Discussions/StoneOfBloodToFire - Revision history

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Darloth: bah, forgot my name

2004-05-14T00:44:47Z

bah, forgot my name

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Stone of Blood to Fire (level 4 Fire manse)

the fire created by this hearthstone (Bo3C p117) does 2 lethal per turn according to the text. Does this mean there is no soak and its just automatic damage? - [[Malikai]]

Any Ideas? - [[Malikai]]

I would assume that it means two dice of lethal damage; if it said levels it would mean levels. If it says neither, take the less exotic interpretation. - w

It does say levels. "The fire does two health levels of damage per turn until it is put out." It's pretty unequivocal, if horrifying :)\\
~ [[Shataina]]

Is there no Soak or Defense? Of course Armor shouldn't apply but what about stamina?- [[Malikai]]

Since it doesn't say, I guess it's up to you. I think normally when it doesn't say specifically that it's unsoakable, then it's supposed to be soakable by Stamina, but I'm not an expert or anything.\\
~ [[Shataina]]

My understanding of the Stone of Blood to Fire is that you just eat the damage levels, since characters don't soak damage levels they soak (dice of raw) damage. Granted, the terminology in BoTC is often confusing and, like many of the other earlier books in the line, the writers didn't seem to be fully fluent in with the rules in a few spots. In my games I just say it does 2L damage, only soakable with Stamina. Which, come to think of it, is way too weak for a level 4 Hearthstone. - [[redconsensus]]

How would you suggest re-writing it? - [[Malikai]]

I don't believe it needs rewriting. Look up how fire damage is dealt with in the core. As far as I know, those are health levels, but can be reduced by successes on a resistance roll or something similar? ^_^ -- BrokenShade

Not powerful enough? It does 2 health levels of lethal damage to a target, per turn, and all you have to do is look at them! Granted, they have to be wounded -- or have just fought someone else and had their opponent's blood splashed on them (easy enough in melee combat). Also, I think that the reduction of health levels from fire only applies to non-magical / environmental fire, not superheated badass Hearthstone fire. And even if you play that the damage can be reduced by innate soak, it's still doing a health level of damage every turn as long as the bearer is within sight, and considering that it sets everything flammable that it touches on fire, it's pretty hard to put it out. You could kill someone with that Hearthstone ... by looking at them. Even if they're a Celestial Lion with 30 lethal soak, you're still doing 2 HL a turn (or 1, but any is pretty good against a Celestial Lion.) Anything that can let you kill someone by looking at them should definitely be a level 4, if you ask me.\\
~ [[Shataina]]

Thats interesting, Shataina. Personally I would think that the fire would be treated like normal fire ... the source is magic, but it is fire, and I can't recall reading anything saying there is a type of fire that you can't resist? An effect that causes damage without either attacking or allowing some kind of resistance or soak seems a little too powerful, to me. ^_^ -- BrokenShade

:I haven't read the fire rules for a while, and I don't have the book, but I recall getting the strong impression that the fire damage you could reduce was just, you know, fire. Whereas that Hearthstone's fire, for one thing, sets everything it touches on fire (as long as it's flammable), which is a bit better than normal fire. From this I extrapolate that it's superheated and badass and therefore that the normal rules don't apply, but that could just be my reading, and probably is.\\
~ [[Shataina]]

I agree with the opinion Ikselam stated in the forum: The stone should be rewritten as true environmental damage, meaning that it does Health Levels of damage, not dice, but those levels can be reduced by a Resistance roll. I'm not sure if soak applies; again I would follow the model of real env. danage. - [[willows]]

I think treating the fire as a bofire from the corebook (6L or 2L with a successful Stamina + Resistance check) might be reasonable. I don't have my books with me, so I'm not sure what the duration of the fire as written in BoTC is though. - [[redconsensus]]

What is the difficulty on the Stamina + Resistance roll? - [[Malikai]]

I believe that it's a 3, but I'm going on memory here. At anyrate, I think that damage at that difficulty is pretty solid for an atatck that costs you nothing. - [[redconsensus]]

Back at my book now and you are correct. 3 successes, 2L if pass, 6L if fail. Enviromental damage is not soaked or rolled, simply applied. - [[Malikai]]

Just applied? Really? I was not aware of that. Well, then my version is even nastier than the original write up. Back to the drawing board I guess. - [[redconsensus]]

