FixTheLunarCharmTrees - Revision history

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Wordman: *

2008-02-15T03:24:11Z

New page

This project exists to discuss changes to the Lunar Charm trees, to correct what some players deem to be weaknesses and imbalances in the Lunar Charm set.

Here are the ground rules:
* This project is for existing Lunar Charms only.
* If you believe a particular Lunar Charm needs revising, create a subpage here under the name of that Charm.
* In that subpage, first list the current Charm and then, under your name, provide your alternative wording and mechanics.
* If you want to suggest your own alternative, you may add an alternative Charm to the page under your own name.
* At the bottom of each of these pages, you can vote on which charm version you like most, including the original.
* Please keep comments in a separate Comments section, below the Vote Tally section.
* If you don't like any of the existing Charm versions, add your own!
* For a template of how this works, have a look at /HideOfTheCunningHunter.

= Lunar Charms =

== Body Enhancement ==
* /BreathDrinkingExecutionerAttack
*/CrouchingTigerExercise
*/MoonsilverMonkeyExercise
* /RegainingBreathExercise
* /ToolHandTechnique

== Defensive ==
* /FlowingBodyEvasion
* /SteelPawStyle
* /FelineGuardTechnique

== Interaction and Knowledge ==

== Melee Combat ==

* /FerociousAvalancheTechnique

== Perception ==

== Ranged Combat ==
* /TwoTargetMethod

== Shapechanging ==
* /HideOfTheCunningHunter
* /MaskingTheBrilliantForm
* /PreysSkinDisguise
* /ManyFacedMoonTransformation
* /ShapingTheIdealForm

== Sorcery ==

== Spirit ==

== Stealth ==

== Survival and Healing ==

== Unarmed Combat ==
* /BodyWeaponTechnique
* /BullHeadTechnique
* /CoiledCobraStance
* /SinuousStrikingGrace

===== Comments =====
Oh no. I'm doomed *watches shreds of former social life flee screaming*. My only question would be, what if we want to significantly rework the trees as well as then Charms? Should we just make specific links from the appropriate sections of this page? - [[SMK]]

I'd suggest reworked charm trees be done as whole subpages off this one, if you want them to be voted, but I'd really rather avoid that. When you get to actually changing entire /trees/, you might as well throw out the entire charm set and start over. Plus, it changes Lunars so much to fiddle with their tree structure that I'd consider it a bad idea except in moderation. -- CrownedSun

:Interesting. So you think the Lunar trees make sense as they are? I'd be very much interested in hearing how - and I don't mean that in an "oh-yeah-well-why-don't-you-prove-it" sort of way, I mean it in an "oh-wow-cool-please-show-me" sort of way. I mean (and this is just my interpretation), right now it seems that Lunars are just doomed not to advance competitively along any path, with their staggeringly inflated Charm costs and their barely-noticeable Caste Attribute deduction (on Attributes, not Charms) combined with their speedbump-riddled Charm trees - how was a Full Moon ever supposed to stand up to a Dawn Caste on the battlefield? Maybe I just have a skewed vision of how Lunars are supposed to work, but I always thought they were supposed to be the equals of the Dawn Caste on the battlefield (assuming a totally combat-focused Full Moon and a totally combat-focused Dawn), and I was under the impression that that was basically the only thing they were mechanically as good as anyone else at (besides DBs, who get eaten). Maybe I'm wrong. But I see what you're saying about reworking the whole trees. I'll let this ferment a bit until I can get my E:tL back at least. - [[SMK]]

::I thought so too (about Full Moon competitiveness), but various comments by Exalted writers on RPG.net suggest that either this was never the case, or they changed their minds somewhere along the line. In any case, it seems set in stone that canonical Lunars are inferior to Solars in everything except shapeshifting. I'm not too happy with that, mind you, but that's the sort of thing that this project should be good for. ;) Anyway, I think that fixing individual Charms should take precedence over Charm tree restructuring; it seems more relevant. - [[Quendalon]]

:::So you're saying... *fanfare* we have a mission? - [[SMK]], grinnin' like a fool.

