Discussions/RelativeSolarPower - Revision history

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== Solar Power ^_^ as compared to that of Other Exalts ==
Mailanka - 09/17/2003 07:33:59

<<See, this is the kind of thing that makes me think Solars
need to be re-worked. I think there's been a bit more
power-creep than GCG et al. initially expected with the
release of each fatsplat (except, debatably, Lunars and
Abyssals, for different reasons), and now the Solars aren't
really all that impressive anymore - they're just kinda...
generic.>>

Right, lets take this one point at a time...

Power Creep? You're basically saying that DBs are
overpowered, as Lunars and Abyssals aren't creeping on the
Solars. Fine. It's ok to think that. Alot of people do.
But if you're suggesting that they're MORE powerful than
Solars, I'll think you'll have a hard time making your
case...

Whether Solars are impressive or not is really up to each
individual player, I suppose. I still see them as
Impressive. You, aparantly, don't.

Let's look at a few things that make Solars unique.

First, Solars are talented Generalists. They get the MOST
favored/Caste abilities of all the Exalted. Result? They
have the easiest time buying charms from out of caste.
Further, Dragon Blooded and Lunars have limitations on
purchasing out of caste (will Siderial? Waits to be
seen). Dragon Blooded get hit with an elemental surcharge
(which doesn't seem a big deal until you have to play a
character that is hemorraghing essence every turn...) and
Lunars get hit with a +3 exp charge on all out of caste
expenses.

Not to mention the Eclipse anima ability.

Solar charms also work very differently than the Lunars and
the Dragon Blooded. DB charms are typically arranged
around "nifty tricks." In general, the most commonly used
charm is the first charm, meaning that most DBs will use
similar tricks. For example, just about all DB
melee/dodgers will have Flickering Candle and Stoking
Bonfire. The remainder of the charms that come after tend
to be rather specialized "tricks."

Further, DB charms are very different from Aspect to Aspect.

Lunars, on the other hand, are very specialized. While,
like DBs, most will have the same early charms (They have
the LEAST entry level charms of ALL the exalted), their
best tricks are farther up and require more
specialization. The result enhances their animalistic
style: like animals, most Lunars have the same basic tricks
(claws, for example) but develop different modifications
and techniques with those tools (poison, speed, bigger
claws, etc) that further define them.

Solars, by contrast, simply go "Good, better, best." Once
you have Dipping Swallow, you won't use GEB much. Once you
have Five Fold Bulwark Stance, you won't bother with
Dipping Swallow much any more. One could say that Solars
refine themselves, coming closer and closer to perfection,
with each purchase. And for those that think this was a
mistake, the well designed Abyssals follow the SAME
progressions...

Dragon Blooded Charms represent increasing flexibilty.

Lunar charms represent increasing specialization.

Solar charms represent increasing perfection, or
refinement, if you will.

Further, Solars have the CHEAPEST charm costs BY FAR. To
the point where an Eclipse learning a Lunar charm pays a
mere 1 xp more than an actual Lunar learning it out of
caste. This results in, by far, the fastest growth of the
Exalted.

And, of course, Solars are the most "human." They don't
spout flame or grow fangs. They look and FEEL human,
ESPECIALLY now, in an age where they AREN'T raised to
believe they are gods. They offer an important change to
the more exotic natures of the other Exalted. If this
human element is what you mean by "generic" then I'll shrug
at your complaint. I see this as an important element in
the game.

Are the Solars pretty unique from the rest of the Exalted?
Without a doubt. If you mean to suggest that the other
Exalted are just Solars with their power reduced and
different, nifty tricks tacked on, I'd say you're missing
the point.

If you played the game, like most of us, with Solars first,
its easy to see them as the "base" of all the exalted, and
to compare all Exalted to them, and to see them
as "generic."

But if you've been playing with OTHER Exalted for a while,
(I've been running a DB game for a year now), then Solars
start to look REALLY strange. Obscenely powerful (it's
easy to forget the ease with which Solars take down armies
until you watch a battle focused Dragon Blooded struggle
with a few extras...), burningly virtous, strangely insane,
the Solars are as different from Dragon Blooded or Lunars
as night and... well, day.

:)

Perhaps sometimes I come across as a gushing fan boy. But
I'm quite critical of roleplaying systems. Many WoD
systems do not meet my expectations, and there are a great
number of systems that I have dismissed in my years. I am
not some kid blinded by the glitter of the glorious White-
wolf as some are.

