ThirtyFirst/TheArtOfCurses - Revision history

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ThirtyFirst: *

2006-03-17T03:03:06Z

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''back to [[Thaumaturgy]]''
= The Art of Curses (Occult ••••) =
'''Roll:''' Varies by task, see below

'''Cost:''' 5 motes

'''Aspects:''' Cursing a specific type of being, revenge, bad luck, things falling out of their mouth when they speak, impending doom (prick your finger on a spindle), self-fulfilling prophecies, embarrassing diseases, turning them into a newt (but they got better), madness

== Important Note =
This isn't anywhere near done. I'm just sketching out the gist of the thing right now, hence the casual tone and general vagueness.
== Laying Curses =
'''Roll:''' Intelligence + Occult

To lay a curse on a person, you must satisfy one of the following conditions:
* Have an actual piece of the target.
* Have tangible evidence of a grievance against the target.(he killed your son, didn't give you bread and now you're starving, broke your favorite toy, beat the shit out of you, etc.)
* Inflict one lethal health level of damage on yourself or a willing participant, or kill a non-willing or non-sentient creature, explicitly for the purpose of cursing the target.

Before the roll is made, automatic sucesses up to the caster's permanent Essence may be purchased for 5 motes or 2 willpower per success. These successes are added to the successes gathered on the Intelligence + Occult roll, and divided into Severity (how powerful the curse is) and Durability (how long it lasts).

The target reflexively rolls Essence + Resistance when the curse is first cast, and every (the caster's permanent Essence or three, whichever is less) days thereafter. Subtract Durability from the number of successes. Each remaining success reduces the curse's Durability by 1. When a curse's Durability is reduced to zero, it is lifted.

Severity scale: 1-3 must be subtle effects (you are more likely to get a disease), 4+ can be obviously effective (you get a disease). 10 is something like turning a lord into a hideous beast (or at least making him ''extremely'' ugly) and casting all his servants into eternal slumber.

All curses must have a condition upon which they are lifted. It does not have to be a reasonable condition, but it does have to be conceivably achievable (note that that isn't saying much, given that this is Exalted.)

Maintaining a curse requires committed motes equal to Severity + half Durability, round up. "Committed" willpower (points that are spent and cannot be recovered until the curse is broken or weakened) may be subsituted: each point of willpower replaces up to three motes of essence. If a curse is weakened by any means, the commitment cost immediately decreases.
== Removing Curses =
To remove a curse, a character must make a Perception + Occult roll at difficulty equal to the curse's Severity. If this roll succeeds, they can make a Durability check for the victim of the curse, substituting Intelligence + Occult for Essence + Resistance, though only once such attempt can be made per day. If the Perception + Occult roll fails, the character must wait at least a week before trying again.
== Advanced Techniques =
=== Triggered Curses =
Are cast without a target in mind, and fling themselves at the first person to fit some conditions.
== Design Notes =
The power scaling of this Art is/will be based on
# The Legendary (5 successes) entry of the Occult ability in the Core Book, which has "curses that visibly work" as an example. (p. 137)
# Mortal Thaumaturgy is the limbless cripple stepchild of the Exalted magic abilities family, and really sucks at direct offensive action (observe the gimpiness of Exorcism)

This is an Art and not a Science because in most relevant literature, the curse laid upon some poor fool by the old woman they just scorned is tailored to their particular offense, not a specific effect like a formula-based Science would require. However, it might be more simply implemented as a high-dot ritual that lays an esoteric curse appropriate to the victim's offense.

Relevant literature is roughly equal to fairy-tales, classical myths, and stories with voodoo in them.
== Comments =
I am unsure that Intelligence is the right Attribute to use, but it seems like the best fit after scanning the Attribute descriptions in the core book. Thoughts? -- ThirtyFirst
:What are the other possible Attributes? Perception might be useful, but other than that, only Manipulation seems appropriate. -- [[Kukla]]
::Well, maybe something like half permanent willpower. But that might be getting overcomplicated. -- ThirtyFirst

When you're making a Ward, you get automatic successes to add to Durability and Strength based on how long you spend on it. Would these measures similarly add automatic advances to Severity and Durability? --[[Kukla]]
:Er, no. The above measures just let you cast the curse - cursing is much harder than warding, since it's an offensive measure, and thaumaturgy sucks at that sort of thing. Automatic successes can be bought in the manner described below, but they're going to be both expensive and capped pretty low. (Though I haven't decided what, yet. My current thought is essence.) -- ThirtyFirst, ''who moved this down into the comments section because I'm nitpicky like that.''

