Difference between revisions of "Shataina/SoundMeshStyle"

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Sound-Mesh Style

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Comments

This Style sounds awesome!! Need any assistance with charms? After reading this I got a whole mess of Ideas for charms of this Style. - Issaru Thinks the Quantum Physics geek in him is showing.

<Wants to help, too!> Wicked nifty! ^_^ As for the linguistics thing, craft poetry is, IMHO (being a linguist and such), the better choice for a co-req ability. Linguistics, while it does inform one's ability to produce Language, is not ultimately concerned with poetry. Craft poetry, representing the practical skills of assembling verse using the tools of rhyme, meter, and symbolism, is.
What do you have in mind for a total number of charms, S? Any particular whacky ones you want? Also, what do you want for the Form charm? Let me know, as this has really caught my imagination! ^_^ -Suzume

<grin> And here I thought that not putting these edits on RecentChanges would keep this page a secret. Oh well! I'm glad you guys like what I've got; I mostly didn't publicize it because I figured no one would care.
Okay. So, to start with, I'm going to want these Charms to be slightly more powerful than normal Martial Arts Charms, because they have two prerequisites instead of one. I think this is also justified by the few Charms we have with multiple prerequisite Ability totals (World Within A Picture Style -- I think that's what it's called? -- comes to mind.) That's going to be one of the up sides of actually bothering to learn this Style. I'm really not very good at Charm balance in general (although I can recognize egregiousness when I see it); Morpheus will heavily inform my work in this regard (especially since I see him all the time), which is not to say that your comments on balance aren't welcome. I'm sure I'll need them!
I would absolutely love ideas for Charms. The skeleton Training notes I have above reflect the ideas that I have so far -- those ideas are very formless. I'm thinking that the initial Charm will aid in performance and improvised poetry, probably something along the lines of adding dice to a single performance attempt, although I'm not married to this (I just figured it might be the best idea for the initial Charm since it's both weak and defining, as per RSB's general guidelines).
The Charms immediately after this will be along the lines of "enchant and lull" -- probably one that makes the target sleepy, probably one that inspires emotion, etc. Then we get into "dissonance", which the Adept starts to understand after harmonics; I'm thinking this will give rise to Charms that multiply damage (the target is rent from inside by dissonance), Charms that confuse and disturb people, and one Charm that has an effect along the lines of "Force Decision" -- it gets you to do something, but only by acting on your reflexes and basic instincts with sound (this will probably be the "bridge" Charm between harmony and dissonance).
Probably, the Form will be either there (and will involve something like the user being able to walk in harmony or disharmony as she chooses -- God only knows what that will mean -- probably at least letting her choose lethal or bashing) or I will wait until I get into the Master techniques and put the Form there (thereby creating a slightly more powerful but harder-to-get Form, along the lines of willows's Bitter Flower Style). I like the second option because I think that way the Form might express the Style better, but on the other hand it'll be harder to balance against other Forms, and it's probably not such a good idea in terms of balancing the Style as a whole. So, in the end I'll probably go with the first option.
Okay. So then after those dissonance Charms we get into the Master techniques, which are going to be the really abstract and postmodern ones. These depend on simplicity and silence. This is where the madness effects go, and I'm figuring at least one Charm that like ... makes the target fall apart because they have neither harmony nor disharmony and there's nothing holding them together ... or something. And I have to have a Charm called "Impending Silence" because that's just cool.
I don't really care that much about total number of Charms, although I would prefer that the Charm tree be symmetrical because, umm, just because. I tried to draw up a Charm tree for this some time ago and it ended up around 12 Charms, but that was probably because I was modelling it on the Elemental Styles. I definitely want to go through these three stages, though, and I also want there to eventually be a couple of "secret" Charms at the end that do egregious things -- something like conjuration effects through the power of sound (Quicksilver Scribe summons a web of enchanted bronze runes to entangle her enemies), etc. These will, by the way, be the ones that Quicksilver Scribe particularly used illegal sorcerous effects with and made some evil bargains for, although I figure she probably worked with the Weaver of Voices to develop this entire Style. :)
I should note a couple changes I've made to the above description -- I discussed focuses a little bit (this is based on one of Morpheus's systems) and I also noted that this is a mainly offensive style. I'm not saying that there won't be any defensive Charms, and I'm also not saying that poetry / whatever can't be used to defend, but First Age Quicksilver Scribe developed it, and she was kind of an "offensive", direct person at the time.
Wow this is a long comment. On to specific responses. Issaru -- physics geeks rule, and I still would love your input, but I should note that I'd generally prefer to avoid "scientific" kinds of Charms and focus on the esoteric, mystical effects of sound and poetry as related to the Martial Arts. However, I don't care if a Charm is scientifically accurate as long as it works the other way too.
Suzume -- I definitely agree with you on the poetry thing -- Linguistics isn't really that relevant to poetry at all. It's kind of set out to be the poetry Ability in the Core, though, and I can understand from a game balance point of view why some gaming groups would prefer to have Linguistics be the poetry Ability (because then they're not screwing themselves by taking an Ability that's almost entirely useless in the average game).
Thank you both! I look forward to your ideas.
~ Shataina
PS: Added an initial idea for a Charm tree.

