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== Solars Vs. Lion ==
To skip this and go straight to the good stuff, click
/SolarsVsLion

Way way back, FrivYeti ran a mock combat with a circle of five "twinked-out" 500xp solars against First & Forsaken Lion. Lion ate their souls like it's popcorn. Now, I used to believe that five combat focused Solars at 500 XP can kick any Deathlord's butt. Not anymore, but I used to, so when I looked at the Solars' character sheet, I went "Dude, those ain't twinked." One thing led to another and pretty soon I ended up with this.

Please note that we are not using custom charms. This is to avoid the "this charm is broken - No it's not!" arguments. Since official charms are usually Essence 5 or lower (with a few exceptions, and we do use them), this means that this is not a representative of what Essence 10 fights look like. This is a representative of what Essence 5-6 fights looks like.

Occassionally I'll run across people in various forums pooh-pooh-ing this. I'm sorry we disappointed you. I know you were expecting a true Essence 10 combat, but we're simply not that l33t.

== Personal Notes ==

The following is basically my notes on how I'd approach the combat. They're rantish and are my opinion only. I'm writing this down here so I'll have an easy reference when I go on with the actual character creation and combat rounds.

The key concept in high essence combat is charm control. You want to be able to shut down your opponent's charm use while being able to use charm yourselves. Generally, the most expedient way of achieving this is by forcing your opponent to use charms until they run out of motes or Willpower. In a typical Solar level combat, this is usually done by trading perfect effects until one side gives. But there are ways to speed this up or bypassing the mote/wp attrition process entirely. In some specific cases, simply forcing the choice of targets or what charm is used are just as good.

== The Appointment of FrivYeti as Storyteller ==
Okay, Friv, I'm starting to see that we might need a final authority on some of the weirder stuff here.
You're it. When there are several different interpretation, or
when we aren't sure how something actually work, your word will
be the final word. Basically, just pretend you're the
Storyteller.

: Sure thing. *thumbs up* - FrivYeti

First appeal: Many Dodge charms require that they are declared before the attack is rolled. Many people ignore that rule, but technically those people are using a houserule. However, given the nature of this exercise, it's going to be a headache to stop every time somebody attacks and wait for the other side to decide whether to use a Dodge charm or not. So let's just agree to ignore that rule, shall we?

:This seems like a fair statement, and I'll agree to it. :) - FrivYeti

== Basic Assumptions ==

We'll assume that First and Forsaken Lions and this Solar Circle have been enemies from some time, and that this battle is the culmination of a long and epic campaign. Both sides know the other side's abilities quite well, having clashed over and over again before.

: Also a fair assumption. Agreed. - FrivYeti

=== As an aside... can a perfect circle of 500 XP Sidereals take Lion down? ===
No, I'm not going to actually try this challenge, but while looking at the Sidereals book while thinking about Sidereal charms for the Eclipse, I suspect that it's possible. Certainly the Sidereals can flee if things don't look good. But anyway, it looks like that fight will be dealt purely by using instants. There won't be any non-instants charms or effects. There will be no prep time. Oh, if Lion wants to prepare by using scene-longs the Sidereals will be more than happy to give him the chance to waste his motes and willpower. Besides, they can use the time to adopt resplendent destinies, invoke Mending Warped Designs, make craft (Fate) rolls, and restore the arena back to Creation, thus nulling all of Lion's Hearthstones (which is all Underworld). The fight itself will probably start with the Sidereals invoking the Greater Signs, followed by messing around with Lion's destiny (and before you cry "Outside of Fate", read up on the Greater Signs), and then proceeding into normal combat, or what passes for normal for Sidereals anyway. - TonyC

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Solars Vs. Lion ==
 To skip this and go straight to the good stuff, click
-[[TonyC/SolarsVsLionContext/SolarsVsLion]]
+[[TonyC/SolarsVsLion]]
 Way way back, [[FrivYeti]] ran a mock combat with a circle of five "twinked-out" 500xp solars against First & Forsaken Lion. Lion ate their souls like it's popcorn. Now, I used to believe that five combat focused Solars at 500 XP can kick any Deathlord's butt. Not anymore, but I used to, so when I looked at the Solars' character sheet, I went "Dude, those ain't twinked." One thing led to another and pretty soon I ended up with this.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Solars Vs. Lion ==
 To skip this and go straight to the good stuff, click
-[[/SolarsVsLion]]
+[[TonyC/SolarsVsLionContext/SolarsVsLion]]
 Way way back, [[FrivYeti]] ran a mock combat with a circle of five "twinked-out" 500xp solars against First & Forsaken Lion. Lion ate their souls like it's popcorn. Now, I used to believe that five combat focused Solars at 500 XP can kick any Deathlord's butt. Not anymore, but I used to, so when I looked at the Solars' character sheet, I went "Dude, those ain't twinked." One thing led to another and pretty soon I ended up with this.

