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| − | Well, I was thinking about it and I've decided that the only way to properly test issues of balance and playability for my Homebrew MA styles is to use them as intended, in combat.
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| − | === The Setup ===
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| − | *Starting Build (Merits, Flaws, Sourcebooks, go nuts) + 150 xp
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| − | *Martial-Arts focused character, at least 2/3rds of all charms must be MA, or the entire tree mastered, whichever is less
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| − | *Weapons Allowed - By MA, Artifacts allowed
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| − | *Armor Allowed - By MA, Artifacts allowed
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| − | *Warm-Up Time: To be determined by players through fluff
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| − | *Rules: Power Combat + House Rules to be determined by Storyteller
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| − | *Sorcery is allowed, but no sorceries active before combat
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| − | *Hearthstones and Hearthstone Bracers / Amulets are allowed
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| − | *No: Allies, Retainers, Tiger Warriors, Familiars, ect. You can't bring anyone in to help you fight. No Warstriders either =)
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| − | Storyteller: At this point, [[Ambisinister]] and I will probably ST for each other's actions, unless I can get a volunteer. Once we've got more people interested in this, we can probably trade of STing with other combatants.
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| − | === The Setting ===
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| − | A Half-Destroyed First-age courtyard within 3 days travel from Nexus. This at one point may have been a colleseum of some sort, maybe even a place where similar duels were held long ago.
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| − | (also, do we want to do this a post-at-a-time or in a chat room somewhere?)
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| − | I'm fine with either. Play by post is probably the simplest option. Plus if we need to put anything to wiki vote it's easily available. Play by chat is fine as well, harder to get other people involved if we go that route. If we do run via chat we'll probably have to wait till next week to settle things as I'm going to be away from home this week. If we play by post I should be able to keep up over the course of the week in my spare time.- [[Ambisinister]]
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| − | === Our First Combatant... ===
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| − | [[BrigandRansom/DanTaiTBFTest]]
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| − | === And his current opponent... ===
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| − | [[Ambisinister/KreeTheExacting | Kree the Exacting]]
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| − | = Comments =
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| − | Well, I think that's about it. I didn't post this in my character section because Dan Tai isn't really at 150xp yet, this is just a build for testing the MA style. Fluff away if you like [[Kurulham]].~ BrigandRansom
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| − | Erm... [[Kurulham]]? Helooooooo.....
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| − | :My MA is almost finished and I'm not opposed to the little match you suggested once it's done.-[[Ambisinister]]
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| − | Sorry for disappearing over the weekend, got wicked sick and wicked drunk for my birthday. Not sick from the drinking, flu-sick. So [[Ambisinister]], shall I change the fluff and setting? I wrote the fluff with [[Kurulham]]'s Air Immaculate in mind. ~ BrigandRansom , Recovering and blowing his nose
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| − | :No worries. Something worth considering: I did design the style as an Alchemical Style. Should I build an Alchie or a Solar? An equal points solar is probably the purest method for testing style vs. style. -[[Ambisinister]]
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| − | Ohman, sorry I spaced out on responding. By all means, make whatever you want following the guidelines posted at the top. Please do note however that I built Dan Tai as a normal solar when he should be a Sequestered Tabernacle Solar. To be honest, I did him that way just out of laziness =P
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| − | As for the Immaculate part, I was originally intending to test Dawn Fist against a Canon style. However I think that there's a pretty good quality of work done here, considering all of the exposition on crunch done by many of our Wikizens. Solar, Alchie, Infernal if you want =) ~ BrigandRansom, getting around to answering stuff now that he's feeling better
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| − | Hmmm, anything I want eh? Go go Alchie-Converted-Solar! Seriously though, I've written up both a Solar (Kree the Exacting, a Twilight) and an Alchemical (Inexorable Advance of Progress, a Jade caste) practioner of the style. Since you issued the challenge, you pick the opponent. Quick question regarding artifacts: are you cool with other types of non-weapon or armor artifacts besides amulets and hearthstone bracers?-[[Ambisinister]]<i>who will get some stats posted sometime today</i>
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| − | :In case it colors your decision, the Alchemical will be at a slight disadvantage because of his increased charm and essence costs.-[[Ambisinister]]
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| − | Well as Dan Tai would say, "I have no need of any advantage. Come at me with all your might, we shall see which one of us is truly just." Go ahead and do the Solar =). Any suggestions or ideas for fluff? ~ BrigandRansom ~ <i>Splitting his dice pools between Wiki and English 101 homework </i>
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| − | :Solar it is. Do you have a problem with me using other custom charms? In particular I was thinking of utilizing some of my [[SolarAthletics/Ambisinister|Athletics]] and [[SolarMiscellaneous/Ambisinister|Miscellaneous]] charms. As for fluff, how about setting it up as some sort of fighting competition. That way you can weave a unifying theme throughout all of the combats you run here.-[[Ambisinister]]
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| − | Sounds good, I'll work p a bit of flff for that. In the meantime, I think it might be a good Idea to use "Summon Impartial Demon of the Third Party" to ST for us. Possibly FrivYeti , since he's got the expeience from the FaFL battles? Whatever ST we may get for this could of course, modify the House Rules and such that will be used ~ BrigandRansom , <i>hoping that his strategy will offset the SEVEN LEAPING DRAGON STONE?????</i>
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| − | :GregLink might not be a bad idea for a judge if he's willing. He did help both of us work out the mechanics for both styles. Incidentally, I messed up some of my points, so the perfected kata bracers will be turning into plain 'ol hearthstone bracers. Seven Leaping Dragons Stone is a hearthstone from Bo3C, type solar, trigger combat, adds 4 dice to all martial arts attack rolls. I have an idea for some fluff too. I'll add it to Kree's character sheet page for the time being and it can be moved around later.
