DigSenMeleeWeapons - Revision history

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DigitalSentience: *

2005-11-17T07:12:50Z

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From DigSenPowerCombatWeapons, DigitalSentience's project to revise Power Combat's wonky weapon stats. No formulas, no guarantee of balance, but, dammit, not all weapons are created equal.

<pre>
SWORDS
Name Spd Acc Dam Def Rate Other
Short Sword +3 +1 +3L +1 3
Straight Sword +4 +3 +3L +1 3
Slashing Sword +6 +1 +4L +0 2
Chopping Sword +3 +2 +4L +0 3
Great Sword +7 +2 +6L -1 2
Hook Sword +3 +0 +3L +3 3 Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai)
Swordbreaker +4 +0 +2L +3 3 Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai)
Rapier +4 +3 +1L +0 4 Bonus to Marking attempts (see Corebook, pg. 238)

</pre>
I don't feel particularly strongly about any of these. Input is welcome; I'm basically assuming the [[PG]]'s versions of Straight, Chopping, and Slashing were an accurate comparison of the three represented sword types. I've tweaked things a bit to be in keeping with the rest of the weapon stats, but the sword stats should be the most true to the original, [[PG]]-listed stats. 
Looking at them, that means: 
A.) The chopping shord is rather short, perhaps being comparable to machetes, scimitars, or slightly longer-than-normal butterfly knives. 
B.) The slashing sword is quite long, probably being a two-handed sword like a katana, the katana's big brother the no-dachi, or a broadsword. 
C.) The straight sword is something like the jian (think GreenDestiny, from CrouchingTigerHiddenDragon) or the lighter European swords. 
Opinions on these assumptions are very welcome; Rapier, based on feedback, has had Def tuned down, on the assumption that a fencer's defensive efforts are better spent on dodging. 
A swordbreaker is a sword with a series of notches along its length, designed to catch an opponent's weapon and... break it, I guess. While it might require a certain degree of training, it certainly doesn't have the MA requirements of hook swords.

<pre>
AXES
Name Spd Acc Dam Def Rate Other
Woodsman's Axe/Hatchet +3 +1 +4L -1 3 can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons, under Axe
Battle Axe +4 +2 +7L -2 2
Great Axe +6 +2 +9L -3 1

</pre>
The Acc bonuses for the two two-handed axes come from the relative difficulty of deflecting a mighty axe-swing, and not so much from any particular precision associated with said attacks. 
The Def penalties are a reflection not only of the weapons' relative cumbersomeness, but also the lack of any surfaces well-suited to weapon-deflection. 
I think these came out rather nicely, differentiating themselves from the swords while still remaining useful and whatnot.
<pre>

KNIVES, ETC.
Name Spd Acc Dam Def Rate Other
Knife +1 +1 +2L +1 5 Can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Knife)
Khatar +3 +0 +3L +1 3 Useable with Brawl
Sai +2 +0 +1L +3 4 Useable with MA; bonus to Disarm attempts (see CB:N, pg. 76)
Wind Fire Wheel +2 +1 +1L +2 5 Useable with MA
War Fan +2 +1 +3B +2 5 Useable with MA

</pre>
Knives have a higher Rate than Fists. Yes. This is because, as I reason, it is easier to slash back and forth across someone's soft parts than it is to properly recoil and strike out with repeated punches. 
Khatars: slightly longer-reaching versions of knives. See no reason why they should have such a @$*%ing huge Defense bonus as the [[PG]] gives them, though. In fact, it should be worse than knives, because of method of utilization, except that they have those two bars that extend back on either side of the user's forearm - so, benefit of the doubt.
Wind-Fire Wheels: this is the best I could do without making them mechanically identical to sai, except without the Disarm bonus.
<pre>

BLUDGEONS
Name Spd Acc Dam Def Rate Other
Club +4 +0 +5B +0 3
Mace/Shillelagh +4 +1 +5B -1 2 P
Hammer +3 +1 +7B -2 2 P; can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Hammer)
Sledge/Tetsubo +7 +2 +9B -2 1 P
2-Handed Hammer +6 +2 +11B -3 1 P

