Shataina/DemonSummoning - Revision history

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2010-06-09T01:47:44Z

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2010-04-06T01:17:49Z

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2010-04-05T08:08:07Z

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Shataina: re: FlowsLikeBits

2005-05-16T06:07:21Z

re: FlowsLikeBits

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Gatekeeper1.bakernet.com: *

2005-05-13T06:13:48Z

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@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 Demon-summoning is too easy, and overpowered.  It's also remarkably undramatic, particularly considering how much potential it has.  The sorcerer is calling a powerful, sentient being and raping its free will; but the way this is reflected in canon boils down to little more than, "Hey, look, our sorcerer is a factory of super-awesome, easily controlled, incredibly versatile magical effects!"  "[[Books/SavantAndSorcerer|Savant and Sorcerer]]" (hereafter "S&S", to lapse into lawyerspeak for a moment) tried to fix this a little bit with Rebecca Borgstrom's nifty demon-limit-break system, but I remain unsatisfied.  The demon-summoning system is still, to my eyes, both relatively undramatic and simplistic.
-It's fine with me if sorcerers are overconfident about summoning demons; that's some great grand-hubristic-tragedy material.  What bothers me is that, with the current system, they have <b>cause[[Shataina/DemonSummoning/B]]> to be overconfident.  One might even say that a sorcerer who doesn't summon demons is needlessly crippling herself.  That should never be true; sorcerers who don't summon demons should be doing the wise thing.
+It's fine with me if sorcerers are overconfident about summoning demons; that's some great grand-hubristic-tragedy material.  What bothers me is that, with the current system, they have <b>cause</B> to be overconfident.  One might even say that a sorcerer who doesn't summon demons is needlessly crippling herself.  That should never be true; sorcerers who don't summon demons should be doing the wise thing.
 And I really hate how easy it is to reduce these powerful, sentient beings to a stack of mechanics.  It's practically <b>encouraged</b>.  They're treated like swords or tables or whatever: as utility objects.
@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 I'm sort of keeping the demon-limit-break system, with a few important changes.  It's not that I don't understand what Ms. Borgstrom was trying to do, and it's not that I don't appreciate her particular brand of esoteric monster-psychology.  It's just that I appreciate it somewhere else, i.e., not in my games.
-* A bound demon's mind isn't automatically forced into worshipping its summoner simply because the summoner succeeded on the binding ritual, as implied by "S&S".  The binding ritual has no effect on the demon's psyche beyond forcing it to obey the summoner (she can still use Presence Charms or whatever to make it like her, though).  However, it <b>does[[Shataina/DemonSummoning/B]]> require the demon to serve the spirit as well as the letter of her orders, if it is intelligent enough to understand it.
+* A bound demon's mind isn't automatically forced into worshipping its summoner simply because the summoner succeeded on the binding ritual, as implied by "S&S".  The binding ritual has no effect on the demon's psyche beyond forcing it to obey the summoner (she can still use Presence Charms or whatever to make it like her, though).  However, it <b>does</B> require the demon to serve the spirit as well as the letter of her orders, if it is intelligent enough to understand it.
 * I am also eliminating the different end results of the Limit Break.  A demon whose Limit has broken is, quite simply, free to act according to its own will for a certain period of time, after which the binding reasserts itself.  This time period is: a full day (24 hours) for First Circle demons; an hour for Second Circle demons; and a minute for Third Circle demons.  A strange effect of the Limit Break is that, after it is over, the demon forgets all the actions it undertook during that time; thus, it cannot be forced to reveal them by the summoning sorcerer.  When the binding is done, the demon recovers these lost memories.
 * A bound demon's Limit Break does <b>not</b> go up <b>only</b> if the sorcerer forces it into its listed Limit Break Condition.  It also goes up if the demon is forced to do anything else that it really, really, <b>really</b> is dead-set against, emotionally -- things it would practically <b>never</b> normally do.  For example, Makarios does not only gain Limit if he is kept from bargaining for dreams; he also gains Limit if he is forced to do something that will seriously damage his merchant empire, or if he is forced to kill the daughter he loves.
@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 * Keep in mind that sorcerers don't think of Limit in terms of Limit Break; they don't think, "Gosh, Makarios is at 7," or whatever.  They simply know that if demons are forced to go against themselves too often, the binding can bend long enough for them to do things that are not their summoner's will.  Demons themselves also generally don't exactly know what will make them snap, so the sorcerer can't really order a bound demon to tell her what will make it happen.  A particularly sensitive sorcerer that cultivates a good relationship with her bound demons might be able to figure out what they hate doing most so that she can avoid it flawlessly, and only make them do things they kinda hate.  However, many demons are manipulative and will make it clear that they hate doing everything, so it will be difficult to tell what they <b>really</b> hate doing; not to mention the fact that many demons are used to cruel and bastardly masters, and will not want to give away what it is they hate doing most lest their masters make them do it for fun.  (Also, you can count the number of sorcerers that are sensitive and kind with their demons on the fingers of your left foot.)
-<b><i>Other Changes</i>[[Shataina/DemonSummoning/B]]>
+<b><i>Other Changes</i></B>
 * A summoning sorcerer cannot force a bound demon to spend Willpower, although the demon may do so on its own.