::I wouldn't say that I think the Lunar trees make sense as they are -- more, I think that they're /purposely/ balanced the way they are, and too many overarching changes can ruin that balance. Lots of people lower the XP cost, which has a small but not huge effect. However, changing the charm structure will have a HUGE effect, and really -- it's a quite impressive one. My point is more "the Lunars /are/ this way, changing them is a project better aimed at making what they have work than trying to make an entirely different method", as opposed to "I have no problems with the way lunar's work. - CrownedSun

:::Aha. That makes a lot of sense, and I can definitely see how it would have a huge impact on Lunars' overall effectiveness to make even a few seemingly minor changes to their Charmtree structure. And I like the idea, I suppose, of trying to make Lunars work as they are rather than trying to rework them completely. - [[SMK]]

Charms that are often the brunt of discussion:
*Spinning Blade Attack
*Lightning Sword Method
*Two-Target Method
*Flowing Body Evasion
Feel free to make a page for one of these suckers and cut loose. - [[Quendalon]]

Some general things I think is the Extra Action Charms need to drop the whole "This restriction AND the Lunar's Initiative they acted on, divided by 3." I think that's a bit arbitary and cripples Lunar Charms when compared to really every other sort of Exalted out there. Just a though.

And for easiness' sake, and my wrists, I will just link to my Lunar HR thing, which I did a lot of the above stuff. Saves me a lot of retyping too.

[[Blaque/LunarHouserules]]

Stuff. [[Blaque]]

:No one says you have to retype them all at once, but they don't do much all sitting by themselves on that page, do they? Port them over here at a rate of one a day, and we'll have them all up for debate in no time! - [[Quendalon]]

[[SMK]], I've been working on the lunar trees forever. They need tons of work, as you know. We should put our heads together. And anyone else interested in such a project can put a comment on my lunar charms page at 
[[Morpheus/LunarCharmsForMe]]. - [[Morpheus]]

:Hi Morpheus! This project is explicitly a collaborative space, and I encourage you to start posting your specific Charm modifications here for everyone to work on/around/with. - [[Quendalon]]

Most of it's already in my own little format, and I'm not really willing to screw around with it. I can post the specific charm changes here, but it wouldn't make much sense. So, I'll put a link here, so that you all can see what I mean. Comments are more than welcome, and if you want to take some of the changes you see and put them into this area's format, be my guest. - [[Morpheus]]

:I'll back [[Morpheus]] up here at least a little - most of his modifications are of the "reorder the whole damn failed tree" variety, and don't really fit with this format. I'd encourage him, though, perhaps *hopeful glance at [[Morpheus]]* to try it this way for a Charm or two. The trees don't really have to be completely reworked, except for the main Perception tree, and the only reworking that really needs is to reset the "prerequisiste Charms" line to "none" on a few of the Charms (which I see as a viable one-Charm-at-a-time type of change anyway). - [[SMK]]

I'd love to! But I lost my Lunar book, and the notebook I used for my charm modifications was tucked inside. It was too much work to redo. When/if I find it, I'll start working on Lunar Charms again. Right now I'm restarting work on redoing the 5 Elemental Dragon Styles, completely redesigning spirits, creating new combat maneuvers, redesigning speed and rate, plotting for Taina, and GMing 7th Sea. But I'll surely add one more to the list when I find my notebook. - [[Morpheus]]

:Lol, sounds like a pretty full schedule. Y'know, I still have the back cover to your Lunar book, if it makes you feel better to know it's not all lost =P - [[SMK]]

::Yea! - [[Morpheus]]

Should we really be providing near-full write-ups of the charms we're writing? Especially the stat-block. It's not hugely necessary for changes, and it just wastes a lot of space. I'd personally find a short description of the original and a page number more useful. Also, while it probably falls under fair use, I just don't think it's /necessary/. -- CrownedSun