</pre>
Damage for the Club was hard, because there aren't a lot of Bashing-damage weapons to compare it to. I decided on a compromise between [[Jaelra]]'s and the [[PG]]'s, which feels okay compared to fist and foot damage. 
The Acc bonuses for the big hammmer and sledge derive from the same logic as the battleaxe's: these weapons menace a large area, and if you're in that area, there's not a lot you can do to divert their attacks. Also, they don't require the precision of other weapons to do their damage. Consider it a small benefit to compensate for the hideous Rate. 
Hammers, I rationalize, are poorer at defense than maces and tetsubo. This is partly because I reason that a hammer will do more damage by virtue of focusing the impact into a smaller area, and tetsubo need some advantage to counteract this. But my rationalization is that a mace/tetsubo, being essentially a very heavy stick or a very heavy cylinder on a stick, can be used to parry more or less just like swords, whereas a hammer's head makes efficient parrying very difficult.
<pre>

POLEARMS
Name Spd Acc Dam Def Rate Other
MA Spear +10 +2 +3L +1 4 can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Spear)
Footman's Spear +8 +1 +5L +0 2 can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Spear)
Naginata/Kwan Dao +8 +1 +5L +0 2
Poleaxe/Halberd +8 +1 +6L -2 1 P
Trident/Tiger Fork +8 +0 +5L +1 2 Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai)
Lance (on foot) +7 -1 +3L -3 2
Lance (charging) +12 +2 +10L -3 1
Short Spear +4 +1 +4L +1 3 can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Short Spear)

</pre>
By MA spear, I mean something more like the flexible spear utilized in Chinese martial arts. It's a powerful weapon in the right hands, but it's not really rigid enough to plant one end in the ground and the other in the heart of a charging cavalry-horse. That's the "footman's spear," for lack of a better term. Spears actually used by cavalry, on the other hand, are still probably more likely to be lances. 
The naginata is a Japanese weapon that basically boils down to a slashing blade on the end of a heavy pole, frequently employed against cavalry (specifically, the horse's legs, or so I have been led to believe). The Chinese have a similar weapon called the Kwan Dao, and I'm not sure what the closest Western analogue would be, although they came out looking identical to the generic stabbing spear ("footman's spear," here). 
I'll be the first to admit I have no idea how a poleaxe is typically used. I'm basing these stats off of the assumption that they are, as the name implies, an axe on a pole. As such, they seem as though they would be rather unwieldy, but capable of impressive damage (note that it's the only weapon with Piercing Lethal damage). Insight on this matter is welcome.
<pre>

STAVES AND VARIATIONS
Name Spd Acc Dam Def Rate Other
Quarterstaff/Bo +9 +1 +8B +1 2 Useable with MA
MA Staff +7 +2 +6B +2 3 Useable with MA
Short Staff/Jo +5 +1 +4B +2 3 Useable with MA
Fighting Sticks +3 +1 +3B +3 4 Useable with MA and Brawl
Nunchaku +3 +1 +4B +1 5 Useable with MA
Seven-Section Staff +6 +1 +8B +0 3 Useable with MA

</pre>
A quarterstaff is longer and much more rigid than an "MA staff." A quarterstaff might be made out of oak or maple, where a MA staff would be made out of bamboo or variations thereon. 
Fighting sticks in this case refers to tonfa/billyclubs/nightsticks: martial arts weapons that have been adopted by modern-day law-enforcement officials. They offer a surprising number of defensive and offensive options, considering they're basically just sticks with a handle sticking out on the side. 
Nunchaku - I'm surprised the corebook/[[PG]] didn't have them, actually. They wound up looking a lot like wooden knives, stat-wise, which works for me. 
Now, I'm basing the seven-section staff stats on my own experience with flexible weapons (three-section staff, technically), and comparing them to the fighting chain (stats below) and the staff. Speed, I think, deserves to be higher than the [[PG]] stats - the weapon can threaten a surprisingly large area. Accuracy shouldn't be penalized, in my mind - the seven-section staff is probably quite adept at circumventing most defenses an opponent could throw up, and as to the difficulty of actually getting the weapon where you want it to go - well, it's more like the weapon is in so many places that one of them is bound to be the one you want. Damage was simple, balanced against the staff (and memories of whacking myself in the head with the three-section). Defense was a little trickier - there are some fancy ways to defend yourself with the staff-parts of the weapon, but they usually involve halting the spinning motions you use for attack. So, I tried to take that into account with Rate. 
'NUFF SAID!
<pre>