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 Demon-summoning is too easy, and overpowered.  It's also remarkably undramatic, particularly considering how much potential it has.  The sorcerer is calling a powerful, sentient being and raping its free will; but the way this is reflected in canon boils down to little more than, "Hey, look, our sorcerer is a factory of super-awesome, easily controlled, incredibly versatile magical effects!"  "[[Books/SavantAndSorcerer|Savant and Sorcerer]]" (hereafter "S&S", to lapse into lawyerspeak for a moment) tried to fix this a little bit with Rebecca Borgstrom's nifty demon-limit-break system, but I remain unsatisfied.  The demon-summoning system is still, to my eyes, both relatively undramatic and simplistic.
-It's fine with me if sorcerers are overconfident about summoning demons; that's some great grand-hubristic-tragedy material.  What bothers me is that, with the current system, they have <b>cause</B> to be overconfident.  One might even say that a sorcerer who doesn't summon demons is needlessly crippling herself.  That should never be true; sorcerers who don't summon demons should be doing the wise thing.
+It's fine with me if sorcerers are overconfident about summoning demons; that's some great grand-hubristic-tragedy material.  What bothers me is that, with the current system, they have <b>cause[[Shataina/DemonSummoning/B]]> to be overconfident.  One might even say that a sorcerer who doesn't summon demons is needlessly crippling herself.  That should never be true; sorcerers who don't summon demons should be doing the wise thing.
 And I really hate how easy it is to reduce these powerful, sentient beings to a stack of mechanics.  It's practically <b>encouraged</b>.  They're treated like swords or tables or whatever: as utility objects.
@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 I'm sort of keeping the demon-limit-break system, with a few important changes.  It's not that I don't understand what Ms. Borgstrom was trying to do, and it's not that I don't appreciate her particular brand of esoteric monster-psychology.  It's just that I appreciate it somewhere else, i.e., not in my games.
-* A bound demon's mind isn't automatically forced into worshipping its summoner simply because the summoner succeeded on the binding ritual, as implied by "S&S".  The binding ritual has no effect on the demon's psyche beyond forcing it to obey the summoner (she can still use Presence Charms or whatever to make it like her, though).  However, it <b>does</B> require the demon to serve the spirit as well as the letter of her orders, if it is intelligent enough to understand it.
+* A bound demon's mind isn't automatically forced into worshipping its summoner simply because the summoner succeeded on the binding ritual, as implied by "S&S".  The binding ritual has no effect on the demon's psyche beyond forcing it to obey the summoner (she can still use Presence Charms or whatever to make it like her, though).  However, it <b>does[[Shataina/DemonSummoning/B]]> require the demon to serve the spirit as well as the letter of her orders, if it is intelligent enough to understand it.
 * I am also eliminating the different end results of the Limit Break.  A demon whose Limit has broken is, quite simply, free to act according to its own will for a certain period of time, after which the binding reasserts itself.  This time period is: a full day (24 hours) for First Circle demons; an hour for Second Circle demons; and a minute for Third Circle demons.  A strange effect of the Limit Break is that, after it is over, the demon forgets all the actions it undertook during that time; thus, it cannot be forced to reveal them by the summoning sorcerer.  When the binding is done, the demon recovers these lost memories.
 * A bound demon's Limit Break does <b>not</b> go up <b>only</b> if the sorcerer forces it into its listed Limit Break Condition.  It also goes up if the demon is forced to do anything else that it really, really, <b>really</b> is dead-set against, emotionally -- things it would practically <b>never</b> normally do.  For example, Makarios does not only gain Limit if he is kept from bargaining for dreams; he also gains Limit if he is forced to do something that will seriously damage his merchant empire, or if he is forced to kill the daughter he loves.
@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 * Keep in mind that sorcerers don't think of Limit in terms of Limit Break; they don't think, "Gosh, Makarios is at 7," or whatever.  They simply know that if demons are forced to go against themselves too often, the binding can bend long enough for them to do things that are not their summoner's will.  Demons themselves also generally don't exactly know what will make them snap, so the sorcerer can't really order a bound demon to tell her what will make it happen.  A particularly sensitive sorcerer that cultivates a good relationship with her bound demons might be able to figure out what they hate doing most so that she can avoid it flawlessly, and only make them do things they kinda hate.  However, many demons are manipulative and will make it clear that they hate doing everything, so it will be difficult to tell what they <b>really</b> hate doing; not to mention the fact that many demons are used to cruel and bastardly masters, and will not want to give away what it is they hate doing most lest their masters make them do it for fun.  (Also, you can count the number of sorcerers that are sensitive and kind with their demons on the fingers of your left foot.)
-<b><i>Other Changes</i></B>
+<b><i>Other Changes</i>[[Shataina/DemonSummoning/B]]>
 * A summoning sorcerer cannot force a bound demon to spend Willpower, although the demon may do so on its own.