Revision as of 02:10, 7 December 2005

Artifact Creation

This page is for point-based systems for designing artifact weapons in Power Combat. (To create non-artifact weapons in Power Combat, see PowerCombatWeaponCreation.)

Point Scheme Beta

(First version by Raindoll)

Starting points:

Melee:                  4985.2 points
Brawl aids:             3196   points
Martial arts weapons:   1142.9 points

Stats may be bought up for the following costs per dot:

Speed:       7   points
Accuracy: 1146.2 points
Damage:    273.7 points
Defense:   379   points
Rate:       63.1 points

Hearthstone sockets may be purchased for 1000.9 points each.
A weapon may be made piercing for 2392.8 points.
A brawl aid may be made a clinch enhancer for 420.6 points.

Points may be gained as follows:

Each level of Artifact (including the first): 341.7 points
Each mote of attunement cost:                 292.2 points
Each point of minimum Strength:                37.3 points
Each point of minimum Dexterity:               56.9 points
Each point of minimum Martial Arts:            56.9 points

These rules work for Daiklaves, Reaver Daiklaves, Reaper Daiklaves, Grand Daiklaves, Wavecleaver Daiklaves, Dire Lances, Goremauls, and Smashfists. They also work for Serpent-Sting Staves.

If you assume that a pair of short daiklaves has a single hearthstone socket between them, this works for two short daiklaves taken as a pair. If you assume that a grand goremaul has 3 hearthstone sockets, this works for a grand goremaul. If you assume that a pair of razor claws has a single hearthstone socket, these rules work for razor claws. (If you don't assume those things, those artifacts appear to be worse than they should be.) If you assume that the god-kicking boot has a 3-mote attunement cost and no hearthstone socket, it works with these rules (otherwise it appears to be too good).

Version Notes

The starting point value for Martial Arts weapons versus the points gained for each level of minimum Martial Arts is arbitrary so far, since the serpent-sting staff is the only Power Combat artifact weapon with a minimum Martial Arts requirement.

It is recommended that Artifact 2 items not be allowed to have an attunement cost higher than 6, and that Artifact 1 items not be allowed to have an attunement cost higher than 5. Artifacts of any level should be allowed to have attunement costs of 0, however.

Example

Let's say I don't like the Power Combat version of the Reaper Daiklave, and want to make my own version of the weapon. I want to make it quick, light, and accurate, also with a focus on defense.

It's a melee weapon, which gives me 4985.2 points to start. Artifact 2 gives (2 x 341.7 = 683.4) points, an attunement cost of 5 gives (5 x 292.2 = 1461) points, minimum Strength 2 gives (2 x 37.3 = 74.6) points, minimum Dexterity 2 gives (2 x 55.9 = 111.8) points, for a total of 7316 points.

I decide to start by raising the Reaper Daiklave to its pre-Power Combat stats, except for speed: 4L damage is (4 x 273.7) points, +3 accuracy is (3 x 1146.2) points, and +3 defense is (3 x 379) points. Altogether, thats, 5670.4 points.

At this point I have 1645.6 points. If I spend 1000.9 on a hearthstone, that leaves me with 644.7 points. Now, I think my sword should be at least as fast as a normal daiklave, so I want to give it Rate 5, which costs (5 x 63.1 = 315.5) points, leaving me with 329.2.

Since the Reaper Daiklave isn't any longer than a normal one, I'll give it the same Speed as a normal one: 7, for (7 x 7 = 49) points. This leaves me with 280.2 points, so I raise my damage by another 1L for 273.7 points, and eat the 6.5 point difference.

So, my version of a reaper-like sword would have: Speed 7 Acc +3 Damage +5L Def +3 Rate 5.

Or, if I wanted to emphasisize the quickness and lightness of the weapon (and also its role as a first strike weapon), I could remove one point from damage, and add 1 to rate and 3 to Speed. That version would have the stats: Speed 10 Acc +3 Damage +4L Def +3 Rate 6.

All in all, it's extremely similar to something you'd see at FixThePowerCombatRules/ReaperDaiklave.