OTHER
Name Spd Acc Dam Def Rate Other
Whip +10 +0 +0L -3 2 Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai); stunts look cool
Fighting Chain +6 +1 +6B -1 4 Useable with Brawl or MA; Clinch enhancer
Fighting Shield +1 +1 +3B +3 2 Useable with Brawl; can be thrown, see ThrownWeapons (under Shield)

</pre>
Just for clarification, a fighting shield would not also provide the normal 'cover' bonus to it's wielder. You get one or the other, and if you choose to use your shield as a weapon, it's not being held in the optimal shield position often enough to afford you protection. However, it still has a good Defense rating, and perhaps more importantly, it just looks cool when you bash the crap outta somebody with it. 
Note that the Fighting Chain, while a decent and versatile weapon, does not do Piercing damage in a Clinch, unlike most Clinch enhancers.

=== Thoughts ===
While considering the rapier, and then the knife, I wondered whether these weapons (and perhaps others) should be less Strength-dependent. In particular, I'm wondering if making their damage equal to (Str/2) + (Dam) would be too much. Or even (Str+Dex)/2 + (Dam). And by "too much" I mean "too much of a pain in the goddamn ass to keep track of."

Alright, folks, that's DigSenMeleeWeapons finished. If you notice anything wonky in a comparison between two weapons, let me know; I've tried to compare them all to a few 'base' weapons, but there's no way I got everything. So, if something doesn't sync, I'll reexamine it.

=== Problems? Concerns? Hate what I've done? ===
Take it to DigSenPowerCombatWeapons/ThisIsAllWrong

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 AXES
 Name                      Spd     Acc    Dam    Def    Rate    Other
-Woodsman's Axe[[/Hatchet]]    +3      +1     +4L    -1      3      can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]], under Axe
+Woodsman's [[AxeDigSenMeleeWeapons/Hatchet]]    +3      +1     +4L    -1      3      can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]], under Axe
 Battle Axe                +4      +2     +7L    -2      2
 Great Axe                 +6      +2     +9L    -3      1
@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 Name                     Spd     Acc    Dam    Def    Rate    Other
 Club                     +4      +0     +5B    +0      3
-Mace[[/Shillelagh]]          +4      +1     +5B    -1      2      P
+[[MaceDigSenMeleeWeapons/Shillelagh]]          +4      +1     +5B    -1      2      P
 Hammer                   +3      +1     +7B    -2      2      P; can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]] for stats (under Hammer)
-Sledge[[/Tetsubo]]           +7      +2     +9B    -2      1      P
+[[SledgeDigSenMeleeWeapons/Tetsubo]]           +7      +2     +9B    -2      1      P
 -Handed Hammer          +6      +2     +11B   -3      1      P
@@ Line 67: / Line 67: @@
 MA Spear                  +10     +2     +3L    +1      4      can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]] for stats (under Spear)
 Footman's Spear           +8      +1     +5L    +0      2      can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]] for stats (under Spear)
-Naginata[[/Kwan]] Dao         +8      +1     +5L    +0      2
+[[NaginataDigSenMeleeWeapons/Kwan]] Dao         +8      +1     +5L    +0      2
-Poleaxe[[/Halberd]]           +8      +1     +6L    -2      1      P
+[[PoleaxeDigSenMeleeWeapons/Halberd]]           +8      +1     +6L    -2      1      P
-Trident[[/Tiger]] Fork        +8      +0     +5L    +1      2      Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai)
+[[TridentDigSenMeleeWeapons/Tiger]] Fork        +8      +0     +5L    +1      2      Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai)
 Lance (on foot)           +7      -1     +3L    -3      2
 Lance (charging)          +12     +2     +10L   -3      1
@@ Line 82: / Line 82: @@
 STAVES AND VARIATIONS
 Name                      Spd     Acc    Dam    Def    Rate    Other
-Quarterstaff[[/Bo]]           +9      +1     +8B    +1      2      Useable with MA
+[[QuarterstaffDigSenMeleeWeapons/Bo]]           +9      +1     +8B    +1      2      Useable with MA
 MA Staff                  +7      +2     +6B    +2      3      Useable with MA
-Short Staff[[/Jo]]            +5      +1     +4B    +2      3      Useable with MA
+Short [[StaffDigSenMeleeWeapons/Jo]]            +5      +1     +4B    +2      3      Useable with MA
 Fighting Sticks           +3      +1     +3B    +3      4      Useable with MA and Brawl
 Nunchaku                  +3      +1     +4B    +1      5      Useable with MA
@@ Line 113: / Line 113: @@
 === Problems?  Concerns?  Hate what I've done? ===
-Take it to [[DigSenPowerCombatWeapons/ThisIsAllWrong]]
+Take it to [[DigSenPowerCombatWeaponsDigSenMeleeWeapons/ThisIsAllWrong]]

