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← Older revision		Revision as of 20:16, 12 June 2010
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	I personally like to swich off styles depending on what i'm trying to do in a session. I belive both styles (crunchy and lite) are valid in both theory, and practice. With that being said I do prefer the less rules heavy more flavor text laden books. I belive with such a rich description of the setting/powers/whatever I can infer the meaning, and the extent to which said things are supposed to reach much eaiser. Crunch heavy books while useful tend to bore most people including myself, but they are neccesary when I "really" need to know what mechanically happens to someone/something without being "unfair". So to sum up I kinda stradle the fence on this one cause I <b>need</b> both styles present to successfuly run a game. - [[Issaru]]<br>		I personally like to swich off styles depending on what i'm trying to do in a session. I belive both styles (crunchy and lite) are valid in both theory, and practice. With that being said I do prefer the less rules heavy more flavor text laden books. I belive with such a rich description of the setting/powers/whatever I can infer the meaning, and the extent to which said things are supposed to reach much eaiser. Crunch heavy books while useful tend to bore most people including myself, but they are neccesary when I "really" need to know what mechanically happens to someone/something without being "unfair". So to sum up I kinda stradle the fence on this one cause I <b>need</b> both styles present to successfuly run a game. - [[Issaru]]<br>
	PS: [[THoF]] is a lil much IMHO, but she (Rebecca) was right in saying it's one of those things that an ST has to adjudicate everytime it is used.		PS: [[THoF]] is a lil much IMHO, but she (Rebecca) was right in saying it's one of those things that an ST has to adjudicate everytime it is used.
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 That, and the laws of physics.
 == Comments ==
-Hmm.  My first reaction to reading about THoF is that it looks like a plot device masquerading as a charm, and Rebecca's comments seem to bear that out.  Her reply seems to be along the lines of "This is here so that the PCs and the storyteller can decide that something cool happens without worrying about things like game mechanics."  Unfortunately, she appears to have paid scant attention to keeping the effect balanced, instead relying on the players not to abuse it, and the storyteller not to allow any abuse.  But the whole point of having charm trees, with prerequisites and mechanics, is to define and limit the scope of a character's power, so that the game isn't continually interrupted by subjective and potentially inconsistent decisions about what they can and can't do.  Free-form effects like this might be fine in an unstructured cooperative storytelling session, but not in Exalted, IMHO.  --[[Toram]]
+Hmm.  My first reaction to reading about [[THoF]] is that it looks like a plot device masquerading as a charm, and Rebecca's comments seem to bear that out.  Her reply seems to be along the lines of "This is here so that the PCs and the storyteller can decide that something cool happens without worrying about things like game mechanics."  Unfortunately, she appears to have paid scant attention to keeping the effect balanced, instead relying on the players not to abuse it, and the storyteller not to allow any abuse.  But the whole point of having charm trees, with prerequisites and mechanics, is to define and limit the scope of a character's power, so that the game isn't continually interrupted by subjective and potentially inconsistent decisions about what they can and can't do.  Free-form effects like this might be fine in an unstructured cooperative storytelling session, but not in Exalted, IMHO.  --[[Toram]]
-Wow.  What a boring and defeatist way of looking at things. <br> -- CrownedSun
+Wow.  What a boring and defeatist way of looking at things. <br> -- [[CrownedSun]]
 :There's nothing boring about it, and I'd call it realistic, rather than defeatist.  If you've got a storyteller and players that prefer to go without the game mechanics and don't run into any problems for it, then by all means, do so, and have fun.   But part of the point of a rulebook is to provide mechanics for those not in the above category.  Creating free-form powers that break the existing mechanical balance and then relying on good players to keep things from falling apart is, to me, an abdication of a game designer's responsibilities.  --[[Toram]]
-::There are different flavors of Exalted, because there are different writers at work.  GCG doesn't assign things to Rebecca when he wants them to be perfectly crunchy.  That's more Neph's department.  And, frankly, THoF is one Charm you'll never see used in my current game, largely because I could have predicted without even thinking about it that it would make *you* hit the ceiling.... --[[MF]]
+::There are different flavors of Exalted, because there are different writers at work.  GCG doesn't assign things to Rebecca when he wants them to be perfectly crunchy.  That's more Neph's department.  And, frankly, [[THoF]] is one Charm you'll never see used in my current game, largely because I could have predicted without even thinking about it that it would make *you* hit the ceiling.... --[[MF]]
 ::: *grin*  Sounds to me like an opportunity for colusion.  Let Rebecca write the setting and flavor text, and then let Neph figure out how to make it work mechanically.  --[[Toram]]
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 To me, it's unstructured, it's cooperative and yet it's one of Exalted's defining characteristics.
