SocialResolutionSystem/Defense - Revision history

Vizzeroth: *

2005-02-23T07:45:59Z

New page

= Defense from Social Appeals =
The rules seem focused on the person making the appeals, and this is true of the basic system. However, the following points and optional systems are highly recommend. Without them, the system will be much more effective than is perhaps intended!

=== Time Requirements ===
In general, the higher the magnitude of an appeal the longer it should take to make. The storyteller has final say on this issue, but in general trying to rush through especially difficult issues makes it harder to convince someone.

<pre>MAGNITUDE TIME REQUIRED
n/a Reflexive (a few blurted out words)
1 One turn (a simple statement)
2 Several turns (a quick chat)
3 A few minutes (a conversation)
4 30-45 minutes (a presentation)
5 A few hours (a long lecture)
6 A good portion of a day (a legendary debate)</pre>

If you reduce the time spent on the appeal by one place on the chart, you should increase the Opposition rating by 1. If you decrease it by two spaces on the chart, you <b>also</b> eliminate the cap on Opposition, allowing the final difficulty to more than double. More than two spaces should not be allowed at all without a charm or other magical effect; you just can't convince someone to betray everything they love to the Yozi in a few minutes casual conversation.

=== Why Am I Listening to This? ===
It should be noted that, at least in the absence of certain Solar charms, participation in the social process is entirely optional. If you don't like what your hearing, you can always quit paying attention (this doubles the final difficulty), leave, or actively attempt to prevent the appeal from taking place in the first place. The rules for the last are found in Chapter Five of the Corebook, in the Dawn section.

In general, getting someone to talk to you is magnitude 1. It only requires a statement of intent ("can we talk?"), and a simple roll looking for one or two successes (four successes if they ignore you). This still allows the target to spend willpower to avoid listening to you. If the target has a very good reason not to talk to you the optional rule for low magnitude should probably be partially waved (only two willpower required). If he actually knows you're one of the Anathema (or something worse!), then only a single willpower should be required.

=== Counter-Arguements ===
The main form of defense against appeals is the simple <b>Rebuttal</b>. This represents an active attempt to tear down the main structures of the appeal, or simply noting vehemently how it is not important to you. A Rebuttal relies on a quick mind that can react to the changing circumstances of the appeal, and is thus based on the characters Wits attribute. The other half of the rebuttal is one of the character's Virtues, the exact one chosen depending on the nature of the character's counter-arguement.

A character must spend a willpower point to make an effective rebuttal. The rebuttal operates as an active defense, giving the character his Wits + Virtue roll with each success eliminating one success from the appeals roll. In addition, if the characters opponent makes the required difficulty, you are treated as having already ignored it without having to spend another point of willpower. Stunts on the rebuttal should be handled as normal, raising the number of successes needed to make the appeal by 1-3.

A rebuttal, however, is not without risk. If your arguments prove inferior, you provide an opening that your opponent can use against you! If your opponent makes his appeal regardless of your rebuttal, you roll the targeted virtue as normal. If you get a success on the virtue roll, the number of successes required on future appeals is reduced by your rating in that virtue. Even if you fail the virtue roll, the requirement still drops by one.

A character does not need to make a rebuttal attempt if he does not wish to do so, even if he argues against the appeal in order to gain a stunt bonus. In many cases it is better not to do such as the level of emotional involvement necessary to make an appeal renders you vulnerable.

=== Edits ===
Fixed a few spelling errors - [[Vizzeroth]]

Vizzeroth: *

2005-02-23T07:41:30Z

CrownedSun: Long-awaited Counter Arguement rules

2005-02-23T07:32:50Z

Long-awaited Counter Arguement rules

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 === Counter-Arguements ===
-The main form of defense against appeals is the simple <b>Rebuttle</b>. This represents an active attempt to tear down the main structures of the appeal, or simply noting vehemently how it is not important to you. A Rebuttle relies on a quick mind that can react to the changing circumstances of the appeal, and is thus based on the characters Wits attribute. The other half of the rebuttle is one of the characters Virtues, the exact one chosen depending on the nature of the characters counter-arguement.
+The main form of defense against appeals is the simple <b>Rebuttal</b>. This represents an active attempt to tear down the main structures of the appeal, or simply noting vehemently how it is not important to you. A Rebuttle relies on a quick mind that can react to the changing circumstances of the appeal, and is thus based on the characters Wits attribute. The other half of the rebuttle is one of the characters Virtues, the exact one chosen depending on the nature of the characters counter-arguement.
 A character must spend a willpower point to make an effective rebuttle. The rebuttle operates as an active defense, giving the character his Wits + Virtue roll with each success eliminating one success from the appeals roll. In addition, if the characters opponent makes the required difficulty, you are treated as having already ignored it without having to spend another point of willpower. Stunts on the rebuttle should be handled as normal, raising the number of successes needed to make the appeal by 1-3.

