to create hive-minds, silent communication, control swarms of insects, consume, destroy. Cascades for natural armor and weapons, intimidation... Shroud, lords of fungus, terrestrial equivalents of Endings, dealing with decay, cleaning physical things away from the world, bane of the undead, able to consume dead matter so quickly, able to change and damage living matter... all sorts of things! Maybe an extra type of lower-end Celestial for 'Wyld Exalts' too, which is also a Lunar thing. But if you are going to make Exalted... make EXALTED! Otherwise, just use super-beastmen, seriously >.> -- GoldenCat
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