FixTheSolarCharmTrees/DurabilityOfOakMeditation - Revision history

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2010-04-06T01:15:57Z

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2010-04-06T00:35:41Z

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2010-04-05T08:06:40Z

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2010-04-03T09:02:57Z

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Lipperman: *

2004-02-25T14:34:28Z

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== Official Charm ==
My revision is so basic that I don't bother to describe the original version.

== [[Clebo]]'s version ==
In order to reduce the number of dice rolled, I have changed so that the Solar get 2 bashing soak for each mote spent, up to Stamina + Resistance. Otherwise, the charm is identical to canon.

== [[Delta_I]]'s version ==
Same as Clebo's, just 1 per soak, as everybody suggested. It makes on average the same soak per essence as the rolled version, but has no randomness. Wave the limitation of soak per turn, as having a decent soak is slow enough with the resistance Charms (it keeps the same maximum soak, though).

===== Vote Tally =====
== Official Version ==
#CrownedSun
#MetalFatigue

== [[Clebo]]'s Version ==
#[[Clebo]]
#[[Lipperman]]

== [[Delta_I]]'s Version ==
#[[Delta_I]]
#[[Blaque]]
#[[Braydz]]
#BrokenShade
#[[Morpheus]]
#SilverMeerKat
#Domon

===== Comments =====
The 1 for 2 is too cheap. Sure, Golden Essence Block gives you two dice for one mote, but you're only likely to get one success from it. If Durability of Oak Meditation gives you 2 points of soak for each mote, it's about twice as effective. I like the randomness of the canon charm, but doing away with excess dice rolling is a fine and noble ambition. -- OnyxChasm

I also think 1 for 2 is a bit cheap to be honest. 1 for 1 is probably more reasonable. It balances with the fact that Iron Skin Concentration will make that all extra lethal soak. So for eight motes, you suddenly have an additional ten lethal soak, which doesn't sit well for me to be hoenst. It surpasses Glorious Solar Plate quick IMHO. 1 for 1 also makes it about the same cost of the equivalent Abyssal Charms, which cost health levels and give armro, which is penetrable. Durability of Oak's advantage would be it doesn't cost health, and doesn't count as armor against Charmst hat effect such, at the price of being useless against aggravated damage.

Or something. I'm sorta torn on this really. We'll see what others say I guess. Stuff. -- [[Blaque]]

The lunars have 2 soak for 1 in their first charm I think. I don't think that comparisons with Glorious Solar Plate is applicable, since it only takes one turn to activate it, whereas DoOM and ISC takes two. As we all know, time to power up is critical in combat. Furthermore, the notion that GSP can be penetrated is a rare occasion, just as rare as aggravated damage. On sidenotes, compare with some defensive MA charms that increase bashing soak. My guideline here is to let a specialized charm be better than general charms. A Solar should not be a better soaker with MA than with Resistance. [[Clebo]]

I agree about the MA vs. Resistance problem, but I think the problem is on the MA side. I think 1m/1BSoak is about right. --Toram

I haven't seen the dice rolling become a problem in actual play, and I think the power level of the official Charm is about right. --MetalFatigue

Even if the rolling isn't a problem, I'm just about always all-for simplicity. The less rolling the better is a general tenet of mine.\\
~*~[[Braydz]]~*~

Ok, I forgot that the Charm is scene long. For a scene long Charm, 1 more for 2 soak does seem a bit much. So I've changed my vote. ^_^ -- BrokenShade

I as well am changing my vote. Blame the hypnotoad. - SilverMeerKat

Eliminating the randomness lets a solar bring this charm to full power in just one turn. Wich i thing is just due. The cost of 1 mote per bashing soak is just like 1 mote per 2 dice rolled, so i'll go for it. - Domon

I think the problem lies in the combination with Iron Skin Concentration, and the comparison with Lunar soak. Certainly, I'll allow Lunars to be better than Solars in many things. However, I don't think straight up soaking is one of them. I have difficulties in thinking that because the Lunars are so diverse. I can see a turtle Lunar having serious soak for less cost, but I don't like the fact that a ferret Lunar can buy better soak than a Solar.. Cost effectiveness is very important in Exalted, and a Lunar MAist with one other charm could much more soak for less cost. This becomes even worse if Iron Skin costs a willpower. Therefore, I think 2 for 1, equal to Lunar charm, is the appropriate cost for Durability of Oak Meditation. However, if one feels that soaking is one of the Lunar in-theme-strengths compared to Solars, then the cost should be 1 for 1. -[[Clebo]]

