MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle - Revision history

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2010-06-08T23:48:26Z

Script: fix links messed up in conversion

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2010-04-06T01:16:57Z

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2010-04-05T08:07:25Z

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2010-04-03T09:04:07Z

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2006-09-03T12:30:46Z

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2006-04-23T17:31:42Z

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 === Comments ===
-Infant stage discussion archived at[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/TerrestrialInfancy]] - [[IanPrice]]
+Infant stage discussion archived at[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialInfancy]] - [[IanPrice]]
 Perhaps you should consider merging schoolboy and lover into adolescent, which fits the style of this style better, I think.
@@ Line 265: / Line 265: @@
 :I think that captures what you were trying to do, in a less kludge-y way. If you agree, feel free to stick it in there. If not, let's discuss. - [[IanPrice]]
-(I had an error on my own I just fixed for mote cost, which I just fixed, sorry) What you're suggesting isn't quite the effect I was going for. As it is now, lets say I want three autosuccesses on all my willpower expenditures, and added on to my Channels. I would have to pay 3 + 7 + 7 +7 motes (24 motes). I would then gain this benifit for three scenes, losesing the ability to use or <B><I>benifit[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/I]]>[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/B]]> from synergistic charms  for three scenes <I>Even if I want to[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/I]]>. I designed it to have a nice synergy with Nascent Blossom of Adolescence Form and Stinging Embarassment Mantra, but in return, oonce you've used it, you've given up a lot of other options for a while. Since, to some extent, the duration is the punishing factor, I didn't want people to be force to commet their hole pool towards the effect. The willpower loophole exists for when you really made a mistake activating the charm. - [[Dasmen]]
+(I had an error on my own I just fixed for mote cost, which I just fixed, sorry) What you're suggesting isn't quite the effect I was going for. As it is now, lets say I want three autosuccesses on all my willpower expenditures, and added on to my Channels. I would have to pay 3 + 7 + 7 +7 motes (24 motes). I would then gain this benifit for three scenes, losesing the ability to use or <B><I>benifit</I></B> from synergistic charms  for three scenes <I>Even if I want to</I>. I designed it to have a nice synergy with Nascent Blossom of Adolescence Form and Stinging Embarassment Mantra, but in return, oonce you've used it, you've given up a lot of other options for a while. Since, to some extent, the duration is the punishing factor, I didn't want people to be force to commet their hole pool towards the effect. The willpower loophole exists for when you really made a mistake activating the charm. - [[Dasmen]]
 :as far as I can tell... What [[IanPrice]] and what you are suggesting are basically the same mechanical effect, but with differing interpretations of duration. However... on careful re-reading (and this bit isn't obvious, so I shall make it so here) the tradeoff that differs in [[Dasmen]]'s interpretation is this... The more power (successes) you want out of this charm... the longer it has to last as WELL as the more you have to pay. Now, admittedly, you get this power for longer, but the unendable nature gives it a heavy drawback. I think that's the main difference as to with [[IanPrice]]'s version. Sadly, while the duration-power balance is a nice one, it <i>does</i> cause a hideously fiddly mechanic... With so many complicated fiddly bits already, I think a reinterpretation to either formalize the duration = power but less flexibility as a core concept, and get rid of all the other kludge, or drop the duration and keep the rest, like [[IanPrice]] is suggesting (maybe by accident though). Does that clear stuff up perhaps?<br> -- [[Darloth]] <i>is aware that it is late and his explanation is probably also not the clearest there could be. Ah, for clarity.</i>