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| − | :: I get mentioned all over the place, don't I? ;) I'm afraid that I'd be a bad judge at the moment, as I am in the middle of my essay-writing period at school. But I will be reading with interest. :) - FrivYeti
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| − | :As a side note: Since I haven't picked a mechanic for Perpetual Dynamo Recycling Technique, the one I'll use for the fight is "Spend 1 willpower as an instant, reflexive, combo-able charm use to return all accumulated motes in the Recylcing Pool to the Exalt's essence pools. -[[Ambisinister]]
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| − | No Sweat FrivYeti, you were just the first person I thought of =)
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| − | Oh I'm well aware what the Seven Leaping Dragon Stone does, I considered taking it for the Seqestered Tabernacle version of Dan Tai. Good choice, by the way.
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| − | You're right about GregLink, fantastic choice. He's the first person who ever gave me commentary on my stuff =) Howsaboutit GregLink?
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| − | I like the idea of this page being a Tournament-based thing. Let's see how this plays out, and maybe we can get other people involved with other Wikizen-created MA styles and actually set up a tournament ladder. Hmmm...
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| − | No problem with the mechanic choice either, I've already dissected your strategy from your character sheet and am currently thinking of what I'm going to do on my fourth turn ~ BrigandRansom , <i>playing chess on his computer to warm up ;D </i>
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| − | :Already disected my strategy eh? I'll have to endeavor to throw you some curve balls then. We'll have to see how well my predictions about Mr. Tai go. I'm big enough to admit that you have some techniques available which do cause me some concern. It should be an interesting fight.- [[Ambisinister]]
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| − | Hey BR, if we can't find a ref, we can't find a ref. We can just run it on our own. If we hit an insurmountable judgement issue, we can put it up to wiki vote. As for stunt dice, I'll assign Dan Tai's and you can assign Kree's. Sound cool to you?-[[Ambisinister]]
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| − | Gimme another day, I've been trolling for STs in #WoD, if nothing comes of that we'll get together in a chat room and get this done in an evening or something ~ BrigandRansom , <i>getting torn apart like the n00b he is =) </i>
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| − | Sorry about bailing, BrigandRansom. Uncle Sam knocked at my door one day and when that happens, man, you drop everything and you <i>go</i>. I am now significantly wetter & somewhat sandier. - [[Kurulham]]
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| − | So, have you guys started this somewhere yet, or do you still need an ST? I'll do it if you like. I'll make up a list of house rulings if you're interested. - IanPrice
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| − | :We haven't started yet. Actually, I haven't seen or heard from BR in a while now. As far as I know we don't have an ST yet either. I'd be more than happy to take you up on your offer. We'll have to see what BR says when he gets back.- [[Ambisinister]]
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| − | Aack! School and an exploding computer have made it difficult to make it back around, sorry! I'm back, I'll bust my ass and have all fluff / description set up by this weekend! Kurulham, good to see you back! Sorry we got impatient. IanPrice, that would rock if you wanted to do some STing! If we can get everyone together at once, we could work out the combat in an afternoon, but there are issues of Time Zone and reliable internet connections. And I'd love to see/hear/read your house rule ideas
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| − | Also, There's al least one more MAist involved, Scrollreader said something about a Bronze-Trained Solar... (creepy!) ~ BrigandRansom, <i>fighting his way back to the intarweb</i>
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| − | :In that case, I accept and volunteer and will do it and stuff. Also, I'll have a surprise contender waiting for whoever finishes the tournament; a Tabernacle-trained Solar using canon MA styles. He's still built using 150 XP, but I used some power-juicing tricks so he should be a significant challenge to whoever gets to him.
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| − | :As for house rules, it's more like a set of interpretations. I'm not adding or subtracting much, because basically the idea of this is to see if your MAs work out according to the canon rules. So all my house rulings will be aimed at making certain things clear which I otherwise find unclear from the wording in the books. Now that I'm definitely doing it, my rulings will be up at IanPrice/TrialHouseRules. - IanPrice
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| − | ::I think using any house rules for this is a bad idea. Most of the ones you have listed aren't interpretations, but outright house rules, and that could create an artificial layer of extra power or weakness on some MA styles. While I <i>do</i> think it's a good idea for a set of interpretations be settled on and written up for clarity's sake, I also think great caution should be taken to ensure that those interpretations are just interpretations, and don't cross the line into alterations, which some of yours do. - [[David.]]
