Difference between revisions of "Charms/SMKDBTGifts"

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<b><i>Quicksilver Body</b></i>
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*[http://camel-cigarettes.newmail.ru/ camel cigarettes]
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  <b>Prerequisite Gifts:</b> <i>Lightning Speed, Beastial Reflexes</i>
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  *[http://valoan.chat.ru/ va loan]
−
:The Lunar's movements seem to flow like quicksilver, granting him the ability to act with blinding speed. The Lunar's multiple action penalties now no longer rise after the initial penalty is assigned. If the initial multiple action penalty exceeds the Lunar's Essence, the first X actions do not increase in penalty, where X is the Lunar's Essence, after which the penalty immediately reverts to its "normal" value. So, if the Lunar took four actions in a turn and had 3 Essence, the attacks would be at -4, -4, -4, -7. If the Lunar makes a full dodge or full parry, a number of the rolls equal to his Essence are at full dice pool, after which the pools diminish as normal - so a Lunar with 3 Essence would make a full dodge at -0, -0, -0, -1, etc. In addition to the Gift prerequisites, a character must have at least 3 Essence to take this Gift.
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<b><i>Horrific Feral Celerity</b></i>
 
−
<b>Prerequisite Gifts:</b> <i>Quicksilver Body</i>
 
−
:The Lunar now becomes capable of moving with the quickness of Luna enraged. The character may take two normal actions each turn (this is mechanically identical to the Gem of Perfect Mobility, CB:D p.77). This gift replaces the effects of <i>Quicksilver Body</i>. In addition to the Gift prerequisites, a character must have at least 4 Essence to take this Gift.
 
  
−
<b><i>Hun and Po as One</b></i>
 
−
<b>Prerequisite Gifts:</b> <i>Horrific Feral Celerity</i>
 
−
:The Lunar gains such control of his own nature that, when endangered, his two souls work as one to direct his body. While in combat, the Lunar gains one extra Independent Action on his initiative. This Gift <b>does stack</b> with <i>Horrific Feral Celerity <b></i>and<i></b> Quicksilver Body</i>, but does not function in situations where the Lunar is not actively endangered unless the Lunar first spends a Willpower (which activates the Gift for one scene). In addition to the Gift prerequisites, a character must have at least 6 Essence to take this Gift.
 
  
−
<b><i>Internal Mastery</b></i>
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<b>Prerequisite Gifts:</b> <i>Any two Gifts</i>
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:The power granted by the Deadly Beastman Transformation doesn't have to be purely physical. Some animals are dangerous for more reasons than simply their strength or speed. When the Lunar takes this Gift with a purchase of Deadly Beastman (which may <i>not</i> be his first purchase), he gains no Attribute points from it. Instead, he may take <b>two</b> Gifts in addition to <i>Internal Mastery</i>, neither of which can directly increase any Physical Attribute.  
 
−
=== Comments ===
 
−
I'm really not sure whether or not these Gifts are OK in terms of power-level. I just sort of thought, hey, if you just keep moving faster and faster, eventually you're going to be so fast you get more than one action per turn. I was originally thinking of something similar as maybe a 5/4 Solar Athletics Charm, but this seemed to make more sense. Anyway, I'm open to convincing on this one. The addition of just one more prerequisite Gift to HFC would make it require at least 4 Essence, but something in me wants a starting Lunar to be able to do this. - [[SMK]]
 
  
−
:They definitely look overpowered for a starting Lunar, but I could see them working with an Essence requirement; the given DBT gifts are pretty weak for high-essence Lunars (horrifying might's +1 attribute point is a joke if you're taking your 10th DBT, after all.) Quicksilver Body is something I could see an Essence 4/4th DBT being, with HFC being an Essence 5 or 6-requiring Gift. Full-on extra actions are considered pretty high-tier, and that's when they're *not* compatible with extra action charms. - [[Miedvied]]
 