@@ Line 271: / Line 271: @@
 :That's exactly what I was, intentionally, suggesting. I now recommend dropping duration = power mechanic and keeping the "difficult to end" mechanic. To wit, have the charm be indefinitely committed (probably 4m per autosuccess), but it can only be ended by some big expenditure. - [[IanPrice]]
-:With that much committed, you're fighting at much less then your best, and this is supposed to be a <B>I Stand Alone[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/B]]> Charm. You may be right, it just feel wrong. If I can't figure something out tomarrow, I'll change it to your suggestion, just give me a bit to think. -[[Dasmen]]
+:With that much committed, you're fighting at much less then your best, and this is supposed to be a <B>I Stand Alone</B> Charm. You may be right, it just feel wrong. If I can't figure something out tomarrow, I'll change it to your suggestion, just give me a bit to think. -[[Dasmen]]
 ::I would suggest being clear on what is considered a synergistic charm. IIRC, Dragon Blooded have some specific charms with that ability. And Soldier and Statesman form isn't one of them. You need to be clear what specificly is meant. Personally, I would just buy the autosuccesses and duration sepereratly. Say 3 motes per autosucc + 2 motes per scene or duration. (I would go wtih hours for the duration, rather than scenes, as it's really difficult to determine multiple scene lengths. So, say 2 motes per hour. ) The ending penalty is fine as is. Also, I don't consider the synergy restrictions that limiting. -[[FlowsLikeBits]]
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 To FLB: I like it. Would the perfect perception apply to the Essence awareness of the previous charm if it were active? Obviously you've excluded that from the die bonus, but I wonder about the other combination.
-::::Fixed this. Was supposed to be awareness, rather than perception. Bad word choice at the time. - [[FlowsLikeBits | FLB ]]
+::::Fixed this. Was supposed to be awareness, rather than perception. Bad word choice at the time. - [[FlowsLikeBits|FLB ]]
 To Dasmen: I know, it's frustrating when people tell you that what you want to do with a charm isn't viable. Unfortunately, I think that's the situation we have here. Charms need to be simple effects, and you've got several different things going on in your design, each of which could be the core of a charm. You have the duration:power ratio, you have the powerful but limiting effect which is difficult to end, and you have a charm which conditionally adds autosuccesses. A charm can have two halves: a setup, and the actual benefits. For many charms, the conditions on the autosuccesses (in this case, "when you spend willpower for the one you'd normally get") would be considered the setup. In this case, you're also putting a limitation on the power so it can be greater, but your current design doesn't just have one limitation, it has two. This is too much. It overcomplicates things. Thus, I recommend choosing either the duration:power ratio (requiring people to pay a higher cost because they buy duration <i>and</i> power), or the powerful but limiting (prevents group bonus charms from applying) effect which is difficult to end.