← Older revision	Revision as of 01:15, 6 April 2010
(No difference)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-From DigSenPowerCombatWeapons, DigitalSentience's project to revise Power Combat's wonky weapon stats.  No formulas, no guarantee of balance, but, dammit, not all weapons are created equal.
+From [[DigSenPowerCombatWeapons]], [[DigitalSentience]]'s project to revise Power Combat's wonky weapon stats.  No formulas, no guarantee of balance, but, dammit, not all weapons are created equal.
 <pre>
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 A.) The chopping shord is rather short, perhaps being comparable to machetes, scimitars, or slightly longer-than-normal butterfly knives.<br>
 B.) The slashing sword is quite long, probably being a two-handed sword like a katana, the katana's big brother the no-dachi, or a broadsword.<br>
-C.) The straight sword is something like the jian (think GreenDestiny, from CrouchingTigerHiddenDragon) or the lighter European swords.<br>
+C.) The straight sword is something like the jian (think [[GreenDestiny]], from [[CrouchingTigerHiddenDragon]]) or the lighter European swords.<br>
 Opinions on these assumptions are very welcome; Rapier, based on feedback, has had Def tuned down, on the assumption that a fencer's defensive efforts are better spent on dodging.<br>
 A swordbreaker is a sword with a series of notches along its length, designed to catch an opponent's weapon and... break it, I guess.  While it might require a certain degree of training, it certainly doesn't have the MA requirements of hook swords.
@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 AXES
 Name                      Spd     Acc    Dam    Def    Rate    Other
-Woodsman's Axe/Hatchet    +3      +1     +4L    -1      3      can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons, under Axe
+Woodsman's Axe[[/Hatchet]]    +3      +1     +4L    -1      3      can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]], under Axe
 Battle Axe                +4      +2     +7L    -2      2
 Great Axe                 +6      +2     +9L    -3      1
@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 KNIVES, ETC.
 Name                    Spd     Acc    Dam    Def    Rate    Other
-Knife                   +1      +1     +2L    +1      5      Can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Knife)
+Knife                   +1      +1     +2L    +1      5      Can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]] for stats (under Knife)
 Khatar                  +3      +0     +3L    +1      3      Useable with Brawl
 Sai                     +2      +0     +1L    +3      4      Useable with MA; bonus to Disarm attempts (see CB:N, pg. 76)
@@ Line 52: / Line 52: @@
 Name                     Spd     Acc    Dam    Def    Rate    Other
 Club                     +4      +0     +5B    +0      3
-Mace/Shillelagh          +4      +1     +5B    -1      2      P
+Mace[[/Shillelagh]]          +4      +1     +5B    -1      2      P
-Hammer                   +3      +1     +7B    -2      2      P; can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Hammer)
+Hammer                   +3      +1     +7B    -2      2      P; can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]] for stats (under Hammer)
-Sledge/Tetsubo           +7      +2     +9B    -2      1      P
+Sledge[[/Tetsubo]]           +7      +2     +9B    -2      1      P
 -Handed Hammer          +6      +2     +11B   -3      1      P
@@ Line 65: / Line 65: @@
 POLEARMS
 Name                      Spd     Acc    Dam    Def    Rate    Other
-MA Spear                  +10     +2     +3L    +1      4      can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Spear)