Actually turning someone into anything seems a bit powerful with this sort of thing... I mean, even temporarily, a full on shapechanging effect is in my opinion pushing or exceeding the limits of thaumaturgical power. Making someone (and possibly everyone else, with enough successes) -think- they've been turned into a newt however, seems much more reasonable. What do you think? <br> -- [[Darloth]]
:Oh, certainly. That was my intention with that aspect (hence the Monty Python reference). The 'turning someone into a beast' bit gets a bit more leeway since it's in the 'really bloody high' range of Severity, I think. That and it's in Beauty and the Beast. :P --ThirtyFirst
::True, but that enchantress was nothing more than a Solar who just hit her compassion-related virtue flaw, and then proceeded to unleash some mad shizite on the poor guy. -- GreenLantern, ''pointing out that just because it's been done, doesn't mean a mortal did it, or that it was done without proper sorcery or charms''
:::That may be true, but it's also an example of a high-power "pissed off and vengeful hedge wizard" effect, which is a big part of the flavor I want to capture with this. Rest assured, the system will be scaled such that making effects like that are really, really freaking hard. Impossible? No. It's theoretically possible to ward against the bloody Unconquered Sun or a Deathlord with mortal wards. But it will be really hard. -- ThirtyFirst

Should the interval for making Resistance checks be dependent on Durability, or a flat time period? Likewise, will there be a chart for curse severity? [[Kukla]]
:Resistance check interval is now caster's essence in days, capped at three. Basing the check interval on Durability causes either a sad death spiral at the low end of Dur, or makes high-Dur curses too effective. And there will be a Severity chart, instead of the very vague guidelines, once what each level should be able to do is worked out. -- ThirtyFirst