Maybe keeping it 1 to 1 but halving the cost of the next charm would work? - Domon

← Older revision	Revision as of 01:15, 6 April 2010
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← Older revision	Revision as of 00:35, 6 April 2010
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← Older revision	Revision as of 08:06, 5 April 2010
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@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 ===== Vote Tally =====
 == Official Version ==
-#CrownedSun
+#[[CrownedSun]]
-#MetalFatigue
+#[[MetalFatigue]]
 == [[Clebo]]'s Version ==
@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 #[[Blaque]]
 #[[Braydz]]
-#BrokenShade
+#[[BrokenShade]]
 #[[Morpheus]]
-#SilverMeerKat
+#[[SilverMeerKat]]
 #Domon
 ===== Comments =====
-The 1 for 2 is too cheap. Sure, Golden Essence Block gives you two dice for one mote, but you're only likely to get one success from it. If Durability of Oak Meditation gives you 2 points of soak for each mote, it's about twice as effective. I like the randomness of the canon charm,  but doing away with excess dice rolling is a fine and noble ambition. -- OnyxChasm
+The 1 for 2 is too cheap. Sure, Golden Essence Block gives you two dice for one mote, but you're only likely to get one success from it. If Durability of Oak Meditation gives you 2 points of soak for each mote, it's about twice as effective. I like the randomness of the canon charm,  but doing away with excess dice rolling is a fine and noble ambition. -- [[OnyxChasm]]
 I also think 1 for 2 is a bit cheap to be honest.  1 for 1 is probably more reasonable.  It balances with the fact that Iron Skin Concentration will make that all extra lethal soak.  So for eight motes, you suddenly have an additional ten lethal soak, which doesn't sit well for me to be hoenst.  It surpasses Glorious Solar Plate quick IMHO.  1 for 1 also makes it about the same cost of the equivalent Abyssal Charms, which cost health levels and give armro, which is penetrable.  Durability of Oak's advantage would be it doesn't cost health, and doesn't count as armor against Charmst hat effect such, at the price of being useless against aggravated damage.
@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 Or something.  I'm sorta torn on this really.  We'll see what others say I guess.  Stuff. -- [[Blaque]]
-The lunars have 2 soak for 1 in their first charm I think. I don't think that comparisons with Glorious Solar Plate is applicable, since it only takes one turn to activate it, whereas DoOM and ISC takes two. As we all know, time to power up is critical in combat. Furthermore, the notion that GSP can be penetrated is a rare occasion, just as rare as aggravated damage. On sidenotes, compare with some defensive MA charms that increase bashing soak. My guideline here is to let a specialized charm be better than general charms. A Solar should not be a better soaker with MA than with Resistance. [[Clebo]]
+The lunars have 2 soak for 1 in their first charm I think. I don't think that comparisons with Glorious Solar Plate is applicable, since it only takes one turn to activate it, whereas [[DoOM]] and ISC takes two. As we all know, time to power up is critical in combat. Furthermore, the notion that GSP can be penetrated is a rare occasion, just as rare as aggravated damage. On sidenotes, compare with some defensive MA charms that increase bashing soak. My guideline here is to let a specialized charm be better than general charms. A Solar should not be a better soaker with MA than with Resistance. [[Clebo]]
 I agree about the MA vs. Resistance problem, but I think the problem is on the MA side.  I think 1m/1BSoak is about right.  --Toram
-I haven't seen the dice rolling become a problem in actual play, and I think the power level of the official Charm is about right. --MetalFatigue
+I haven't seen the dice rolling become a problem in actual play, and I think the power level of the official Charm is about right. --[[MetalFatigue]]
 Even if the rolling isn't a problem, I'm just about always all-for simplicity. The less rolling the better is a general tenet of mine.\\
 ~*~[[Braydz]]~*~
-Ok, I forgot that the Charm is scene long. For a scene long Charm, 1 more for 2 soak does seem a bit much. So I've changed my vote. ^_^ -- BrokenShade
+Ok, I forgot that the Charm is scene long. For a scene long Charm, 1 more for 2 soak does seem a bit much. So I've changed my vote. ^_^ -- [[BrokenShade]]
-I as well am changing my vote. Blame the hypnotoad. - SilverMeerKat
+I as well am changing my vote. Blame the hypnotoad. - [[SilverMeerKat]]
 Eliminating the randomness lets a solar bring this charm to full power in just one turn. Wich i thing is just due. The cost of 1 mote per bashing soak is just like 1 mote per 2 dice rolled, so i'll go for it. - Domon