How about no roll or soak or anything, just apply the 2L - [[Malikai]]

That's what the stone does according to BoTC. Which I find to be a bit rough, since it will basically put anyone without Ox body out of a fight in 3 turns (which is how long the effect lasts). I suppose it is a level 4 Hearthstone, but still seemd kind of harsh. - [[redconsensus]]

Environmental damage is not rolled, but it is soaked. In fact, it can be soaked down to zero. It just ignores armor soak.\\
I'd be uncomfortable with rating damage from burning (spilled) blood as equivalent to that of actually being in a bonfire. I'd have to think about it some to state with certainty what I think the parameters of the stone's environmental effect should be; one thing to keep in mind, though, is that mortals automatically fail the Resistance check, and can't soak the resulting damage (since mortals don't soak lethal with Stamina). \\
_[[Ikselam]]

Page 244 in the core book is the reference I am working from. I interpreted it to mean that Exalted get to roll Stamina + Resistance and mortals don't. It also says to treat the Damage levels like poison, which can't be soaked at all. - [[Malikai]]

I checked up page 244 (thank you for the reference [[Malikai]]! ^_^) and it says that an Exalted first gets to roll Stamina + Resistance to reduce the effect to the lower level (just as with poison), AND then, after that, the result is reduced by Stamina (unlike poison). It even talks about Exalts with sufficient Stamina ignoring such effects totally. ^_^ - BrokenShade

A concrete reason to have really nice stamina then. Sort of on the subject, can I ask here about whether poison dice-pool penalties are applied if you succeed the roll? The book is a little vague. (More importantly, will I get an answer... and if anyone thinks I should move it somewhere else, either tell me or just go ahead and do it.)\\
-- [[Darloth]]