And I tell you, with full honesty, that the Exalted system
has dazzled me. Not only have the managed to make each
Exalted type VERY unique, but they've done it all with the
SAME SYSTEM. From a guy who regularly plays GURPS, color
me impressed. I KNOW how hard it is to make things feel
different while using the same basic mechanics. It's too
easy to get something like Warcraft II, where the only
difference between races is a few numbers and a couple of
abilities...

To be frank, what I really expected was that each Exalted
type would basically be like Solars with slightly different
charms, with the Solars being the toughest. I am delighted
to see that this STILL hasn't happened...

There isn't a power creep, and Exalted has stayed
remarkably true to its intentions for a game developing at
the clip that it has.

----

I agree with everything you said. :)

Except for this:

"To the point where an Eclipse learning a Lunar charm pays a mere 1 xp more than an actual Lunar learning it out of caste."

Eclipses always pay 20 xp for Lunar Charms, as they cannot ever favour the Attributes that Lunar Charms stem from.

-[[David.]]

This is a finely crafted argument, and I like it a lot. My favorite point is that about Solars being the most human. Brilliant! Of course! Animalistic Lunars, Elemental DBs, Undeadish Abyssals, and Almost-not-real Sidereal. That shit's all weird and tainted, but the Solars are... pure. Even their human fallibility is enhanced and focused on (via the Great Curse). Superb point! --UncleChu

** The group that I game with currently has a mixed Solar game (2 solar, a lunar and a sidereal) and a DB game - I run the DB game. ALL of the players agree that the difference in power level between the 2 games is huge, the general scope is massive in our Solar game, my now dead twighlight even used sorcery to destroy a shadowland while the others protected me and killed the various bad guys that the Death lord sent our way, we escaped barely alive and all of us iconic, but we were successfull. In my DB game the characters (all with reasonable exp) struggle to take down a blood ape one on one. Solars are fantastic at what they do, a dawn cast that is maxed out for combat against a similar exp opponent of another type of exalt is going to pretty much wipe the floor with them. The DB's advantages are not in personal strength of arms but in collective efforts and in the massive amount of resources available to them. Sidereals, whilst can be as hard as nails and beat a dawn cast in terms of raw skill and ability are limited by much lower essence pools and by the fact that they will face a celestial audit if they use some of their biggest charms without permission. And of course the Lunars are limited in that they can not have any real influence within civilisation, only in the countryside or with barbarian tribes, you would never see a Luna full moon fighting as a leader of a lookshy legion. [[Eldmar]]

UncleChu: *just a comment

2006-02-02T08:49:38Z

*just a comment

← Older revision	Revision as of 01:15, 6 April 2010
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@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 First, Solars are talented Generalists. They get the MOST
-favoredDiscussions/[[RelativeSolarPower/Caste]] abilities of all the Exalted. Result? They
+favored/Caste abilities of all the Exalted. Result? They
 have the easiest time buying charms from out of caste.
 Further, Dragon Blooded and Lunars have limitations on

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 First, Solars are talented Generalists. They get the MOST
-favored/Caste abilities of all the Exalted. Result? They
+favoredDiscussions/[[RelativeSolarPower/Caste]] abilities of all the Exalted. Result? They
 have the easiest time buying charms from out of caste.
 Further, Dragon Blooded and Lunars have limitations on
@@ Line 113: / Line 113: @@
 Perhaps sometimes I come across as a gushing fan boy. But
-I'm quite critical of roleplaying systems. Many WoD
+I'm quite critical of roleplaying systems. Many [[WoD]]
 systems do not meet my expectations, and there are a great
 number of systems that I have dismissed in my years. I am
@@ Line 150: / Line 150: @@
 -[[David.]]
-This is a finely crafted argument, and I like it a lot.  My favorite point is that about Solars being the most human.  Brilliant! Of course! Animalistic Lunars, Elemental DBs, Undeadish Abyssals, and Almost-not-real Sidereal.  That shit's all weird and tainted, but the Solars are... pure.  Even their human fallibility is enhanced and focused on (via the Great Curse).  Superb point! --UncleChu
+This is a finely crafted argument, and I like it a lot.  My favorite point is that about Solars being the most human.  Brilliant! Of course! Animalistic Lunars, Elemental DBs, Undeadish Abyssals, and Almost-not-real Sidereal.  That shit's all weird and tainted, but the Solars are... pure.  Even their human fallibility is enhanced and focused on (via the Great Curse).  Superb point! --[[UncleChu]]