Arafelis: *

2005-04-08T14:50:32Z

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 * Please keep comments in a separate Comments section, below the Vote Tally section.
 * If you don't like any of the existing Charm versions, add your own!
-* For a template of how this works, have a look at [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/HideOfTheCunningHunter]].
+* For a template of how this works, have a look at[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/HideOfTheCunningHunter]].
 = Lunar Charms =
 == Body Enhancement ==
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/BreathDrinkingExecutionerAttack]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/BreathDrinkingExecutionerAttack]]
-*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/CrouchingTigerExercise]]
+[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/CrouchingTigerExercise]]
-*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/MoonsilverMonkeyExercise]]
+[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/MoonsilverMonkeyExercise]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/RegainingBreathExercise]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/RegainingBreathExercise]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/ToolHandTechnique]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/ToolHandTechnique]]
 == Defensive ==
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/FlowingBodyEvasion]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/FlowingBodyEvasion]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/SteelPawStyle]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/SteelPawStyle]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/FelineGuardTechnique]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/FelineGuardTechnique]]
 == Interaction and Knowledge ==
@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 == Melee Combat ==
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/FerociousAvalancheTechnique]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/FerociousAvalancheTechnique]]
 == Perception ==
 == Ranged Combat ==
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/TwoTargetMethod]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/TwoTargetMethod]]
 == Shapechanging ==
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/HideOfTheCunningHunter]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/HideOfTheCunningHunter]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/MaskingTheBrilliantForm]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/MaskingTheBrilliantForm]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/PreysSkinDisguise]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/PreysSkinDisguise]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/ManyFacedMoonTransformation]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/ManyFacedMoonTransformation]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/ShapingTheIdealForm]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/ShapingTheIdealForm]]
 == Sorcery ==
@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 == Unarmed Combat ==
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/BodyWeaponTechnique]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/BodyWeaponTechnique]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/BullHeadTechnique]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/BullHeadTechnique]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/CoiledCobraStance]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/CoiledCobraStance]]
-* [[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/SinuousStrikingGrace]]
+*[[FixTheLunarCharmTrees/SinuousStrikingGrace]]
 ===== Comments =====

← Older revision	Revision as of 01:15, 6 April 2010
(No difference)