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 Stone of Blood to Fire (level 4 Fire manse)
-the fire created by this hearthstone (Bo3C p117) does 2 lethal per turn according to the text.  Does this mean there is no soak and its just automatic damage? - [[Malikai]]
+the fire created by this hearthstone ([[Bo3C]] p117) does 2 lethal per turn according to the text.  Does this mean there is no soak and its just automatic damage? - [[Malikai]]
 Any Ideas? - [[Malikai]]
@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 ~ [[Shataina]]
-My understanding of the Stone of Blood to Fire is that you just eat the damage levels, since characters don't soak damage levels they soak (dice of raw) damage.  Granted, the terminology in BoTC is often confusing and, like many of the other earlier books in the line, the writers didn't seem to be fully fluent in with the rules in a few spots.  In my games I just say it does 2L damage, only soakable with Stamina.  Which, come to think of it, is way too weak for a level 4 Hearthstone. - [[redconsensus]]
+My understanding of the Stone of Blood to Fire is that you just eat the damage levels, since characters don't soak damage levels they soak (dice of raw) damage.  Granted, the terminology in [[BoTC]] is often confusing and, like many of the other earlier books in the line, the writers didn't seem to be fully fluent in with the rules in a few spots.  In my games I just say it does 2L damage, only soakable with Stamina.  Which, come to think of it, is way too weak for a level 4 Hearthstone. - [[redconsensus]]
 How would you suggest re-writing it? - [[Malikai]]
-I don't believe it needs rewriting. Look up how fire damage is dealt with in the core. As far as I know, those are health levels, but can be reduced by successes on a resistance roll or something similar? ^_^ -- BrokenShade
+I don't believe it needs rewriting. Look up how fire damage is dealt with in the core. As far as I know, those are health levels, but can be reduced by successes on a resistance roll or something similar? ^_^ -- [[BrokenShade]]
 Not powerful enough?  It does 2 <b>health levels</b> of lethal damage to a target, per turn, and all you have to do is <b>look</b> at them!  Granted, they have to be wounded -- or have just fought someone <b>else</b> and had their opponent's blood splashed on them (easy enough in melee combat).  Also, I think that the reduction of health levels from fire only applies to non-magical / environmental fire, not superheated badass Hearthstone fire.  And even if you play that the damage can be reduced by innate soak, it's still doing a health level of damage every turn as long as the bearer is within sight, and considering that it sets everything flammable that it touches on fire, it's pretty hard to put it out.  You could kill someone with that Hearthstone ... by <b>looking</b> at them.  Even if they're a Celestial Lion with 30 lethal soak, you're still doing 2 HL a turn (or 1, but <b>any</b> is pretty good against a Celestial Lion.)  Anything that can let you kill someone by looking at them should definitely be a level 4, if you ask me.\\
 ~ [[Shataina]]
-Thats interesting, Shataina. Personally I would think that the fire would be treated like normal fire ... the source is magic, but it is fire, and I can't recall reading anything saying there is a type of fire that you can't resist? An effect that causes damage without either attacking or allowing some kind of resistance or soak seems a little too powerful, to me. ^_^ -- BrokenShade
+Thats interesting, Shataina. Personally I would think that the fire would be treated like normal fire ... the source is magic, but it is fire, and I can't recall reading anything saying there is a type of fire that you can't resist? An effect that causes damage without either attacking or allowing some kind of resistance or soak seems a little too powerful, to me. ^_^ -- [[BrokenShade]]
 :I haven't read the fire rules for a while, and I don't have the book, but I recall getting the strong impression that the fire damage you could reduce was just, you know, fire.  Whereas that Hearthstone's fire, for one thing, sets everything it touches on fire (as long as it's flammable), which is a bit better than normal fire.  From this I extrapolate that it's superheated and badass and therefore that the normal rules don't apply, but that could just be my reading, and probably is.\\
@@ Line 33: / Line 33: @@
 I agree with the opinion Ikselam stated in the forum: The stone should be rewritten as true environmental damage, meaning that it does Health Levels of damage, not dice, but those levels can be reduced by a Resistance roll. I'm not sure if soak applies; again I would follow the model of real env. danage. - [[willows]]
-I think treating the fire as a bofire from the corebook (6L or 2L with a successful Stamina + Resistance check) might be reasonable.  I don't have my books with me, so I'm not sure what the duration of the fire as written in BoTC is though.   - [[redconsensus]]
+I think treating the fire as a bofire from the corebook (6L or 2L with a successful Stamina + Resistance check) might be reasonable.  I don't have my books with me, so I'm not sure what the duration of the fire as written in [[BoTC]] is though.   - [[redconsensus]]
 What is the difficulty on the Stamina + Resistance roll? - [[Malikai]]
@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 How about no roll or soak or anything, just apply the 2L - [[Malikai]]
-That's what the stone does according to BoTC.  Which I find to be a bit rough, since it will basically put anyone without Ox body out of a fight in 3 turns (which is how long the effect lasts).  I suppose it is a level 4 Hearthstone, but still seemd kind of harsh. - [[redconsensus]]
+That's what the stone does according to [[BoTC]].  Which I find to be a bit rough, since it will basically put anyone without Ox body out of a fight in 3 turns (which is how long the effect lasts).  I suppose it is a level 4 Hearthstone, but still seemd kind of harsh. - [[redconsensus]]
 Environmental damage is not rolled, but it <i>is</i> soaked. In fact, it can be soaked down to zero. It just ignores armor soak.\\
@@ Line 53: / Line 53: @@
 Page 244 in the core book is the reference I am working from.  I interpreted it to mean that Exalted get to roll Stamina + Resistance and mortals don't.  It also says to treat the Damage levels like poison, which can't be soaked at all. - [[Malikai]]
-I checked up page 244 (thank you for the reference [[Malikai]]! ^_^) and it says that an Exalted first gets to roll Stamina + Resistance to reduce the effect to the lower level (just as with poison), AND then, after that, the result is reduced by Stamina (unlike poison). It even talks about Exalts with sufficient Stamina ignoring such effects totally. ^_^ - BrokenShade
+I checked up page 244 (thank you for the reference [[Malikai]]! ^_^) and it says that an Exalted first gets to roll Stamina + Resistance to reduce the effect to the lower level (just as with poison), AND then, after that, the result is reduced by Stamina (unlike poison). It even talks about Exalts with sufficient Stamina ignoring such effects totally. ^_^ - [[BrokenShade]]
 A concrete reason to have really nice stamina then. Sort of on the subject, can I ask here about whether poison dice-pool penalties are applied if you succeed the roll? The book is a little vague. (More importantly, will I get an answer... and if anyone thinks I should move it somewhere else, either tell me or just go ahead and do it.)\\
   -- [[Darloth]]