No problem I love working on.....everything (I'm such a whore for Exalted, especially crunch). my Ideas will be on this page. - Issaru

Have you ever heard of the throat-singers of Tuva? (Tuva is a little region in Asian Siberia.) The throat-singers have trained themselves to amplify or mute (even to the point of deleting) portions of the normal harmonic range of the human voice (and apparently, at least to some degree, with certain instruments that rely on the human oral cavity to form their sound chamber, the best example of which is a sort of mouth-harp), to the point where they produce eerie, inhuman-sounding songs, complete with lyrics. Some of these singers are able to harmonize with themselves, even, as they separate the sounds produced into much more widely divided bands of formants. Also particularly interesting is a phenomenon where the singer will delete all formants except the first (the lowest), rendering his voice into something that sounds like a diggery-do (I know I've misspelled that; help, anyone who knows the correct spelling...), low and buzzing and haunted. Or when he will delete everything but the top one or two formants, turning his voice into a high-pitched whistle or buzz, the sort of sound one might expect from a hunting lure, or the like.
The point of all this, is that the singer must undergo years of intense training to be considered competent, very like learning a martial art. The similarity just sort of struck me. ^_^ Also, this sort of information might serve as a source of ideas for effects for the charms in the style. For example, in a more mystic sense, the martial artist deletes the mystic portions of her voice that reinforce some harmonious aspect of the target, causing that aspect to collapse or reverse or something. Or the reinforcement of some aspect of the voice affects the mind of the target, forcing her to make a decision (a la the pre-form charm you mentioned).
Other ideas include forcing the target to utilize one of her virtues in place of an ability or attribute in some roll (like a dodge, attack or the like) as the words of the martial artist incite some emotion or other. The idea of the monk reciting utterly potent limmericks forcing her target to use temperance instead of dodge in a dodge attempt is just too good... ^_^
One other thing: Why not two form charms, one a lesser, one a greater, or some such? Having the greater form just before the ultimate technique would seem to be a good place, although anywhere in the upper tree seems like it would be a good too.
Just some thoughts. -Suzume ps. Issaru started to comment while I was still writing. ^_^ Isn' it great when ya get this kinda lovin'?

Wow, that's incredibly cool. I've never heard of them! They sound like such a science fictiony concept! Thank you so much for the reference ... I will now learn about them with a vengeance. Do you know of anyplace that I can find recordings of these marvelous people? (Also, I believe it's didgeridoo ... <checks> Yes it is, although dictionary.com notes that "didjeridoo" is also acceptable.)
I dunno about the forcing alternate rolls with Virtues thing. In terms of emotional incitement, I'm probably going to just have that effect be that you have to override your Virtues if the Stylist succeeds in evoking your emotions. The idea of forcing people to roll Virtues in place of another dice pool is interesting, though -- I'm just not convinced it's the best way to do that particular Charm. Any ideas for a more esoteric Charm that might work that way? Perhaps a dissonance Charm could do something like that ... maybe confusing a target into thinking one Virtue is appropriate rather than another (or something) ....
A lesser and a greater form? Now that's iconoclastic. Very cool! Although I guess it basically just translates an extra scene-long Charm with "Form" in the title, which would mean that you couldn't invoke the two of them at once ... hmm. Maybe I'll have the Form itself be one Charm that gains an extra effect once you master the Style, so that you have a lesser Form that everyone who knows the Form knows, and then a greater Form that only the Master can execute. What do you think?
~ Shataina
PS: mm ... tasty lovin' ....

