WhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms - Revision history

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#REDIRECT Discussions/WhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms

GreenLantern: Replies, and I'll be out of touch for 48 hours

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Replies, and I'll be out of touch for 48 hours

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← Older revision		Revision as of 01:18, 6 April 2010
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−	#REDIRECT [[~~DiscussionsWhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms/~~WhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms]]	+	#REDIRECT Discussions/[[WhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms]]

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−	Every Exalt type, save Sidereals, can make new charms. Sidereals are limited to the one non-Sidereal charm-type they can learn, which is MA. Why is that? Other than "color text" (The Maidens know ''so'' much about the future, that they can guarantee these 63 charms are good enough) or game balance (if Sidereals really could make charms, they'd own), what's going on there? Has anyone come up with an in-game reason that holds weight? It seems that Sidereals are really handicapped by the limitation, especially as their Essence tends to 5 and up. After all, even though weird MAs are powerful, you're left with buying 10 charms of an MA to get the 4 cool charms you wanted, and 6 more basic combat charms you don't need. Hence, as power levels increase, Sidereals don't tend to be master manipulators of the world, they tend to be combat powerhouses with MA combos coming out of their ears. Yes, SMA does allow some less purely combat powers, but even then, have you seen an MA that lets you control social situations? Get from A to B faster? These are things that Sidereals (IMO) ''should'' be good at, but really aren't, because they can't make charms. Just trying to start some discussion, is all. -- GregLink, AKA the GreenLantern	+	#REDIRECT [[DiscussionsWhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms/WhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms]]
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−	:The "color text", as you put it, <i>is</i> the in-game reason as to why Sidereals cannot make their own Charms. Also, said "color text" specifically puts in an out for the ST regarding "lost Charms". - [[~~Moxiane]]~~
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−	::True, true. But ''why''? Are Sidereal shards weak? Limited, somehow? If it weren't for the one maiden-imposed exception, all Exalts would be able to make charms. Heck, all spirits can, as can Fair Folk. So why the Sidereals? Can it be 'fixed'? Could you buy off the Maidens? Is it because the Maidens are weaker than the other patrons? (Heck, it takes five of them to make 5 castes, while all the other patrons can do their castes on their own). -- GreenLantern
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−	I don't think you can say that they can't make Charms after Essence 5, as none of the canon splats have post Essence 5 charms, excepting the castebooks. If anyone wants to do a Sol Invictus for Sidereals, they're more than free to, I'd say, but the Sidereals don't invent Charms in practice, because that's not what they do. They don't experiment randomly, they've got all the knowledge from the First Age to play with still, and their pride tells them that those are more than strong enough. Also, this should be under Discussions. - [[Trithne]]
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−	Indeed it should be. My bad. If anyone knows how to move it, feel free. Heck, feel encouraged. As for the real meat of Trinthe's comments though, you're slightly mis-reading the exact book, perhaps without realizing it. The book notes that "That's it. These are all the Sidereal charms, period, and you can't make more. The Maidens looked into the future and said "You'll need these 63 charms, so here they are"." So, canonically, you can't actually make a "Star Invictus" or something of the sort, as it would violate the canon. You ''could'' make one full of MA charms (mostly SMA, even), but you're canonically prevented from having more than the Siddie fatsplat worth of charms. -- GreenLantern

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−	#REDIRECT Discussions/WhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms	+	#REDIRECT Discussions[[/WhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms]]

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	:The "color text", as you put it, <i>is</i> the in-game reason as to why Sidereals cannot make their own Charms. Also, said "color text" specifically puts in an out for the ST regarding "lost Charms". - [[Moxiane]]		:The "color text", as you put it, <i>is</i> the in-game reason as to why Sidereals cannot make their own Charms. Also, said "color text" specifically puts in an out for the ST regarding "lost Charms". - [[Moxiane]]
		+
		+	::True, true. But ''why''? Are Sidereal shards weak? Limited, somehow? If it weren't for the one maiden-imposed exception, all Exalts would be able to make charms. Heck, all spirits can, as can Fair Folk. So why the Sidereals? Can it be 'fixed'? Could you buy off the Maidens? Is it because the Maidens are weaker than the other patrons? (Heck, it takes five of them to make 5 castes, while all the other patrons can do their castes on their own). -- GreenLantern

	I don't think you can say that they can't make Charms after Essence 5, as none of the canon splats have post Essence 5 charms, excepting the castebooks. If anyone wants to do a Sol Invictus for Sidereals, they're more than free to, I'd say, but the Sidereals don't invent Charms in practice, because that's not what they do. They don't experiment randomly, they've got all the knowledge from the First Age to play with still, and their pride tells them that those are more than strong enough. Also, this should be under Discussions. - [[Trithne]]		I don't think you can say that they can't make Charms after Essence 5, as none of the canon splats have post Essence 5 charms, excepting the castebooks. If anyone wants to do a Sol Invictus for Sidereals, they're more than free to, I'd say, but the Sidereals don't invent Charms in practice, because that's not what they do. They don't experiment randomly, they've got all the knowledge from the First Age to play with still, and their pride tells them that those are more than strong enough. Also, this should be under Discussions. - [[Trithne]]
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		+	Indeed it should be. My bad. If anyone knows how to move it, feel free. Heck, feel encouraged. As for the real meat of Trinthe's comments though, you're slightly mis-reading the exact book, perhaps without realizing it. The book notes that "That's it. These are all the Sidereal charms, period, and you can't make more. The Maidens looked into the future and said "You'll need these 63 charms, so here they are"." So, canonically, you can't actually make a "Star Invictus" or something of the sort, as it would violate the canon. You ''could'' make one full of MA charms (mostly SMA, even), but you're canonically prevented from having more than the Siddie fatsplat worth of charms. -- GreenLantern

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:48, 21 February 2006
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−	~~#REDIRECT~~ Discussions[[~~/WhyCantSiderealsMakeCharms~~]]	+	Every Exalt type, save Sidereals, can make new charms. Sidereals are limited to the one non-Sidereal charm-type they can learn, which is MA. Why is that? Other than "color text" (The Maidens know ''so'' much about the future, that they can guarantee these 63 charms are good enough) or game balance (if Sidereals really could make charms, they'd own), what's going on there? Has anyone come up with an in-game reason that holds weight? It seems that Sidereals are really handicapped by the limitation, especially as their Essence tends to 5 and up. After all, even though weird MAs are powerful, you're left with buying 10 charms of an MA to get the 4 cool charms you wanted, and 6 more basic combat charms you don't need. Hence, as power levels increase, Sidereals don't tend to be master manipulators of the world, they tend to be combat powerhouses with MA combos coming out of their ears. Yes, SMA does allow some less purely combat powers, but even then, have you seen an MA that lets you control social situations? Get from A to B faster? These are things that Sidereals (IMO) ''should'' be good at, but really aren't, because they can't make charms. Just trying to start some discussion, is all. -- GregLink, AKA the GreenLantern
		+
		+	:The "color text", as you put it, <i>is</i> the in-game reason as to why Sidereals cannot make their own Charms. Also, said "color text" specifically puts in an out for the ST regarding "lost Charms". - [[Moxiane]]
		+
		+	I don't think you can say that they can't make Charms after Essence 5, as none of the canon splats have post Essence 5 charms, excepting the castebooks. If anyone wants to do a Sol Invictus for Sidereals, they're more than free to, I'd say, but the Sidereals don't invent Charms in practice, because that's not what they do. They don't experiment randomly, they've got all the knowledge from the First Age to play with still, and their pride tells them that those are more than strong enough. Also, this should be under Discussions. - [[Trithne]]