+MA Spear                  +10     +2     +3L    +1      4      can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]] for stats (under Spear)
-Footman's Spear           +8      +1     +5L    +0      2      can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Spear)
+Footman's Spear           +8      +1     +5L    +0      2      can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]] for stats (under Spear)
-Naginata/Kwan Dao         +8      +1     +5L    +0      2
+Naginata[[/Kwan]] Dao         +8      +1     +5L    +0      2
-Poleaxe/Halberd           +8      +1     +6L    -2      1      P
+Poleaxe[[/Halberd]]           +8      +1     +6L    -2      1      P
-Trident/Tiger Fork        +8      +0     +5L    +1      2      Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai)
+Trident[[/Tiger]] Fork        +8      +0     +5L    +1      2      Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai)
 Lance (on foot)           +7      -1     +3L    -3      2
 Lance (charging)          +12     +2     +10L   -3      1
-Short Spear               +4      +1     +4L    +1      3      can be thrown; see ThrownWeapons for stats (under Short Spear)
+Short Spear               +4      +1     +4L    +1      3      can be thrown; see [[ThrownWeapons]] for stats (under Short Spear)
 </pre>
@@ Line 82: / Line 82: @@
 STAVES AND VARIATIONS
 Name                      Spd     Acc    Dam    Def    Rate    Other
-Quarterstaff/Bo           +9      +1     +8B    +1      2      Useable with MA
+Quarterstaff[[/Bo]]           +9      +1     +8B    +1      2      Useable with MA
 MA Staff                  +7      +2     +6B    +2      3      Useable with MA
-Short Staff/Jo            +5      +1     +4B    +2      3      Useable with MA
+Short Staff[[/Jo]]            +5      +1     +4B    +2      3      Useable with MA
 Fighting Sticks           +3      +1     +3B    +3      4      Useable with MA and Brawl
 Nunchaku                  +3      +1     +4B    +1      5      Useable with MA
@@ Line 101: / Line 101: @@
 Whip                      +10     +0     +0L    -3      2      Bonus to Disarm attempts (see Sai); stunts look cool
 Fighting Chain            +6      +1     +6B    -1      4      Useable with Brawl or MA; Clinch enhancer
-Fighting Shield           +1      +1     +3B    +3      2      Useable with Brawl; can be thrown, see ThrownWeapons (under Shield)
+Fighting Shield           +1      +1     +3B    +3      2      Useable with Brawl; can be thrown, see [[ThrownWeapons]] (under Shield)
 </pre>
@@ Line 110: / Line 110: @@
 While considering the rapier, and then the knife, I wondered whether these weapons (and perhaps others) should be less Strength-dependent.  In particular, I'm wondering if making their damage equal to (Str/2) + (Dam) would be too much.  Or even (Str+Dex)/2 + (Dam).  And by "too much" I mean "too much of a pain in the goddamn ass to keep track of."
-Alright, folks, that's DigSenMeleeWeapons finished.  If you notice anything wonky in a comparison between two weapons, let me know; I've tried to compare them all to a few 'base' weapons, but there's no way I got everything.  So, if something doesn't sync, I'll reexamine it.
+Alright, folks, that's [[DigSenMeleeWeapons]] finished.  If you notice anything wonky in a comparison between two weapons, let me know; I've tried to compare them all to a few 'base' weapons, but there's no way I got everything.  So, if something doesn't sync, I'll reexamine it.
 === Problems?  Concerns?  Hate what I've done? ===
-Take it to DigSenPowerCombatWeapons/ThisIsAllWrong
+Take it to [[DigSenPowerCombatWeapons/ThisIsAllWrong]]