@@ Line 19: / Line 19: @@
 It should be noted that, at least in the absence of certain Solar charms, participation in the social process is entirely optional.  If you don't like what your hearing, you can always quit paying attention (this doubles the final difficulty), leave, or actively attempt to prevent the appeal from taking place in the first place.  The rules for the last are found in Chapter Five of the Corebook, in the Dawn section.
-In general, getting someone to talk to you is magnitude 1.  It only requires a statement of intent ("can we talk?"), and a simple roll looking for one or two successes (four successes if they ignore you).  This still allows the target to spend willpower to avoid listening to you.  If the target has a very good reason not to talk to you the optional rule for low magnitude should probably be partially waved (only two willpower required).  If he actually knows you're one of the Anathema (or something worse!), then only a single willpower should be required.
+In general, getting someone to talk to you is magnitude 1.  It only requires a statement of intent ("can we talk?"), and a simple roll looking for one or two successes (four successes if they ignore you).  This still allows the target to spend willpower to avoid listening to you.  If the target has a very good reason not to talk to you the optional rule for low magnitude should probably be partially waved (only two willpower required).  If he actually knows your one of the Anathema (or something worse!), then only a single willpower should be required.
 === Counter-Arguements ===
-The main form of defense against appeals is the simple <b>Rebuttal</b>. This represents an active attempt to tear down the main structures of the appeal, or simply noting vehemently how it is not important to you. A Rebuttal relies on a quick mind that can react to the changing circumstances of the appeal, and is thus based on the characters Wits attribute. The other half of the rebuttal is one of the character's Virtues, the exact one chosen depending on the nature of the character's counter-arguement.
+The main form of defense against appeals is the simple <b>Rebuttle</b>. This represents an active attempt to tear down the main structures of the appeal, or simply noting vehemently how it is not important to you. A Rebuttle relies on a quick mind that can react to the changing circumstances of the appeal, and is thus based on the characters Wits attribute. The other half of the rebuttle is one of the characters Virtues, the exact one chosen depending on the nature of the characters counter-arguement.
-A character must spend a willpower point to make an effective rebuttal. The rebuttal operates as an active defense, giving the character his Wits + Virtue roll with each success eliminating one success from the appeals roll. In addition, if the characters opponent makes the required difficulty, you are treated as having already ignored it without having to spend another point of willpower. Stunts on the rebuttal should be handled as normal, raising the number of successes needed to make the appeal by 1-3.
+A character must spend a willpower point to make an effective rebuttle. The rebuttle operates as an active defense, giving the character his Wits + Virtue roll with each success eliminating one success from the appeals roll. In addition, if the characters opponent makes the required difficulty, you are treated as having already ignored it without having to spend another point of willpower. Stunts on the rebuttle should be handled as normal, raising the number of successes needed to make the appeal by 1-3.
-A rebuttal, however, is not without risk. If your arguments prove inferior, you provide an opening that your opponent can use against you! If your opponent makes his appeal regardless of your rebuttal, you roll the targeted virtue as normal. If you get a success on the virtue roll, the number of successes required on future appeals is reduced by your rating in that virtue. Even if you fail the virtue roll, the requirement still drops by one.
+A rebuttle, however, is not without risk. If your arguements prove inferior, you provide an opening that your opponent can use against you! If your opponent makes his appeal regardless of your rebuttle, you roll the targeted virtue as normal. If you get a success on the virtue roll, the number of successes required on future appeals is reduced by your rating in that virtue. Even if you fail the virtue roll, the requirement still drops by one.
-A character does not need to make a rebuttal attempt if he does not wish to do so, even if he argues against the appeal in order to gain a stunt bonus. In many cases it is better not to do such as the level of emotional involvement necessary to make an appeal renders you vulnerable.
+A character does not need to make a rebuttle attempt if he does not wish to do so, even if he argues against the appeal in order to gain a stunt bonus. In many cases it is better not to do such as the level of emotional involvement necessary to make an appeal renders you vulnerable.