← Older revision	Revision as of 01:18, 6 April 2010
(No difference)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Solars Vs. Lion ==
 To skip this and go straight to the good stuff, click
-/SolarsVsLion
+[[/SolarsVsLion]]
-Way way back, FrivYeti ran a mock combat with a circle of five "twinked-out" 500xp solars against First & Forsaken Lion. Lion ate their souls like it's popcorn. Now, I used to believe that five combat focused Solars at 500 XP can kick any Deathlord's butt. Not anymore, but I used to, so when I looked at the Solars' character sheet, I went "Dude, those ain't twinked." One thing led to another and pretty soon I ended up with this.
+Way way back, [[FrivYeti]] ran a mock combat with a circle of five "twinked-out" 500xp solars against First & Forsaken Lion. Lion ate their souls like it's popcorn. Now, I used to believe that five combat focused Solars at 500 XP can kick any Deathlord's butt. Not anymore, but I used to, so when I looked at the Solars' character sheet, I went "Dude, those ain't twinked." One thing led to another and pretty soon I ended up with this.
 Please note that we are not using custom charms. This is to avoid the "this charm is broken - No it's not!" arguments. Since official charms are usually Essence 5 or lower (with a few exceptions, and we do use them), this means that this is not a representative of what Essence 10 fights look like. This is a representative of what Essence 5-6 fights looks like.
@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 The key concept in high essence combat is charm control. You want to be able to shut down your opponent's charm use while being able to use charm yourselves. Generally, the most expedient way of achieving this is by forcing your opponent to use charms until they run out of motes or Willpower. In a typical Solar level combat, this is usually done by trading perfect effects until one side gives. But there are ways to speed this up or bypassing the mote/wp attrition process entirely. In some specific cases, simply forcing the choice of targets or what charm is used are just as good.
-== The Appointment of FrivYeti as Storyteller ==
+== The Appointment of [[FrivYeti]] as Storyteller ==
 Okay, Friv, I'm starting to see that we might need a final authority on some of the weirder stuff here.
 You're it. When there are several different interpretation, or
@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 Storyteller.
-: Sure thing. *thumbs up* - FrivYeti
+: Sure thing. *thumbs up* - [[FrivYeti]]
 First appeal: Many Dodge charms require that they are declared before the attack is rolled. Many people ignore that rule, but technically those people are using a houserule. However, given the nature of this exercise, it's going to be a headache to stop every time somebody attacks and wait for the other side to decide whether to use a Dodge charm or not. So let's just agree to ignore that rule, shall we?
-:This seems like a fair statement, and I'll agree to it. :) - FrivYeti
+:This seems like a fair statement, and I'll agree to it. :) - [[FrivYeti]]
 == Basic Assumptions ==
@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 We'll assume that First and Forsaken Lions and this Solar Circle have been enemies from some time, and that this battle is the culmination of a long and epic campaign. Both sides know the other side's abilities quite well, having clashed over and over again before.
-: Also a fair assumption. Agreed. - FrivYeti
+: Also a fair assumption. Agreed. - [[FrivYeti]]
 === As an aside... can a perfect circle of 500 XP Sidereals take Lion down? ===
-No, I'm not going to actually try this challenge, but while looking at the Sidereals book while thinking about Sidereal charms for the Eclipse, I suspect that it's possible. Certainly the Sidereals can flee if things don't look good. But anyway, it looks like that fight will be dealt purely by using instants. There won't be any non-instants charms or effects. There will be no prep time. Oh, if Lion wants to prepare by using scene-longs the Sidereals will be more than happy to give him the chance to waste his motes and willpower. Besides, they can use the time to adopt resplendent destinies, invoke Mending Warped Designs, make craft (Fate) rolls, and restore the arena back to Creation, thus nulling all of Lion's Hearthstones (which is all Underworld). The fight itself will probably start with the Sidereals invoking the Greater Signs, followed by messing around with Lion's destiny (and before you cry "Outside of Fate", read up on the Greater Signs), and then proceeding into normal combat, or what passes for normal for Sidereals anyway. - TonyC
+No, I'm not going to actually try this challenge, but while looking at the Sidereals book while thinking about Sidereal charms for the Eclipse, I suspect that it's possible. Certainly the Sidereals can flee if things don't look good. But anyway, it looks like that fight will be dealt purely by using instants. There won't be any non-instants charms or effects. There will be no prep time. Oh, if Lion wants to prepare by using scene-longs the Sidereals will be more than happy to give him the chance to waste his motes and willpower. Besides, they can use the time to adopt resplendent destinies, invoke Mending Warped Designs, make craft (Fate) rolls, and restore the arena back to Creation, thus nulling all of Lion's Hearthstones (which is all Underworld). The fight itself will probably start with the Sidereals invoking the Greater Signs, followed by messing around with Lion's destiny (and before you cry "Outside of Fate", read up on the Greater Signs), and then proceeding into normal combat, or what passes for normal for Sidereals anyway. - [[TonyC]]