The album (and eponymous movie) Ghengis Blues is somewhat related (has a couple of the traditional songs, at least), being a record of a blues singer that went to Tuva one year to compete in an annual throat-singing contest (blues singers sometimes accomplish some of the same effects, albeit rarely and never quite so dramatically, through the use of "creaky voice"). Otherwise, just try googling with "Tuva", "throat singing" or the like. It is kind of SciFi-ish, isn't it? ^_^ One of the dissonance charms would be just fine, for the Virtue-switching thing. I'm interested to see what you have in mind for the decision-forcer, though. ^^
<Merrily romps around, tossing the icons from their niches and from the iconostasis, and then clasting them.> ^_^ Seriously, though, the stepped Form sounds like a good way to introduce the concept. If I come up with anything else, of course, it'll come straight here. -Suzume (PS. Lovin' is ALWAYS best tasty! ^_^ )

Thanks again.
~ Shataina

I just had this weird idea for a charm mechanic which is truly evil and yet strangely interesting, and I thought I'd leave it here incase you'd like to pilfer it for a dissonance based charm. Some sort of probably simple, maybe supplemental charm that instead of doing normal damage, if it penetrates soak (and it must penetrate, not ping) then it takes off ALL of the health levels with the same modifier. For balance reasons, this should probably not work on -2 or -4 levels, although if you felt like it then it could. Anyway, just a thought. It would be very harmful towards sidereals, and certainly interesting... it would work least well on people who spread out their health levels.
-- Darloth

This sounds similar to an idea I had for one of the effects of the Form -- that the Stylist could choose to apply as many of the damage successes she rolled as she pleased (e.g. Quicksilver Scribe rolls 8 damage successes and may then apply anywhere from 0 to 8 health levels of damage, or some such). I'm having a hard time articulating why I think that works, though -- do you have any ideas why you figured your effect would be appropriate for this style? Or do you think it's totally different? (Mm, tasty flavour text ...)
~ Shataina

Umm... honestly not sure, it just seemed like a really interesting effect that made me think of resonance. And then I came across your style.
-- Darloth

Starting to put up some base Charm ideas. I should note that I don't have regular Internet access, so I'm probably going to be kind of spotty about updating this.
~ Shataina

Minor edits to some skeleton Charms; new Secret Technique ideas.
~ Shataina

A range limit on the banishment of abstracts/pervasives for the secret charms might be a good idea, even at the power level you described there. It might be a little bit of an unfounded limitation, concept-wise, but for the purposes of game mechanics and play, preventing the utter--if as-yet theoretical--banishment of, say, love or food from Creation in toto. Whereas, by only banishing it from one spot of--relatively--limited area would allow the user to summon the zone of that... whatever, somewhere else, perhaps creating an area over flowing with joy where there was none before, even if it IS at the expense of robbing that joy from somewhere else. This also seems to be in keeping with the spirit of the backstory you created for the style. -Suzume (BTW: I thought that the whole point was that the Deathlords and their Abyssals didn't have any actual names anymore. They use titles to identify the remaining scraps of their existence, but their names were swallowed by the Void.)

Added a note in the description that specifies that abstract concepts become more general as they expand rather than less (e.g., it's still incredibly difficult to figure out the True Name for "love between two specific people", and then it becomes more complex when it's "love between a man and a woman", even more so when it's "love between people", etc). Also, I would consider the idea of banishing the entirety of a concept from Creation to be equivalent to banishing a Yozi, which means you have to learn the Yozi's true name first. Good luck with that.
Having whatever it is that's invoked come from somewhere else ... this is an awesome idea flavourwise, but I don't think it's necessary in terms of power, and I'd prefer these effects to resemble sorcery (which doesn't have to take the stuff it conjures from anywhere) for twisted reasons of my own that involve the theory of sorcery being an innately Malfean thing.
Well spotted on the Deathlord thing. I hadn't thought of that. I'd rule that they have to have a True Name in order to exist, but that their old one was eaten by the Void and their new one was invented by (and is in the keeping of) the Malfeans, which is what grants the Malfeans such control over them.
~ Shataina