Kukla: *INTERVALS

2006-03-15T23:03:44Z

*INTERVALS

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 * Inflict one lethal health level of damage on yourself or a willing participant, or kill a non-willing or non-sentient creature, explicitly for the purpose of cursing the target.
-Before the roll is made, automatic sucesses up to the caster's permanent Essence may be purchased for 5 motes, 2 willpower, or 1 lethal health level (separate from any health levels inflicted to cast the curse) per success. These successes are added to the successes gathered on the Intelligence + Occult roll, and divided into Severity (how powerful the curse is) and Durability (how long it lasts).
+Before the roll is made, automatic sucesses up to the caster's permanent Essence may be purchased for 5 motes or 2 willpower per success. These successes are added to the successes gathered on the Intelligence + Occult roll, and divided into Severity (how powerful the curse is) and Durability (how long it lasts).
-Every (some interval), the target rolls Essence + Resistance. Subtract Durability from the number of successes. Each remaining success reduces the curse's Durability by 1. When a curse's Durability is reduced to zero, it is lifted.
+The target reflexively rolls Essence + Resistance when the curse is first cast, and every (the caster's permanent Essence or three, whichever is less) days thereafter. Subtract Durability from the number of successes. Each remaining success reduces the curse's Durability by 1. When a curse's Durability is reduced to zero, it is lifted.
-Severity scale: 1-3 must be subtle effects, 4+ can be obviously effective. 10 is something like turning a lord into a hideous beast (or at least making him ''extremely'' ugly) and casting all his servants into eternal slumber.
+Severity scale: 1-3 must be subtle effects (you are more likely to get a disease), 4+ can be obviously effective (you get a disease). 10 is something like turning a lord into a hideous beast (or at least making him ''extremely'' ugly) and casting all his servants into eternal slumber.
-All curses must have a condition upon which they are lifted. It does not have to be a reasonable condition.
+All curses must have a condition upon which they are lifted. It does not have to be a reasonable condition, but it does have to be conceivably achievable (note that that isn't saying much, given that this is Exalted.)
 Maintaining a curse requires committed motes equal to Severity + half Durability, round up. "Committed" willpower (points that are spent and cannot be recovered until the curse is broken or weakened) may be subsituted: each point of willpower replaces up to three motes of essence. If a curse is weakened by any means, the commitment cost immediately decreases.
 == Removing Curses =
-Per+Occult to figure out how, Man or Int+Occult to do it.
+To remove a curse, a character must make a Perception + Occult roll at difficulty equal to the curse's Severity. If this roll succeeds, they can make a Durability check for the victim of the curse, substituting Intelligence + Occult for Essence + Resistance, though only once such attempt can be made per day. If the Perception + Occult roll fails, the character must wait at least a week before trying again.
 == Advanced Techniques =
 === Triggered Curses =
@@ Line 40: / Line 40: @@
 Relevant literature is roughly equal to fairy-tales, classical myths, and stories with voodoo in them.
 == Comments =
-I am unsure that Intelligence is the right Attribute to use, but it seems like the best fit after scanning the Attribute descriptions in the core book. Thoughts? -- ThirtyFirst
+I am unsure that Intelligence is the right Attribute to use, but it seems like the best fit after scanning the Attribute descriptions in the core book. Thoughts? -- [[ThirtyFirst]]
 :What are the other possible Attributes?  Perception might be useful, but other than that, only Manipulation seems appropriate. -- [[Kukla]]
-::Well, maybe something like half permanent willpower. But that might be getting overcomplicated. -- ThirtyFirst
+::Well, maybe something like half permanent willpower. But that might be getting overcomplicated. -- [[ThirtyFirst]]
 When you're making a Ward, you get automatic successes to add to Durability and Strength based on how long you spend on it.  Would these measures similarly add automatic advances to Severity and Durability? --[[Kukla]]
-:Er, no. The above measures just let you cast the curse - cursing is much harder than warding, since it's an offensive measure, and thaumaturgy sucks at that sort of thing. Automatic successes can be bought in the manner described below, but they're going to be both expensive and capped pretty low. (Though I haven't decided what, yet. My current thought is essence.) -- ThirtyFirst ''who moved this down into the comments section because I'm nitpicky like that.''
+:Er, no. The above measures just let you cast the curse - cursing is much harder than warding, since it's an offensive measure, and thaumaturgy sucks at that sort of thing. Automatic successes can be bought in the manner described below, but they're going to be both expensive and capped pretty low. (Though I haven't decided what, yet. My current thought is essence.) -- [[ThirtyFirst]], ''who moved this down into the comments section because I'm nitpicky like that.''
 Actually turning someone into anything seems a bit powerful with this sort of thing... I mean, even temporarily, a full on shapechanging effect is in my opinion pushing or exceeding the limits of thaumaturgical power. Making someone (and possibly everyone else, with enough successes) -think- they've been turned into a newt however, seems much more reasonable. What do you think? <br> -- [[Darloth]]
-:Oh, certainly. That was my intention with that aspect (hence the Monty Python reference). The 'turning someone into a beast' bit gets a bit more leeway since it's in the 'really bloody high' range of Severity, I think. That and it's in Beauty and the Beast. :P --ThirtyFirst
+:Oh, certainly. That was my intention with that aspect (hence the Monty Python reference). The 'turning someone into a beast' bit gets a bit more leeway since it's in the 'really bloody high' range of Severity, I think. That and it's in Beauty and the Beast. :P --[[ThirtyFirst]]
-::True, but that enchantress was nothing more than a Solar who just hit her compassion-related virtue flaw, and then proceeded to unleash some mad shizite on the poor guy. -- GreenLantern, ''pointing out that just because it's been done, doesn't mean a mortal did it, or that it was done without proper sorcery or charms''
+::True, but that enchantress was nothing more than a Solar who just hit her compassion-related virtue flaw, and then proceeded to unleash some mad shizite on the poor guy. -- [[GreenLantern]], ''pointing out that just because it's been done, doesn't mean a mortal did it, or that it was done without proper sorcery or charms''
-:::That may be true, but it's also an example of a high-power "pissed off and vengeful hedge wizard" effect, which is a big part of the flavor I want to capture with this. Rest assured, the system will be scaled such that making effects like that are really, really freaking hard. Impossible? No. It's theoretically possible to ward against the bloody Unconquered Sun or a Deathlord with mortal wards. But it will be really hard. -- ThirtyFirst
+:::That may be true, but it's also an example of a high-power "pissed off and vengeful hedge wizard" effect, which is a big part of the flavor I want to capture with this. Rest assured, the system will be scaled such that making effects like that are really, really freaking hard. Impossible? No. It's theoretically possible to ward against the bloody Unconquered Sun or a Deathlord with mortal wards. But it will be really hard. -- [[ThirtyFirst]]
 Should the interval for making Resistance checks be dependent on Durability, or a flat time period?  Likewise, will there be a chart for curse severity? [[Kukla]]