Nikink/IKMatch7 - Revision history

Wordman: Script: fix links messed up in conversion

2010-06-09T00:27:57Z

Script: fix links messed up in conversion

Muzz: /* Observer Comments */

2010-05-09T15:38:16Z

‎Observer Comments

Bencyclopedia at 13:45, 9 May 2010

2010-05-09T13:45:11Z

Nikink: /* Home player */

2010-05-07T03:58:53Z

‎Home player

Sabis: /* Home player */

2010-05-06T15:31:50Z

‎Home player

Nikink: /* Home player */

2010-05-06T11:32:01Z

‎Home player

Sabis: /* Home player */

2010-05-06T10:41:21Z

‎Home player

Nikink: /* Home player */

2010-05-06T03:25:24Z

‎Home player

Sabis: /* Away player */

2010-05-06T02:07:16Z

‎Away player

Nikink: /* Player Chat */ A draw!

2010-05-06T01:33:58Z

‎Player Chat: A draw!

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Contestants ==
-[[Sabis/TwiceClashingLightning| Twice Clashing Lightning]] - Dawn Caste - Arms of the Unconquered Sun Style
+[[Sabis/TwiceClashingLightning|Twice Clashing Lightning]] - Dawn Caste - Arms of the Unconquered Sun Style
-[[Nikink/TheHorrorUnderLockAndKey| The Horror Under Lock and Key]] - Slayer Caste - Infernal Monster Style
+[[Nikink/TheHorrorUnderLockAndKey|The Horror Under Lock and Key]] - Slayer Caste - Infernal Monster Style
 . Full Essence 5 builds allowed (Yay Essence 5 Debut!)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:38, 9 May 2010
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	Wah Wah Wah! You could always give helpful advice, start cheering for someone, or accept one of the other online challengers in the meantime. ;) [[nikink]]		Wah Wah Wah! You could always give helpful advice, start cheering for someone, or accept one of the other online challengers in the meantime. ;) [[nikink]]
		+
		+	I'm more then happy to take on an online challenge, it just wont be as fast as others considering my lifestyle...... I mean...... my memory. - [[Muzz]]

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 Couple answers:
 :2. +2.5DV and +5 accuracy (+ other benefits) is a permanent saving of 5m on every attack and defence at least. Giving a lot of leeway to put those motes elsewhere, or alternatively ''into'' attack/defence to truly guarantee success. This is on ''every'' action. Plus other the other benefits I'm not taking into consideration. All for a paltry 8 motes is it? I do feel they are too good, for Artifact 4 at least. Note that I have no problem with TCL or any other character having them if they can get them (they're not Void Avatar Prana broken, or the like). But I do think they skew results heavily towards those that have them. If this Kombat goes for long enough to have enough results I may be convinced otherwise. :)
 :4 My problem with the First Form activation brokenness is that it prevents any weakness during that activation. The Style gives a defence for every keyword in the game (+ other benefits per Form). So when a practitioner says I activate a Form for 5m Speed 5, no opponent actually knows what Form is being activated until they attack, and then it's guaranteed to be the Form most effective against them (or beneficial to the martial artist as the case may be). It's a quantum uncertainty effect that plays on the players, not just the characters. Effectively it says "I don't need to tell you what Form I'm activating until you do something I don't like". Every other Style in the game gives that window of vulnerability during the Form activation, and for good reason - Form effects are generally pretty good buffs - and Forms are not combo-able. This style says on the first Form activation you ''do'' effectively have a combo (in as much as you get more than one charm to use - you aren't locked into the one) and it doesn't even cost a willpower.
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 :5. It probably helps (and hinders) that I've been playing Exalted since 1st Ed first came out. But I also asked this on the WW Forums and got unanimous confirmation. The only splat who can add more than their cap is Sids, and they can only add enough extra to cancel wound penalties if they are anything like 1st Ed. :)
 :8. You had plenty of opportunity to punch... Chicken! ;) (Funny enough, if HULK could ever establish a Fear intimacy during the matches, he'd get just that more effective. :) )