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 * Please keep comments in a separate Comments section, below the Vote Tally section.
 * If you don't like any of the existing Charm versions, add your own!
-* For a template of how this works, have a look at /HideOfTheCunningHunter.
+* For a template of how this works, have a look at [[/HideOfTheCunningHunter]].
 = Lunar Charms =
 == Body Enhancement ==
-* /BreathDrinkingExecutionerAttack
+* [[/BreathDrinkingExecutionerAttack]]
-*/CrouchingTigerExercise
+*[[/CrouchingTigerExercise]]
-*/MoonsilverMonkeyExercise
+*[[/MoonsilverMonkeyExercise]]
-* /RegainingBreathExercise
+* [[/RegainingBreathExercise]]
-* /ToolHandTechnique
+* [[/ToolHandTechnique]]
 == Defensive ==
-* /FlowingBodyEvasion
+* [[/FlowingBodyEvasion]]
-* /SteelPawStyle
+* [[/SteelPawStyle]]
-* /FelineGuardTechnique
+* [[/FelineGuardTechnique]]
 == Interaction and Knowledge ==
@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 == Melee Combat ==
-* /FerociousAvalancheTechnique
+* [[/FerociousAvalancheTechnique]]
 == Perception ==
 == Ranged Combat ==
-* /TwoTargetMethod
+* [[/TwoTargetMethod]]
 == Shapechanging ==
-* /HideOfTheCunningHunter
+* [[/HideOfTheCunningHunter]]
-* /MaskingTheBrilliantForm
+* [[/MaskingTheBrilliantForm]]
-* /PreysSkinDisguise
+* [[/PreysSkinDisguise]]
-* /ManyFacedMoonTransformation
+* [[/ManyFacedMoonTransformation]]
-* /ShapingTheIdealForm
+* [[/ShapingTheIdealForm]]
 == Sorcery ==
@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 == Unarmed Combat ==
-* /BodyWeaponTechnique
+* [[/BodyWeaponTechnique]]
-* /BullHeadTechnique
+* [[/BullHeadTechnique]]
-* /CoiledCobraStance
+* [[/CoiledCobraStance]]
-* /SinuousStrikingGrace
+* [[/SinuousStrikingGrace]]
 ===== Comments =====
 Oh no. I'm doomed *watches shreds of former social life flee screaming*. My only question would be, what if we want to significantly rework the <i>trees</i> as well as then Charms? Should we just make specific links from the appropriate sections of this page? - [[SMK]]
-I'd suggest reworked charm trees be done as whole subpages off this one, if you want them to be voted, but I'd really rather avoid that.  When you get to actually changing entire /trees/, you might as well throw out the entire charm set and start over.  Plus, it changes Lunars so much to fiddle with their tree structure that I'd consider it a bad idea except in moderation. -- CrownedSun
+I'd suggest reworked charm trees be done as whole subpages off this one, if you want them to be voted, but I'd really rather avoid that.  When you get to actually changing entire /trees/, you might as well throw out the entire charm set and start over.  Plus, it changes Lunars so much to fiddle with their tree structure that I'd consider it a bad idea except in moderation. -- [[CrownedSun]]
 :Interesting. So you think the Lunar trees make sense as they are? I'd be very much interested in hearing how - and I don't mean that in an "oh-yeah-well-why-don't-you-prove-it" sort of way, I mean it in an "oh-wow-cool-please-show-me" sort of way. I mean (and this is just my interpretation), right now it seems that Lunars are just doomed not to advance competitively along <i>any</i> path, with their staggeringly inflated Charm costs and their barely-noticeable Caste Attribute deduction (on Attributes, not Charms) combined with their speedbump-riddled Charm trees - how was a Full Moon ever supposed to stand up to a Dawn Caste on the battlefield? Maybe I just have a skewed vision of how Lunars are supposed to work, but I always thought they were supposed to be the equals of the Dawn Caste on the battlefield (assuming a totally combat-focused Full Moon and a totally combat-focused Dawn), and I was under the impression that that was basically the only thing they were <i>mechanically</i> as good as anyone else at (besides DBs, who get eaten). Maybe I'm wrong. But I see what you're saying about reworking the whole trees. I'll let this ferment a bit until I can get my E:tL back at least. - [[SMK]]
@@ Line 68: / Line 68: @@
 :::So you're saying... *fanfare* we have a mission? - [[SMK]], <i>grinnin' like a fool</i>.
-::I wouldn't say that I think the Lunar trees make sense as they are -- more, I think that they're /purposely/ balanced the way they are, and too many overarching changes can ruin that balance.  Lots of people lower the XP cost, which has a small but not huge effect.  However, changing the charm structure will have a HUGE effect, and really -- it's a quite impressive one.  My point is more "the Lunars /are/ this way, changing them is a project better aimed at making what they have work than trying to make an entirely different method", as opposed to "I have no problems with the way lunar's work.  - CrownedSun
+::I wouldn't say that I think the Lunar trees make sense as they are -- more, I think that they're /purposely/ balanced the way they are, and too many overarching changes can ruin that balance.  Lots of people lower the XP cost, which has a small but not huge effect.  However, changing the charm structure will have a HUGE effect, and really -- it's a quite impressive one.  My point is more "the Lunars /are/ this way, changing them is a project better aimed at making what they have work than trying to make an entirely different method", as opposed to "I have no problems with the way lunar's work.  - [[CrownedSun]]
 :::Aha. That makes a lot of sense, and I can definitely see how it would have a huge impact on Lunars' overall effectiveness to make even a few seemingly minor changes to their Charmtree structure. And I like the idea, I suppose, of trying to make Lunars work as they are rather than trying to rework them completely. - [[SMK]]
@@ Line 104: / Line 104: @@
 ::Yea! - [[Morpheus]]
-Should we really be providing near-full write-ups of the charms we're writing?  Especially the stat-block.  It's not hugely necessary for changes, and it just wastes a lot of space.  I'd personally find a short description of the original and a page number more useful.  Also, while it probably falls under fair use, I just don't think it's /necessary/.  -- CrownedSun
+Should we really be providing near-full write-ups of the charms we're writing?  Especially the stat-block.  It's not hugely necessary for changes, and it just wastes a lot of space.  I'd personally find a short description of the original and a page number more useful.  Also, while it probably falls under fair use, I just don't think it's /necessary/.  -- [[CrownedSun]]