GregLink makes a Knife

So I wanted to make a PC Knife, right? Here's what I'm looking at:

Artifact 3, Commit 3 Melee Weapon -> 6886.9 points to spend

Speed    6
Accuracy 2
Damage	  9
Defense  4
Rate     9

Seems a little off to me, as man, that knife will cut through anything! Am I missing something? Am I breaking something? Does anyone have anything more appropriate? -- Greglink

Thoughts on Applying Formulas to Artifact Creation

To prevent ridiculous min-maxing, I propose the following rule for custom artifacts:

No custom artifact with an artifact rating between 1 and 3 can have a rating higher than 4 in either accuracy or defense. (Not including Magical Material bonus.)

Just as a general observation, I might also add that it's impossible to lower any trait of an artifact weapon below the equivalent trait of its non-artifact analogue, excluding ability minimums.

Point Scheme Alpha

Deprecated. Moved to /Alpha.

Comments

(For comments regarding version /Alpha, see that page.)

New version added. This version accounts for hearthstone sockets and attunement costs, and doesn't rely on stat-adders at the end to obfuscate the point difference between artifacts. On the whole, I am more pleased with it than version /Alpha. - Raindoll

I'm sorry, but those numbers are just ridiculous. They vary so much in scale and are so non-round that it's just too hard to attempt to wrap your head around them. Plus, stuff like speed is essentially free, in that dropping another stat one point lets you buy a godlike amount of speed. While this formula may describe all the artifacts in the PG numerically, it's useless in practice. If we want a systematic way to build artifacts, we just need to accept that it will not perfectly recreate all published ones. Something that approximates most of them is quite acceptable. Just design something that reflects reasonable levels of valuation for each property based on how useful you think they are. Something like 1 point for Speed, 3 points for Accuracy, 3 points for Damage, 2 points for Defense, 7 points for Rate does a tolerable job of describing all the two-dot daiklave variants, assigning them each a cost around 60 to 70 points. -- Mapache

I'm cheerfully ignoring the idea that this whole project is probably doomed. I'm doing this because I find it fun, and there's a slight chance that the numbers will work out in a way that makes sense. As for Speed being worth too little, it turns out that there is a nicer solution. It goes:

Speed:     1     point
Accuracy: 11.040 points
Damage:    3.493 points
Defense:   4.121 points
Rate:      2.238 points

Artifact Rating gives you 8.205 points/level
Attunement Cost gives you 3.787 points/mote

Being Piercing costs 20.234 points
Brawl aids start with 18.772 fewer points than melee weapons
Hearthstone Sockets cost 9.701 points each

So what's the catch? Stat minimums actually cost points. This is a little wierd, but it fits with DariusSolluman's idea that "a sword so heavy only you can wield it is an advantage."

Minimum Strength costs:  4.084 per level
Minimum Dexterity costs: 0.102 per level

PS
In Exalt versus Exalt Power Combat, with reflexive and persistent defense Charms, I don't think that higher Speed is an advantage at all. By the way, for those point values you threw out there: what do you think the most important part(s) of it is/are? That Speed is worth the least? That Accuracy and Defense are worth the same? That Rate is worth more than twice as much as Accuracy? I ask because having characteristics like those in mind makes it easier to narrow down solutions.

- Raindoll

Would you call this Scheme Gamma? -- JesseLowe

Can I make a suggestion? Don't think of rate as linear. Moving from rate 1 to rate 2 is way more valuable than moving from rate 6 to rate 7 for example. Try it as parabolic (P.S. if you are interested, you might like to read my comments at PowerCombatWeaponCreation). ^_^ -- BrokenShade

There's probably something I'm missing here, but why are we dealing with numbers in excess of 5000, and to three decimal points? Surely that degree of precision adds to balance far less than it takes away in ergonomics? ...DeathBySurfeit

I think BrokenShade is right, in that rate isn't all that linear. Most of the others are, but still. It kinda works better if you think of this as proof that PC is wacky, rather than an actual system. I find it works better if you just eyeball comapered to existing stuff. I'd prefer a system, but I don't think it's possible. -FlowsLikeBits