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:58, 7 May 2010
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	::You're clear. =) But not all the defenses will protect you effectively at the same time... For instance, I wanted to use Shining Sun form to ignore your knockback/knockdown effects. I was FORCED to use Sleeping Sun because I would be crushed if I did not. While in that form, i could not use my fast movement or clinch enhancing or piercing. While i can change effects often, in the end it comes down to an Either/Or kinda deal. I can EITHER be immune to 1 of 4 keywords, OR do x or y or z. If i wanted to be immune to KB/KD/Sickness, do extra damage, or copy other forms, or move fast, or..... etc. So yes, powerful in it's versatilty, but you don't get to just pick and choose. Also, the whole window of vulnerability is not that big, considering when you enact any form you immediately reap all the benefits, AotUC just gives you more versatility in that choice (of what you happen to be strong/weak against). OTOH it also means that there's 3 dead charms in the tree on every fight. Solars do have an advantage in being able to do non-charm excellencies to protect themselves while doing Form assumption. -[[Sabis]]		::You're clear. =) But not all the defenses will protect you effectively at the same time... For instance, I wanted to use Shining Sun form to ignore your knockback/knockdown effects. I was FORCED to use Sleeping Sun because I would be crushed if I did not. While in that form, i could not use my fast movement or clinch enhancing or piercing. While i can change effects often, in the end it comes down to an Either/Or kinda deal. I can EITHER be immune to 1 of 4 keywords, OR do x or y or z. If i wanted to be immune to KB/KD/Sickness, do extra damage, or copy other forms, or move fast, or..... etc. So yes, powerful in it's versatilty, but you don't get to just pick and choose. Also, the whole window of vulnerability is not that big, considering when you enact any form you immediately reap all the benefits, AotUC just gives you more versatility in that choice (of what you happen to be strong/weak against). OTOH it also means that there's 3 dead charms in the tree on every fight. Solars do have an advantage in being able to do non-charm excellencies to protect themselves while doing Form assumption. -[[Sabis]]
		+
		+	::But you ''do'' get to pick and choose during that initial activation. You have no weaknessess for that period because your opponent ''does not know'' what form you are actually using until they try to attack - it's a bluff against the ''player'' which goes against the system's ostensible "Charm Transparency" goals. An enemy would need to cover three keyworded attacks in order to threaten. The first KW Attack is stumped by your initial declaration of "I activate Form A" rendering you immune, so your enemy then has to decide which of the last two KW Attacks to try, and it doesn't matter which one is chosen because you can immediately say "I swap to Form B as a matter of fact" and get immunity again. Thus it's the 3rd KW attack that has any chance of threatening you at all. And this swap is for a ''single'' Mote. [[nikink]]

	:5. It probably helps (and hinders) that I've been playing Exalted since 1st Ed first came out. But I also asked this on the WW Forums and got unanimous confirmation. The only splat who can add more than their cap is Sids, and they can only add enough extra to cancel wound penalties if they are anything like 1st Ed. :)		:5. It probably helps (and hinders) that I've been playing Exalted since 1st Ed first came out. But I also asked this on the WW Forums and got unanimous confirmation. The only splat who can add more than their cap is Sids, and they can only add enough extra to cancel wound penalties if they are anything like 1st Ed. :)

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 :4 My problem with the First Form activation brokenness is that it prevents any weakness during that activation. The Style gives a defence for every keyword in the game (+ other benefits per Form). So when a practitioner says I activate a Form for 5m Speed 5, no opponent actually knows what Form is being activated until they attack, and then it's guaranteed to be the Form most effective against them (or beneficial to the martial artist as the case may be). It's a quantum uncertainty effect that plays on the players, not just the characters. Effectively it says "I don't need to tell you what Form I'm activating until you do something I don't like". Every other Style in the game gives that window of vulnerability during the Form activation, and for good reason - Form effects are generally pretty good buffs - and Forms are not combo-able. This style says on the first Form activation you ''do'' effectively have a combo (in as much as you get more than one charm to use - you aren't locked into the one) and it doesn't even cost a willpower.
 :Note, I'm not against the switching on any other action, as per what HaES states. It's just this initial activation. Have I made myself clear, here or just waffled on and muddied things? (I tend to waffle!)
 :5. It probably helps (and hinders) that I've been playing Exalted since 1st Ed first came out. But I also asked this on the WW Forums and got unanimous confirmation. The only splat who can add more than their cap is Sids, and they can only add enough extra to cancel wound penalties if they are anything like 1st Ed. :)