@@ Line 205: / Line 205: @@
 === Comments ===
-Infant stage discussion archived at [[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/TerrestrialInfancy]] - [[IanPrice]]
+Infant stage discussion archived at[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/TerrestrialInfancy]] - [[IanPrice]]
 Perhaps you should consider merging schoolboy and lover into adolescent, which fits the style of this style better, I think.
@@ Line 265: / Line 265: @@
 :I think that captures what you were trying to do, in a less kludge-y way. If you agree, feel free to stick it in there. If not, let's discuss. - [[IanPrice]]
-(I had an error on my own I just fixed for mote cost, which I just fixed, sorry) What you're suggesting isn't quite the effect I was going for. As it is now, lets say I want three autosuccesses on all my willpower expenditures, and added on to my Channels. I would have to pay 3 + 7 + 7 +7 motes (24 motes). I would then gain this benifit for three scenes, losesing the ability to use or <B><I>benifit</I></B> from synergistic charms  for three scenes <I>Even if I want to</I>. I designed it to have a nice synergy with Nascent Blossom of Adolescence Form and Stinging Embarassment Mantra, but in return, oonce you've used it, you've given up a lot of other options for a while. Since, to some extent, the duration is the punishing factor, I didn't want people to be force to commet their hole pool towards the effect. The willpower loophole exists for when you really made a mistake activating the charm. - [[Dasmen]]
+(I had an error on my own I just fixed for mote cost, which I just fixed, sorry) What you're suggesting isn't quite the effect I was going for. As it is now, lets say I want three autosuccesses on all my willpower expenditures, and added on to my Channels. I would have to pay 3 + 7 + 7 +7 motes (24 motes). I would then gain this benifit for three scenes, losesing the ability to use or <B><I>benifit[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/I]]>[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/B]]> from synergistic charms  for three scenes <I>Even if I want to[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/I]]>. I designed it to have a nice synergy with Nascent Blossom of Adolescence Form and Stinging Embarassment Mantra, but in return, oonce you've used it, you've given up a lot of other options for a while. Since, to some extent, the duration is the punishing factor, I didn't want people to be force to commet their hole pool towards the effect. The willpower loophole exists for when you really made a mistake activating the charm. - [[Dasmen]]
 :as far as I can tell... What [[IanPrice]] and what you are suggesting are basically the same mechanical effect, but with differing interpretations of duration. However... on careful re-reading (and this bit isn't obvious, so I shall make it so here) the tradeoff that differs in [[Dasmen]]'s interpretation is this... The more power (successes) you want out of this charm... the longer it has to last as WELL as the more you have to pay. Now, admittedly, you get this power for longer, but the unendable nature gives it a heavy drawback. I think that's the main difference as to with [[IanPrice]]'s version. Sadly, while the duration-power balance is a nice one, it <i>does</i> cause a hideously fiddly mechanic... With so many complicated fiddly bits already, I think a reinterpretation to either formalize the duration = power but less flexibility as a core concept, and get rid of all the other kludge, or drop the duration and keep the rest, like [[IanPrice]] is suggesting (maybe by accident though). Does that clear stuff up perhaps?<br> -- [[Darloth]] <i>is aware that it is late and his explanation is probably also not the clearest there could be. Ah, for clarity.</i>
@@ Line 271: / Line 271: @@
 :That's exactly what I was, intentionally, suggesting. I now recommend dropping duration = power mechanic and keeping the "difficult to end" mechanic. To wit, have the charm be indefinitely committed (probably 4m per autosuccess), but it can only be ended by some big expenditure. - [[IanPrice]]
-:With that much committed, you're fighting at much less then your best, and this is supposed to be a <B>I Stand Alone</B> Charm. You may be right, it just feel wrong. If I can't figure something out tomarrow, I'll change it to your suggestion, just give me a bit to think. -[[Dasmen]]
+:With that much committed, you're fighting at much less then your best, and this is supposed to be a <B>I Stand Alone[[MartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/B]]> Charm. You may be right, it just feel wrong. If I can't figure something out tomarrow, I'll change it to your suggestion, just give me a bit to think. -[[Dasmen]]
 ::I would suggest being clear on what is considered a synergistic charm. IIRC, Dragon Blooded have some specific charms with that ability. And Soldier and Statesman form isn't one of them. You need to be clear what specificly is meant. Personally, I would just buy the autosuccesses and duration sepereratly. Say 3 motes per autosucc + 2 motes per scene or duration. (I would go wtih hours for the duration, rather than scenes, as it's really difficult to determine multiple scene lengths. So, say 2 motes per hour. ) The ending penalty is fine as is. Also, I don't consider the synergy restrictions that limiting. -[[FlowsLikeBits]]
@@ Line 284: / Line 284: @@
 My thoughts. - [[IanPrice]]
-Ian: Well said. I really like the mention of how a charm most often has a setup and a benefit. It's a simple thing, but one of the things that really separates charms from sorcery in practice, as sorcery often has a much more complicated, or much less complicated setup. Perhaps something towards this end should be written up on a high level [[CharmTheory]] page? (With a rather heavy copy-paste from the [[[TheMyriadOfShadesMartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/CharmTheory]]] page, perhaps? Also, get your butt over to [[[SolarCraftMartialArtsRelay/TerrestrialSphereStyle/GregLink]]] and make with the commenting. Not to be too pushy or anything :). -- [[GregLink]]
+Ian: Well said. I really like the mention of how a charm most often has a setup and a benefit. It's a simple thing, but one of the things that really separates charms from sorcery in practice, as sorcery often has a much more complicated, or much less complicated setup. Perhaps something towards this end should be written up on a high level [[CharmTheory]] page? (With a rather heavy copy-paste from the [[[TheMyriadOfShades/CharmTheory]]] page, perhaps? Also, get your butt over to [[[SolarCraft/GregLink]]] and make with the commenting. Not to be too pushy or anything :). -- [[GregLink]]
 This has been somewhat dead, but seeing as I'm a labyrinth circle necromancer, well I have a solution - [[Dasmen]] (serving the Malfeas)