I guess I had in mind more that the concept would be banished to, well, nothing, and that it would then be produced ex nihilo on use of the second secret, but that is mostly quibbling over an absolutely tiny point.
As for the Deathlords, what holds them isn't a name as such. I've always thought that they were essentially giving away the ability to even have a name, and so are reliant for their continued existence on entities that definitely do not have names anymore (the Malfeans), and on the meerest substitute for a name: a title. But that's my opinion, and is obviously not canon (by a few galaxy-widths, at least, authority-wise). If it works better to think of the Deathlords as having a secret True Name, by all means, that's the way to go. I'm just leery of effects, no matter what their source, that can alter the core fundamentals of the setting. On the other hand, I've been working with a friend to try and figure out a way to use material from Time of Tumult and other places for his players to eventually defeat Mask of Winters, so there you go. ^_^
Another thought: Banishing a randomly encountered sword with the word "sword" (or its appropriate mystical equivalent) might be easier than, say banishing a Daiklave with the appropriate words therefor, but it seems that it would be easier if one happened to know the Name of the specific sword. Perhaps allowing for some degree of chance in having an incomplete Name for the object to be banished, while slightly weakening the effect, would be a better way to go. It would also provide an even more sensible way to explain, for example, why it's so difficult to banish the Princess Magnificent with this charm. Essentially, it's possible, but one must find sufficient Name-age to use against her, and huge chunks of that are swallowed by the Nothing. (Yes, that's a gratuitous The Neverending Story reference ^_^ ) -Suzume

If someone uses that Charm to alter huge chunks of the setting, it's their Storyteller's fault for making it too easy for them to learn the respective thing's True Name. As I said, I would consider learning a Deathlord's True Name to be a five thousand year quest ... that means that you are not going to accomplish it (at least, not in any game anyone I respect would run) unless the Storyteller intends you to and finds a way to hand you the True Name on some sort of metaphorical silver platter.
How about I say that using that banishing Charm on an unspecific True Name like "sword" just means that it works on all the swords "in range" (to be left up to the Storyteller) that aren't too complex? This both powers it down and up and means that a Stylist might have to think hard before using less specific Names. I would prefer to avoid involving rolls with the invocation of these Charms, and that's what would be necessary to make there be a chance of failure with a lesser Name.
I'm confused about your first point. I'd think that having these Charms conjure out of thin air would be more in line with that, not less.
~ Shataina

Since the Deathlords and Abyssals have their names devoured and made nonexistent, obviously to learn one you'll have to invoke the name back into existence with Secret Technique #2 and then somehow find out what it is. Learning the True Name's True Name is left as an exercise for the student. -Ben-San

You can't do that with Secret Technique #2 because you have to have banished whatever you summon before you can summon it. :)
~ Shataina

Gaaah. This reminds me of Earthdawn... learn this this and this name, and you can finally do this... which you were going to use to learn -this- name.
-- Darloth actually -likes- earthdawn, honest

OMG!!! Another person who actually likes that game! - Issaru hangs head in shame for admitting he liked ED

Never heard of it. Care to direct me someplace I can learn more? Or perhaps just tell me? <grin>
~ Shataina

Ok...but i'm warning you: the rule set sux. Other than that I absolutly love ED and heres the link to living room games - http://www.lrgames.com/ (the "new" owners of the title, its original producer FASA died) - Issaru

This my attempt for the second charm on the tree. Tell me what you think. hope you can use it - Issaru

Sonorous Somnolence

Cost: 4 motes plus 2 motes per target after the first

Duration: instant

Type: Supplemental ?

Minimum Crafts [Poetry]: 2

Minimum Martial Arts: 1

Minimum Essence: 2

Prerequisite Charms: Initial Charm

By making a short poem, or sonnet the martial artist weaves the essence of inactivity, sleep and relaxation into her target(s). This Charm temporarily lulls the target(s) into a drowsy daze causing them to make easy mistakes. The target must make a willpower roll with a difficulty equal to the user of this charms charisma score. If this test is unsuccessful the target suffers a on success penalty on all rolls for the scene. This charm does not stack with itself. The user of this charm may affect more than one target with this effect by spending an additional cost of 2motes per additional target. This charm has a range of effect equal to {permanent Essence}10 yards.

Thank you ... I'll have to revamp it, but definitely thanks. (Firstly, I'm not going to put rolls in this Style unless it's unavoidable, and secondly, I avoid Charms that use stats that aren't relevant to their theme.) I'll work on it later. Oh! And also thanks for posting this here rather than that other crossposty page. It is very accomodating of you. :)
~ Shataina