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| − | ::Ian, I strongly recommend that you outright say that you'll ignore the "must declare whether you're using defense X before attack is rolled" restriction that some Dodge charms have. It is not workable in PbP format. The added minor tactical aspect is just not worth the extra delay. I also agree with David. Some of your "interpretations" are really house-rules. Doubling the WP recovery from stunt, for example, is a significant change. - TonyC
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| − | ::[[David.]], TonyC, I agree that house rules add artificial things. However, I don't believe any of what I've put in there are things I made up out of my head. I've derived every single one of them from the wordings in the rulebooks. This just goes to show how many interpretations are possible from any single text. Every Storyteller will have a slightly different interpretation. On the WP thing for instance: I honestly thought that's the way it's supposed to work. It's the way it was explained to me, using the text at hand, when I learned to play Exalted. The core book says, "you get X or Y." Power Combat says, "double X," but is nonspecific about Y. Since the core book links the two values, I assumed that Power Combat intended it that way too. Just because I interpret it far differently from most people dosn't mean I made it up.
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| − | ::On the issue of feasibility, I'll take that suggestion strongly into consideration, TonyC. I read your fight with FaFL, and was quite impressed. So I can see that this suggestion comes from experience.
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| − | ::If either of you would like to comment on the IanPrice/TrialHouseRules page more extensively, to tell me which of my interpretations are farthest from the norm, and what the norm for them is, I'd appreciate it. - IanPrice
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| − | :::You bring up another interesting point, actually. While I (and I believe many others) take the stance that if the WP recovery was supposed to be doubled, the book would actually say exactly that, I can understand how someone might come to a different conclusion. However, I think it is in the best interests of this test, its participants, their writings, and by extension everyone who reads those fan-made works, to go with "mainstream" interpretations. Just because an interpretation could be drawn from the text doesn't mean it's the one that most Exalted fans use, and I think it's in everyone's best interest to go with mainstream interpretations. - [[David.]]
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| − | So I've been thinking about this in the context of a Fighting Game (Hey, stranger things have happened... the Bloody Roar Engine was originally developed for a W:tA fighting game that fell through). I almost think that House Rules would be like the Game Settings. So... another option is of course, looking at House Rules created by other Wikizens and drawing from there. I'll post more later, thinking of a "Stage" format for the setting (Pit-Fighting Arena in Nexus? Sequestered Tabernac? Kether Rock? Juggernaut???) ~ BrigandRansom, <i>who would buy an Exalted Fighting Game in a heartbeat</i>
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| − | I'm also beginning to lean towards David's thoughts on using very strict rules. This would provide a better test of the MAs, especially when dealing with Homebrew vs Canon styles. Wikizen vote? Anyone else interested in bringing a 150xp MAist to the table? ~ BrigandRansom, <i>Wanna fight about it?</i>
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| − | :As advertised, I have one in store for the winner of the tournament, who I'm keeping as a surprise. I really don't care about the rules. As judge I'm just referee and dice monkey anyway. - IanPrice
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| − | :So, let me know, what do I need to do to get involved? Combatant or judge, either's ok with me. -- [[Somori]], <i>Who is shortly going to be without an Exalted game.</i>
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| − | ::See, "the setup" at the top of the page. Also, to be a judge, people seem to be agreeing on the rules I've posted at IanPrice/TrialHouseRules. (I've entirely removed the ones about stunt WP and hardness to another page, since they won't be used) - IanPrice
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| − | :::So, are we doing simultaeneous games or are we waiting for BR and Ambisinister to finish? Multi-person brawl or 2-person exhibition matches? Winner stays on, knockout or swiss tournament? These are the kinds of things I'm a little confused about. -- [[Somori]], <i>going to go and find some of the homebrew styles to play with.</i>
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| − | :::The setup seems to imply one on one matches, due to the disallowing of allies, followers, etc. Tournament structure hasn't been discussed yet; I'm up for a round robin. As for simultaneous or wait, I think simultaneous would be better (so people don't get bored waiting their turn), though I can only commit to STing two or three fights at once. - IanPrice
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| − | Ambisinister is missing. Are you guys going to wait forever for him or is someone courageous enough to step up and take his place? Come on, now. - TonyC
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| − | ::Not missing, just quiet. Not a whole lot I can do here without BR.- [[Ambisinister]]
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| − | So is [[BrigandRansom|BR]] most of the time, for that matter. Since this is his baby... - IanPrice
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| − | Given that a number of people has expressed interest, perhaps this page should be moved up to its own page instead of remaining a BrigandRansom's subpage. Especially since BrigandRansom himself is missing. - TonyC
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