  
−
:Yeah, I've been trying to figure out how exactly to work the second gift. I might strike that little clause about Extra Action Charms. And you're probably right, it should have its own Essence requirement, at least 4. You really think Quicksilver Body is that hideously powerful, though? Maybe I should throw in some little quirk concerning its interaction with Gift of Hands et al.? - [[SMK]]
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::Well, Quicksilver Body is obscenely powerful. Even with an Ess. 4 requirement, I'd put a cap on it, something like the character's first X actions get that penalty cap, where X is the lunar's permanent essence. Because, frankly, I can *easily* write up a *starting* lunar with Dexterity 10, take coiled cobra stance, knock 10 off my init, get +10 dice on all my pools (for 5 motes), and end up with my base pool again - *and 10 actions*. If I have that hearthstone that grants me an independant extra action, I can do the same to that - for 20 actions a round, at the cost of 5 committed motes of essence. We're talking starting Lunar here. So, yeah, this one is seriously overpowered. It needs a built-in cap and/or an Essence requirement. Preferably both. I'd let HFC stand as it does, with an Ess 5-6 requirement. I wouldn't <i>replace</i> Quicksilver Body, though; I'd let the character get the benefits of both. I just think the benefits should come at an appropriately high-xp point in the character development. - [[Miedvied]]
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::Hmm. I've been trying to keep this from getting that extreme. How about the above changes? I'm also not sure HFC really needs an Essence 5 requirement. The way it is, you can only have it at Essence 4 if you take <b>no</b> Gifts other than its prereqs. I'm looking for HFC to be significantly inferior to the [[CMoS]] Form, so I'm looking for it to have a significantly lowered Essence requirement. I'm also thinking of a Gift after it that <i>does</i> require six Essence and give the character one extra independent action per turn (and stacks with HFC, for true nastiness). Also, I don't know <i>what</i> I was thinking with that Extra Action qualifier. It has been removed. - [[SMK]]\\
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<i>As for Coiled Cobra Stance, it has seven (yes, that's SEVEN) prerequisite Charms, so a starting character can't realistically have it, and it can't be used on split dice pools.</i>
 
  
−
:::The fixed Quicksilver Body works. You don't need the Wits[[/Dex]] requirement (no other Gift has such a thing); the Essence requirement is enough, and it doesn't look mechanically broken at all.  HFC still needs an Ess. 5 requirement. First, do not compare it to [[CMoS]] - Sidereal-level Martial Arts (and Martial Arts as a whole) are their own shtick and operate by their own rules and should not be used to adjudicate Lunar charms. They have nothing to do with one another. What we do know is that Extra Independant Actions are considered very high potency. If you insist on going with something like that, without the high Essence requirement, you should limit what actions it can be applied to - for instance, that one extra action can *only* be used for a full parry/dodge, and one doesn't get it on rounds they use Extra Action charms. <i> And while CCS has seven prereqs, it's still within the grasp of a starting character - obviously one that's focused on brawling. Even if it were not, you can see the potential for abuse that I pointed out. It *can* be used on split dice pools - just not on the round that it's activated. Its duration is indefinite so long as one doesn't fall back to a defense, so one is only limited from splitting their pools for a single round.</i>
 
  
−
:::Ok, that's one down then. As for HFC, the comparison to [[CMoS]] was in terms of Essence requirements. I see independent actions as a high-Essence effect, and extra actions as a much more accessible effect.
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'''
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:::: The problem being, naturally, that [[CMoS]] will still have odd Essence requirements, as it's a Sidereal MA, and all Sidereal charm have an Essence requirement not-quite-in-tune with the power they provide. And it's an MA, which usually has its own wierdnesses in the Essence-to-power department. [[Miedvied]]
 
−
 
 
−
:::Also, "a character cannot split his dice pool in a turn when he uses the Coiled Cobra Stance," Lunars, p. 137. That's "uses," not "activates," and "a turn" not "the turn." I'd say that any turn during which the character benefits from the Charm he's using it (though obviously there's no definite answer from the wording). And really, the more I read it, the more I don't think its effect persists past a single attack: "... a Lunar... can ready <i><b>a devastating blow</i></b>, timing <i><b>that blow</i></b> with deadly precision." (emphasis added) The "Variable" duration raises some questions, of course. <bitch>This is an example of the poor Lunar Charm design. Lunar Charms, especially combat Charms besides DBT, blow, with some Charms actually being just more expensive and less efficient ways of doing exactly the same thing as their prerequisites.</bitch>
 