-Basically what I see Rebecca as saying is, judge the whole player-submitted fate detirmination aspect of THOF the way you would a stunt (in fact, there's several other Sidereal powers like Avoidance Kata that work best IMO if you judge them like stunts).  That is, on the fly decide if the proposed end result is the sort of thing that will either 'make your game more fun and exciting or it won't' and then go from there.  --YuuChanClan
+Basically what I see Rebecca as saying is, judge the whole player-submitted fate detirmination aspect of THOF the way you would a stunt (in fact, there's several other Sidereal powers like Avoidance Kata that work best IMO if you judge them like stunts).  That is, on the fly decide if the proposed end result is the sort of thing that will either 'make your game more fun and exciting or it won't' and then go from there.  --[[YuuChanClan]]
-:The core rulebook actually gives pretty solid guidelines about how to rate stunts; it devotes about a full page to the topic.  Any subjectivity would be very unlikely to change the rating of a stunt by more than one die.  And the potential effect of that subjective difference is pretty minor; one die and a couple points of essence.  With THoF, in contrast, the subjectivity has a major effect, and few clear constraints.  --[[Toram]]
+:The core rulebook actually gives pretty solid guidelines about how to rate stunts; it devotes about a full page to the topic.  Any subjectivity would be very unlikely to change the rating of a stunt by more than one die.  And the potential effect of that subjective difference is pretty minor; one die and a couple points of essence.  With [[THoF]], in contrast, the subjectivity has a major effect, and few clear constraints.  --[[Toram]]
 The mechanics, or lack thereof, hardly seem like a meritorious way to establish the flavour of an Exalt type, and that appears to be what has happened with the Sidereals. I am all for letting people play in a collaborative style where no one brings dice cause they never get used. But the thing is, it is a lot easier to Borgstrom Exalted than it is to Neph it up. Anyone with enough aptitude to read through one of the books can Borgstrom it all, but it'll take a lot more to Neph up the Sidereals than I've got. And, to be frank, shelling out the money for the book to have the charm amount, 'free form it, sucker! You just got Borgstrommed!' isn't terribly cool. Something like this should've been in a sidebar, or something, with a heading, 'now, if you want the Sidereals to be really nasty . . .' - andrew01
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 ::Flavor is fine and all but at 30-some-odd dollars for a piece of work I'd hope that the authors could have more insight into application than "Use your discretion!" when the application of a Charm is unclear - and questions don't arrive for things that are blatant. There is a place for creativity and a place for emotionless numbers, but I can pretty much handle the first on my own. An excellent description and new and interesting mechanics are great as long as there's no issue interpreting what is meant. I can have my discretion for free - I'm paying for ideas that won't occur to me, and mechanics that come pre-made.
-::Preferably, in hardcovers, with a bow. ~BerserkSeraph
+::Preferably, in hardcovers, with a bow. ~[[BerserkSeraph]]
 :::Dude. Your copy of <i>Sidereals</i> came wrapped in a bow? I'm so jealous. -[[szilard]]
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 :::Manipulating fate is all well and good, but the departure must be met with specificity up to the task - and calling it 'freedom for the ST and players to be creative' rings a little hollow to me. If I pay for a meal at a restaraunt, I don't want to have to make my own seasoning. Sure, it might make the experience a little more interactive for me, and I might have some fun with it, but I'm <i>paying</i> for convenience. You don't ship a car with 'the wheels....of your vast imagination!' - unfinished work is unfinished work no matter how much glitter you add to it.
-:::I stopped buying d20 books because I could and did make better stuff on my own, why should I buy Exalted books to get told that I have a golden opportunity to do the same again? ~BerserkSeraph
+:::I stopped buying d20 books because I could and did make better stuff on my own, why should I buy Exalted books to get told that I have a golden opportunity to do the same again? ~[[BerserkSeraph]]
 ::::It's not unfinished, any more than a rare steak is unfinished; it's just not to your taste.  As far as some players are concerned--me, for instance--a Charm like Transcendent Hatchet of Fate is perfectly designed, because it acknowledges that a roleplaying game is a collaborative creative exercise. --[[MF]]
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 I personally like to swich off styles depending on what i'm trying to do in a session. I belive both styles (crunchy and lite) are valid in both theory, and practice. With that being said I do prefer the less rules heavy more flavor text laden books. I belive with such a rich description of the setting/powers/whatever I can infer the meaning, and the extent to which said things are supposed to reach much eaiser. Crunch heavy books while useful tend to bore most people including myself, but they are neccesary when I "really" need to know what mechanically happens to someone/something without being "unfair". So to sum up I kinda stradle the fence on this one cause I <b>need</b> both styles present to successfuly run a game. - [[Issaru]]<br>
-PS: THoF is a lil much IMHO, but she (Rebecca) was right in saying it's one of those things that an ST has to adjudicate everytime it is used.
+PS: [[THoF]] is a lil much IMHO, but she (Rebecca) was right in saying it's one of those things that an ST has to adjudicate everytime it is used.

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