FixTheLunarCharmTrees/RegainingBreathExercise - Revision history

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BrokenShade: *

2004-10-22T11:26:47Z

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== Official Charm ==
Regaining Breath Exercise
Cost: 1 Willpower
Duration: Instant
Type: Simple
Minimum Intelligiance: 4
Minimum Essence: 3
Prerequisite Charms: Crouching Tiger Exercise, Moonsilver Monkey Exercise
The Lunar spends a willpower and meditates for a number of turns equal to the 20, minus the Lunar's Stamina. The character then rolls Stamina + Endurance. Each success restores two motes, but no more motes can be gained through this then the Lunar's (Permanent Essence x 2).

== [[Blaque]]'s Version ==
Each success gives the Lunar his Permanent Essence in motes back. The Lunar can gain no more sucesses using this Charm then his Stamina.

== BrokenShade's Version ==
The Charm is now Reflexive, and you regain (Stamina + Endurance) motes. It can be used at most once a turn.

===== Vote Tally =====
== Official Version ==
#[[Quendalon]]

== [[Blaque]]'s Version ==
#[[Blaque]]

== BrokenShade's Version ==
BrokenShade

===== Comments =====
I think that right now, this Charm is woefully bad for something of its prerequisites. All other sorts fo Exalted get much better Essence regain at lower levels. This Charm, as written officially, is woefully underpowered compared ot the Sidereal Virtue-based regeners, and the Soalr Charm Essence-Gathering Temper, especially with the Power Combat update.

Stuff. [[Blaque]]

Since a turn is three seconds long, this Charm always takes less than a minute to take effect. Generally, you'll be able to refill your pool in about ten minutes of meditation, which seems pretty strong to me. - [[Quendalon]]

Though I normally don't like to compare Celestial charms to DB charms, I think a look at Elemental Empowerment Meditation is in order. It requires one turn and gives you back 4-5 motes per use. It's got stricter limits on use, including a note that it can't be used more often than one's Essence per day and a few other notes. 
Compared to that, this Lunar charm has VERY similar requirements (it requires /one/ more charm). It requires a LOT more time, requires you to have a high Stamina + Endurance (unrelated to the prereqs) for it to be worthwhile, and regains a maximum (at purchase) of 6 motes. So a celestial charm gives you about +1 mote worth of effect, takes about x15 times as long, and requires concurrent and uninterrupted concentration. Frankly, I think that's almost /pitiably/ weaker than the DB charm. 
Blaque's version allows an average twinked out maximum (at character creation) of 30 mote regain (this assumes a Stamina of 16, Endurance 4; don't forget DBT-form Blaque). A more reasonably assumption is DBT form with a Stamina of 8, Endurance of 4, for an average of for 12 motes. There's no reasonable way to exclude DBT-form, however. 
Other options that come to mind are just removing the (Essence x2) cap, and leaving the rules as they are, or lowering the time limit. Quendalon, I think your point on rapid fills is mostly aborted by the fact that it's got a Willpower cost.
-- CrownedSun

:CS, the DB version also has a Willpower cost, and half the cap. It may still need changes, but I don't think that the Willpower cost is relevant in this particular comparison. - [[Quendalon]]

::I'm aware of that -- that wasn't the point. I'm just pointing out that it's /not/ going to fill up essence pools "in ten minutes of meditation". You'd never be able to afford the willpower cost for that level of effect. So the idea that "it's not that long a period of time" isn't hugely persuasive, since it's effectively a moot point. Especially considering the DB version. Also, as I pointed out, it's not /half/ the cap. It's about +1 mote, when you get the charm. The Lunar version scales a bit more, so that when your at Essence 5 it's 10 motes instead of 5. The charm itself is only Essence 3, however, and that's about when it will be used most often. This tiny tiny advantage is not worth all the other drawbacks. - CrownedSun

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 Each success gives the Lunar his Permanent Essence in motes back.  The Lunar can gain no more sucesses using this Charm then his Stamina.
-== BrokenShade's Version ==
+== [[BrokenShade]]'s Version ==
 The Charm is now Reflexive, and you regain (Stamina + Endurance) motes. It can be used at most once a turn.
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 #[[Blaque]]
-== BrokenShade's Version ==
+== [[BrokenShade]]'s Version ==
-BrokenShade
+[[BrokenShade]]
 ===== Comments =====
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 Blaque's version allows an average twinked out maximum (at character creation) of 30 mote regain (this assumes a Stamina of 16, Endurance 4; don't forget DBT-form Blaque).  A more reasonably assumption is DBT form with a Stamina of 8, Endurance of 4, for an average of for 12 motes.  There's no reasonable way to exclude DBT-form, however.<br>
 Other options that come to mind are just removing the (Essence x2) cap, and leaving the rules as they are, or lowering the time limit.  Quendalon, I think your point on rapid fills is mostly aborted by the fact that it's got a Willpower cost.
--- CrownedSun
+-- [[CrownedSun]]
 :CS, the DB version also has a Willpower cost, and half the cap.  It may still need changes, but I don't think that the Willpower cost is relevant in this particular comparison. - [[Quendalon]]
-::I'm aware of that -- that wasn't the point.  I'm just pointing out that it's /not/ going to fill up essence pools "in ten minutes of meditation".  You'd never be able to afford the willpower cost for that level of effect.  So the idea that "it's not that long a period of time" isn't hugely persuasive, since it's effectively a moot point.  Especially considering the DB version.  Also, as I pointed out, it's not /half/ the cap.  It's about +1 mote, when you get the charm.  The Lunar version scales a bit more, so that when your at Essence 5 it's 10 motes instead of 5.  The charm itself is only Essence 3, however, and that's about when it will be used most often.  This tiny tiny advantage is not worth all the other drawbacks. - CrownedSun
+::I'm aware of that -- that wasn't the point.  I'm just pointing out that it's /not/ going to fill up essence pools "in ten minutes of meditation".  You'd never be able to afford the willpower cost for that level of effect.  So the idea that "it's not that long a period of time" isn't hugely persuasive, since it's effectively a moot point.  Especially considering the DB version.  Also, as I pointed out, it's not /half/ the cap.  It's about +1 mote, when you get the charm.  The Lunar version scales a bit more, so that when your at Essence 5 it's 10 motes instead of 5.  The charm itself is only Essence 3, however, and that's about when it will be used most often.  This tiny tiny advantage is not worth all the other drawbacks. - [[CrownedSun]]