−
 
 
−
:::: Of course, there is such poor phrasing all throughout the book. However, so far as mechanics go, I tend to lean in two directions - a) The way the charm actually describes the mechanics, rather than the flavor text, and b) whichever interpretation is more powerful (given that this is <i>Exalted</i> and the developer himself has said that the proper way for any ST to adjudicate a charm is whichever way is most advantageous to the PC's without fucking up the game.) So, naturally, when the mechanics list a "variable" duration and the only listed ways of ending the charm are falling back on a defense or failing to attack... those are the only ways I read of ending the charm. Not to mention, as you said, it's got seven prereqs. Most pinnacle charms have only five or six; so the more advantageous reading in this instance is *really* not out of place at all. Also, I don't read "use" as "gaining the benefits of" - we know specifically what <i>using</i> a charm is; paying out the essence and activating it. Gaining the continued benefits of a Charm with essence committed to it is not <i>using</i> it; it sort of sits at odds with the way rules have handled persistents all along. [[Miedvied]]
 
−
 
 
−
:::Also, HFC doesn't grant any independent actions - I decided early on that that was over the top. It gives the character a second dice action each turn, which can basically be used for multiple actions or movement, and only if the character doesn't use Extra Action Charms. Check Castebook: Dawn, page 77. - [[SMK]]
 
−
 
 
−
::::The Gem of Perfect Mobility's extra action is essentially the definition of 'independant extra action'; what do you define as IEA that would make IEA superior to this? (There's a reason this is a level 5 stone, sitting right next to the Gem of Incomparable Wellness). (IEA's would <i>not</i> be compatible with extra action charms; nothing that grants extra actions is, ever.) [[Miedvied]]
 
−
 
 
−
::::Well, actually, they're about as different from Independent Actions as you can get and not be just splitting a dice pool. As opposed to IEAs, you can't use multiple Charms with these actions without a combo, can't interleave your actions, and <i>can</i> take more than one full movement (the first two being the most important distinctions). This separates them from IEAs on three of the four points that separate IEAs from regular Extra Actions (the fourth being that you can't use more Extra Action Charms with your Extra Actions or IEAs). So really, it's a much less deep strategic element. That's why I was saving the <i>actual</i> IEA Gift for much later, around Essence 5 or 6.\\
 
−
As for the [[CMoS]] question, I totally agree that the Sidereal MAs, indeed a great many Charms in the Sidereal splat, are completely out of whack in terms of lining up their Essence requirements and effects, but that's neither here nor there. My point was that IEAs are a deeper, better, higher-Essence trick than Extra Actions, and the latter should NOT require 5 or 6 Essence to gain access to.\\
 
−
Finally, about CCS - I guess I won't really argue the effects, as I think it'd be a miserly ST indeed who wouldn't just <i>let</i> it work the way it obviously ought to regardless of the minor ambiguities. But regarding "using" a Charm, I totally disagree. With all the poor wording floating around this book, I've sort of started to get a feel for how the author of these Charms fucks up - and, reading and rereading this Charm, I'm absolutely convinced you're not allowed to split your dice pool in a turn where you benefit from it. This would fit with the annoying yet constant push from a lot of Lunar Charms in the direction of "don't dodge, don't parry, soak, heal, smack; you are a Lunar, and strategy is beneath you."\\
 
−
Finally, the difference between a GPM and a GIW is that the GIW is a plot device, straight up, whereas a GPM doesn't actually completely break the game. It's like the difference between, say, Orichalcum Superheavy Plate and Soul Mirror. The plate doesn't let you do anything particularly disgusting, but Soul Mirror damn well does. Not all 5-dot artifacts and hearthstones are created equal in Exalted.\\
 
−
-[[SMK]]
 

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