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:32, 6 May 2010
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	8: Same to you. Regardless of not getting to punch you, it was good fun. =)		8: Same to you. Regardless of not getting to punch you, it was good fun. =)
		+
		+	Couple answers:
		+	:2. +2.5DV and +5 accuracy (+ other benefits) is a permanent saving of 5m on every attack and defence at least. Giving a lot of leeway to put those motes elsewhere, or alternatively ''into'' attack/defence to truly guarantee success. This is on ''every'' action. Plus other the other benefits I'm not taking into consideration. All for a paltry 8 motes is it? I do feel they are too good, for Artifact 4 at least. Note that I have no problem with TCL or any other character having them if they can get them (they're not Void Avatar Prana broken, or the like). But I do think they skew results heavily towards those that have them. If this Kombat goes for long enough to have enough results I may be convinced otherwise. :)
		+
		+	:4 My problem with the First Form activation brokenness is that it prevents any weakness during that activation. The Style gives a defence for every keyword in the game (+ other benefits per Form). So when a practitioner says I activate a Form for 5m Speed 5, no opponent actually knows what Form is being activated until they attack, and then it's guaranteed to be the Form most effective against them (or beneficial to the martial artist as the case may be). It's a quantum uncertainty effect that plays on the players, not just the characters. Effectively it says "I don't need to tell you what Form I'm activating until you do something I don't like". Every other Style in the game gives that window of vulnerability during the Form activation, and for good reason - Form effects are generally pretty good buffs - and Forms are not combo-able. This style says on the first Form activation you ''do'' effectively have a combo (in as much as you get more than one charm to use - you aren't locked into the one) and it doesn't even cost a willpower.
		+	:Note, I'm not against the switching on any other action, as per what HaES states. It's just this initial activation. Have I made myself clear, here or just waffled on and muddied things? (I tend to waffle!)
		+
		+	:5. It probably helps (and hinders) that I've been playing Exalted since 1st Ed first came out. But I also asked this on the WW Forums and got unanimous confirmation. The only splat who can add more than their cap is Sids, and they can only add enough extra to cancel wound penalties if they are anything like 1st Ed. :)
		+
		+	:8. You had plenty of opportunity to punch... Chicken! ;) (Funny enough, if HULK could ever establish a Fear intimacy during the matches, he'd get just that more effective. :) )
		+
		+	-[[nikink]]

	=== Away player ===		=== Away player ===

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:41, 6 May 2010
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	[[Nikink]]		[[Nikink]]
		+
		+	Couple questions/comments:
		+	2: All the PCB's did in this match up was add 2.5 to my DV, and theoretically they helped make sure I would hit all the time. Their damage addition seems irrelevant (as most exalt on exalt combat comes down to lots of ping anyhow). What part of them seems to be so much better?
		+
		+	4: Form switch on the first activation seems not that broken: I could have activated Sleeping Sun Form to start, the difference is 1 action tick and 1 committed mote. I didn't get to switch for the rest of the game for fear of more combo, but since i was at the die cap already for defense, if I got IMAM up I could have done a lot more. With the one per action limit so you can't use a defensive and offensive one before your opponent gets to act, it seems to be like most other choices: Do I be safe and hang back, or do I go for broke and hope for the best?
		+
		+	5: It's one of those things that needs to be clarified in the rules: If we have an order of modifiers that are applied like so, Does the game look at the total modifiers applied from the start to the finish, or does it look at the modifiers at each step? If it looks from start to finish, I don't get a to add defense. If it looks at each step, I do. Also, I noticed yesterday that the wording in the main book vs the others is different. Main book says "cannot increase by more than", whereas lunars says "may not add more than". If you look at that as a typo in the main book, I'd say your interpretation is more likely the one that's correct.
		+
		+	8: Same to you. Regardless of not getting to punch you, it was good fun. =)

	=== Away player ===		=== Away player ===

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:25, 6 May 2010
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	=== Home player ===		=== Home player ===
		+	1. The format for these 'Kombats' is weighted against Infernals (and in favour of Alchemicals, but that's a different discussion). Other splats get N extra Charms, one of which may be a MA Excellency, but Infernals get shafted by their Excellency requirements and thus if they choose to get an excellency are limited to (N-Ess) other Charms. In normal play this is fine, as each Infernal Excellency covers all Abilities, but in a set up like this, it is a definite hindrance.
		+
		+	2. Fighting someone you can't hit short of stupid mistakes on their behalf is not very fun.
		+
		+	3. Perfected Kata Bracers are too good. Perhaps another match with ''no'' artifacts? :) I notice Zero Artifact matches are unpopular (so far at least). Maybe there should be another match-up for 'Equal Artifacts'? So if one person wants PKBs, then the other gets them too... Meh. It's already part of the opening negotiations I suppose. I'd like to see more matches without Artifact variability, basically. "My Kung Fu is ''UNBEATABLE''!, (if I have a butt load of uber magic stuff and my opponent doesn't)" doesn't really help decide who's kung-fu is the greatest. :)
		+
		+	4. I maintain that the ability to Form Switch at the same time as activating the very first Form of the Style is totally broken. Not dissing Sabis here, btw, it was a move perfectly allowable by the rules of the Style as written, and even confirmed as intended to be used in this manner by Holden (the author). But I do think that ability is a broken effect and needs fixing.
		+
		+	5. The rules definitely say a Solar may not add more successes via a Charms than half the Attribute + Ability, so I think the use of MA Essence Flow was incorrect on Tick 5. Only Sidereals get to negate penalties with their excellency before counting towards their dice cap. HULK would not have hit anyway so this is a small point that makes no difference, but I felt it was worth pointing out for future reference.
		+
		+	6. I am disappointed my worthy foe didn't swing a punch! :( HULK can't activate Raging Behemoth Charge until he sees an attack made at him!!! ;)
		+
		+	7. Frankly, a Draw is the best outcome for HULK here. If he could have caught TCL during an action in which TCL had:
		+	:A. Used another charm
		+	:B. Already switched to a Form that wasn't useful against the HULK attack
		+	and ''if'' HULK had enough motes, then just possibly HULK could have pinged TCL to incapacitated with one combo. Trying to arrange this series of very unlikely events could easily have taken a lot longer than the 50 Ticks TCL needed to ping HULK to death.
		+
		+	8. Many props to Sabis for being sporting and a gentleman. :) A pleasure to play against!
		+
		+	[[Nikink]]

	=== Away player ===		=== Away player ===

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:07, 6 May 2010
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	=== Away player ===		=== Away player ===
		+	Enemies with over 9000 health levels that roll over into agg before actually killing them is super hard to deal with, at the very least overly time consuming.
		+
		+	I need to do better at initiative. Starting off the fight with the slow going made me use WAY too many motes for temporary effects, when i need them for scene long effects.
		+
		+	Switching forms as needed is pretty cool.
		+
		+	I need to have 3 persistent charms up to be truly effective, and while I do that they can get the jump on me. Anyone with a 15-20 Accuracy attack and an urge to spend willpower on valor channels would have finished me right there. (or forced me to spend 30-40 motes to defend myself, which is also not acceptable.) Too bad you can't combo Infinite MA mastery or Form charms with ANYTHING. (It really seems like IMAM should be combo OK or combo basic.)
		+
		+	Arms of the UC style needs to be paired with a Initiative adder, like 1st awareness excellency or some such.

	=== Observers ===		=== Observers ===

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:33, 6 May 2010
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	Hmm. If i get IMM up, I can hit reliably with an average of 11.5 attack successes vs your best DV of 8. Assuming you don't spend time putting up VLE, my 15L punches do an average of 18L-16L soak for 5L ping damage. 40% is 2 average sux per hit, so, it'd take 29 average hits to deal the 58 damage necessary to put you down. All the while, as long as I either used 2nd excellency or Burned into Night combo, I can keep my DV at 17 vs your average attack sux of 6.5. So my victory is likely, but I don't realy wana go through the (minimum) 50 ticks necessary to kill you. So yea, I'd agree to a draw. =) -[[Sabis]]		Hmm. If i get IMM up, I can hit reliably with an average of 11.5 attack successes vs your best DV of 8. Assuming you don't spend time putting up VLE, my 15L punches do an average of 18L-16L soak for 5L ping damage. 40% is 2 average sux per hit, so, it'd take 29 average hits to deal the 58 damage necessary to put you down. All the while, as long as I either used 2nd excellency or Burned into Night combo, I can keep my DV at 17 vs your average attack sux of 6.5. So my victory is likely, but I don't realy wana go through the (minimum) 50 ticks necessary to kill you. So yea, I'd agree to a draw. =) -[[Sabis]]
		+
		+	Done. A draw it is. Hmmm... I needed to get motes back, and it's hard to stunt guarding and walking all the time. I also needed to catch you without a charm action, ''and'' without a Form Swap available. This was going to be difficult. Astoundingly difficult. [[nikink]]

	== Observer Comments ==		== Observer Comments ==